Re: - HRT Warnings Stepped Up.

[Guest guest]

I read that the HRT's containing progesterone are the ones that cause most of

the problems, not the ones which contain estrogen only.

Ora

http://www.cancerpage.com/cancernews/cancernews4697.htm

Hormone Mix May Hold Key to HRT Risks

By Woodman

LONDON Aug 02, 2002 (Reuters) - The risks and benefits of hormone replacement

therapy may depend crucially on the formulations and dosages used, medical and

industry analysts said on Friday.

As a new study was published in the British Medical Journal showing that HRT may

protect women from developing cancer of the womb lining, they said different

types and combinations of oestrogens and progestogens had different effects on

the body.

Millions of women use HRT to relieve menopausal symptoms and stave off

osteoporosis, or brittle bone disease. But alarms were raised over HRT safety

last month when a major U.S. clinical trial was stopped due to worries over

serious side effects.

" The different formulations have different metabolic effects on the tissues

where they act, " said Professor Purdie, head of clinical research at the

center for metabolic bone disease at Hull Royal Infirmary, northeast England.

The latest study, by scientists at the University of Sheffield in northern

England, showed that none of the 534 women on HRT developed endometrial (womb

lining) cancer after five years of treatment -- and tissue abnormalities in the

wombs of 21 women were reversed.

The findings come less than a month after U.S. officials reported that women on

combined HRT had a higher risk of heart attack or stroke, as well as the known

small increased risk of breast cancer.

Although the two studies had different aims and cannot be compared, researchers

believe they have at least one thing in common -- their findings are relevant

only to the particular products and formulations used, not to the whole HRT

class.

Professor Wells, who conducted the British study, said that although his

results were reassuring, the safety of some other HRT regimens including those

containing low doses of oestrogens and different hormone combinations " needs to

be evaluated continually. "

Prempro, made by U.S. drugmaker Wyeth, was the brand of HRT used in the U.S.

study whereas the British study used Danish company Novo Nordisk's continuous

combined HRT therapy Kliogest.

HORSE-DERIVED

" These results in the United States are formulation-specific, " said Professor

Purdie in an interview with Reuters.

He noted that only the arm of the U.S. study in which women were given a

combination of horse-derived oestrogens and progestogen had been stopped whereas

the oestrogen-only arm was continuing.

" The natural human hormone oestradiol has very different effects on the

cardiovascular system than do the mixture of horse oestrogens which were used by

the Americans, " he said.

Stock markets savaged all companies involved in HRT therapy in the wake of the

U.S. trial news, with Wyeth losing $32 billion in market value, though its HRT

franchise is worth only $2 billion a year.

Professor Archer, head of clinical research at the Institute for

Reproductive Medicine in Norfolk, Virginia, said the latest UK study findings on

endometrial cancer were encouraging.

But he added in a BMJ editorial: " These data should be taken in context with the

formulation... used in the study. Other formulations may not result in the same

outcome. "

Pendrill, pharmaceuticals analyst at ABN AMRO in London, said that since

the U.S. trial used only high-dose Prempro the findings did not necessarily

apply to lower combinational doses or other types of treatment.

Indeed, the damage to Prempro's image -- and thus its sales -- could see other

products taking market share.

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:27:08 -0800 (PST), suzy fromage

wrote:

>I wish they would differentiate between HRT that

>includes Premarin, and HRT that includes bioidentical

>hormones. I sure would like to know if bioidentical

>hormones carry the same sort of risks, as I am nearing

>menopause (she said hopefully). As far as I know, no

>large study of bioidentical hormones is being done.

>Dee?

>

>Suzy

[Guest guest]

Do you have a copy of what they said? I would surely like to read it.

Ora

>That isn't what I heard Ora, the Harvard women's newsletter is now saying no

>no to estrogen.

>Lona

>

>

>> I read that the HRT's containing progesterone are the ones that cause most

>of

>> the problems, not the ones which contain estrogen only.

>>

>> Ora

>>

>> http://www.cancerpage.com/cancernews/cancernews4697.htm

>>

>> Hormone Mix May Hold Key to HRT Risks

>>

>> By Woodman

>>

>> LONDON Aug 02, 2002 (Reuters) - The risks and benefits of hormone

>replacement

>> therapy may depend crucially on the formulations and dosages used, medical

>and

>> industry analysts said on Friday.

>

>

>

>Please discuss all methods of treatment with your practitioner. NONE of this is

to be taken as medical advice but merely opinions offered!

>

>

>*****END OF MESSAGE*****

>-------------------------------------------------

>Yahoo members can click on:

>

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VulvarDisorders

>

>On the left side is a listing including Links and

> Files . If you click on those you will find much additional

>information posted by our members.

>

>To post message: VulvarDisorders

> To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe

> Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe

> List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner

>

>*****

[Guest guest]

That isn't what I heard Ora, the Harvard women's newsletter is now saying no

no to estrogen.

Lona

> I read that the HRT's containing progesterone are the ones that cause most

of

> the problems, not the ones which contain estrogen only.

>

> Ora

>

> http://www.cancerpage.com/cancernews/cancernews4697.htm

>

> Hormone Mix May Hold Key to HRT Risks

>

> By Woodman

>

> LONDON Aug 02, 2002 (Reuters) - The risks and benefits of hormone

replacement

> therapy may depend crucially on the formulations and dosages used, medical

and

> industry analysts said on Friday.

[Guest guest]

I just saw a site which stated that the Harvard study of 724,000 nurses

indicated that those who took estrogen alone had much less breast cancer than

those who took estrogen WITH progesterone.

They must have something new. I would really like to read it. How does one

subscribe to the Newsletter? Can you ask her.

Thanks.

Ora

>No I don't Ora, a friend gets it and calls me and reads it to me. We are

>off all hormones now, wish I had never taken them as it is my understanding

>that estrogen also goes to the breast and can cause a higher incidence of

>cancer. Right now I am online looking for soft knit skirts that I can wear

>during treatments, if I have time later I'll look for some info.

>Lona

>

>

>> Do you have a copy of what they said? I would surely like to read it.

>>

>> Ora

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> >That isn't what I heard Ora, the Harvard women's newsletter is now saying

>no

>> >no to estrogen.

>> >Lona

>>

>

[Guest guest]

No I don't Ora, a friend gets it and calls me and reads it to me. We are

off all hormones now, wish I had never taken them as it is my understanding

that estrogen also goes to the breast and can cause a higher incidence of

cancer. Right now I am online looking for soft knit skirts that I can wear

during treatments, if I have time later I'll look for some info.

Lona

> Do you have a copy of what they said? I would surely like to read it.

>

> Ora

>

>

>

>

> >That isn't what I heard Ora, the Harvard women's newsletter is now saying

no

> >no to estrogen.

> >Lona

>

[Guest guest]

I took them for a while but the made me feel like I was pregnant the whole time

I took them. Swollen breasts, swollen ankles, etc. etc. I stopped taking them

and everything returned to normal. But I wasn't taking them for menopause, it

was to hopefully help my vulvodynia.

Ora

>No I don't Ora, a friend gets it and calls me and reads it to me. We are

>off all hormones now, wish I had never taken them as it is my understanding

>that estrogen also goes to the breast and can cause a higher incidence of

>cancer. Right now I am online looking for soft knit skirts that I can wear

>during treatments, if I have time later I'll look for some info.

>Lona

>

>

>> Do you have a copy of what they said? I would surely like to read it.

>>

>> Ora

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> >That isn't what I heard Ora, the Harvard women's newsletter is now saying

>no

>> >no to estrogen.

>> >Lona

>>

>

>

>

>Please discuss all methods of treatment with your practitioner. NONE of this is

to be taken as medical advice but merely opinions offered!

>

>

>*****END OF MESSAGE*****

>-------------------------------------------------

>Yahoo members can click on:

>

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VulvarDisorders

>

>On the left side is a listing including Links and

> Files . If you click on those you will find much additional

>information posted by our members.

>

>To post message: VulvarDisorders

> To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe

> Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe

> List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner

>

>*****

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:27:08 -0800 (PST), suzy fromage

wrote:

>I wish they would differentiate between HRT that

>includes Premarin, and HRT that includes bioidentical

>hormones. I sure would like to know if bioidentical

>hormones carry the same sort of risks, as I am nearing

>menopause (she said hopefully). As far as I know, no

>large study of bioidentical hormones is being done.

>Dee?

>

>Suzy

Following is a report from Dee which she posted to the Lichen Sclerosis group

some time back. I think it will answer your question. It is rather long but I

suggest you save it so you can refer to it in the future. It contains a lot of

great information.

Ora

I know it can be confusing to a new member so I hope this helps and

it's only 'my' preference and personal experience as to the

differences between Estrace

(17b Estradiol) and Premarin. It's another long one, *grin* ... I

know it will be, ; )

Some like their Premarin and it can work too (esp. those in other

countries who can't get Estrace) and has been the standard for many

years so it's often reached for as a matter of habit by most

physicians, but for 'me' it's the bio-identicalness of the Estrace

(17b estradiol) that " I " prefer. So believe me, this is 'my'

opinion and why 'I' prefer it, but it's with the knowledge behind it

and not just 'my' thoughts.

For one thing, I know that Premarin can stay in your body once you

stop it for as long as 14 weeks (that 3 plus months) as opposed to

Estrace which is out of our systems usually within 48 hrs or less

when we stop using it. (I'm speaking of it for HRT and not the creams

here since the E. cream is negliable and rarely absorbed

systemically. (I've no idea about Premarin creams and body

absorption rates. )

Here are several various comments I've put together on Premarin:

" Premarin is extracted urine from pregnant mares known as conjugated

equine estrogens or CEE's... The manufacturer stopped using the

word " equine " several years ago after ''People for Ethical Treatment

of Animals'' began to make consumers aware of the inhumane way

pregnant mares are confined during the periods of urine collection.

However, dropping " equine " and saying it's 'natural' from PR

materials certainly didn't change the composition of the product or

the way it is collected--it still contains many estrogens simply NOT

natural to a woman's body.''

It's not the horses I was so concerned about (which is really a

horrible mistreatment) but more so as to what and how it

affected 'my' body) !! So even tho they may call it 'natural'

remember it's natural for horses and not us.

" Conjugated equine estrogen " (CEE's) (meaning Premarin) refers to

the entire group of about 10 or more different chemical molecules

that have different and much stronger " attachment strengths " for the

estradiol 'receptor' sites than

does even our own human estradiol. The equine estrogens, (not

natural to

humans), stay in the body far longer, (up to 14 weeks) than does

estradiol.''

''Other biodentical forms of estradiol, [Estrace for one], identical

in

molecular structure to what the human ovary makes have been available

for quite awhile but doctors are still in the habit of prescribing

the highly marketed Premarin. Some physicians assume estrogen is

estrogen, but if it's not identical in molecular structure to what

our ovaries make, it simply ''cannot'' function the same and can

produce ugly side affects!!''

''What should we as physicians know about Premarin (conjugated equine

estrogens)

Those of us reviewing the medical and scientific literature, and

understanding the potential risks implications of xeno-estrogens

should know..(estrogens which are foreign or strange to the human

body) there are many papers that discuss the potential risks of xeno-

estrogens, such as the paper by Zang, et al.''

''They state that the equine estrogens equilin and equilenin, which

are components of the estrogen replacement formulation ''Premarin''

(Wyeth-Ayerst), are metabolized into 4-hydroxyequilenin. 'This 4-

hydroxyequilenin induced four different types of DNA damage and has

the potential to be a potent carcinogen through the formation of

variety of DNA injury. (Zhang F,et al. Chem Res Toxicol. 2001 Dec)''

Just a side note but Premarin also raises triglycerides as well.

Our bodies make 3 kinds of natural estrogen:

Estradiol 17-b, (the mother hormone and one we lose with menopause or

hysterectomy and is what Estrace is made of, (cream or oral or

patches etc as long as it says 'Estradiol' as the main ingredient)

Estriol, (the weakest and usually only measurable during pregnancy,

and Estrone.

Estrone is the form of estrogen that many researchers think may be

related to the higher risk of endometrial & breast cancer in older

women who are obese. Estrone continues to be produced in the liver &

body fat & adrenal glands after menopause. The more body fat a woman

has before or after menopause the more estrone is present. "

It may be a part of why a womens body shape changes during menopause,

(more pear shape) and may be the lack of enough Estradiol as opposed

to Estrone.

And of all things......''Premarin is one of the estrogen products

that give HIGH LEVELS OF ESTRONE and RELATIVELY LITTLE OF THE 17-BETA

ESTRADIOL'':

''The FDA admits that nobody knows what all the " active " ingredients

in

Premarin are, although 8 estrogen compounds are currently considered

essential. Wyeth-Ayerst researchers claim that there are ''more than

100 steroids'' in Premarin. The potential effects of the other 92-

plus

waste equine steroids that are not considered " active " are unknown.''

This is a clip from the FDA history of Premarin:

" The two compounds were known to be the most abundant estrogens in

Premarin are estrone and equiline. Clinical data showing estrone

to be an active estrogen were available, and small-scale clinical

studies of sodium equilin sulfate indicated that it was a 'more'

potent estrogen than estrone.

Limited data from a study completed suggested that sodium 17a-

dihydroequilin sulfate, the third most abundant estrogen in Premarin,

had little clinical activity. "

MY NOTE*** see the 'above' with the mention of this 4-

hydroxyequilenin and the DNA damage, 'assuming they're the same or

similiar. )

''PREMARIN (Conjugated Estrogens USP) (was approved in 1942)

Is a mixture of estrogens, obtained exclusively from natural sources,

(remember 'natural' meaning horse urine does not mean 'natural' or

bio-identical to us) occurring as the sodium salts of water-soluble

oestrogen sulphates blended to represent the average composition of

material derived from pregnant mares' urine.

It contains estrone, equilin and 17 alpha-dihydroequilin, together

with smaller amounts of 17alpha -estradiol, equilenin, and 17 alpha-

dihydroequilenin as salts of their sulphate esters.''

(NOTE that it's 17 'a' estradiol and not the 17 'b'.. estradiol )''

ESTRACE CREAM (Estrace was approved in 1975)

This is what Estrace (oral & cream) has in it you'll see no other

hormones than the Estradiol, the other ingredients are in the base

for delivery.~

" Estrace vaginal cream contains 0.1 mg 17 b estradiol per gram in a

nonliquefying base containing purified water, propylene glycol,

stearyl alcohol, white ceresin wax, glyceryl monostearate,

hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, 2208 4000 cps, sodium lauryl sulfate,

methylparaben, edetate disodium and tertiary-butylhydroquinon.''

A good compounding pharmacy will leave out some of these

possible irritants in the base cream.

ORAL ESTRACE TABLETS DESCRIPTION for HRT.'

Estrace tablets for oral administration contain 0.5, 1, or 2 mg of

micronized estradiol per tablet. Estradiol (17b-estradiol) is a

white, crystalline, solid, chemically described as estra-1,3,5(10)-

triene-3,17b-diol. Its molecular formula is C18H24O2 and its

molecular weight is 272.39. 0.5 mg

Estrace 0.5 mg tablets contain the following inactive ingredients:

acacia, dibasic calcium phosphate, lactose, magnesium stearate,

colloidal silicon dioxide, starch (corn), and talc.

(The l or 2 mg tablets also contain dyes not included in this clip).

A good compounding pharmacy will leave out the dyes and many of the

other inactive ingredients.

One last thing I'd like to mention and have before on the list, there

was a huge study that came out early Jan.of 2000 from the American

Cancer Inst.. with over 47,000 women and it is almost certain that it

was the addition of PROVERA (a progestin) TO PREMARIN that can

increase ones chances of Breast Cancer as high as 35 to 40%!! (other

studies that followed found the same results.)

Now in that study believe me, it took me many many hours of deeper

researching to find out 'exactly' what 'type' of estrogen they used,

but indeed it was the PREMARIN.....and the PROVERA (a progestin) ...

though most journalists reports at the time simply stated that it was

a progestin with an estrogen OR worse only mentioned estrogen which

was 'not' the problem. (and wasn't in most of those studies)

So you can imagine what the media reported and again threw a fear

into women with just the mention of 'estrogen' (Progestins and

Progesterone are another long story for another time.)

NOTE*** Ironically I just read recently a report from the FDA that

Premarin 'also' contains progestins (which I had NO idea of ) and

doubt the FDA did either since they're so secretive.) *another

reason to avoid it in 'my' opinion.*

THEN......... a more recent large study, the summer of '02 by the

WHI using PREMPRO (Premarin & Provera) again a combination of

both ... That too was also halted !! and a big uproar about it.

Apparently they just didn't learn from the previous one again noting

a large increase in breast cancer, etc, while the Premarin arm of

that study is still currently on-going, they did stop the combination

one, thank goodness!

In these cases and studies it's most definitely is absolutely a case

of the Progestins that are the major problem and concern, but 'still'

I only wish they could have used the bio-identical Estradiol as in

Estrace and why more studies are not done with that is so

unfortunate, it just does not make sense to not use an estrogen that

IS bio-identical but again that 'mind set' that all estrogens are

alike when they simply ARE NOT.... regardless of what a physician may

tell you.

One good reason I can think of as to why they use Premarin so often

is that since the Estrace company is much smaller they don't have the

deep pockets that Premarin does.. and Premarin 'donates'

their 'product' (so nice of them eh? ) Talk about a conflict of

interest. I can see why they're the leaders in the industry with

the money spent on PR. Plus Premarin's been around since 1942 and

Estrace only since 1975....so it's well known.

[Guest guest]

Estrogen has always been reported as causing cancers, of the breast,

uterus and ovaries. In my readings, it has been reported to cause LESS

cancers than the combined therapy of estrogen and progesterone.

Dusty

Re: - HRT Warnings Stepped Up.

I read that the HRT's containing progesterone are the ones that cause

most of

the problems, not the ones which contain estrogen only.

Ora

http://www.cancerpage.com/cancernews/cancernews4697.htm

Hormone Mix May Hold Key to HRT Risks

By Woodman

LONDON Aug 02, 2002 (Reuters) - The risks and benefits of hormone

replacement

therapy may depend crucially on the formulations and dosages used,

medical and

industry analysts said on Friday.

As a new study was published in the British Medical Journal showing that

HRT may

protect women from developing cancer of the womb lining, they said

different

types and combinations of oestrogens and progestogens had different

effects on

the body.

Millions of women use HRT to relieve menopausal symptoms and stave off

osteoporosis, or brittle bone disease. But alarms were raised over HRT

safety

last month when a major U.S. clinical trial was stopped due to worries

over

serious side effects.

" The different formulations have different metabolic effects on the

tissues

where they act, " said Professor Purdie, head of clinical research

at the

center for metabolic bone disease at Hull Royal Infirmary, northeast

England.

The latest study, by scientists at the University of Sheffield in

northern

England, showed that none of the 534 women on HRT developed endometrial

(womb

lining) cancer after five years of treatment -- and tissue abnormalities

in the

wombs of 21 women were reversed.

The findings come less than a month after U.S. officials reported that

women on

combined HRT had a higher risk of heart attack or stroke, as well as the

known

small increased risk of breast cancer.

Although the two studies had different aims and cannot be compared,

researchers

believe they have at least one thing in common -- their findings are

relevant

only to the particular products and formulations used, not to the whole

HRT

class.

Professor Wells, who conducted the British study, said that

although his

results were reassuring, the safety of some other HRT regimens including

those

containing low doses of oestrogens and different hormone combinations

" needs to

be evaluated continually. "

Prempro, made by U.S. drugmaker Wyeth, was the brand of HRT used in the

U.S.

study whereas the British study used Danish company Novo Nordisk's

continuous

combined HRT therapy Kliogest.

HORSE-DERIVED

" These results in the United States are formulation-specific, " said

Professor

Purdie in an interview with Reuters.

He noted that only the arm of the U.S. study in which women were given a

combination of horse-derived oestrogens and progestogen had been stopped

whereas

the oestrogen-only arm was continuing.

" The natural human hormone oestradiol has very different effects on the

cardiovascular system than do the mixture of horse oestrogens which were

used by

the Americans, " he said.

Stock markets savaged all companies involved in HRT therapy in the wake

of the

U.S. trial news, with Wyeth losing $32 billion in market value, though

its HRT

franchise is worth only $2 billion a year.

Professor Archer, head of clinical research at the Institute

for

Reproductive Medicine in Norfolk, Virginia, said the latest UK study

findings on

endometrial cancer were encouraging.

But he added in a BMJ editorial: " These data should be taken in context

with the

formulation... used in the study. Other formulations may not result in

the same

outcome. "

Pendrill, pharmaceuticals analyst at ABN AMRO in London, said

that since

the U.S. trial used only high-dose Prempro the findings did not

necessarily

apply to lower combinational doses or other types of treatment.

Indeed, the damage to Prempro's image -- and thus its sales -- could see

other

products taking market share.

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:27:08 -0800 (PST), suzy fromage

wrote:

>I wish they would differentiate between HRT that

>includes Premarin, and HRT that includes bioidentical

>hormones. I sure would like to know if bioidentical

>hormones carry the same sort of risks, as I am nearing

>menopause (she said hopefully). As far as I know, no

>large study of bioidentical hormones is being done.

>Dee?

>

>Suzy

Please discuss all methods of treatment with your practitioner. NONE of

this is to be taken as medical advice but merely opinions offered!

*****END OF MESSAGE*****

-------------------------------------------------

Yahoo members can click on:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VulvarDisorders

On the left side is a listing including Links and

Files . If you click on those you will find much additional

information posted by our members.

To post message: VulvarDisorders

To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe

Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe

List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner

*****

[Guest guest]

This article is not new - it is dated August 2002, and was published

because of the WHI study.

Nevertheless, we should all be aware that there is really no safe

hormone until more studies are done and the knowledge base is expanded

to include all drug therapies available.

Dusty

Re: - HRT Warnings Stepped Up.

That isn't what I heard Ora, the Harvard women's newsletter is now

saying no

no to estrogen.

Lona

> I read that the HRT's containing progesterone are the ones that cause

most

of

> the problems, not the ones which contain estrogen only.

>

> Ora

>

> http://www.cancerpage.com/cancernews/cancernews4697.htm

>

> Hormone Mix May Hold Key to HRT Risks

>

> By Woodman

>

> LONDON Aug 02, 2002 (Reuters) - The risks and benefits of hormone

replacement

> therapy may depend crucially on the formulations and dosages used,

medical

and

> industry analysts said on Friday.

Please discuss all methods of treatment with your practitioner. NONE of

this is to be taken as medical advice but merely opinions offered!

*****END OF MESSAGE*****

-------------------------------------------------

Yahoo members can click on:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VulvarDisorders

On the left side is a listing including Links and

Files . If you click on those you will find much additional

information posted by our members.

To post message: VulvarDisorders

To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe

Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe

List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner

*****

[Guest guest]

During a normal menstrual cycle, our bodies produce estrogens in increasing

amounts until mid cycle. Then estrogens decline gradually and progesterone

increases. But when we take HRT we take the same amounts every day. Perhaps

that is the problem.

http://www.holisticonline.com/Remedies/hrt/hrt_menstr_hormone.htm

Ora

>Estrogen has always been reported as causing cancers, of the breast,

>uterus and ovaries. In my readings, it has been reported to cause LESS

>cancers than the combined therapy of estrogen and progesterone.

>

>Dusty

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

For a good FAQ on Estrogen Replacement Therapy Problems

and other subjects, go to:

http://www.wdxcyber.com/mert.htm#mert07

Ora