Re: What step is Apple on?

[Guest guest]

Mike,

I hate to say it buddy, but your posts are bordering on rude. You

continue to take what I wrote to a trouble maker and then run with it. I

think that what I wrote is clear. That an understanding of what this

group is, in the language of the description, may be needed to keep out

trolls. A troll being someone who pots simply to hurt and harass.

While I do find your constant mockery of a very sincere concern hurtful,

I think that is really just my problem. I'm sensitive to mockery. Maybe

I don't have the thick skin you do.

Your parody of my postt which, again, was written to HP (did you read his

posts?) were heartfelt. That you, someone who I in the last two days

have actually personally asked to POST MORE saddens me. Secondly while I

know you are very amused by your satire, I would like to continue my

refutation of your central point.

On this list there are, from my reading of posts, atheists, a pantheist,

humanists, and traditionally religious.

There are members ( you are a member right) who have concerns about AA,

but who still have some warm regard for certain people there. ( My

closest friend in the world is in NA for 12 years, so I guess I qualify

there too. I do not think that she was brainwashed. There are those who

think that AA is a cult, and that brainwashing of a sort goes on there.

There are a few who have nothing good to say about AA, a few good things

to say about AA, and even some who have a high regard for the program,

but feel that it doesn't work for them. There are also those, like

myself that feels that Aa is misrepresented as being helpful to drinkers,

when in fact, by AA's own stats only 5-12% of those who attend AA are

successful if consistent, long term sobriety is the yardstick.

Some of on this list drink, some abstain, some feel that it may be a

disease of a kind, others don't Some praise RR, others pan it. Some

liked SMART, others didn't care for it. Some can stand Jack Trimpey,

others can't stomach him.

As you can see, we all think alike on this list. Keep posting Mike, you

may have given me the best laugh I have yet.

P.S. Now let's watch how every one agree with every word I have said,

and gives me tons of love and encouragement for seeing the 12 step free

light. NOT!

[Guest guest]

Mike,

I hate to say it buddy, but your posts are bordering on rude. You

continue to take what I wrote to a trouble maker and then run with it. I

think that what I wrote is clear. That an understanding of what this

group is, in the language of the description, may be needed to keep out

trolls. A troll being someone who pots simply to hurt and harass.

While I do find your constant mockery of a very sincere concern hurtful,

I think that is really just my problem. I'm sensitive to mockery. Maybe

I don't have the thick skin you do.

Your parody of my postt which, again, was written to HP (did you read his

posts?) were heartfelt. That you, someone who I in the last two days

have actually personally asked to POST MORE saddens me. Secondly while I

know you are very amused by your satire, I would like to continue my

refutation of your central point.

On this list there are, from my reading of posts, atheists, a pantheist,

humanists, and traditionally religious.

There are members ( you are a member right) who have concerns about AA,

but who still have some warm regard for certain people there. ( My

closest friend in the world is in NA for 12 years, so I guess I qualify

there too. I do not think that she was brainwashed. There are those who

think that AA is a cult, and that brainwashing of a sort goes on there.

There are a few who have nothing good to say about AA, a few good things

to say about AA, and even some who have a high regard for the program,

but feel that it doesn't work for them. There are also those, like

myself that feels that Aa is misrepresented as being helpful to drinkers,

when in fact, by AA's own stats only 5-12% of those who attend AA are

successful if consistent, long term sobriety is the yardstick.

Some of on this list drink, some abstain, some feel that it may be a

disease of a kind, others don't Some praise RR, others pan it. Some

liked SMART, others didn't care for it. Some can stand Jack Trimpey,

others can't stomach him.

As you can see, we all think alike on this list. Keep posting Mike, you

may have given me the best laugh I have yet.

P.S. Now let's watch how every one agree with every word I have said,

and gives me tons of love and encouragement for seeing the 12 step free

light. NOT!

[Guest guest]

> Geeze Ken,

> What's wrong?

> Are outside opinions a threat to your organization?

==============

Not necessarily, but vicious attacks against rape victims are not. From

your post, you appear to be in favor of that sort of thing. Too bad A.A.

doesn't teach people to be better human beings- the exact opposite seems

to be the case.

[Guest guest]

Higher Power wrote:

> So you're the guru of this group?

> Deciding who can and cannot voice opinions?

> Sounds a lot like another group you have been critical of.

> Ever heard of the term " projection " in your psychology studies?

> Maybe it's time for you to look at yourself.

==============

All he needed to look at was a rape victim being attacked and, like any

good person, did all he could to stop the attacker. You support the

attacker- maybe YOU need to look in the mirror.

[Guest guest]

ooh, aren't we a bit bitchy today? Way to carry the message.

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeeGroups

>Subject: What step is Apple on?

>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:29:52 -0800

>

>She is working them, isn't she?

>I'll bet money she's on step one, the biggie.

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

plonk

What step is Apple on?

She is working them, isn't she?

I'll bet money she's on step one, the biggie.

[Guest guest]

i can only guess from your tone you are a stepper and you are claimimg

in you stpepr kind of way that apple suffers from some kind of defect

of character becuase she doesnt claim to be powerless over alchol and

in need of a HP to guide her. if this is true, you really should hit

your knees, pray and call your sponsor for your contempt and personal

attack betrays the truth of your program. AA has nothing to do

sobriety and is all about idoctrination into your hp belief ssystem. if

someone rejects your beliefs, you attempt charcter assisnation. i may

not like what you say, but is surly dont go out of my way to attack you

or any indvidual in AA. except for maybe bob & bill. but they are in

same league as ron L hubbard.

on what little substance there is to your statement, actualy step 1

isnt a biggie at all. the fact is alchol is inaninmate substance. it

has power over no one. everyone has power over what they put in thier

own bodies. period. hp's need not apply. its only big if your trying to

teach people the insane idea they cant control what they put into thier

bodies without devine guidance. it is only a biggie if you teach the

insane notion that alcholics are forever powerless over the first drink

BEFORE they even drink it.

even i belived in a god, i surely would belive in one who would have

granted me the inanate ability to control what i put in body myself and

to learn and grow as human in process, but since i dont belive in God,

er hp, i can only say god didnt put the drinks in my hand and he sure

as hell didnt take them out. i was responsiable for both.

your statement about apple (a person you dont know) is a prime exapmple

of why i will never belive a thing any stepper has to say about the

" program " .

since you have nothing of substance or based on reason to say , and

only offer lame, childish attacks on individuals, i can suggest you

make your personal attacks the topic next time you share at a meeting

" coyboy bob " .

" cowboy bob " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=13891

> She is working them, isn't she?

> I'll bet money she's on step one, the biggie.

>

>

[Guest guest]

" ken ragge " wrote:

> Cowboy,

>

> It seems that you take this powerlessness crap seriously so I can only

> assume you are powerless to not be a vicious ass. Such being the

case,

> the only way I can see to help you is to not allow you to post to this

> list any more.

>

> Ken Ragge

> listowner

and BTW, I would think that a person with your psychology background

would recognize unhealthy behavior patterns.

So you're the guru of this group?

Deciding who can and cannot voice opinions?

Sounds a lot like another group you have been critical of.

Ever heard of the term " projection " in your psychology studies?

Maybe it's time for you to look at yourself.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/25/00 10:42:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,

Arroyoh@... writes:

> What you fail to realize is that this list has limited topic. It is not

> 12 step debate. I am starting to wonder if we need to ask for

> confirmation that a person reads and understands the description of this

> list before posting.

>

> Let me see if my limited intelligence can grasp this concept you expose.

To join the list a person has to be 100% against AA, must never say anything

good about AA or the 12 steps. It is cool for them to praise groups like

Smart and the one with the " small book. " (I wanted to say something nasty

here but I just criticized someone in another post for attacking someone's

intelligence.) lol

The member has to pledge the following "

There is nothing good about AA.

All people who find solace and sobriety through the 12 steps are brainwashed.

They may have attended a 12 step group in the past but they must prove to the

" POWERS THAT BE " on this list. (Wonder who they are) that they have renounced

this foolishness.

They would probably be censured severely if they backslide and went back to a

12 step meeting. I'm sure a debriefing and indoctrination committee could be

instituted.

Although it isn't said, I think the person would fit into the clique much

faster if they never made any references to anything spiritual.

They should never talk rationally about the 12 steps and the negativity in AA

with an AA member, because then they might actually have to evaluate two

different concepts.

Someone like me who sees what is happening in AA and makes no apologies for

these things but needs to talk about them is not an asset to this group.

In all seriousness my AA attendance is not what it once was. I have a very

small group of friends who I trust and socialize with. I no longer look

forward to going to meetings. Some meetings yes, but a lot of them turn me

off.

Well, I will continue to hang out here until you form your other group.

It is pretty sad and disheartening though.

I forget who said it but I believe the quote is appropriate.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

[Guest guest]

sean p cashin wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=14342

> P.S. Now let's watch how every one agree with every word I have said,

> and gives me tons of love and encouragement for seeing the 12 step

free

> light. NOT!

chuckle I like this...

Judith