Probiotics

[Guest guest]

>>>> My son always has a problem with yeast, and he does well just

on 1 drop of Grapefruit seed extract a day. I was told by Dana and

our holistic dr. that probably needs more than 1 dose of

probiotic a day. Whenever I give more than one dose, he acts

spacey, stimmy and unfocused.

Could be die-off, could be the probiotic brand. What are you using?

Some do really well with just straight pure acidophilus when other

blends aren't working. Yeast can come and go amazingly quickly, so

one drop a day may be allowing it to hold its own. Are you giving No-

Fenol or Candex or Candidase with it? That would enhance the effect.

How about 1 drop in the morning and 1 at night? That might be a

compromise that lessens abrupt die-off but is more than what you are

giving now.

.

[Guest guest]

> ,

>

> Right now we are using Solaray non-dairy acidophilus with carrot

juice.

> We've tried Pro-Bio Gold with the same result - more spaciness when

more than one

> probiotic given a day. I prefer using just the acidophilus.

Carrots are still nasty for my son.

>

> So if I understand right, you suggest maybe try two drops of GSE,

one in the

> morning and one in the evening (with no-fenol), and still use the 1

probiotic

> a day? Or increase the probiotic, too?

This sounds good to me.

Dana

[Guest guest]

I am curious to know if the Ojibwa Tea has helped. I have considered

trying that with my daughter.

> Hello,

> My 5 y.o. daughter Crystal has been taking Ojibwa Tea of Life for a

month.

> Now I added their Perfect Stool Formula to the mix. (ugh! don't

like that

> name at all!) Just started yesterday and she seems to be having a

reaction

> from it already. Her OT wrote she's on edge today. She was up and

raring to

> go early this morn. (7:30, usually likes to sleep at least an hour

or more

> later than that) I am giving her a heaping 1/4 teaspoon 3x a day.

(as close

> to a 1/3 as I can get, the directions say 1/2 tsp. 3x a day) Is

there

> anything I can do to make it easier for her aside from backing off

the dose?

> I figured I'd just stick it out if she doesn't become too

unmanageable. I'm

> supplementing with 5-HTP, but it's apparently not helping. Also,

anyone else

> have this experience? About how long can I expect a die-off

reaction? I know

> everybody's different, just want to get a ball park estimate and

find out

> how other kids react to get an idea.

> Janet

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think it has helped with her attention and compliance. I haven't

seen the calming effect, but I think it's because she has other

issues besides needing detox. Namely, giving her digestive system a

boost which is why I added the PFS from Ojibwa. If that isn't enough,

I will start some enzymes.

Janet

> I am curious to know if the Ojibwa Tea has helped. I have

considered

> trying that with my daughter.

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, today was definitely not a good one. She proceeded to take her

clothes off in the timeout room (in there for not following

directions) and ultimately peed her pants for spite and attention.

Thank goodness only one more day to go this week. I hope this doesn't

keep up for long. Very frustrating. Ugh.

Janet

> Hello,

> My 5 y.o. daughter Crystal has been taking Ojibwa Tea of Life for a

month.

> Now I added their Perfect Stool Formula to the mix. (ugh! don't

like that

> name at all!) Just started yesterday and she seems to be having a

reaction

> from it already...I figured I'd just stick it out if she doesn't

become too unmanageable. About how long can I expect a die-off

reaction? >

Janet

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

We give the ojibwa tea, but then she calmed down a lot. It's strange

but she started getting up early in the morning too and was ready to

go. No -ve reactions though.

But, she just refuses the PSF so we are using Culturelle and Primal

defense for now.

bye,

jayashree

> > Hello,

> > My 5 y.o. daughter Crystal has been taking Ojibwa Tea of Life for

a

> month.

> > Now I added their Perfect Stool Formula to the mix. (ugh! don't

> like that

> > name at all!) Just started yesterday and she seems to be having a

> reaction

> > from it already. Her OT wrote she's on edge today. She was up and

> raring to

> > go early this morn. (7:30, usually likes to sleep at least an

hour

> or more

> > later than that) I am giving her a heaping 1/4 teaspoon 3x a day.

> (as close

> > to a 1/3 as I can get, the directions say 1/2 tsp. 3x a day) Is

> there

> > anything I can do to make it easier for her aside from backing

off

> the dose?

> > I figured I'd just stick it out if she doesn't become too

> unmanageable. I'm

> > supplementing with 5-HTP, but it's apparently not helping. Also,

> anyone else

> > have this experience? About how long can I expect a die-off

> reaction? I know

> > everybody's different, just want to get a ball park estimate and

> find out

> > how other kids react to get an idea.

> > Janet

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Was your daughter on enzymes/probiotics before you started? Mine

wasn't. My thought was that she wasn't getting the full benefit from

the tea because her digestive system needed some help.

Janet

> > > Hello,

> > > My 5 y.o. daughter Crystal has been taking Ojibwa Tea of Life

for

> a

> > month.

> > > Now I added their Perfect Stool Formula to the mix. (ugh! don't

> > like that

> > > name at all!) Just started yesterday and she seems to be having

a

> > reaction

> > > from it already. Her OT wrote she's on edge today. She was up

and

> > raring to

> > > go early this morn. (7:30, usually likes to sleep at least an

> hour

> > or more

> > > later than that) I am giving her a heaping 1/4 teaspoon 3x a

day.

> > (as close

> > > to a 1/3 as I can get, the directions say 1/2 tsp. 3x a day) Is

> > there

> > > anything I can do to make it easier for her aside from backing

> off

> > the dose?

> > > I figured I'd just stick it out if she doesn't become too

> > unmanageable. I'm

> > > supplementing with 5-HTP, but it's apparently not helping.

Also,

> > anyone else

> > > have this experience? About how long can I expect a die-off

> > reaction? I know

> > > everybody's different, just want to get a ball park estimate

and

> > find out

> > > how other kids react to get an idea.

> > > Janet

> > >

[Guest guest]

For us the Ojibwa tea helped immensely, and due to its' gentleness, I was

actually considering at one point, eliminating the Valtrex and going back to the

tea. However, due to the information I've come across, I've decided to give the

Valtrex a few more months. The tea is excellent though, and not only do my

husband and I drink it, but my grandmother, mom, several aunts,and several

friends and their children drink it.

Re: Probiotics

I am curious to know if the Ojibwa Tea has helped. I have considered

trying that with my daughter.

> Hello,

> My 5 y.o. daughter Crystal has been taking Ojibwa Tea of Life for a

month.

> Now I added their Perfect Stool Formula to the mix. (ugh! don't

like that

> name at all!) Just started yesterday and she seems to be having a

reaction

> from it already. Her OT wrote she's on edge today. She was up and

raring to

> go early this morn. (7:30, usually likes to sleep at least an hour

or more

> later than that) I am giving her a heaping 1/4 teaspoon 3x a day.

(as close

> to a 1/3 as I can get, the directions say 1/2 tsp. 3x a day) Is

there

> anything I can do to make it easier for her aside from backing off

the dose?

> I figured I'd just stick it out if she doesn't become too

unmanageable. I'm

> supplementing with 5-HTP, but it's apparently not helping. Also,

anyone else

> have this experience? About how long can I expect a die-off

reaction? I know

> everybody's different, just want to get a ball park estimate and

find out

> how other kids react to get an idea.

> Janet

>

>

[Guest guest]

> >It is cheapest at >www.vitacost.com about

> >$16.50 per 30, and www.vrp.com >has it on sale every 4 months >

(buy 3 boxes get one free).

>

> How does the live culture survive shipping?

Culturelle does not require refrigeration all the time as other

probiotics do. It is used a lot for traveler's diarrhea for that

reason. The capsules have special individual wrapping. Once you get

it, you can refrigerate it anyway to help preserve it more. but I

think the package says it can stay out 2 weeks and be viable for up

to 6 months without refridgeration.

.

[Guest guest]

When I order from Kirkman, they ship it overnight on ice.

Re: probiotics

> > >It is cheapest at >www.vitacost.com about

> > >$16.50 per 30, and www.vrp.com >has it on sale every 4 months >

> (buy 3 boxes get one free).

> >

> > How does the live culture survive shipping?

>

>

> Culturelle does not require refrigeration all the time as other

> probiotics do. It is used a lot for traveler's diarrhea for that

> reason. The capsules have special individual wrapping. Once you get

> it, you can refrigerate it anyway to help preserve it more. but I

> think the package says it can stay out 2 weeks and be viable for up

> to 6 months without refridgeration.

>

> .

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Dana,

>

> If your son does not tolerate Probiotics, what do you do to promote a healthy

> intestinal tract?

Chelation.

> How do you do it?

Okay that was the simple answer, and actually it was the final solution, but I

used GSE when my son had a yeast problem, and

Culturelle when he had a bacteria problem. This worked for us.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Possibly giving digestive enzymes away from the probiotics.

Jill

wrote:

>

> Hi-

>

> I just received the results from my son's latest Comprehensive

> Parasitology. This was the first time that I left him on his

> probiotics

> before and during the stool collection in order to see if they were

> actually doing anything. The results showed NO Lactobacillus species

> at

> all. It showed 4+ for E. Coli (which I guess is good) and only 1+ for

>

> Bifidobacterium.

>

> The test showed no pathogens--no yeasts or bacteria that were a

> problem.

>

> He has been receiving 2 Culturelle a day for over a year and 2-4

> Primal

> Defense a day for probably 6 months.

>

> My question is, what am I doing wrong? My son is getting really good

>

> probiotics and still the test shows that the good flora is not

> present.

>

> I usually give the probiotics after my son's breakfast and supper,

> along

> with his other supplements.

>

> Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

>

> thanks-

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

My son had the exact same results and I did not give the enzymes anywhere

near the probiotics.These results mean something........I think the

probiotics are feeding the yeast and that it is burrowed deep into the

intestinal track.

R

[Guest guest]

I don't give my son digestive enzymes at all. Any other suggestions?

> Message: 2

> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 16:25:17 -0800

> From: jmg <jajgelm@...>

> Subject: Re: probiotics

>

> Possibly giving digestive enzymes away from the probiotics.

> Jill

>

> wrote:

>

>>

>> Hi-

>>

>> I just received the results from my son's latest Comprehensive

>> Parasitology. This was the first time that I left him on his

>> probiotics

>> before and during the stool collection in order to see if they were

>> actually doing anything. The results showed NO Lactobacillus species

>> at

>> all. It showed 4+ for E. Coli (which I guess is good) and only 1+ for

>>

>> Bifidobacterium.

>>

>> The test showed no pathogens--no yeasts or bacteria that were a

>> problem.

>>

>> He has been receiving 2 Culturelle a day for over a year and 2-4

>> Primal

>> Defense a day for probably 6 months.

>>

>> My question is, what am I doing wrong? My son is getting really good

>>

>> probiotics and still the test shows that the good flora is not

>> present.

>>

>> I usually give the probiotics after my son's breakfast and supper,

>> along

>> with his other supplements.

>>

>> Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

>>

>> thanks-

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

I found Culturelle to be totally ineffective for my child as well. I

had good luck with Nutrition Now's PB8, and am now using Ther Biotic

Complete by Klaire Labs. Our DAN doc also told us the Kirkman's Pro

Bio Gold has not been helpful to any of the kids she's used it with.

You will probably just have to try a variety of products to find the

one that works for you.

Cally

> >

> >>

> >> Hi-

> >>

> >> I just received the results from my son's latest Comprehensive

> >> Parasitology. This was the first time that I left him on his

> >> probiotics

> >> before and during the stool collection in order to see if they

were

> >> actually doing anything. The results showed NO Lactobacillus

species

> >> at

> >> all. It showed 4+ for E. Coli (which I guess is good) and only

1+ for

> >>

> >> Bifidobacterium.

> >>

> >> The test showed no pathogens--no yeasts or bacteria that were a

> >> problem.

> >>

> >> He has been receiving 2 Culturelle a day for over a year and 2-4

> >> Primal

> >> Defense a day for probably 6 months.

> >>

> >> My question is, what am I doing wrong? My son is getting

really good

> >>

> >> probiotics and still the test shows that the good flora is not

> >> present.

> >>

> >> I usually give the probiotics after my son's breakfast and

supper,

> >> along

> >> with his other supplements.

> >>

> >> Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

> >>

> >> thanks-

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

If you give probiotics with food, it might be why they are not working well.

Try giving them at bedtime and perhaps between meals or early a.m. Anytime

there is going to be at least a few hours before eating. It is my

understanding these are best taken on an empty stomach, hence the bedtime dose

probably

being the best.

HTH,

Jana M. <><

[Guest guest]

I am not sure what the answer is. I just know that our son's doctor

recommended giving the probiotics on an empty stomach so as not to interfere

with

digestion. I think that was his reasoning. I don't have anything to back up

this

line of thought. I understand your difficulty, as we are doing so many

different things it is hard to know when and how to give all the vitamins,

probiotics, and other substances for the best affect.

Jana M. <><

[Guest guest]

Cally,

At what dose for probiotics? Jack's clostridia problem continues

and he just is not back to normal as far as doing his puzzles but

have seen some good improvement in some areas based upon your

suggestions in the past. What dose ALA/DMSA do you do for your

daughter. I started biocidin and it seems good. The big problem is

if he gets any sugar at all he is a mess. also took a break from

chelation and I am starting another round. I may go back down to

25mg ALA for my 5olb boy.

Thanks,

nne

> > >

> > >>

> > >> Hi-

> > >>

> > >> I just received the results from my son's latest

Comprehensive

> > >> Parasitology. This was the first time that I left him on his

> > >> probiotics

> > >> before and during the stool collection in order to see if

they

> were

> > >> actually doing anything. The results showed NO Lactobacillus

> species

> > >> at

> > >> all. It showed 4+ for E. Coli (which I guess is good) and

only

> 1+ for

> > >>

> > >> Bifidobacterium.

> > >>

> > >> The test showed no pathogens--no yeasts or bacteria that

were a

> > >> problem.

> > >>

> > >> He has been receiving 2 Culturelle a day for over a year and

2-4

> > >> Primal

> > >> Defense a day for probably 6 months.

> > >>

> > >> My question is, what am I doing wrong? My son is getting

> really good

> > >>

> > >> probiotics and still the test shows that the good flora is not

> > >> present.

> > >>

> > >> I usually give the probiotics after my son's breakfast and

> supper,

> > >> along

> > >> with his other supplements.

> > >>

> > >> Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

> > >>

> > >> thanks-

> > >>

> > >>

[Guest guest]

I am in the midst of trying to properly administer probiotics, nystatin, natural

yeast fighters, and enzymes. Finding this all to be a bit confusing. The

Kirkman bottle states for best results to take probiotics along WITH food.

However as someone else mentioned, many are hearing/finding probiotics are not

" fixing " the problem. Was wondering short of running another test, how could

one determine if they are/or aren't working???

Kari

Re: [ ] Re: probiotics

If you give probiotics with food, it might be why they are not working well.

Try giving them at bedtime and perhaps between meals or early a.m. Anytime

there is going to be at least a few hours before eating. It is my

understanding these are best taken on an empty stomach, hence the bedtime dose

probably

being the best.

HTH,

Jana M. <><

[Guest guest]

This has been a topic of discussion on the enzyme board several

times.....

In general, there doesn't seem to be any overwelming results by parents.

Some can give probiotics with enzymes before eating, some at bed, some

in am, some after food, etc.

Dr. Devin Houston (who develops Houston enzymes) posted an interesting

opinion (Post # 51078) on enzymes recently. In short, after his

research, he would give them directly after the meal to get as much to

the intestine as possible. If you don't subscribe, you could e-mail me

privately.

In our case, we recently had a stool test done. All 3 of our good

bacteria came back +3 or +4. I have given them at all times, mostly at

bed tho. If you give large quantities, its pretty hard to give that much

just at bed, you would want to spread it out during the day. We give

Culturelle and Primal Defense at the moment.

When we give probiotics, we know they are working when we see increased

urine. Yeast cells are broken, and create excess fluids. It also

improves the stool. I found it was important to give more than one brand

of probiotic at a time, and rotate them on occasion. I was just basing

this on yeast behavior, and stool formation. From our test, it seems to

have been successful.

From our experience at the largest doses - we give enzymes before meal

(we often add yeast killers at this time as well), probiotics at bed -

and just recently after the meal if we need to fit more doses in.

If yeast is really bad - I give a high dose of yeast killer at bed, and

give the probiotics first thing in the morning.

Re: [ ] Re: probiotics

I am in the midst of trying to properly administer probiotics, nystatin,

natural yeast fighters, and enzymes. Finding this all to be a bit

confusing. The Kirkman bottle states for best results to take

probiotics along WITH food. However as someone else mentioned, many are

hearing/finding probiotics are not " fixing " the problem. Was wondering

short of running another test, how could one determine if they are/or

aren't working??? Kari

Re: [ ] Re: probiotics

If you give probiotics with food, it might be why they are not working

well.

Try giving them at bedtime and perhaps between meals or early a.m.

Anytime

there is going to be at least a few hours before eating. It is my

understanding these are best taken on an empty stomach, hence the

bedtime dose probably

being the best.

HTH,

Jana M. <><

[Guest guest]

I have read that if you ingest more than the body needs that the

yeast and bacteria it was designed to get rid of actually has a nice

little feast on the left overs. Otherwise I have not read, nor

heard of an " overdose " on probiotics.

Dena

[Guest guest]

This rings true for us! The more probio's I was giving the worse the

yeast problem was getting. By stopping probio's and giving them very

infrequently, things improved (along with starting lauricidin, and

then eventually we switched to using maimonides colostrum). I give a

probio now maybe two times a month. The " red ring " around the anal

opening is much improved as a result of doing things differently.

He used to take them daily with no problem, but it did seem like

there was a point when the daily use was causing the problem, and

when I was giving him the probio morning, noon, and night--that's

when it was very bad.

I also wondered if part of it was our probio was not enteric coated

to survive the stomach acids, and perhaps there was a lot of dead

cultures that were a " feast " for the yeast/bacteria. THe probio I

use now is an enteric coated one (enzymatic therapy acidophilus

pearls).

W

> I have read that if you ingest more than the body needs that the

> yeast and bacteria it was designed to get rid of actually has a

nice

> little feast on the left overs. Otherwise I have not read, nor

> heard of an " overdose " on probiotics.

>

> Dena

[Guest guest]

You can look over The Probiotic Short Course:

http://www.enzymestuff.com/probiotics.htm

There are many good probiotic products on the market. Which you want

to go with will depend on your individual situation. Culturelle is

considered great for colon bacteria like Clostridia. We used it with

good success for that. Then there are mixed strains for those that

like a variety just for good measure. Some people find best results

by rotating and some stick with one that works best for them.

I use Florajen from my local pharmacist at times too. Don't forget

good ol' yogurt...a natural whole-food source of probiotics, if you

can have that. A whole-food source may provide other goodies that

support probiotic life than a supplement can. But supplements allow

you to...well, supplement probiotics if you can't get that much

yogurt down the person.

Primal Defense from Garden of Life is one to consider. It has the

effect of either people loving the product, or never tolerating it.

Not much in-between. There are number of them at the health food

stores too.

Probiotics are one of those good things you can (and probably should)

take every day. It is like maintaining a lawn. You need to put a

little effort into the lawn or else weeds will overrun it if you

don't do anything.

.

[Guest guest]

Probiotic Products that are sealed from light and kept cold usually have a

better potency, but then that's only for certain strains. Depends on the

type of probiotic you're looking for ( what are you trying to do?). For us

we use Perfect Stool Formula ( Daily, for gut healing in terms of

repopulating and feeding the good guys to starve out the bad guys), and we

introduced Culturelle when we realized my son had a definite bacteria issue,

also seemed to help with GSE rotation. They are good products for their

intent, but they may not be what you need. And, some kids don't tolerate

certain formulations. The Culturelle has been daily, but I imagine won't be

necessary when we determine what type of bacteria issue he has and treat it

more aggressively.

probiotics

> Hello everyone,

> I am thinking of starting probiotics for my son Can some pls guide me

> on what to lookfor when selecting a probiotic?Another thing for which

> i would like to get an answer is Can /should probiotics be used daily

> and like antifungals[especialy naturalones]should i rotate probiotics

> or should i stick to which ever i fine my son would tollerate Any info

> would be appriciated

> Thanks CLK

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Debbie,

Fructooligosaccharides (FOS) can be a problem and dextrose is just a

fancy way of saying SUGAR! No wonder your daughter loves it! That

" strawberry flavor " could also cause a problem for some kids.

On Friday, June 18, 2004, at 05:24 AM, Debbie Waltman wrote:

> Hi,

>

> Is there anything special I should know about choosing a probiotic for

> my

> daughter?  I found one she actually loves to take.  It is a powder

> that is

> much like a pixie stick.  It can be sprinkled on the tongue.  She

> loves the

> taste and begs for me when she is done.  We have a fight about her not

> having more and I have to hide them from her or she will eat them all

> at

> once!  Not good! 

>

> I know they are doing something positive.  She has always held bms or

> had

> constipation.  Yesterday........well, lets just say...she did not have

> a

> problem with it!  No diarrhea though.  Yippee!!

>

> Anyway, here is the breakdown of all ingredients.  Someone please tell

> me

> this is ok! 

>

>

>

> Lactobacillus acidophilus    1 billion

> Bifidobacterium bifidum        1 billion

> Fructooligosaccharides          500mg

>

> Other ingredients:  Dextrose, maltodextrin, inulin, natural strawberry

> flavor, silicon dioxide

>

> Calories                        10

> Total Carbohydrate     2.5g

> sugars                          1.5g

>

>

> Thanks and God Bless!

>

> Debbie W.

>

>