Re:professional deprogramming?

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

You folks are a riot here....

It feels good to laugh at things that are truly funny to me.

, your post actually gave me goosebumps....when you

mentioned the body language and to look for those who were NOT

wearing a mask.....gave me a really eerie feeling when I

visualized my Mon. night group.

I have been thinking lately...(gee, that's a new one)

Most of the people in AA are stinkin' nuts, (for real) and I

am hanging out there because I am too afraid not to. For

Christs sake, how can I ever get my head screwed on right with

that goin' on???? Let's see, I will go nuts if I keep

hanging with the nuts and I will go nuts if I don't. UGH.

Have any of you gone through any type of " professional

de-programming " on some of these issues?

Thanks

Sue

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeeGroups

>Subject: Re: 12stfr seems really odd

>Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:27:21 -0800

>

>Jim, what you said!

>

>Sue, I left AA after 15 years of 3+ meetings a week. I even had the

>idea that if I did the Steps Exactly right, I would be perfect and get

>my halo....! " We are Not saints " ...but hell, you drink and either

>you're automatically dead or crazy. What a bunch of contradictory

>crap!

>

>I have been away for three years and the scales are falling from my

>eyes little by little. A lot of the brainwashing still plays on me,

>but I have a very good partner who helps to be the Voice of Reason when

>the cult mentality messes with me.

>

>AA uses guilt and shame to keep its members " coming back " . It puts a

>fear of leaving the fold into you. How many times have you been at a

>table and someone " confesses " how long its has been since they've been

>to a meeting...or that they....gulp...had a slip, God help them? I

>used to think to myself that this was a version of Catholic Confession

>or, for the agnostic or atheist-True Confessions!

>

>

>I have a daughter who recently turned 21. She got kicked out of

>treatment 3 years ago and continued with an occasional AA meeting. She

>admitted that AA was more of a social thing for her all along. She

>called me from NYC (she is a flight attendant and was on a layover)

>saying she had had a beer the other night. She was just full of guilt

>over it. I just told her it's up to her how she think about it, but

>strongly advised that she NOT go to AA and talk about it-that she

>should make her decision to drink-or not-HER Decision.

>

>A few years ago, I would not have reacted in this way. The Judgemental

>finger-pointing AA " Invasion of the Body Snatchers " accusation is gone.

> Replaced with a gentler, less-than-perfect, and definitely humane-and

>human thoughts and feelings. I am less strident in how I think about

>people in general-and in turn, about myself. I am happier and more

>gentle on myself-not beating myself with old " defects of character "

>anymore...and noticing that everybody has them-that's what makes us

>different from one another-oh duh...!

>

>I get new awarenesses all the time. Hang in there, Sue. You don't

>have to give it all up at once. Be gentle with yourself; listen and

>watch at the meetings-watch the body language-I find that INTRIGUING,

>to say the least! People lie at AA tables, too...and they are

>dysfunctional as all get-out! See if ANYONE is NOT wearing a mask. I

>got a real wake-up call when I was betrayed by several members. Watch

>them. I can tell you nobody is as they " seem " .

>

>Jim-did you get any mail yet?

>

>

>

> " jim hankins " wrote:

>original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10655

> > Sue, you asked about dealing with the fears that AA instills. If you

> > read the anticult sites you'll see a lot of cults put a " curse " on

> > those who leave. Basically, they know that anyone who leaves will

> > inevitably encounter routine difficulties in life, but they want you

>to

> > think that these little bumps in the road (or big bumps in the road)

> > are the result of leaving AA. They're not. The same things would

>happen

> > if you stayed. But they're hoping your mind will blow it all out of

> > proportion and make you think God is sending you a message to go back

> > to AA and humble yourself again.

> >

> > I've heard there are some primative tribes where a sorcerer can put a

> > " curse " on someone and the victim will just stop eating and die,

> > because they're so convinced that death is inevitable. It's just the

> > power of suggestion.

> >

> > Also, it won't be the end of the world if you go back for a few

> > meetings. You can get the benefit of the social contact and support

>but

> > at least now you know that the " program " part is mostly bullshit. The

> > seed has been planted, as they say.

> >

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>

>

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Sue, everybody,

I guess as far as deprogramming-as I said, I have a partner-my fiance,

Charlie, who supports me and helps explain things the past three years.

I think I am really lucky to have met him. He is a sensitive, caring

person and the difference between him and anyone in the program is that

he is genuine. Charlie had a very normal, loving childhood and is

teaching me many things that I have never been exposed to-like love,

for example. You know how they say at tables that they will love you

until you can love yourself? What happens when a person goes to those

people and says they had a slip? Right, that person is basically

ostracized, and the " love " is removed and replaced with distrust. That

is how a dysfunctional family works, too. I am learning how to

separate approval and love. I am trying to understand that if I make a

mistake, the love does not go away. It is the action that is not

appropriate, and it is forgiven and forgotten. It is not ME-not the

whole person I am, that IS the mistake. AA really twisted my thinking.

I know this is going to take time.

I am also in therapy. I got lucky there, too. My therapist has been

around AA for 20+ years but does not condone a lot of the teachings-the

guilt and the shame that get heaped up on the already emotionally

burdened alcoholic is very damaging to a person who has been abused.

And most of us have-so you get my point. I guess you could say that my

therapy is helping to de-program me.

I remember this past summer being at a wedding reception with a bunch

of people I was in AA with. I had not seen them in about 2+ years.

The experience left me shaken, to say the least. Having not been

around AA for that time, I had developed a way of percieving people

that caused me to notice the masks and defensive posture in every

person in AA that was at the gathering. I could pick them out by

watching them. One woman was acting as though she were afraid of being

in her own skin. One guy, I knew as being an IV drug user, all of

sudden has hepatitis from a TATTOO-yeah, right. Another woman, I

barely recognized, is now a stay-at-home mom and so in to herself

nobody is welcome to have a conversation with her-it's all about HER.

All the body language said-stay out-I'm scared...things like that.

On the way home from the reception, I realized I can't even be friends

with them-they automatically think that I am drinking anyway (it's like

it's almost a given) and it scares them-so much that they would not

even ask if I was or not. And it is unimaginable that I could live

without AA! So the walls are up. They had to have been there before-I

didn't notice. That's why I asked you to watch-and see what you see.

Don't be so hard on yourself, Sue. I thought I would go crazy too, or

be Cursed, like Jim said, when I first left. It was lonely for a

while, but I had gotten to the point that AA was threatening my LIFE.

Getting away from AA has given me valuable insights how the world

really is. I'm learning how to not be so hard on myself-especially on

" defects of character " and " making amends " . Jesus. Living with that

hanging over my head was real torture. My philosphy today is pretty

simple-Be kind and every day can be a " do over " .

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year-and welcome to freedom and a brand

new life!

Love,

" sue styd " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10676

>

> Hi All,

>

> You folks are a riot here....

>

> It feels good to laugh at things that are truly funny to me.

>

>

> , your post actually gave me goosebumps....when you

>

> mentioned the body language and to look for those who were NOT

>

> wearing a mask.....gave me a really eerie feeling when I

>

> visualized my Mon. night group.

>

>

> I have been thinking lately...(gee, that's a new one)

>

> Most of the people in AA are stinkin' nuts, (for real) and I

>

> am hanging out there because I am too afraid not to. For

>

> Christs sake, how can I ever get my head screwed on right with

>

> that goin' on???? Let's see, I will go nuts if I keep

>

> hanging with the nuts and I will go nuts if I don't. UGH.

>

> Have any of you gone through any type of " professional

>

> de-programming " on some of these issues?

>

> Thanks

>

> Sue

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> >Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

> >To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> >Subject: Re: 12stfr seems really odd

> >Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:27:21 -0800

> >

> >Jim, what you said!

> >

> >Sue, I left AA after 15 years of 3+ meetings a week. I even had the

> >idea that if I did the Steps Exactly right, I would be perfect and

get

> >my halo....! " We are Not saints " ...but hell, you drink and either

> >you're automatically dead or crazy. What a bunch of contradictory

> >crap!

> >

> >I have been away for three years and the scales are falling from my

> >eyes little by little. A lot of the brainwashing still plays on me,

> >but I have a very good partner who helps to be the Voice of Reason

when

> >the cult mentality messes with me.

> >

> >AA uses guilt and shame to keep its members " coming back " . It puts a

> >fear of leaving the fold into you. How many times have you been at a

> >table and someone " confesses " how long its has been since they've

been

> >to a meeting...or that they....gulp...had a slip, God help them? I

> >used to think to myself that this was a version of Catholic

Confession

> >or, for the agnostic or atheist-True Confessions!

> >

> >

> >I have a daughter who recently turned 21. She got kicked out of

> >treatment 3 years ago and continued with an occasional AA meeting.

She

> >admitted that AA was more of a social thing for her all along. She

> >called me from NYC (she is a flight attendant and was on a layover)

> >saying she had had a beer the other night. She was just full of

guilt

> >over it. I just told her it's up to her how she think about it, but

> >strongly advised that she NOT go to AA and talk about it-that she

> >should make her decision to drink-or not-HER Decision.

> >

> >A few years ago, I would not have reacted in this way. The

Judgemental

> >finger-pointing AA " Invasion of the Body Snatchers " accusation is

gone.

> > Replaced with a gentler, less-than-perfect, and definitely

humane-and

> >human thoughts and feelings. I am less strident in how I think about

> >people in general-and in turn, about myself. I am happier and more

> >gentle on myself-not beating myself with old " defects of character "

> >anymore...and noticing that everybody has them-that's what makes us

> >different from one another-oh duh...!

> >

> >I get new awarenesses all the time. Hang in there, Sue. You don't

> >have to give it all up at once. Be gentle with yourself; listen and

> >watch at the meetings-watch the body language-I find that INTRIGUING,

> >to say the least! People lie at AA tables, too...and they are

> >dysfunctional as all get-out! See if ANYONE is NOT wearing a mask.

I

> >got a real wake-up call when I was betrayed by several members.

Watch

> >them. I can tell you nobody is as they " seem " .

> >

> >Jim-did you get any mail yet?

> >

> >

> >

> > " jim hankins " wrote:

> >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10

655

> > > Sue, you asked about dealing with the fears that AA instills. If

you

> > > read the anticult sites you'll see a lot of cults put a " curse " on

> > > those who leave. Basically, they know that anyone who leaves will

> > > inevitably encounter routine difficulties in life, but they want

you

> >to

> > > think that these little bumps in the road (or big bumps in the

road)

> > > are the result of leaving AA. They're not. The same things would

> >happen

> > > if you stayed. But they're hoping your mind will blow it all out

of

> > > proportion and make you think God is sending you a message to go

back

> > > to AA and humble yourself again.

> > >

> > > I've heard there are some primative tribes where a sorcerer can

put a

> > > " curse " on someone and the victim will just stop eating and die,

> > > because they're so convinced that death is inevitable. It's just

the

> > > power of suggestion.

> > >

> > > Also, it won't be the end of the world if you go back for a few

> > > meetings. You can get the benefit of the social contact and

support

> >but

> > > at least now you know that the " program " part is mostly bullshit.

The

> > > seed has been planted, as they say.

> > >

> >

> >