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Re: New to Armour thyroid

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Hi

I have been reading the posts on fine tuning with great interest.

I have just started taking Armour thyroid 1 grain in the morning.

Prior to that I was on T4 Thyroxine 50mcg daily for about 1 year.

It really did not make much difference to me.

My latest Thyroid tests were on 4th May 2004. Before I started

Armour thyroid.

The results look like this:

TSH 2.52 miu/L Ref. Range 0.35 - 5.00

FT4 15.1 pmol/L Ref. Range 11.00 - 23.00

At the time of this test I had not been taking the Thyroxine for a

couple of months. Surprisingly that is the highest FT4 result I

have ever had.

I have a diagnosis of CFS and FMS and am also currently being

treated for Borreliosis with a herbal remedy called Samento (TOA

Free Cat's Claw liquid extract).

In addition to this I fear I may actually have a mild case of

unrecognised Sheehan's Syndrome following a massive PPH after the

birth of my daughter in 1986. This signalled the beginning of

years of severe ill health.

My DHEA levels were high on a 24 hour salivary cortisol/DHEA test

and I am also currently taking 5mg Cortef daily.

What I would be interested to know is if it would be reasonable to

increase the amount of Armour Thyroid I am taking.

When I first started taking it I felt all brand new and had more

energy, but this seems to have tailed off now and I am very tired

and achy.

My CFS Dr said that it might be helpful if I could push my FT4

level up towards the higher end of the range. My consultant

endocrinologist says that my thyroid is fine and does not require

any supplementation as my test results fall into the " Normal "

range. She has also warned me of the dangers of supplementing when

it is unnecessary and ordered my GP to stop prescribing Thyroxine

for me. He has quietly not listened to the consultant, but that is

as far as his helpfulness goes.

Because I cannot tell which symptoms are CFS/FMS and which may be

hypothyroidism, I am very wary of overdoing the Armour and causing

worse problems.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Loughlin

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/ME-CFS-FMS_infections/

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Hi ,

1 grain is a low dose. I just don't get these doctors who are so

afraid of prescribing thyroid meds. So, I guess they feel we must

suffer. You have to listen to your body! I have been on Armour for 3

months and was increasing perhaps too quickly. I missed some of the

symptoms of over dosing because they can be similar to hypo symptoms

(at least in my case). I was getting high anxiety, oily skin (more

acne), and my heart rate and BP were all over the place (much higher

than normal). I thought I was slipping into hypoland, and fast. I

wasn't paying attention to the fact that I was increasing too quickly

for ME. I decided to back down, and this made all the difference in

the world. I believe that my optimal dose is probably still far off,

but I need to allow my body to adjust at a much slower pace. Hey, I am

learning!

Thank goodness for your other doctor (what a gem). If I were you, I

would take increases slowly. I had the same thing happening to me. I

would get on a dose of Armour and feel better, then slowly creep back

into hypo. This signified an increase for me, yet I got so excited

about upping my doses, that I didn't wait for my body to adjust and

give me the " go-ahead " for an increase. I think if you trust your

body, you will find that you will be just fine with increasing your

armour accordingly.

By the way, what is PPH? And what is Borreliosis? Thanks!

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and one thing my endoprat said to me.....

if a " normal " takes thyroid supplements it won't actually harm

them....their brain/thyroid adjusts..and can adjust back again...so

I guess you won't lose anything by trying an increased dose..and may

gain the world!

Love,

Fluffy

> Hi Vicki

>

> Nice to see you over here.

>

> I would think that 1 grain of Armour should now be increased. It

is usually recommended to increase by half a grain and stay at that

amount for at least 3/4 weeks and see if that has made a

difference. You may also benefit by taking this twice daily because

the T3 only remains active in the body for around 6/8 hours. Do you

find that you begin to slump a bit in the afternoon. Once you are

settled on 2 grains and if you are still achy, add 25 mcgs of the

magic T4 and see if that does the trick. BTW - along with the

majority of others, your endoprat Insultant should be tied up in a

plastic bag and dropped in the middle of the ocean. Welcome to the

big band of self-helpers, you will get loads of really GOOD advice

here.

>

> CFS/ME/hypothyroid symptoms DO overlap. Don't worry about the

medication with Armour or T4 - there are many websites showing how

thyroid treatment has and is helping CFS/ME/FM patients. Keep at it

Vicki - you will get there.

>

> Why are you taking Cortef daily. If your DHEA levels are high,

what were your cortisol levels. Are you just guessing that your

adrenals are whacked out?

>

> 6.30 a.m. here - and woken up raring to go !!

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 28/05/04

>

>

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>

> By the way, what is PPH? And what is Borreliosis? Thanks!

>

Hi

Thank you for your reassuring answer. It is most helpful to hear

the experience of others. I will be aware of the need to move the

dose up as my body decides.

I think as I have gone hypo again now would be a good time. I will

add an extra half a grain.

I am interested by what you say re CFS becomming a common dx after

the TSH test was introduced. But can it also explain the incidence

of CFS in children? My lovely daughter also has CFS and Borreliosis.

PPH is Postpartum Haemorrhage (sp) It is a common cause of Sheehan's

Syndrome in the 3rd world, but our NHS do not want to recognise that

one of their patients could have such a thing. Actually I'd love to

hear from anyone who does have ackowledged Sheehan's Syndrome.

Borreliosis is called Lyme disease in USA. Specifically infection

by Borrelia Burgdorferi. As I am in UK I prefer to call it

Borreliosis as it is infection by borrelia, but we don't know which

species.

Cheers Vicks

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> Hi Vicki

>

> Nice to see you over here.

>

>

> Why are you taking Cortef daily. If your DHEA levels are high,

what were your cortisol levels. Are you just guessing that your

adrenals are whacked out?

>

Hi Sheila and others who replied to my post

Thanks for advice and reassurances. Will add that extra half a

grain and then go and drown my endo insultant in the Lancashire

canal:-)

I am taking the cortef in the belief that my adrenals are exhausted

as I do not do stress!!!

My cortisol levels were lowish but within the reference range.

My DHEA goes high at night.

Cheers Vicks

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> PPH is Postpartum Haemorrhage (sp) It is a common cause of Sheehan's

> Syndrome in the 3rd world, but our NHS do not want to recognise that

> one of their patients could have such a thing. Actually I'd love to

> hear from anyone who does have ackowledged Sheehan's Syndrome.

>

Ah yes,

I have read about postpartum hemorrhage. It can cause pituitary

adenomas also, no? I used to have an amazing memory. I used to read

medical stuff and books for fun. So now when I come across interesting

medical stuff, I enjoy reading it, but can't remember much. ANyway,

yes that is something to look into.

Have you had your thyroid antibodies tested - just curious? As for the

Lyme disease, that would certainly cause a who slew of hypo like

symptoms. Did you get bitten by a tick? I guess so, huh? Boy that's a

whole other ball game. I am sorry you are dealing with so much! I do

hope that Armour will help with many of your symptoms and get you

feeling much better.

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> > Hi Vicki

> >

> > Nice to see you over here.

> >

> > I would think that 1 grain of Armour should now be increased.

It

> is usually recommended to increase by half a grain and stay at

that

> amount for at least 3/4 weeks and see if that has made a

> difference. You may also benefit by taking this twice daily

because

> the T3 only remains active in the body for around 6/8 hours. Do

you

> find that you begin to slump a bit in the afternoon. Once you are

> settled on 2 grains and if you are still achy, add 25 mcgs of the

> magic T4 and see if that does the trick. BTW - along with the

> majority of others, your endoprat Insultant should be tied up in a

> plastic bag and dropped in the middle of the ocean. Welcome to the

> big band of self-helpers, you will get loads of really GOOD advice

> here.

> >

> > CFS/ME/hypothyroid symptoms DO overlap. Don't worry about the

> medication with Armour or T4 - there are many websites showing how

> thyroid treatment has and is helping CFS/ME/FM patients. Keep at

it

> Vicki - you will get there.

> >

> > Why are you taking Cortef daily. If your DHEA levels are high,

> what were your cortisol levels. Are you just guessing that your

> adrenals are whacked out?

> >

> > 6.30 a.m. here - and woken up raring to go !!

> >

> > Luv - Sheila

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---

> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> > Version: 6.0.692 / Virus Database: 453 - Release Date: 28/05/04

> >

> >

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> Ah yes,

> I have read about postpartum hemorrhage. It can cause pituitary

> adenomas also, no?

Yes indeed, the pituitary is damaged by the lack of blood/blood

pressure. In my case they pumped 4 litres of blood products into me

through 3 veins, but it was a very close call as I watched my blood

pressure plummet and my pulse rate rise.

>

> Have you had your thyroid antibodies tested - just curious?

I am supposed to have had the thyroid antibodies test, but do not

know the results. Will follow that up thanks.

>As for the

> Lyme disease, that would certainly cause a who slew of hypo like

> symptoms.

I think the Lyme actually causes the thyroid to function poorly.

Also poor thyroid function leads to poor immunity which is why the

Lyme gets out of control.

>Did you get bitten by a tick? I guess so, huh? Boy that's a

> whole other ball game.

I have multiple history of tick bites.

Actually I have had strange symptoms from childhood including the

inevitable dose of mono at 18 followed by PVF.

My daughter also has Borreliosis/CFS and I am wondering what the

incidence of hypothyroidism is in the very young. She has always

been a bit tired and poorly. She went full blown CFS at 14 and is

now 17 and a half, with no schooling for 4 years and an additional

ASD Asperger's Syndrome diagnosis. we actually think the ASD is

caused by the borreliosis.

>I am sorry you are dealing with so much! I do

> hope that Armour will help with many of your symptoms and get you

> feeling much better.

Well I took an extra half a grain of Armour Thyroid this morning and

have spring cleaned the dining room. So that has been the right

thing!!!

Cheers Vicks

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