RE: Intro

June 7, 2004

In a message dated 6/7/2004 3:44:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,

cubfan23@... writes:

> Anyone here experienced vaso-vagal? I experienced these fainting

> experiences when I was very young and just found

This caught my interest...i used to faint all the time when i was young and

on up into my 20s. I finally learned how to tell when I was going to

faint...and was able to stop myself many times. I've never thought much about

it.

What causes this " vasovagal " ?

Welcome by the way....

Cindi

June 7, 2004

In a message dated 6/7/2004 4:59:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jreid69@... writes:

>

> I have read that it is due to the blood pressure not being able to keep up

> with a child's growth. Can't get the blood to the head quick enough upon

> standing and as you become adult it goes away.

>

thanks jen...guess I'm an adult now...it doesn't happen much anymore.

cindi

June 7, 2004

I have read that it is due to the blood pressure not being able to keep up

with a child's growth. Can't get the blood to the head quick enough upon

standing and as you become adult it goes away.

Several people in my family have suffered from it.

Jen

This caught my interest...i used to faint all the time when i was young and

on up into my 20s. I finally learned how to tell when I was going to

faint...and was able to stop myself many times. I've never thought much

about it.

What causes this " vasovagal " ?

Welcome by the way....

Cindi

June 7, 2004

Hi, Cindi!

Thanks for the welcome! This vaso-vagal is really strange, I think. I've been

reading about

it on a forum and it's been fascinating. Some people began with it as babies.

Some outgrow

it.

Technically there seems to be a low blood volume. Some stress will provoke the

episode.

For some people it's the sight of blood or needles. For some it's pain of some

sort. For others

it's dehydration or overheating. Blood congregates in the lower extremities

forcing blood

from the brain, therefore the fainting. Some people have heart problems with it

and others

don't. Some seem to have seizures. Like I said it's strange!

My last episode was my wedding day at age 25. I always wondered what it was!

in Va.

In a message dated 6/7/2004 3:44:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,

cubfan23@... writes:

> Anyone here experienced vaso-vagal? I experienced these fainting

> experiences when I was very young and just found

This caught my interest...i used to faint all the time when i was young and

on up into my 20s. I finally learned how to tell when I was going to

faint...and was able to stop myself many times. I've never thought much about

it.

What causes this " vasovagal " ?

Welcome by the way....

Cindi

June 7, 2004

Hi, Jen,

That makes sense too!

My sister-in-law who has had brain surgery several times so that she no longer

has a pituitary gland.

She has to take all her hormones. She can't tolerate alot of stress now. But

especially heat. When

she becomes overheated, she has vaso-vagal episodes. I think she needs to take

extra cortisol for

extra stress like this. She's 54 years old now. I wonder how often the adrenals

are involved in

this problem.

in Va.

I have read that it is due to the blood pressure not being able to keep up

with a child's growth. Can't get the blood to the head quick enough upon

standing and as you become adult it goes away.

Several people in my family have suffered from it.

Jen

June 7, 2004

Hi in VA!! This is Janie in CO. One thing I want to ask: how

much Armour are you on? Have you had your free T3 tested and what is

it? A less-than-optimal free T3 can contribute to that depression

you speak of.

Also, I too am on testosterone--1 mg. a day via a gel. It really

works!!

Janie

> Hi,

> I thought I should sort of introduce myself. I'm 54, have a great

husband and 2 grown sons, & 7 birds.:>) My first diagnosis was

hypothyroidism at age 25. I know I wasn't treated adequately for at

least 15 years. Finally a doctor increased the Synthroid to get the

TSH to the bottom of the range. Then I began to be able to sweat, my

dry skin and hair became oily and I stopped being cold. Then four

years ago I persuaded the doctors to let me switch to Armour. This

gave me more improvements.

June 8, 2004

Ahh, another bird lady. :-) I am 49 and was hyperT/Graves since dignosed in

Nov/Dec 2001. I became very sick. I was then made to be sicker by an Endo who

had no clue that my atd's (anti thyroid drugs) should have been decreased

starting at around 6-8 weeks. I was made to go into HypoHell and it was a

nightmare I'll never forget. At least when I was hyperT, I could still do some

things, but my sails just lost wind easily and I couldn't hold up to all I

needed to do. I got to the point where I had to take it 15 mintues at a time.

When I was seriously sick with hypoT from too much Methimazole, I reached a

point where if I went to the store to buy groceries, the shopping cart was how I

held myself up, leaning into it. If I had to unload all the groceries on my

own, I sounded like I was about to take my last breath. I would have to drag

myself up out of bed to go to work, struggled to feed and water my birds (didn't

have enuff energy to even spend time with any of my African greys or my quaker

parrots. Finally had to have son and hubby feed and water them most of the

time. I was just too fatigued to move unless I was on my way to work, but the

back pain I felt was excruciating.

I finally weaned off the anti thyroid drugs after almost two years on a lower

dose and now have many hypoT symptoms. I'm also a bit of a stinker when I get

to the dr's office. I have learned in all this that too much is just as bad as

not enuff, and after recognizing all the signs that miraculously disappear after

my meds are corrected......I can actually function like a human being. My dr's

love to argue that this pain is in my head, but actually they can't pull that

garbage with me anymore. I was almost into having carpal tunnel surgery but

funny thing about not having the right kind of meds in the system. It means

your cells are lacking and nothing is functioning right. I was told that my

symptoms weren't enuff to warrant me being put on anti thyroid meds, because my

labs were in the 'normal' range, but I've learned in all this with 3 dr's in the

past 3 yrs that they aren't hypoT or hyperT and they only learned what they were

taught, which in my book is usually wrong.

I gained weight with hyperT/Graves, which is not always the norm.....but many of

us do. I have to get up whether I want to or not, because my employer expects

me to be there. I just thank God everyday that my bosses wife has had thyroid

cancer so he's familiar with how badly it can affect somebody who's going

through a rough time. If not, I'd surely have been tossed out the door by now.

:-) I started self dosing with Armour 1 grain twice in the am (I try to fall

asleep after lunch) so I added another 1 grain pill in the early afternoon. My

constipation went away (yippie!!!!) and my left hand doesn't fall alseep these

days. I've not really lost any weight but most days I can function and feel

great. I owe it all to Armour Thyroid and I refuse to give it up. :-)

SandyE~Houston

Intro

Hi,

I thought I should sort of introduce myself. I'm 54, have a great husband and

2 grown sons, & 7 birds.:>) My first diagnosis was hypothyroidism at age 25. I

know I wasn't treated adequately for at least 15 years. Finally a doctor

increased the Synthroid to get the TSH to the bottom of the range. Then I began

to be able to sweat, my dry skin and hair became oily and I stopped being cold.

Then four years ago I persuaded the doctors to let me switch to Armour. This

gave me more improvements. Six years after the hypothyroidism diagnosis I

experienced an extremely stressful time when my father was ill and died and my

boys were very young. I became extremely depressed and burned out. I believe my

adrenals were exhausted but they were never tested back then. But a doctor did

tell me what I was experiencing was like shell shock that men have when they

return from war. I've been on antidepressants ever since. This was 1981. In

1994, I had a sleep study done and was diagnosed with narcolepsy. Then in 95, I

developed fibromyalgia and began perimenopause. This past Sept., I was diagnosed

with delayed sleep phase syndrome and ADD inattentive type. The most

debilitating symptom of the ADD, was thought to be from the depression all these

years. I've been unable to function. Getting housework done is impossible. I

began to have problems with libido so I asked my doctor to test my testosterone.

It tested low so I was given shots. At the same time, I had found a doctor who

let me try Cortef for the adrenals. After 4 testosterone shots, I was

functioning normally! This lasted until the doctor made me come off the Cortef.

The depression returned with a vengeance and the inability to function returned.

Being treated for the ADD has helped a little. Currently I'm waiting for saliva

testing results so I can switch to natural HRT, hoping this will help.

I'd love to talk with anyone with similar experiences!

Glad to be with you.

in Va.

PS Anyone here experienced vaso-vagal? I experienced these fainting

experiences when I was very young and just found

out what they call it.

June 8, 2004

In a message dated 6/8/2004 12:54:16 AM Eastern Standard Time,

cubfan23@... writes:

> . Some stress will provoke the episode.

> For some people it's the sight of blood or needles

This is really interesting to me. I'm pretty sure I've outgrown this now

(I'm 48)...but when younger I would faint if they were going to give me a shot

or

take blood. Even now, I always warn the nurses about it. And I remember the

first time my mom was showing me how to shave my underarms...and I fainted.

And sometimes I could just be walking and faint. I did this in a store one

time and scared lots of folks. It was a strange thing...and so I'm glad to know

there's a reason I did this.

Cindi

June 8, 2004

The most debilitating symptom of the ADD, was thought to be from the

depression all these years. I've been unable to function. Getting housework

done is impossible. I began to have problems with libido so I asked my

doctor to test my testosterone. It tested low so I was given shots. At the

same time, I had found a doctor who let me try Cortef for the adrenals.

After 4 testosterone shots, I was functioning normally! This lasted until

the doctor made me come off the Cortef

,

Welcome!

Why did the doctor take you off cortef when It was working so well? Was it a

low dose?

What did it help besides the depression?

You sound so much like me it is crazy! I am only on Armour now, but

interested in the Cortef. I don't understand exactly what it helps with

except for the adrenal connection.

nne

June 8, 2004

I can't wait for my constipation to go away!! LOL I've heard too much can give

you diahrea - I can't imagine that ever happening with me! I take several stool

softeners/night, and still only go to the bathroom about once a week. I've also

taken that IBS drug for women - talk about pains!!!

Cris

Re: Intro

Ahh, another bird lady. :-) I am 49 and was hyperT/Graves since dignosed in

Nov/Dec 2001. I became very sick. I was then made to be sicker by an Endo who

had no clue that my atd's (anti thyroid drugs) should have been decreased

starting at around 6-8 weeks. I was made to go into HypoHell and it was a

June 8, 2004

Is your testosterone gel a prescription? or where do you get it?

Thx!

cris

Re: Intro

Hi in VA!! This is Janie in CO. One thing I want to ask: how

much Armour are you on? Have you had your free T3 tested and what is

it? A less-than-optimal free T3 can contribute to that depression

you speak of.

Also, I too am on testosterone--1 mg. a day via a gel. It really

works!!

Janie

>

June 8, 2004

How much water do you drink a day? I would die if I only went once a week..

ouch!

Re: Intro

> I can't wait for my constipation to go away!! LOL I've heard too much can

give

> you diahrea - I can't imagine that ever happening with me! I take several

stool

> softeners/night, and still only go to the bathroom about once a week. I've

also

> taken that IBS drug for women - talk about pains!!!

> Cris

June 8, 2004

In a message dated 6/8/2004 8:26:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,

cubfan23@... writes:

>

> It really is rassuring to find out why, isn't it? Even though we haven't

> experienced it in years. I just can't

> believe that I've never remembered to ask a doctor about it. But it made me

> feel good too to find out that there was a

> reason for it and that it had a name.

>

Me too..in fact I think i might research it a bit. I used to also do it if I

had sudden stress...would just keel over. And I also used to always do it

the first day of my period when I was in high school. scared my parents

something awful with just standing and dropping.

cindi

June 8, 2004

I know...ouch is a good word. I drink in spurts - this week, I've not been

drinking enough. I don't drink the 10 glasses a day, by any means, but I almost

always have a glass of water in front of me - or sometimes, iced T.

occasionally, pop/aka soda aka pepsi...- with sugar...no nutrasweet for me. I

should be sure to start drinking more again. I start to feel like I'm floating!!

LOL

I've always had problems but the past few years have been worse than ever. and

I've tried lots of different 'solutions' I started on the stool softeners last

year after my surgery. they told me they wouldn't hurt me. I was thinking my

body was getting used to them because even with one, I wasn't going often

enough. even though 'they' told me that wouldn't happen with those. I need to

get back to eating my ground up flax seed again. I think that helped a little

bit. hubby says to just go - yeah, right!!

Cris

Re: Intro

June 8, 2004

Cindi,

It really is rassuring to find out why, isn't it? Even though we haven't

experienced it in years. I just can't

believe that I've never remembered to ask a doctor about it. But it made me feel

good too to find out that there was a

reason for it and that it had a name.

in Va.

> . Some stress will provoke the episode.

> For some people it's the sight of blood or needles

This is really interesting to me. I'm pretty sure I've outgrown this now

(I'm 48)...but when younger I would faint if they were going to give me a shot

or

take blood. Even now, I always warn the nurses about it. And I remember the

first time my mom was showing me how to shave my underarms...and I fainted.

And sometimes I could just be walking and faint. I did this in a store one

time and scared lots of folks. It was a strange thing...and so I'm glad to know

there's a reason I did this.

Cindi

June 8, 2004

Hi nne,

I am having trouble with my keyboard with certain letters and punctuation, but I

want to respond to you.

(Hmmm, seems to be working better now.) Anyway, I've been dealing with this for

23 years. Always

thought the inability to function was due to depression. However, when I was

diagnosed with ADD

inattentive type, I found out it was the culprit. I read on a forum about the

phenomena of " paralysis

of will " . The more I read, I read there's a tie in with stress and ADD. I'd

never had any symptoms of

ADD before really. Evidently my period of extreme stress activated the ADD

inattentive type. (Believe me,

there's NO hyperactivity involved. LOL) I also read about a study done that

found that children with ADD are

low in cortisol in the brain. Of course, all my health problems

(hypothyroidism, depression,

narcolepsy, menopause, delayed sleep phase syndrome, fibromyalgia) contribute to

fatigue! I did alot of

reading including Dr. Jefferies' " Safe Uses of Cortisol " , expensive paperback,

but extremely helpful. He

encourages physiological dosages of Cortef rather than pharmacological. I was

taking 20 mg. a day. I

found a doctor who would prescribe Cortef. He ran salivary tests that showed I

was at the low end of the

normal range in the morning when it's supposed to be the highest. Also I had had

my endo do an ACTH

stim test, where they draw blood for a baseline and then ACTH hormone is

injected. Then you wait a half

hour or hour and blood is drawn again to see if the adrenals are putting out

enough cortisol in response.

According to my doctor and the lab, if either number is about 18, it's normal.

According to Dr. Jefferies,

the number should at least double and most normal people will triple. My

baseline was 15.7 and it went

to 22.2. THe doctor allowed me to take the Cortef but didn't want me to

increase it for stress like Dr.

Jefferies says! During this time my mother became very ill and passed away. I

followed Dr. Jefferies'

protocol anyway and it really helped me get through that time. I was on the

Cortef for 9 months. I think

the doctor just got very nervous. He'd probably been talking to other doctors.

Who knows? But doctors are

very scared of cortisol. This is considered a low dose. I could have lowered it.

But he was in a hurry for

me to get off of it! He wasn't an endo. He was in physical medicine.

The first thing the Cortef helped was my sleep. I was able to sleep a normal

schedule, sleep through the

night and awaken to an alarm. So it helped the delayed sleep phase syndrome

dramatically. When

testosterone was added, because I was low in it, by the fourth shot, I was able

to overcome the " paralysis

of will " of the ADD inattentive type. I felt so normal! I was able to function

so well that I was able to

declutter, cook meals, prepared for Christmas with ease, and go from one chore

to another without

having to sit down. It was so amazing! I hadn't been able to do all of this for

years. And I was probably

functioning better than any time in my life, really.

I don't know if I answered your question or not. If you could read Dr.

Jefferies' book, it would give you

alot of insight. However, he doesn't have anything in there about ADD.

in Va.

The most debilitating symptom of the ADD, was thought to be from the

depression all these years. I've been unable to function. Getting housework

done is impossible. I began to have problems with libido so I asked my

doctor to test my testosterone. It tested low so I was given shots. At the

same time, I had found a doctor who let me try Cortef for the adrenals.

After 4 testosterone shots, I was functioning normally! This lasted until

the doctor made me come off the Cortef

,

Welcome!

Why did the doctor take you off cortef when It was working so well? Was it a

low dose?

What did it help besides the depression?

You sound so much like me it is crazy! I am only on Armour now, but

interested in the Cortef. I don't understand exactly what it helps with

except for the adrenal connection.

nne

June 8, 2004

Thank you so much ,

I have just received Jefferies book in the mail from Amazon yesterday. I

have not read it yet. I also have a good doc appointment scheduled for next

month (6 week wait) and I have some hydrocortisone on order from Mexico, if

all that fails.

Thank you again, you sound just like me, and I will update you, as I find

solutions. (my keyboard and computer are goofing up too!)

nne

_____

From:

Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 9:55 PM

To: NaturalThyroidHormones

Subject: Re: Intro

* Hi nne,

I am having trouble with my keyboard with certain letters and punctuation,

but I want to respond to you.

(Hmmm, seems to be working better now.) Anyway, I've been dealing with this

for 23 years. Always

thought the inability to function was due to depression. However, when I was

diagnosed with ADD

inattentive type, I found out it was the culprit. I read on a forum about

the phenomena of " paralysis

of will " . The more I read, I read there's a tie in with stress and ADD. I'd

never had any symptoms of

ADD before really. Evidently my period of extreme stress activated the ADD

inattentive type. (Believe me,

there's NO hyperactivity involved. LOL) I also read about a study done that

found that children with ADD are

low in cortisol in the brain. Of course, all my health problems

(hypothyroidism, depression,

narcolepsy, menopause, delayed sleep phase syndrome, fibromyalgia)

contribute to fatigue! I did alot of

reading including Dr. Jefferies' " Safe Uses of Cortisol " , expensive

paperback, but extremely helpful. He

encourages physiological dosages of Cortef rather than pharmacological. I

was taking 20 mg. a day. I

found a doctor who would prescribe Cortef. He ran salivary tests that showed

I was at the low end of the

normal range in the morning when it's supposed to be the highest. Also I had

had my endo do an ACTH

stim test, where they draw blood for a baseline and then ACTH hormone is

injected. Then you wait a half

hour or hour and blood is drawn again to see if the adrenals are putting out

enough cortisol in response.

According to my doctor and the lab, if either number is about 18, it's

normal. According to Dr. Jefferies,

the number should at least double and most normal people will triple. My

baseline was 15.7 and it went

to 22.2. THe doctor allowed me to take the Cortef but didn't want me to

increase it for stress like Dr.

Jefferies says! During this time my mother became very ill and passed away.

I followed Dr. Jefferies'

protocol anyway and it really helped me get through that time. I was on the

Cortef for 9 months. I think

the doctor just got very nervous. He'd probably been talking to other

doctors. Who knows? But doctors are

very scared of cortisol. This is considered a low dose. I could have lowered

it. But he was in a hurry for

me to get off of it! He wasn't an endo. He was in physical medicine.

The first thing the Cortef helped was my sleep. I was able to sleep a normal

schedule, sleep through the

night and awaken to an alarm. So it helped the delayed sleep phase syndrome

dramatically. When

testosterone was added, because I was low in it, by the fourth shot, I was

able to overcome the " paralysis

of will " of the ADD inattentive type. I felt so normal! I was able to

function so well that I was able to

declutter, cook meals, prepared for Christmas with ease, and go from one

chore to another without

having to sit down. It was so amazing! I hadn't been able to do all of this

for years. And I was probably

functioning better than any time in my life, really.

I don't know if I answered your question or not. If you could read Dr.

Jefferies' book, it would give you

alot of insight. However, he doesn't have anything in there about ADD.

in Va.

.

June 8, 2004

----- HI, Sandy,

You have a fascinating story! I don't blame you for not giving up the Armour!

I feel the same way!

I've heard some women are losing weight with natural progesterone cream. I

don't know how old you are. But as we get older our estrogen diminishes but our

progesterone diminishes faster. And there's many symptoms that go with this

estrogen dominance. Gaining weight is one of them. I can send you some info, if

you're interested.

How many birds do you have? Wow, African greys and quakers. I only have

cockatiels and one lovebird. But I love all birds. Birds are my favorite people!

LOL I bet you have some talkers!

Take care.