Re: Hemochromatosis or Anemic?

[Guest guest]

I would say you need iron.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

Iron Binding cap TIBC 272 (250-450)

UBIC 126 *L (150-375)

Iron Serum 146 (35-155)

Iron Saturation 54 (15-55)

Ferritin 40 (10-291)

Hemoglobin 12.6 (11.5-15.0)

Hematocrit 36.2 (34.0-44.0)

MCV 91 (80-98)

I disagree she should nto take iron. I thnk she should. but then I am

not overly educated about iron overload. BUT I se ntohign her eover

range. which would indicate high iron.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

Hi Val,

I know the ferritin is low but they say that the Iron Saturation should not be

high. A high iron saturation and low UBIC is supposed to be be hemochromatosis.

Val, do you have hemochromatosis? I do feel better when I take iron but now I am

scared.

Thanks,

>

> Iron Binding cap TIBC 272 (250-450)

> UBIC 126 *L (150-375)

> Iron Serum 146 (35-155)

> Iron Saturation 54 (15-55)

> Ferritin 40 (10-291)

> Hemoglobin 12.6 (11.5-15.0)

> Hematocrit 36.2 (34.0-44.0)

> MCV 91 (80-98)

>

> I disagree she should nto take iron. I thnk she should. but then I am

> not overly educated about iron overload. BUT I se ntohign her eover

> range. which would indicate high iron.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

>

[Guest guest]

> > > Ferritin 40 (10-291)

> > > Hemoglobin 12.6 (11.5-15.0)

> > > Hematocrit 36.2 (34.0-44.0)

http://www.thewayup.com/newsletters/081504.htm

Total body iron averages 3800mg in men and 2300mg in women. Iron is stored

primarily as ferritin, but some is stored as hemosiderin. Iron is transported in

the blood by the protein, transferrin. Ferritin is an active soluble storage

fraction found in the serum, liver, bone marrow, spleen, and red blood cells.

Hemosiderin is relatively insoluble and in stored primarily in the liver and

bone marrow.

..Serum ferritin is a test for total body iron storage and is my favorite and the

best test to measure iron status. Low serum ferritin ALWAYS identifies iron

deficiency.

[Guest guest]

Well I always recommend ANYONE that is taking iron should get retested

after a while on it. 2-3 months at most.Ferritin labs are cheap. I do

nto thnk oding any supplementing on ANY product tht can go too high is

good to do without checking levels every now & then.

I asmit I do nto knwo tons abotu iron, I have asked people to do

ressearcjh ion it and post to the groups any TRUE studies and GOOD

sources of info but Ihave nto seen this forthcoming. Iron is anothe

complex issue and one I do nto have the incluinatin to look inot as I

ahve too many of my own ssues I an constantly researching. what I do

know about it is that LOW ferritin causes extreme issues with ability to

take thyroi dand optimize it and it also causes tons of RT3 when it is

too low. From what I have seen from looking at people's labs, under 50

with Ferritin is just about guaranteed to cause these issues.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

I truly appreciatiate all you sincere comments. It is always beneficial to hear

all sides, especially if someone has experience with the topic. Thank you

Birrdyy, Dorothy and Val. I am going to get tested for the gene and take the

iron panel over. I spoke with a woman on Mercola.com and she had the same

situation. She retested and the values were normal. I was taking iron 3 weeks up

to the test, with vit C. Perhaps the iron the might before elevated some of the

results. ?? Any other comments would be helpful considering I am struggling with

RT3 b/c of the low Ferritin. I am so very grateful to all of you.

Grateful,

> > >

> > > Iron Binding cap TIBC 272 (250-450)

> > > UBIC 126 *L (150-375)

> > > Iron Serum 146 (35-155)

> > > Iron Saturation 54 (15-55)

> > > Ferritin 40 (10-291)

> > > Hemoglobin 12.6 (11.5-15.0)

> > > Hematocrit 36.2 (34.0-44.0)

> > > MCV 91 (80-98)

> > >

> > > I disagree she should nto take iron. I thnk she should. but then I am

> > > not overly educated about iron overload. BUT I se ntohign her eover

> > > range. which would indicate high iron.

> > >

> > > --

> > > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

> > >

> > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> > >

> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> > > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I think some of this is getting pretty silly. Just because somebody's

grandmother didn't know enough to test ferritin while taking iron doesn't mean

will do the same. Iron is an essential element. We can't live without

it. Sure it occasionally goes wrong but that shouldn't scare people away from

it.

From what I have read, ferritin is the final judge. Phelebotomies stop in

hematochromatosis when ferritin reaches 40. Ferritin is the indicator not CBC

levels. Hypothyroid people may have less blood volume and fewer RBC's (because

of low body temp, according to Dr ). These things could throw off meaning

of CBC.

We know from bitter, long experience that we can't utilize thyroid with

inadequate iron store, so what it the point of scaring people about getting

their reserves up to healthy levels. Everybody here should know enough to check

ferritin regularly if taking supps.

Dorothy

[Guest guest]

> I think some of this is getting pretty silly.

I should probably qualify what I said. I know everybody wants to help and wants

everyone to get well. I sort of like to concentrate on positives rather than

creating fear about self treatment and lack of self confidence.

Well that probably didn't help, but I tried.

Dorothy

[Guest guest]

Actually, I didn't think it was silly at all.  I wasn't suggesting that she wouldn't test while taking iron but since her grandfather had Hema and her iron was at the top of the range she needed to be careful.  I would say, if she has hema she shouldn't be taking iron.  I think we are all aware that the CBC isn't the indicator as I mentioned, because that's what they did to my mom which obviously is not the correct thing to do.  I certainly wasn't trying to scare her only to suggest that if she has this serious hereditary condition she needs to be extra careful. I started the conversation with saying that the problem with this delima is that we need those higher levels of ferritan.  Not sure what was so silly about that.

I think some of this is getting pretty silly. Just because somebody's grandmother didn't know enough to test ferritin while taking iron doesn't mean will do the same. Iron is an essential element. We can't live without it. Sure it occasionally goes wrong but that shouldn't scare people away from it.

From what I have read, ferritin is the final judge. Phelebotomies stop in hematochromatosis when ferritin reaches 40. Ferritin is the indicator not CBC levels. Hypothyroid people may have less blood volume and fewer RBC's (because of low body temp, according to Dr ). These things could throw off meaning of CBC.

We know from bitter, long experience that we can't utilize thyroid with inadequate iron store, so what it the point of scaring people about getting their reserves up to healthy levels. Everybody here should know enough to check ferritin regularly if taking supps.

Dorothy

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I understand....and I wouldn't have even mentioned anything but since her grandfather had this and her iron was at the top of the range...that's why.  Had she never mentioned Hema I wouldn't have said a thing.

> I think some of this is getting pretty silly.

I should probably qualify what I said. I know everybody wants to help and wants everyone to get well. I sort of like to concentrate on positives rather than creating fear about self treatment and lack of self confidence.

Well that probably didn't help, but I tried.

Dorothy

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I do have Hemochromatosis so perhaps I can pffer some thoughts?

Firstly I think it is a good idea to get the gene testing done.

however be aware thata positive test only rules HH IN it doesnt rule it OUT!

By that I mean they only test for 2-3 possible Gene mutations while there are 40

and counting known mutations known to affect Iron loading.

With regard to your results I want to clarify some things.

did you follow correct testing protocol?

First you mentioned you were on Iron & Vit C supps for 3 weeks before testing?

Did you STOP all Iron supping at least 3 days before testing? It is also

recommeneded to abstain from Iron rich foods for the same period.

Second what time did you test & were you fasting? Testing is more accurate if

tested early am & fasting. Iron in particular is volatile although Ferritin not

as much. I believe the Saturation may also be affected too.

So if you didnt test as above possibly your results are not accurate & should be

redone.

My understanding is if you had Iron up to day of testing, or ate beforehand,

tested later in the day, etc the Saturation & Iron levels would be artificially

inflated. By how much I could not say.

Certainly your saturation is saying at time of test that your body had little

capacity to take up more Iron in a safe manner (bound to Ferritin).

I would not take any more Iron until you look into this a little more. Still

take your Vit C & eat red meat etc as normal. Perhaps avoid very high Iron foods

(like offal meats) as well.

Retest Full Iron Panel & CBC the right way (if wasnt before).

In fact even if WAS done the right way still retest. Get the Gene test as it

woud be good to know if you do have one or two gene mutations (at least of the

ones you can test for).

Another pont. Most literature & Docs will say that having only one gene means

you will not ever get HH & you are only a carrier. Truth is even with one you

will load Iron just not as fast as someone with two. Certainly faster than

someone without any!!! With one gene you might have Ferritin in the hundreds

rather than thousands for example.

Iron overload is not just a matter of how high your Iron & Ferritin is. If you

have low Transferrin (for whatever reason) then you will have a lowered

capability to " store " Iron safely as Ferritin. Its the " free " Iron in excess of

the bodies needs that causes the problems by depositing all over the body (and

it can deposit anywhere & cause myriad problems).

You were offered some good advice to post on FHHF Yahoo Group.

After retesting I would do that giving them all results. They like to see Liver

tests, CBC, Sex Hormones too. A history would help too. Hypothyroid is VERY

common amongst HH sufferers as is Pituitary, Adrenal, Gonadal, Liver, Fibro,

etc.

Dont panis take it one step at a time. If you DO have Iron loading its not the

end of the world either. Easy to fix with phlebing & paus off with reduced

symptoms too. If caught in early stages avoids a lot of damage too. All good

things...OK?

Lethal Lee

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> I have asked people to do

> ressearcjh ion it and post to the groups any TRUE studies and GOOD

> sources of info but Ihave nto seen this forthcoming.

Val,

I have sent you links, and also posted several to the whole list. I

guess you have forgotten or something.

There are tons of good and true studies to be found online. Many if

not most HH sites deal with anemia as well iron overload as approx 25 %

of people with HH and iron overload are anemic at the same time they

have dangerous levels of iron loading in body tissues/organs. So most

good info incl studies are to be found at iron overload and HH sites.

Also a lot of studies probably at PubMed.

Testing ferritin alone is NOT adequate to determine iron overload or

anemia, this is stated over and over many places and in many iron

articles/studies.

sol

[Guest guest]

Yes Sol I KNOW tht BUT FERRITIN is what is needed to utilize thyroid

hormones. If ti si low the thyroi is nto utilized correctly. Simple

fact. Snd though oyu have told me you have heard fo folks wht lwo

ferritin that idd fine on thyroid I havenot seen this. So what am I to

thnk? SOmeone is wrong. O rmaybethe low ferritin in hypothyroid peopel

ALWAYS needs iron. Between the adrneals and this list about 70% of the

folks on either forum hav had ferritin issues. is it imagination or a

pattern?

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

wrote:

> Yes Sol I KNOW tht BUT FERRITIN is what is needed to utilize thyroid

> hormones............. O rmaybethe low ferritin in hypothyroid peopel

> ALWAYS needs iron. Between the adrneals and this list about 70% of the

> folks on either forum hav had ferritin issues. is it imagination or a

> pattern?

>

Or other factors are not being looked at? That would be my guess, and is

in fact, my considered opinion.

sol

[Guest guest]

Between the adrneals and this list about 70% of the

> folks on either forum hav had ferritin issues. is it imagination or a

> pattern?

It's a pattern. What I find in reading about it is that T3 is what gets iron

into the cells. Too much T3 and you get too much iron. Too little T3 and you are

anemic.

Dorothy

[Guest guest]

For correct iron and ferritan but probably more iron you need to be off 3-5 days before.  This may be your problem too.  As Lethal Lee mentioned, you might want to retest before making any decisions.

Lethal Lee wrote;

> With regard to your results I want to clarify some things.

> did you follow correct testing protocol?

: Yes, I was fasting and the bloods were taken around 11:00am

Lethal Lee:

> First you mentioned you were on Iron & Vit C supps for 3 weeks before testing? Did you STOP all Iron supping at least 3 days before testing?

: I didn't mention it to the Doctor/lab that I was taking Iron. I was on ferrasorb (iron supplement) and Vitamin C for 3 weeks before, up to the day before about 4pm, I took my last iron/vit. C before the blood test.

Thank you,

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

>Unless one can have

>TSH of 2.7 to 3.9 and NOT be hypoT? Is that possible?

At the end of the day it's where the FT3 is sat that best reflects

reflects whether you feel hypo.

It may be among the " symptomless population " that there are people

with a TSH in that area that feel well. It's just that once people get

symptoms that they need their TSH reduced lower before the treatement

will bring the FT3 up to the top of the range and them feel well

again.

Nick

[Guest guest]

Hi Dorothy

Which test indicates how much iron is entering the cells?Is it CBC or ferritin?

thanks

cindi

Re: Hemochromatosis or Anemic?

Between the adrneals and this list about 70% of the > folks on either forum hav had ferritin issues. is it imagination or a > pattern?It's a

[Guest guest]

HI

Thanks for your kind words much appreciated.

Some info from FHHF Yahoo Group (files).

Note this comment...... " Do not base your iron levels on a hemoglobin level. It

is possible to be anemic, with a low hemoglobin level, and still have iron

overload. "

Note the number of symptoms/conditions that Iron loading can cause/aggravate.

And that includes HypoT, CFS, FMS, Diabetes, depression, Sex Hormone problems

(including early menopause).

Note also... " Many patients report being told that their levels are " normal, "

when indeed they are not. A result of ferritin >150 & /or TS >45% is suspicious

for HH and requires further evaluation. "

As far as MCV goes low MCV may indicate Iron Anemia & high MCV may indicate

Floate/B12 deficiency. So I dont think that is reliable indicator of Iron

loading.

>>>>> I was on ferrasorb (iron supplement) and Vitamin C for 3 weeks before, up

to the day before about 4pm, I took my last iron/vit. C before the blood

test<<<<<

As you had Iron/Vit C leading up to & day of test retesting 8am fasting after

3-5 days off Iron supps certainly would be a good idea.

A CBC and ESR at same time plus CRP would help eliminate inflammation or

infection influences on Ferritin levels.

==========================================================

Friends,

You are being given this letter because someone cares about you & wants you to

know about a disease that could kill you. Hereditary Hemochromatosis [HH] is a

genetic condition of iron overload, which if left undiagnosed & /or untreated,

can be fatal. On the other hand, with an early diagnosis & proper treatment, you

can live a normal lifespan. It is very important to be screened for this

condition, if you have any of the symptoms/conditions associated with HH, OR if

you have a family member already diagnosed with HH, OR if you are a descendent

of any of the most commonly affected lines, such as those with ancestors from

Ireland, Scotland, Britain, or England.

Although years ago, it was known only as a " middle aged male disease, " we now

know that HH can affect children & women too. It most usually presents with

vague symptoms many years before it is diagnosed. Sadly enough, even though it

is now known to be one of the most common genetic conditions in the U.S., it

sometimes is still not diagnosed until autopsy. Statistics show that the

prevalence of HH, in the U.S., is about 1:8 for carrier status and 1:200-300 for

actually having full-blown HH. In countries, such as Ireland, the risks are even

greater, at 1:4 and 1:100.

Symptoms and/or problems, which may be associated with HH, are:

• Chronic Fatigue/Fibromyalgia/weakness [Most patients diagnosed with CFS or FM,

have never had their iron levels checked, yet this is one of the most common

symptoms associated with HH.]

• Diabetes [it is estimated that 10% of all diabetics have iron storage in the

pancreas, causing the diabetes. Often, once a diabetic HH patient is deironed,

the diabetes is easier to manage.]

• Cardiac problems, such as arrhythmias, cardiomegaly, heart failure, family

history of heart attacks.

• Arthritis/tender, swollen joints – Many HH patients complain of joint pain,

especially of the knuckles, knees & hips. These patients are often diagnosed

with rheumatoid arthritis & many have replacement surgery without ever having

been tested for excess iron.

• Impotence, decreased libido, infertility, amenorrhea, and/or early menopause -

One of the most unrecognized causes for these problems, is excess iron.

• Cirrhosis/Cancer of the Liver and/or pancreas - Iron can cause cirrhosis of

the liver & many HH patients are often accused of alcoholism, even if they have

never drank.

• Hypothyroidism

• Psychological disorders, such as depression, mental confusion, memory loss.

• Abdominal pain or swelling, especially on the right side.

• Frequent colds/flues/infections/weakened immune system.

• Cancer - Cancer thrives on iron, so know your iron levels before ever taking

iron supplements

The excess iron can cause a " domino " effect, due to the iron damaging one organ

or gland, which then causes subsequent problems with other organs or parts of

the body. It is imperative to diagnose HH early, before permanent organ damage

is done & thereby decreasing the chances of irreversible damage. Eventually, if

left untreated, excess iron will affect he entire body, resulting in premature

death and/or permanent disabilities. Remember: Symptoms or not, iron overload

MUST be treated.

Through education & awareness programs, the American Hemochromatosis Society, is

working to alert the medical community & families, to the dangers of iron

overload. Screening & prevention are the keys to the getting an early diagnosis

& to prevent the permanent damage that may occur from HH. One method for

screening the " at risk " population is through genetic testing. The mutations for

HH were identified in 1996 & an in-home cheekbrush testkit is now available

through many labs in our country. The cost of $110.00 to $130.00 for the testkit

is well worth the knowledge of whether you or your family members are at an

increased risk for overloading iron. No doctor order is necessary for these

tests & it is covered by many insurance plans.

Two labs that we recommend are:

Kimball Genetics Denver,

Colorado 1- In Denver:

Contact person: Annette , PhD

Michigan State University [MSU] Lansing, Michigan,

http://www.phd.msu.edu/hh/hh/html

Call toll free: (877) TEST-DNA (877 837-8362)

While genetic testing will help identify your genetic risks for HH, it is

important to also know your clinical status. This can be achieved by the

following iron profile: Serum Iron, Serum Ferritin, Total Iron Binding Capacity

[TIBC] & Transferrin Saturation. If you are at risk for HH by meeting one of the

above criteria, it is imperative to have both the clinical & genetic testing

done, to get a complete picture of your status. Many people are carriers,

without symptoms, who unknowingly pass the genes onto their children. Therefore,

only doing the clinical iron profile will not help in this case. The genetic

testing should be done to help you to understand the risk for your children &

whether they also need to be tested.

Be sure to ask for all four of the iron tests & they should be done after an

overnight fast. Do not base your iron levels on a hemoglobin level. It is

possible to be anemic, with a low hemoglobin level, and still have iron

overload. ALL anemia should be evaluated for the cause of the anemia, before

treatment ensues. One must not assume that the anemia is caused by iron

deficiency, without first running a complete iron profile. Iron supplements are

too frequently prescribed by doctors, or taken by patients, due to symptoms of

fatigue or anemia, without ever assessing an iron level. Do NOT take iron pills

without first knowing your iron levels! It is important to " know your numbers " &

to obtain copies of all lab/test results, and keep a medical file for your own

reference. Many patients report being told that their levels are " normal, " when

indeed they are not. A result of ferritin >150 & /or TS >45% is suspicious for HH

and requires further evaluation.

Once diagnosed with HH, it is important to get appropriate treatment, which

consists of therapeutic phlebotomies [bloodletting/removal of a pint of blood]

on a weekly or twice weekly basis, as tolerated, until iron storage is depleted.

We use the guidelines set forth in the ls of Internal Medicine, Dec. 1998,

which can be found at our website or obtained, by calling or writing to the AHS.

Basically, their criteria calls for weekly phlebotomies until the hemoglobin

level drops below 12 & does not rebound, and the ferritin is <20. Once the

initial " deironing " is completed, it is very important to maintain a ferritin of

<50 by periodic phlebotomies for the rest of your life. It is also important to

remember that treatment must be individualized to meet the physical demands of

each person & in consideration of any other existing health problems. Many

symptoms and/or problems are improved after the excess iron is removed &

medicines may need to be adjusted accordingly.

Warning: The infection from bacteria, called Vibrio vulnificus, can make you

very sick & may even be fatal, to those with iron overload. These bacteria can

be found in seawater or by handling or eating raw seafood. Do NOT eat raw

oysters if you have HH!

Dietary considerations for those diagnosed with HH: The enrichment of food

products results in many cereals and foods containing up to 100% of the RDA for

iron, in ONE serving! Read your labels & know your iron intake! Reduce red meat

consumption & avoid eating organ meats. Do not smoke or drink alcohol, as this

increases absorption of iron. Vit. C also increases absorption of iron & should

be taken only in moderation & at least 2 hours, before, or after any meals. Do

not take any iron supplements or vitamins containing iron, unless it has been

shown that you are truly iron deficient! Drinking teas with your meals will help

inhibit iron absorption.

For further information or for literature to share with your

doctor/family/friends, please call the AHS at or they have a toll

free hotline at 1-888-655-IRON [4766] or email , AHS

President/Founder at mail@... or visit the AHS website at

www.americanhs.org

For those with an interest in learning more about HH, or seeking support, or

wanting to share your story about HH, we have a free online support group

available. It is called Families HHhelping Families [FHHF] & more information

can be obtained at our website or at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FHHF

Please let us know if the American Hemochromatosis Society can be of any further

assistance to you.

, President AHS

Email: sandra.thomas@...

==================================================================

The following is an excerpt from an email written by Larry Dunn, & helps to

explain the commonly used terms for HH diagnosis & treatment:

Iron is found primarily in hemoglobin (approx. 70% of total body iron). It is

also found in other heme compounds such as myoglobin (oxygen binding protein in

muscle) and a variety of enzymes. Non-heme iron is primarily in ferritin and

hemosiderin.

Transferrin is the protein in the blood that is responsible for the transport of

iron ultimately to the bone marrow to be used in RBC (red blood cell)

production. Ferritin is a soluble storage form of iron and does not lead to

tissue damage and hemosiderin is an

insoluble form (colloidal) that can lead to tissue damage in increased amounts.

Ferritin production is increased or decreased in response to overall iron

stores; 1 ng/mL of serum ferritin equates to about 8 mg of

storage iron.

Hemoglobin is composed of 4 heme molecules and 4 globin (protein) chains. Each

heme is composed of protoporphyrin and ferrous iron. The body is extremely

efficient at reclaiming iron and we normally need only 1-2 mg of absorbed iron

per day to counteract the 1-2 mg of iron that is lost each day through normal

loss of cells lining the GI tract and through normal secretions. Any excess iron

is stored primarily as ferritin at first, then with increasing amounts of

hemosiderin. It is the hemosiderin that results in the tissue damage.

Lab tests commonly used in HH:

Hematocrit [hct]

is the ratio of red blood cells [RBC's] to plasma. It is expressed in percentage

of the blood volume that exists of RBC's.

Hemoglobin [hgb]

is the iron & oxygen carrying portion of the RBC's.

Serum iron:

a measure of the amount of iron in the serum/plasma at a

given time

TIBC:

Total Iron Binding Capacity, this is primarily an indirect measure

of transferrin, which is the main protein that binds iron in the blood %

Saturation: serum iron/TIBC X 100; simply indicates how much of the transferrin

is binding iron

Transferrin:

a test to directly measure transferrin; similar implications

as TIBC

Serum Ferritin:

an indirect measure of stored iron; influenced by a

variety of situations that result in inflammation; fluctuations in these

situations do not reflect changes in iron stores; but still a very good

indicator of iron stores.

Two other tests can help rule out inflammatory influences on ferritin levels are

Erythrocyte Sedimentation Rate(ESR, Sed Rate) and/or CRP(C-Reactive Protein).

Mean Cell Volume [MCV]: this is the average size of RBCs;

-low MCV is seen in iron deficiency anemia; a low MCV is an early

indicator of iron deficient erythropoiesis (RBC production)

-high MCVs are seen in folate or B12 deficiencies, reticulocytosis (as seen

during the therapeutic phlebotomies, indicates a good healthy bone marrow

response to the increased need of RBC production(uses lot of iron in the

process), and liver disease

Erythrocyte protoporphyrin(EP):

in the context of using EP as an indicator of an iron deficient state, EP will

begin to increase when there begins to be a deficiency of iron to make the heme

molecule

***A single test by itself to indicate whether a person has been de-ironed may

give misleading results due to other influences, which can affect that single

test.

As has been stated on this list, a hemoglobin that " bottoms out " and does not

bounce back is probably the best indicator. When that happens the MCV will

decrease, %sat will be low (<20), ferritin will be low (<20), and erythrocyte

protoporphyrins will be high.

It is important, that the patient become knowledgable in his or her treatment,

and establish the kind of relationship with your doctor that allows you to be

actively involved in treatment decisions.

=================================================================

Lethal Lee

[Guest guest]

> Which test indicates how much iron is entering the cells?Is it CBC or

ferritin?

Oh boy. I am not an expert on this stuff. Just trying to reason it out.

Hemoglobin is the protein molecule in red blood cells that carries oxygen from

the lungs to the body's tissues and returns carbon dioxide from the tissues to

the lungs.

The hemoglobin level is the amount of hemoglobin in whole blood.

The hematocrit is the percentage, by volume, of the blood that consists of red

blood cells.

Ferritin: The major iron storage protein. The blood level of ferritin serves as

an indicator of the amount of iron stored in the body.

Ferritin has the shape of a hollow sphere that permits the entry of a variable

amount of iron for storage (as ferric hydroxide phosphate complexes). Free iron

is toxic to cells as it acts as a catalyst in the formation of free radicals so

this protects the body from the free iron until is it needed.

The Hgb and Hct are part of the CBC and show how much is available in the blood

to carry oxygen. Oxygen it vital to life so this get preference over all other

uses of iron in the body. Ferritin levels shows how much is available for backup

for all bodily processes.

So the answer to your question is, they are talking about different cells, Red

Blood Cells or how much is available for the whole body.

[Guest guest]

but what explains that it was steadily increasing for the 3

> years before I was taking any thyroid med at all? Unless one can have

> TSH of 2.7 to 3.9 and NOT be hypoT? Is that possible?

> sol

If I ever find out I will let you know. But that is not the case for the

majority here.

Dorothy

[Guest guest]

> Unless one can have

> TSH of 2.7 to 3.9 and NOT be hypoT? Is that possible?

> sol

I just googled " high TSH and ferritin " and found this. I am not sure if this

applies or not, as I am not sure of the time line on your symptoms and tests.

vm,.

" Biologically, insufficient iron levels may be affecting the first two of three

steps of thyroid hormone synthesis by reducing the activity of the enzyme

thyroid peroxidase, which is dependent on iron. Iron deficiency, in turn, may

also alter thyroid metabolism and reduce the conversion of T4 to T3, besides

modifying the binding of T3. Additionally, low iron levels can increase

circulating concentrations of TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone). "

Dorothy

[Guest guest]

Thanks, but I don't think it applies as I don't see any iron deficiency

in my tests going back to 2005. TSH and ferritin steadily rose together.

sol

dorothyroeder wrote:

Unless one can have TSH of 2.7 to 3.9 and NOT be hypoT? Is that possible?

sol

I just googled "high TSH and ferritin" and found this. I am not sure if this applies or not, as I am not sure of the time line on your symptoms and tests. vm,.

"Biologically, insufficient iron levels may be affecting the first two of three steps of thyroid hormone synthesis by reducing the activity of the enzyme thyroid peroxidase, which is dependent on iron. Iron deficiency, in turn, may also alter thyroid metabolism and reduce the conversion of T4 to T3, besides modifying the binding of T3. Additionally, low iron levels can increase circulating concentrations of TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone)."

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Thanks for an excellent post. It is nice to have all that info in one

place to save, and I am saving it!

sol

Lethal Lee wrote:

> Some info from FHHF Yahoo Group (files).

>

> Note this comment...... " Do not base your iron levels on a hemoglobin level. It

is possible to be anemic, with a low hemoglobin level, and still have iron

overload. "

>

>