Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Hi I have been reading the posts on fine tuning with great interest. I have just started taking Armour thyroid 1 grain in the morning. Prior to that I was on T4 Thyroxine 50mcg daily for about 1 year. It really did not make much difference to me. My latest Thyroid tests were on 4th May 2004. Before I started Armour thyroid. The results look like this: TSH 2.52 miu/L Ref. Range 0.35 - 5.00 FT4 15.1 pmol/L Ref. Range 11.00 - 23.00 At the time of this test I had not been taking the Thyroxine for a couple of months. Surprisingly that is the highest FT4 result I have ever had. I have a diagnosis of CFS and FMS and am also currently being treated for Borreliosis with a herbal remedy called Samento (TOA Free Cat's Claw liquid extract). In addition to this I fear I may actually have a mild case of unrecognised Sheehan's Syndrome following a massive PPH after the birth of my daughter in 1986. This signalled the beginning of years of severe ill health. My DHEA levels were high on a 24 hour salivary cortisol/DHEA test and I am also currently taking 5mg Cortef daily. What I would be interested to know is if it would be reasonable to increase the amount of Armour Thyroid I am taking. When I first started taking it I felt all brand new and had more energy, but this seems to have tailed off now and I am very tired and achy. My CFS Dr said that it might be helpful if I could push my FT4 level up towards the higher end of the range. My consultant endocrinologist says that my thyroid is fine and does not require any supplementation as my test results fall into the " Normal " range. She has also warned me of the dangers of supplementing when it is unnecessary and ordered my GP to stop prescribing Thyroxine for me. He has quietly not listened to the consultant, but that is as far as his helpfulness goes. Because I cannot tell which symptoms are CFS/FMS and which may be hypothyroidism, I am very wary of overdoing the Armour and causing worse problems. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks Loughlin http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ME-CFS-FMS_infections/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 Hi , 1 grain is a low dose. I just don't get these doctors who are so afraid of prescribing thyroid meds. So, I guess they feel we must suffer. You have to listen to your body! I have been on Armour for 3 months and was increasing perhaps too quickly. I missed some of the symptoms of over dosing because they can be similar to hypo symptoms (at least in my case). I was getting high anxiety, oily skin (more acne), and my heart rate and BP were all over the place (much higher than normal). I thought I was slipping into hypoland, and fast. I wasn't paying attention to the fact that I was increasing too quickly for ME. I decided to back down, and this made all the difference in the world. I believe that my optimal dose is probably still far off, but I need to allow my body to adjust at a much slower pace. Hey, I am learning! Thank goodness for your other doctor (what a gem). If I were you, I would take increases slowly. I had the same thing happening to me. I would get on a dose of Armour and feel better, then slowly creep back into hypo. This signified an increase for me, yet I got so excited about upping my doses, that I didn't wait for my body to adjust and give me the " go-ahead " for an increase. I think if you trust your body, you will find that you will be just fine with increasing your armour accordingly. By the way, what is PPH? And what is Borreliosis? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 and one thing my endoprat said to me..... if a " normal " takes thyroid supplements it won't actually harm them....their brain/thyroid adjusts..and can adjust back again...so I guess you won't lose anything by trying an increased dose..and may gain the world! Love, Fluffy > Hi Vicki > > Nice to see you over here. > > I would think that 1 grain of Armour should now be increased. It is usually recommended to increase by half a grain and stay at that amount for at least 3/4 weeks and see if that has made a difference. You may also benefit by taking this twice daily because the T3 only remains active in the body for around 6/8 hours. Do you find that you begin to slump a bit in the afternoon. Once you are settled on 2 grains and if you are still achy, add 25 mcgs of the magic T4 and see if that does the trick. BTW - along with the majority of others, your endoprat Insultant should be tied up in a plastic bag and dropped in the middle of the ocean. Welcome to the big band of self-helpers, you will get loads of really GOOD advice here. > > CFS/ME/hypothyroid symptoms DO overlap. Don't worry about the medication with Armour or T4 - there are many websites showing how thyroid treatment has and is helping CFS/ME/FM patients. Keep at it Vicki - you will get there. > > Why are you taking Cortef daily. If your DHEA levels are high, what were your cortisol levels. Are you just guessing that your adrenals are whacked out? > > 6.30 a.m. here - and woken up raring to go !! > > Luv - Sheila > > > > > > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 28/05/04 > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 > > By the way, what is PPH? And what is Borreliosis? Thanks! > Hi Thank you for your reassuring answer. It is most helpful to hear the experience of others. I will be aware of the need to move the dose up as my body decides. I think as I have gone hypo again now would be a good time. I will add an extra half a grain. I am interested by what you say re CFS becomming a common dx after the TSH test was introduced. But can it also explain the incidence of CFS in children? My lovely daughter also has CFS and Borreliosis. PPH is Postpartum Haemorrhage (sp) It is a common cause of Sheehan's Syndrome in the 3rd world, but our NHS do not want to recognise that one of their patients could have such a thing. Actually I'd love to hear from anyone who does have ackowledged Sheehan's Syndrome. Borreliosis is called Lyme disease in USA. Specifically infection by Borrelia Burgdorferi. As I am in UK I prefer to call it Borreliosis as it is infection by borrelia, but we don't know which species. Cheers Vicks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 > Hi Vicki > > Nice to see you over here. > > > Why are you taking Cortef daily. If your DHEA levels are high, what were your cortisol levels. Are you just guessing that your adrenals are whacked out? > Hi Sheila and others who replied to my post Thanks for advice and reassurances. Will add that extra half a grain and then go and drown my endo insultant in the Lancashire canal:-) I am taking the cortef in the belief that my adrenals are exhausted as I do not do stress!!! My cortisol levels were lowish but within the reference range. My DHEA goes high at night. Cheers Vicks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 > PPH is Postpartum Haemorrhage (sp) It is a common cause of Sheehan's > Syndrome in the 3rd world, but our NHS do not want to recognise that > one of their patients could have such a thing. Actually I'd love to > hear from anyone who does have ackowledged Sheehan's Syndrome. > Ah yes, I have read about postpartum hemorrhage. It can cause pituitary adenomas also, no? I used to have an amazing memory. I used to read medical stuff and books for fun. So now when I come across interesting medical stuff, I enjoy reading it, but can't remember much. ANyway, yes that is something to look into. Have you had your thyroid antibodies tested - just curious? As for the Lyme disease, that would certainly cause a who slew of hypo like symptoms. Did you get bitten by a tick? I guess so, huh? Boy that's a whole other ball game. I am sorry you are dealing with so much! I do hope that Armour will help with many of your symptoms and get you feeling much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 > > Hi Vicki > > > > Nice to see you over here. > > > > I would think that 1 grain of Armour should now be increased. It > is usually recommended to increase by half a grain and stay at that > amount for at least 3/4 weeks and see if that has made a > difference. You may also benefit by taking this twice daily because > the T3 only remains active in the body for around 6/8 hours. Do you > find that you begin to slump a bit in the afternoon. Once you are > settled on 2 grains and if you are still achy, add 25 mcgs of the > magic T4 and see if that does the trick. BTW - along with the > majority of others, your endoprat Insultant should be tied up in a > plastic bag and dropped in the middle of the ocean. Welcome to the > big band of self-helpers, you will get loads of really GOOD advice > here. > > > > CFS/ME/hypothyroid symptoms DO overlap. Don't worry about the > medication with Armour or T4 - there are many websites showing how > thyroid treatment has and is helping CFS/ME/FM patients. Keep at it > Vicki - you will get there. > > > > Why are you taking Cortef daily. If your DHEA levels are high, > what were your cortisol levels. Are you just guessing that your > adrenals are whacked out? > > > > 6.30 a.m. here - and woken up raring to go !! > > > > Luv - Sheila > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 28/05/04 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2004 Report Share Posted June 7, 2004 > Ah yes, > I have read about postpartum hemorrhage. It can cause pituitary > adenomas also, no? Yes indeed, the pituitary is damaged by the lack of blood/blood pressure. In my case they pumped 4 litres of blood products into me through 3 veins, but it was a very close call as I watched my blood pressure plummet and my pulse rate rise. > > Have you had your thyroid antibodies tested - just curious? I am supposed to have had the thyroid antibodies test, but do not know the results. Will follow that up thanks. >As for the > Lyme disease, that would certainly cause a who slew of hypo like > symptoms. I think the Lyme actually causes the thyroid to function poorly. Also poor thyroid function leads to poor immunity which is why the Lyme gets out of control. >Did you get bitten by a tick? I guess so, huh? Boy that's a > whole other ball game. I have multiple history of tick bites. Actually I have had strange symptoms from childhood including the inevitable dose of mono at 18 followed by PVF. My daughter also has Borreliosis/CFS and I am wondering what the incidence of hypothyroidism is in the very young. She has always been a bit tired and poorly. She went full blown CFS at 14 and is now 17 and a half, with no schooling for 4 years and an additional ASD Asperger's Syndrome diagnosis. we actually think the ASD is caused by the borreliosis. >I am sorry you are dealing with so much! I do > hope that Armour will help with many of your symptoms and get you > feeling much better. Well I took an extra half a grain of Armour Thyroid this morning and have spring cleaned the dining room. So that has been the right thing!!! Cheers Vicks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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