Re: Do you ever feel like a borderline magnet?

[Guest guest]

It is sad; personality disorder seems to be the only condition in which the

basic human concept of " love, " the selflessness of true love, seems to be

absent.

My nada's comprehension of " love " seems more like what normal people think of

as... " attention " or maybe " control. " Or... a banking transaction: nada gives x

(a gift, attention, etc.) only with the expectation that x will be returned

*plus interest.* My nada behaves as though Sister and I are perpetually in debt

to her and owe her unpaid principal AND interest on her investment in raising

us.

I know for sure that my nada is not capable of understanding why anyone would

give just for the sake of giving or do something good for others anonymously;

nada must have her payoff.

I really was glad to read that the American Psychiatric Association has

concluded that bpd involves inherited bad brain wiring; that makes so much sense

to me in explaining why bpds can't seem to comprehend and learn (in some cases,

not all) that their behaviors repel the very attention they seek, and it also

explains why we here who were so badly abused and mistreated as children did not

develop bpd as a result: we simply got lucky and dodged that genetic bullet.

-Annie

>

> But don't you find that really sad? I just feel like they so WANT to be

> loved and cared for and yet they can't be. The very thing they're basically

> crying out for will never be there because of their own behaviors. You

> know?

>

>

>

>

> In a message dated 5/5/2009 4:22:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> kk1raven@... writes:

>

> Backing off sounds like the right thing for you. Unfortunately,

> I'm not convinced that BPD allows people to have real friends. I

> think the BPD behavior kicks in any time the relationship is

> more than superficial.

[Guest guest]

I have major fleas that sometimes make me question whether or not I am BP.

Sometimes I do or say something that nada would do/say and I'm often taken aback

by it. When I stop and think about what I've done/said, I know it is wrong and I

take steps to make sure I don't say/do it again. That is the big difference

between nada and I. I can recognize my behavior or words that are harmful to

others (and to myself) and I make a conscious effort to change my behavior so it

won't happen again. Nada, on the other hand, probably realizes what she

does/says is wrong or harmful but doesn't do anything to stop it or to change it

because it " works for her " . I'm pretty sure she doesn't see her behavior as I do

or she'd be mortified at my perception of her. Despite the fact that her

behavior is irrational, she would never want anyone to see her that way. At the

same time, based on her comments about the past, I think she is fully aware of

what she has done and the effects of her behavior. She has the ability to change

things now, but she chooses not to. It's like the rat pressing the button and

getting shocked each time. If they alos get a food pellet everytime they get

shocked, they'll continue to press the button. It makes no sense to us looking

in, but it makes sense to the rat.

Abby

> >

> > I met this woman online on a dissociative disorders message board. When

> > we started talking originally, she was in major crisis with her therapist.

> > Her therapist was not doing what she expected of her and she was going

> > through some pretty tough abandonment stuff. She told me she was BPD, but

I

> > don't think she realized the stigma attached to it. Based on what she told

me

> > about her therapist, it saddened me for her because it seems like no

> > matter how she felt or what she said, her therapist was putting her in the

BPD

> > " box " of misguided and over the top emotions. It seemed so frustrating for

> > her and I can see how that would be. Regardless of a diagnosis, the

> > borderline does feel real emotions. Don't they? I don't even know

anymore.

> >

> > I am not BPD, but I can spot one a mile away.

> >

> > I continued to email and IM with her and we talked on the phone a few

> > times. We were close in age and she seemed very sweet and I genuinely grew

to

> > care about her. We live a long way apart -- she's in Denver, I'm in

Atlanta.

> >

> > But after a month of our emails rehashing the same issue I got super weary

> > of it all. And a week or so ago, after she had forwarded me some emails

> > between her and her therapist, I could truly sense her therapist's

> > frustration and could see that there were two sides to this story. I

simply said to

> > her that maybe it would be a good idea to step back and see how much she

> > was really expecting of an outpatient therapist and perhaps she was not

> > seeing that her therapist was trying to help her and figure this all out.

> >

> > Well...that's all it took for me to become at the receiving end of the

> > wrath of a borderline. I went from white to black. She sent me a horrible

> > email back saying that the world would be better off without people like

me,

> > I was never her friend, accused me of siding with her therapist and not

> > her, everyone was against her, she had no reason to live anymore, and on and

> > on.

> >

> > I don't know why I was so surprised to get it, but she definitely got the

> > reaction from me she wanted...I was so upset that I shut my laptop down and

> > cried for an hour. My husband thought *I* was insane, but it is amazing how

> > much you can grow to care about someone you've never met face-to-face.

> >

> > So after a few days I sent an apology to her if what I said offended her

> > and tried to explain that I was not taking sides, but just trying to get

her

> > to see that her therapist was indeed trying to help her. I'm on the outside

> > looking in after all. I got another response full of insults and name

> > calling and her last line to me was " lose my number. "

> >

> > Okay, so I did. I let her have the last word and I just let it go. What

> > else could I do at that point? That email wasn't even worth me dignifying

> > it with a response.

> >

> > And yet even today, I am bothered by it because she still posts on the

> > forum yet completely ignores me.

> > I'm not like devastated or anything, but I hate it when someone is mad at

> > me. I really hate it. I don't know if I was in the wrong or she was

> > lashing out as a typical borderline.

> >

> > I don't even know why I'm writing this, but it helped to get it all out.

> > So if you got this far, thanks for listening. I hate to be this way, but

> > from now on I am going to have to completely remove myself from any

> > relationship where I suspect the person could be a borderline. It's just

too hard

> > for me right now and I'm not at a place in my own therapy where I can deal

> > with this effectively.

> >

> > I talked to my therapist about it and she seems to feel it is typical

> > borderline behavior, seeing things in black and white, and ruining

frienships.

> >

> > To be quite honest, I think being BPD would have to be complete hell. I

> > will take my dissociative disorder and PTSD over that ANY day of the week.

> > I guess I have stepped back to see that she can't really help it, but at

> > what point are they responsible for their actions and not always able to

> > blame it on the BPD? At some point, they have to realize that they are not

> > being fair or rational and that it is them and not always someone else.

????

> > Do they not see the destruction in their path?

> >

> >

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> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks Ashana. I'm 31. I've talked to my therapist about possibly

being BPD and she says I am not. But I guess what scares me most is

that with being raised by a woman with such awful defense mechanisms

that even if I'm not BPD that maybe I have some of the traits?

I'm probably not BPD but I still catch myself sometimes saying things

that sound an awful lot like nada. Then I shudder and vow to never

say something like that again.

Justi

>

>

> Justi,

>

> You said you were concerned you might still turn out like your nada.

>

> How old are you?  Bpd usually shows up in late adolescence or early

> adulthood.  There are often signs earlier (the single most important

> predictor of bpd in adulthood is bpd tratis in childhood), but I've never

> heard of it later.

>

> I'd say if you're older than 20, you have nothing to worry about.  It's not

> going to just show up if you have kids.

>

> Best,

> Ashana

>

> Now surf faster and smarter ! Check out the new Firefox 3 - Yahoo! Edition

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>

>

[Guest guest]

There is SOOOOO much information on Pubmed about the genetics and physiology of

the BPD " phenotype " . I just dont know if you guys can actually get the links

because I get them either through campus or by proxy. Some of the literature is

freely available and for others you have to pay. But...here are a couple of

papers that I found interesting.

We'll try a review from 2008 about the biology of PD's

http://www.mdconsult.com/das/article/body/135774342-2/jorg=journal & source= & sp=20\

850206 & sid=0/N/651781/1.html?issn=0193953X

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , Justi3 wrote:

>

> Annie, I didn't hear of that article on BPD. Do you have any further

> information on it? I'd like to read it.

>

> And I wouldn't be surpized if there were something chemical/genetic to

> it. It does explain how we all dodged a horrific bullet, but, I still

> find myself always questioning if it's me or her, even though I know

> now it is her! I always question what's 'normal'. It kinda drives

> me nuts. I just wish I could go one day with just one person & not

> question if I'm being normal or if what they're talking about is

> normal lol.

>

> Justi

>

>

> >

> >

> > It is sad; personality disorder seems to be the only condition in which the

> > basic human concept of " love, " the selflessness of true love, seems to be

> > absent.

> >

> > My nada's comprehension of " love " seems more like what normal people think

> > of as... " attention " or maybe " control. " Or... a banking transaction: nada

> > gives x (a gift, attention, etc.) only with the expectation that x will be

> > returned *plus interest.* My nada behaves as though Sister and I are

> > perpetually in debt to her and owe her unpaid principal AND interest on her

> > investment in raising us.

> >

> > I know for sure that my nada is not capable of understanding why anyone

> > would give just for the sake of giving or do something good for others

> > anonymously; nada must have her payoff.

> >

> > I really was glad to read that the American Psychiatric Association has

> > concluded that bpd involves inherited bad brain wiring; that makes so much

> > sense to me in explaining why bpds can't seem to comprehend and learn (in

> > some cases, not all) that their behaviors repel the very attention they

> > seek, and it also explains why we here who were so badly abused and

> > mistreated as children did not develop bpd as a result: we simply got lucky

> > and dodged that genetic bullet.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

> >

> >>

> >> But don't you find that really sad? I just feel like they so WANT to be

> >> loved and cared for and yet they can't be. The very thing they're

> >> basically

> >> crying out for will never be there because of their own behaviors. You

> >> know?

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> In a message dated 5/5/2009 4:22:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> >> kk1raven@ writes:

> >>

> >> Backing off sounds like the right thing for you. Unfortunately,

> >> I'm not convinced that BPD allows people to have real friends. I

> >> think the BPD behavior kicks in any time the relationship is

> >> more than superficial.

> >

> >

>