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Beats me... just copy & paste it into an e-mail message. Also, when it

has been completed, please be sure to send it to me so I can post it on

the Deprogramming site.

Apple

" tommy perkins " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12724

> I attempted to forward, from the 12-step-free archives, the below

> former post of mine to an outside non-list member. The only section

> that was forwarded was the section above the dotted line. Anyone know

> why?

>

> /group/12-step-free/10159.html?

>

> Tommy

>

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  • 1 month later...
Guest guest

Hi Kayleigh.

I think the reasons are similiar to those Henry Ford had when he supported

the Prohibition.

If the workers didn't drink, they would be more productive, and they

would have more money left to buy a car.

I think the increased focus on drugs is a result of capitalist competition.

And in this context moralists are useful idiots.

Just my conclusion.

Bjørn

Kayleigh S wrote:

Why do EAP's seem to think it's their mission

to find a drug or alcohol

problem every time someone comes to them? Maybe I'm naive, but I

thought they were supposed to help employees with any kind of problem,

debt counselling, what have you. How did this drug/alcohol thing get

so institutionalized?

eGroups.com Home: /group/12-step-free

www. - Simplifying

group communications

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Sure wasn't.

" pete watts " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=14168

> Hi Kayleigh

>

> My understanding is that EAP's actually *started* thru AA 12-step work

> in companies, and only later expanded to include other things. Once on

> addict-l I asked why EAP's were so program biased and a grouper there

> thought my quaton was ridiculous! To her the idea that EAP's not be

> AA-based was like priests not being Christians!

>

> Now I hope it wasnt you that said that on addict-l. ;)

>

> P.

>

> " kayleigh s " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=141

36

> > Why do EAP's seem to think it's their mission to find a drug or

> alcohol

> > problem every time someone comes to them? Maybe I'm naive, but I

> > thought they were supposed to help employees with any kind of

problem,

> > debt counselling, what have you. How did this drug/alcohol thing

get

> > so institutionalized?

> >

>

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Sure. I went to the EAP a couple of times for depression and they

referred me to regular therapists.

-- Jim

" judith stillwater " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=14164

> I'd like to pose a supplemental question: has anyone ever had

firsthand

> (or even secondhand) experience of getting assistance from an EAP that

> was NOT 12 step oriented?

>

> Judith

>

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" kayleigh s " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=14136

> Why do EAP's seem to think it's their mission to find a drug or

alcohol

> problem every time someone comes to them? Maybe I'm naive, but I

> thought they were supposed to help employees with any kind of problem,

> debt counselling, what have you. How did this drug/alcohol thing get

> so institutionalized?

>

-----------------------

It depends on the power structure, and where their bread and

butter is coming from.

If an EAP is paid halfies by management and halfies by a union or

other employee organization, it will be more likely to be true to the

" mission " of EAP's espoused by the Employee Assistance Professionals

Association: to assist employees with any problem which may be

affecting job performance. OTOH, an EAP paid entirely by management

will likely be corrupted by this, and less likely to be objective and

responsive to the employee's needs and concerns. In the most extreme

cases (such as the EAP in my railroad company) the EAP is endowed by

management with disciplinary powers, and is literally paid by

management to find (or create) " problems " , and then threaten employees

with monetary disciplinary action if they don't " respond to counseling "

the way the EAP counselors think they " ought " to. Our rulebook and

labor contract actually state that employees are forbidden from seeing

the EAP voluntarily; we are only sent to the EAP by disciplinary

mandate following a " positive " drug/alcohol test. We are then

forbidden from discussing any real issues, and required to fulfill the

counselors' fantasies.

Substance abuse problems resulting in job performance difficulties

were the original reason for forming EAP's, and still the most common

reason for voluntarily seeking out their assistance. But when the

resources are too limited, and/or the power structure is all wrong, the

EAP becomes myopic, and will simply rubber-stamp everyone as

" alcoholic " or " drug addict " and give so-called " counseling " that is

nothing more than " How many meetings did you go to this week? " and

quizzes on Step ideology.

I've heard that there are some really progressive, genuinely

caring EAP's out there somewhere in some private companies, but I've

never known anyone who worked for such a firm.

~Rita

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Rita:

What perks did your union get for the trade-offs it evidently made to

management regarding the EAP?

Your EAP is by far the least enlightened and least intelligent of any

I've heard of.

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  • 4 months later...

The problem is not the thirst but the size of the sips. I am only 11 days

post-op and I still have a hard time remembering to take small sips.

Russ

304/274/175

open rny 08/01/00

Dr. S. Randall LMH

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Immediately after surgery...(in the hospital) they will let you have dampened

glycerine swabs to keep your mouth moist. Then you'll graduate to

ice chips. After coming home the very last thing on earth I wanted

to do was drink. Water tasted terrible to me for awhile, and because

you *must* have an adequate fluid intake I was sipping something almost

constantly. So no, in my experience, thirst hasn't been an issue.

Marcia wrote:

As I sit here

drinking glass # 7 of, my usual 8 glasses of water a day, I can not help

but wonder ... since I will not have the capacity to drink so much after

surgery (immediately after) don't you get thirsty ?Marciasurgery

date 9-28-00Dr Thayermomcat@...

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Not any more than usual and I can still drink alot. I just sip sip sip all day

Lyssa

-----Original Message-----From: Marcia Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2000 9:21 PMTo: OSSG-NewEnglandegroupsSubject: question

As I sit here drinking glass # 7 of, my usual 8 glasses of water a day, I can not help but wonder ... since I will not have the capacity to drink so much after surgery (immediately after) don't you get thirsty ?

Marcia

surgery date 9-28-00

Dr Thayer

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  • 1 year later...

Jane, It is so funny that you mentioned this question, as I was wondering

the same thing. I had an HSG test yesterday, and reviewed the films with my

RE. This picture was done after 4 hysteroscopies since February, so keep

that in mind. Anyway, the cavity itself was bigger than when this whole AS

thing started, so that was good. Instead of the perfect triangular shape,

it was distorted. It looked kind of long and skinny, like a river on a map,

but there were 2 corners or " angles " at the top, where the " triangle " part

shows. Another reason why we are seeing Dr. Valle on November 2nd, just

sorry it took 4 surgeries to wake us up. Hope that helps. I too, am

interested in what others have to say. Carol Anne

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