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For those of you who have argued that college degrees aren't important, I submit

the following excerpt from Daley vs. City of Houston (the Fire/EMS overtime pay

suit) located at: http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/Opinions/pub/00/00-20770-cv0.htm.

For convenience, court writing is in blue, highlights in red, my words in black.

Also, I've been following this series of cases for a *long* time - my dad's the

president of IAFF Local 58, Dallas FireFighter's Association, and they were

involved in several similar suits that reached the fifth circuit. So while I'm

not an attorney, and I don't work for Houston, I've sat up many nights

discussing the in's and out's of this at the station with my dad, his guys, etc.

I'm ashamed to say that in general, most EMS workers don't even have a clue as

to what the regulations are, much less the impact of the rulings.

Mike :)

29 C.F.R. § 541.3. This definition consists of two prongs: the education prong

and the discretion prong. If an employer proves that his employee satisfies both

prongs, the employee is not entitled to overtime compensation because he falls

within the Learned Professional exemption. The City fails to show that the Daley

Plaintiffs satisfy either prong of this exemption.

Here, the city is arguing that even if EMS workers don't meet the " fire safety

employee " exemption (commonly known as 207(k)), they meet the Learned

Professional exemption. The court makes a decision in this section as to

whether or not the Learned Professional exemption applies to EMS personnel.

First, the Daley Plaintiffs lack the educational background to satisfy the

education prong of the Learned Professional exemption. DOL regulations note that

" [t]he typical symbol of the [required] professional training and the best prima

facie evidence of its possession is, of course, the appropriate academic

degree. " 29 C.F.R. § 541.301(e)(1). City regulations do not require a college

degree to qualify as a paramedic or EMT. The Department requires EMTs to

complete only 200 hours of didactic training, clinical experience, and field

internship and requires paramedics to complete only 880 hours of specialized

training in didactic courses, clinical experience, and field internship. The

only court to directly address this issue held that requirements such as these

were insufficient to meet the education prong. See Quirk v. Balt. County, 895 F.

Supp. 773 (D.Md. 1995). In Quirk, the court ruled that, unlike nurses who must

complete three academic years of study in an accredited college plus a fourth

year of professional course work in a school of medical technology, paramedics,

the highest level EMT, did not have the necessary education to be " learned

professionals " under the regulations because they were only required to achieve

600 hours of classroom and field training. Quirk, 895 F. Supp. at 785.

Not having a college degree as a requirement pretty much disqualified EMS

personnel as " Learned Professionals. " Okay, we all knew that being a paramedic

never required a degree in Texas, and we successfully killed the degree

requirement for licensure. In doing that, we (EMS personnel, speficially

paramedics, in Texas) also killed our chance to at least be recognized under

labor laws as Learned Professionals. But read on... this gets better.

Although no Fifth Circuit case analyzes whether these EMT/paramedic requirements

satisfy the education prong of the Learned Professional exemption, we applied

the exemption in Owsley v. San Indep. Sch. Dist., 187 F.3d 521 (5th Cir.

1999). The court held that athletic trainers are " learned professionals " exempt

from the FLSA overtime compensation provisions. Id. at 527. The court found that

the trainers satisfied the education prong because they were required to

achieve, at a minimum, the following: (1) a bachelor's degree in any field; (2)

1800 hours apprenticeship over a three-year period; (3) completion of five

3-hour credit college courses in specific areas of study; and (4) a C.P.R. test.

Id. at 524-25. The Owsley panel analogized the trainers' educational training

and background to those of airline pilots who, while lacking the requirement of

a college degree, were required to " complete a course of instruction to learn

the regulations governing pilots, basic aerodynamic and flight principles, and

numerous airplane operations. " Id. at 525. The court cited nurses, accountants,

and " actuarial computants, " as other examples of " learned professionals. " Id. In

this case, the EMT/paramedic educational requirements are much less rigorous

than those required for athletic trainers. Moreover, the educational backgrounds

of EMS workers are not as extensive as those of any of the professionals cited

as examples by the panel in Owsley. For these reasons, we find that the Daley

Plaintiffs do not satisfy the education prong of the Learned Professional

exemption.

Athletic Traininers are Learned Professionals because they have a Bachelor's

Degree in *any field*. And to quote, " the educational backgrounds of EMS

workers are not as extensive as those of any of the professionals cited as

examples by the panel in Owsley. " It's not a comparative analysis, folks - not

that trainers, pilots, nurses or accountants are any more 'professional' (note

the *single* quote, not the double quote here). It's that they have a much more

definitive requirement for background education. Something which EMS

professionals in Texas have rejected time and time again. I'll be intererested

to see what people think about paramedic licensure now, and what people think

about degree requirements for paramedics.

What do you think? Personally, I recognize the need for EMT-B's and EMT-I's to

be able to become certified and provide care to those in need without the

requirement of a college degree. But I wholeheartedly support the requirement

of at least an AAS degree for *any* new paramedic...

Mike :)

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Crap. The list stripped my HTML and coloring. Okay, I'll highlight *my*

words with asterisks...

Mike :)

Is a college degree important?

***For those of you who have argued that college degrees aren't important, I

submit the following excerpt from Daley vs. City of Houston (the Fire/EMS

overtime pay suit) located at:

http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/Opinions/pub/00/00-20770-cv0.htm. For

convenience, court writing is in blue, highlights in red, my words in black.

Also, I've been following this series of cases for a *long* time - my dad's

the president of IAFF Local 58, Dallas FireFighter's Association, and they

were involved in several similar suits that reached the fifth circuit. So

while I'm not an attorney, and I don't work for Houston, I've sat up many

nights discussing the in's and out's of this at the station with my dad, his

guys, etc. I'm ashamed to say that in general, most EMS workers don't even

have a clue as to what the regulations are, much less the impact of the

rulings.

Mike :)***

29 C.F.R. § 541.3. This definition consists of two prongs: the education

prong and the discretion prong. If an employer proves that his employee

satisfies both prongs, the employee is not entitled to overtime compensation

because he falls within the Learned Professional exemption. The City fails

to show that the Daley Plaintiffs satisfy either prong of this exemption.

***Here, the city is arguing that even if EMS workers don't meet the " fire

safety employee " exemption (commonly known as 207(k)), they meet the Learned

Professional exemption. The court makes a decision in this section as to

whether or not the Learned Professional exemption applies to EMS

personnel.***

First, the Daley Plaintiffs lack the educational background to satisfy the

education prong of the Learned Professional exemption. DOL regulations note

that " [t]he typical symbol of the [required] professional training and the

best prima facie evidence of its possession is, of course, the appropriate

academic degree. " 29 C.F.R. § 541.301(e)(1). City regulations do not require

a college degree to qualify as a paramedic or EMT. The Department requires

EMTs to complete only 200 hours of didactic training, clinical experience,

and field internship and requires paramedics to complete only 880 hours of

specialized training in didactic courses, clinical experience, and field

internship. The only court to directly address this issue held that

requirements such as these were insufficient to meet the education prong.

See Quirk v. Balt. County, 895 F. Supp. 773 (D.Md. 1995). In Quirk, the

court ruled that, unlike nurses who must complete three academic years of

study in an accredited college plus a fourth year of professional course

work in a school of medical technology, paramedics, the highest level EMT,

did not have the necessary education to be " learned professionals " under the

regulations because they were only required to achieve 600 hours of

classroom and field training. Quirk, 895 F. Supp. at 785.

***Not having a college degree as a requirement pretty much disqualified EMS

personnel as " Learned Professionals. " Okay, we all knew that being a

paramedic never required a degree in Texas, and we successfully killed the

degree requirement for licensure. In doing that, we (EMS personnel,

speficially paramedics, in Texas) also killed our chance to at least be

recognized under labor laws as Learned Professionals. But read on... this

gets better.***

Although no Fifth Circuit case analyzes whether these EMT/paramedic

requirements satisfy the education prong of the Learned Professional

exemption, we applied the exemption in Owsley v. San Indep. Sch.

Dist., 187 F.3d 521 (5th Cir. 1999). The court held that athletic trainers

are " learned professionals " exempt from the FLSA overtime compensation

provisions. Id. at 527. The court found that the trainers satisfied the

education prong because they were required to achieve, at a minimum, the

following: (1) a bachelor's degree in any field; (2) 1800 hours

apprenticeship over a three-year period; (3) completion of five 3-hour

credit college courses in specific areas of study; and (4) a C.P.R. test.

Id. at 524-25. The Owsley panel analogized the trainers' educational

training and background to those of airline pilots who, while lacking the

requirement of a college degree, were required to " complete a course of

instruction to learn the regulations governing pilots, basic aerodynamic and

flight principles, and numerous airplane operations. " Id. at 525. The court

cited nurses, accountants, and " actuarial computants, " as other examples of

" learned professionals. " Id. In this case, the EMT/paramedic educational

requirements are much less rigorous than those required for athletic

trainers. Moreover, the educational backgrounds of EMS workers are not as

extensive as those of any of the professionals cited as examples by the

panel in Owsley. For these reasons, we find that the Daley Plaintiffs do not

satisfy the education prong of the Learned Professional exemption.

***Athletic Traininers are Learned Professionals because they have a

Bachelor's Degree in *any field*. And to quote, " the educational

backgrounds of EMS workers are not as extensive as those of any of the

professionals cited as examples by the panel in Owsley. " It's not a

comparative analysis, folks - not that trainers, pilots, nurses or

accountants are any more 'professional' (note the *single* quote, not the

double quote here). It's that they have a much more definitive requirement

for background education. Something which EMS professionals in Texas have

rejected time and time again. I'll be intererested to see what people think

about paramedic licensure now, and what people think about degree

requirements for paramedics.***

***What do you think? Personally, I recognize the need for EMT-B's and

EMT-I's to be able to become certified and provide care to those in need

without the requirement of a college degree. But I wholeheartedly support

the requirement of at least an AAS degree for *any* new paramedic...

Mike :)***

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Well said Mike; too bad it takes a legal opinion and not a proactive

stance on our part to endorse the need for education.

God, bless America

No evil can happen to a good man, either in life or after death.

Plato (428 BC - 348 BC), Dialogues, Apology

Larry RN NREMTP

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Ok I'll bite..

FYI My degree is health related (although in animals/not people) and I

completed many hours of physiology, bichem, A-P, genetics,

pharmacology etc on the road to my Master of Science in Reproductive

Physiology (the same field of AI, frozen zoos and cloning).

That said, after I completed all my requesite college degrees, several

things occurred.

1. My debt load from school loans far exceeded my ability to pay them

on the pay EMS offered. This is a factor to be considered in this

arguement. It did not benefit me monetarily at all although it helped

in the understanding of the physical process of disease and trauma.

Now that we have so much more of a linkage (if you will) via

bioterrorism and animal diseases, my degree is probably more relevant

than I ever thought it would be.

2. Even though I had both a B.S. and M.S., and even though the school

district in Presidio contacted me (versus the other way around) to be

their summer school nurse, I was still only recognized and paid

according to an LVN standard, which I considered to be a slap in the

face given my experience as an paramedic (almost a decade) and my

degree. The same thing occured in the RHC and in TDH public health

office..basically although we had (and still have) and acute shortage

of healthcare providers (RN's included), the paramedics in these rural

areas are treated poorly. When one considers that only the EMS

providers had ever successfully attained ACLS, PALS, BTLS, and other

" bells and whistles " courses for a period of 8 of those years (things

changed some later), this makes it all the more bizarre. So what

exactly are the hoops that must be jumped through for " professional

recognition " and when exactly is that supposed to come to pass?

3. All things considered, I am glad I made the necessary sacrifices

for my degree; Certainly I understood a lot on the phyiological and

biochemical level that I did not before going to school. Unfortunately

I am now out of the field, so did it really benefit me as a paramedic

or did it just open a door I could leave through? Until things change

in Texas EMS I am afraid it will be the latter answer.

It is easy to guestimate the theoritical outcome of the changes we are

trying to make. I agree that paramedics should have a degree..we are

handling way to much responsibility without adequate understanding

without the prolonged immersion in basic phyiology and biochemistry.

EMS has been made idiot resistant by alot of the prepackaged meds in

the convient dosages, but things still get screwed up a lot. And

frankly, there needs to be a stronger weeding process for

paramedics..we all know those who scare us with their ability to

misread a situation..how did they make it through in the first place

and how do you stop them once they are out there. One misstep from

them and it is makes headlines, which overshadows the hundreds of sure

steps that those around them are making.

just a nickel deposit.

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