Re: Normies Anonymous

[Guest guest]

How nice it is to see you on the list again. I know that you have been very

busy. How's that book coming?

Apple, I understand how you feel about losing a friend, especially to that

black and white--sick, self fulfilling prophecy kind of thinking. I wonder

how many people have died because of that kind of thinking-- " you relapsed so

now it is all over for you, you must continue the horrors of the downward

spiral to 'jails, institutions, and death.' " And the worst part of it is

that the group works to perpetuate this one and only kind of thinking, shuns

those who ask questions about the correctness of this information, acting

like a group of locus to correct YOUR supposed " wrong " thinking.

My gut started to feel funny the moment I set foot in AA. But they were

right about one thing. I was pretty damn desperate when I got there, so I

just sort of let things happen to me. It was only when I started to get

told that there was something wrong with me when I wouldn't allow myself to

be hugged (really groped) by the convicted serial rapist that I began to

examine my concerns in earnest. When I looked around I started to see stuff

that frightened me more than the stuff that went on when I was washing down

painkillers with booze. I saw con artists who were still con artist, only

better at it because they were sober. I saw women especially being

manipulated, and molded into some sick image of what the group thought they

should be. When I woke up to all of this and more (and I have left out a

lot here) my ick-o-meter went wild.

Again Apple, I am sorry for the loss of your friends. I too have felt the

bite of being judged harshly for my beliefs (more appropriately likened to

fear on their part). I think of the people who I used to consider my

" friends " as being stuck still in the cult of AA, and feel sad for them that

they have these ideas that aren't really their own.

Take care sweet Apple,

llawrence@...

Normies Anonymous

> http://www.delphi.com/Normiesspeakout/messages

>

> I found a new discussion group on Delphi today, called Normies

> Anonymous for people who have lost loved ones to the herd. Looks

> pretty cool.

>

> For those who don't know, I've allowed myself to enjoy a drink here and

> there, off & on... for example, I had champagne to toast millenium. I

> had a couple of beers on a few occasions since then as well. I made the

> foolish mistake of letting one of my last few stepper friends know

> about it. BIG MISTAKE. We engaged in a long telephone conversation in

> which she told me in the usual Programese that I was now " OUT " and I

> haven't heard from her since. I crossed the line. The funny thing is

> that I started buying into it when I spoke to her on the phone, but I

> came to my senses as soon as I hung up. I hate losing people from my

> life.

>

> The pains of social death do hurt....

>

> Apple

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> At calypso.com, members create their very own web stores to earn $$.

> Just point, click & type to create a store. Earn extra money when you,

> family or friends shop from your store. Click to

> http://click./1/1589/1/_/4324/_/950900729/

>

> eGroups.com Home: /group/12-step-free/

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

[Guest guest]

Apple:

Good to read you again. Sorry to hear about your fair weather friend. I

recently cut the ties between myself and just such a friend. Hated the

programese coming at me all the time. I realize it was for the best but the

sense of loss is real so I empathize. It went away rather quickly which

really surprised and pleased me.

Normies Anonymous

http://www.delphi.com/Normiesspeakout/messages

We engaged in a long telephone conversation in

which she told me in the usual Programese that I was now " OUT " and I

haven't heard from her since.

[Guest guest]

Hi Apple,

Sorry about your friend being so shallow. They simply

cannot even come close to comprehending that moderation

could be an option. I think that they would be very afraid

of even thinking about it and probably rush to a meeting

and confess their " diseased thoughts. " What a lousy way

to live.

I would consider myself " out " right now, not because I

am drinking, but because I don't want to be " in "

> I did have a drink since I left and I will allow myself

that option again sometime. But I won't tell any left-

over AA friends that. It's just none of their business.

Sue

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Apple,

It blows me away every time I hear this. How can people be so shallow

to base their friendship on a stupid 12 step program? Just one of the many

reasons why I got out.

Mike M

At 11:05 AM 02/18/2000 -0800, you wrote:

>http://www.delphi.com/Normiesspeakout/messages

>

>I found a new discussion group on Delphi today, called Normies

>Anonymous for people who have lost loved ones to the herd. Looks

>pretty cool.

>

>For those who don't know, I've allowed myself to enjoy a drink here and

>there, off & on... for example, I had champagne to toast millenium. I

>had a couple of beers on a few occasions since then as well. I made the

>foolish mistake of letting one of my last few stepper friends know

>about it. BIG MISTAKE. We engaged in a long telephone conversation in

>which she told me in the usual Programese that I was now " OUT " and I

>haven't heard from her since. I crossed the line. The funny thing is

>that I started buying into it when I spoke to her on the phone, but I

>came to my senses as soon as I hung up. I hate losing people from my

>life.

>

>The pains of social death do hurt....

>

>Apple