Guest guest Posted February 11, 2000 Report Share Posted February 11, 2000 An interesting little tidbit gun advocates aren't likely to mention is that at the time the second amendment was written very few people actually owned guns. In fact, a whole hell of a lot of people were prohibited from owning them. This included anybody who didn't own property or who wasn't protestant. Pete Watts wrote: > > Just couldnt resist this one from the same Nazi source: > > ADOLF HITLER'S GUN CONTROL > > Adolf Hitler has been the favorite whipping boy of the Jewish and non-Jewish neo-liberal publicists alike for so long now that > many persons have, in all innocence, attributed to him a number of sins of which he was absolutely blameless. > > One of these imaginary sins was the alleged dispossession of the German civilian population of firearms. American opponents of > gun control legislation are in the unfortunate habit of describing proposed firearms laws as " Hitlerian " and issuing grim warnings > that " it happened in Germany, and it can happen here, " referring of course to their predictions that gun control advocates are > aiming at the total confiscation of firearms from U. S. citizens. > > Well, they are undoubtedly right about what the anti-gun people in Washington have in mind, but they are dead wrong about Hitler > and Germany. Under Hitler, German citizens were completely free to own and bear firearms, both long guns and pistols. > > Hitler's government recognized the basic rights of self-defense of German citizens and encouraged cvilian marksmanship and sport > shooting. Hitler himself was an expert pistol shot. > > There were no restrictions or licensing requirements at all for long guns and ammunition, and only minimal licensing requirements > for handguns–one could not, for example, be a convicted felon in National Socialist Germany and own a handgun legally. These > loose gun laws were in force in Germany until 1945, when the Allies and the Soviets occupied the country. After that, German > civilians in the eastern occupation zone were summarily shot by Communists (and Allies) if they were found in possession of so > much as a single rifle cartridge. > > Democrat Willie Brandt (real name Herbert Frahm, a former Communist Party member himself), introduced such stiff firearms > restrictions in the former West Germany that it has become virtually impossible for a German civilian to purchase any sort of > firearm unless he belongs to a government sanctioned club. The penalty for possession of an unregistered gun in today's " free and > democratic " Germany is five years in prison. So much for the Allies' stated goal of " saving democracy " in Germany. > > A good general rule is this: governments with strong popular backing do not seek to disarm their citizens, and governments which > do take guns from their own people, regardless of the pretext they use, are afraid of the armed opposition of their own citizens. > > Hitler's government was an extraordinarily popular one. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com: > http://click./1/1381/1/_/4324/_/950250847/ > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault > -- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2000 Report Share Posted February 11, 2000 This reminds me, I asked all you British blokes to look into acquiring a Sten gun for my mopping-up operation around here, and I haven't heard back from a single one of your lot! Surely you don't expect me to do the whole job with my dad's old Enfield! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2000 Report Share Posted February 11, 2000 I don't believe that Hitler's Germany was all that popular with the Jewish citizens living there at the time Pete, and I believe (although I have to check on this to make sure) that the Jews were not allowed to own or use firearms during the Hitler regime. Which of course made them vulnerable. etc. --- Pete Watts wrote: > > Just couldnt resist this one from the same Nazi > source: > > > ADOLF HITLER'S GUN CONTROL > > Adolf Hitler has been the favorite whipping boy of > the Jewish and non-Jewish neo-liberal publicists > alike for so long now that > many persons have, in all innocence, attributed to > him a number of sins of which he was absolutely > blameless. > > One of these imaginary sins was the alleged > dispossession of the German civilian population of > firearms. American opponents of > gun control legislation are in the unfortunate habit > of describing proposed firearms laws as " Hitlerian " > and issuing grim warnings > that " it happened in Germany, and it can happen > here, " referring of course to their predictions that > gun control advocates are > aiming at the total confiscation of firearms from U. > S. citizens. > > Well, they are undoubtedly right about what the > anti-gun people in Washington have in mind, but they > are dead wrong about Hitler > and Germany. Under Hitler, German citizens were > completely free to own and bear firearms, both long > guns and pistols. > > Hitler's government recognized the basic rights of > self-defense of German citizens and encouraged > cvilian marksmanship and sport > shooting. Hitler himself was an expert pistol shot. > > There were no restrictions or licensing requirements > at all for long guns and ammunition, and only > minimal licensing requirements > for handguns–one could not, for example, be a > convicted felon in National Socialist Germany and > own a handgun legally. These > loose gun laws were in force in Germany until 1945, > when the Allies and the Soviets occupied the > country. After that, German > civilians in the eastern occupation zone were > summarily shot by Communists (and Allies) if they > were found in possession of so > much as a single rifle cartridge. > > Democrat Willie Brandt (real name Herbert Frahm, a > former Communist Party member himself), introduced > such stiff firearms > restrictions in the former West Germany that it has > become virtually impossible for a German civilian to > purchase any sort of > firearm unless he belongs to a government sanctioned > club. The penalty for possession of an unregistered > gun in today's " free and > democratic " Germany is five years in prison. So much > for the Allies' stated goal of " saving democracy " in > Germany. > > A good general rule is this: governments with strong > popular backing do not seek to disarm their > citizens, and governments which > do take guns from their own people, regardless of > the pretext they use, are afraid of the armed > opposition of their own citizens. > > Hitler's government was an extraordinarily popular > one. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > You have a voice mail message waiting for you at > iHello.com: > http://click./1/1381/1/_/4324/_/950250847/ > > -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document > Vault > -- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1 > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2000 Report Share Posted February 15, 2000 I hope you arent under the impression that I automatically *agree* with anything this email said, are you Mike? (Though I have to admit that my gf called me a Nazi this evening!) I fwded it mostly to show that opponents of gun control have some interesting bedfellows, and a gun-owning society has an interesting prototype. As to the actual claims made by the post, well eventually in Nazi Germany Jews werent allowed the right to life, so it makes the right to own a firearm rather superfluous. However, I see no reason to believe that when they initially came to power the Nazis immediately enacted a specific disarmament of Jews - certainly I have never seen any historical account, documentary or fictional, refer to one. Probably such an enactment did come eventually, but by that time wholesale human rights violations will probably already have been in full swing - and doubtless German anti-semites took full advantage of their own gun-owning rights in the process of violating them. As to the popularity of the Nazis, obviously they wont have been popular with Jews, but then almost no Government is popular with everybody, and for a Party to capture even 50% of total votes cast, let alone of the total adult population, is extremely rare; there is nothing remarkable about the fact that the Nazis never achieved this. They did however achieve the largest single block vote and hence were, initially, popularly elected by a democratic process. Nazi economic policy, though ultimately hopelessly short-termist, did solve the immediate problem of unemployment, the initial recapture of the Sudetenland will have been immensely popular, and former German territory in Poland; and if the Nazis had bothered with democracy I expect they would have been immensely supported up until the war began to turn against them. To describe them as " extraordinarily popular " up until this time I would say is probably accurate. I dont know abt the US, but the UK didnt bother with an election either until the war was over, whereupon the electorate promptly ousted Churchill, the man who had led them to victory. Pete mike kraemer wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12496 > I don't believe that Hitler's Germany was all that > popular with the Jewish citizens living there at the > time Pete, and I believe (although I have to check on > this to make sure) that the Jews were not allowed to > own or use firearms during the Hitler regime. Which of > course made them vulnerable. etc. > > --- Pete Watts wrote: > > > > Just couldnt resist this one from the same Nazi > > source: > > > > > > ADOLF HITLER'S GUN CONTROL > > > > Adolf Hitler has been the favorite whipping boy of > > the Jewish and non-Jewish neo-liberal publicists > > alike for so long now that > > many persons have, in all innocence, attributed to > > him a number of sins of which he was absolutely > > blameless. > > > > One of these imaginary sins was the alleged > > dispossession of the German civilian population of > > firearms. American opponents of > > gun control legislation are in the unfortunate habit > > of describing proposed firearms laws as " Hitlerian " > > and issuing grim warnings > > that " it happened in Germany, and it can happen > > here, " referring of course to their predictions that > > gun control advocates are > > aiming at the total confiscation of firearms from U. > > S. citizens. > > > > Well, they are undoubtedly right about what the > > anti-gun people in Washington have in mind, but they > > are dead wrong about Hitler > > and Germany. Under Hitler, German citizens were > > completely free to own and bear firearms, both long > > guns and pistols. > > > > Hitler's government recognized the basic rights of > > self-defense of German citizens and encouraged > > cvilian marksmanship and sport > > shooting. Hitler himself was an expert pistol shot. > > > > There were no restrictions or licensing requirements > > at all for long guns and ammunition, and only > > minimal licensing requirements > > for handguns–one could not, for example, be a > > convicted felon in National Socialist Germany and > > own a handgun legally. These > > loose gun laws were in force in Germany until 1945, > > when the Allies and the Soviets occupied the > > country. After that, German > > civilians in the eastern occupation zone were > > summarily shot by Communists (and Allies) if they > > were found in possession of so > > much as a single rifle cartridge. > > > > Democrat Willie Brandt (real name Herbert Frahm, a > > former Communist Party member himself), introduced > > such stiff firearms > > restrictions in the former West Germany that it has > > become virtually impossible for a German civilian to > > purchase any sort of > > firearm unless he belongs to a government sanctioned > > club. The penalty for possession of an unregistered > > gun in today's " free and > > democratic " Germany is five years in prison. So much > > for the Allies' stated goal of " saving democracy " in > > Germany. > > > > A good general rule is this: governments with strong > > popular backing do not seek to disarm their > > citizens, and governments which > > do take guns from their own people, regardless of > > the pretext they use, are afraid of the armed > > opposition of their own citizens. > > > > Hitler's government was an extraordinarily popular > > one. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2000 Report Share Posted February 16, 2000 Hi Pete Well I don't think that this is the best forum to discuss political issues, so I apologize if I rubbed you the wrong way. I think that it is best for me to refrain from getting into political talk here. Sincerely Mike --- Pete Watts wrote: > > I hope you arent under the impression that I > automatically *agree* with > anything this email said, are you Mike? (Though I > have to admit that > my gf called me a Nazi this evening!) I fwded it > mostly to show that > opponents of gun control have some interesting > bedfellows, and a > gun-owning society has an interesting prototype. > > As to the actual claims made by the post, well > eventually in Nazi > Germany Jews werent allowed the right to life, so it > makes the right to > own a firearm rather superfluous. However, I see no > reason to believe > that when they initially came to power the Nazis > immediately enacted a > specific disarmament of Jews - certainly I have > never seen any > historical account, documentary or fictional, refer > to one. Probably > such an enactment did come eventually, but by that > time wholesale human > rights violations will probably already have been in > full swing - and > doubtless German anti-semites took full advantage of > their own > gun-owning rights in the process of violating them. > > As to the popularity of the Nazis, obviously they > wont have been > popular with Jews, but then almost no Government is > popular with > everybody, and for a Party to capture even 50% of > total votes cast, let > alone of the total adult population, is extremely > rare; there is > nothing remarkable about the fact that the Nazis > never achieved this. > They did however achieve the largest single block > vote and hence were, > initially, popularly elected by a democratic > process. Nazi economic > policy, though ultimately hopelessly short-termist, > did solve the > immediate problem of unemployment, the initial > recapture of the > Sudetenland will have been immensely popular, and > former German > territory in Poland; and if the Nazis had bothered > with democracy I > expect they would have been immensely supported up > until the war began > to turn against them. To describe them as > " extraordinarily popular " up > until this time I would say is probably accurate. I > dont know abt the > US, but the UK didnt bother with an election either > until the war was > over, whereupon the electorate promptly ousted > Churchill, the man who > had led them to victory. > > Pete > > mike kraemer wrote: > original > article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12496 > > I don't believe that Hitler's Germany was all that > > popular with the Jewish citizens living there at > the > > time Pete, and I believe (although I have to check > on > > this to make sure) that the Jews were not allowed > to > > own or use firearms during the Hitler regime. > Which of > > course made them vulnerable. etc. > > > > --- Pete Watts wrote: > > > > > > Just couldnt resist this one from the same Nazi > > > source: > > > > > > > > > ADOLF HITLER'S GUN CONTROL > > > > > > Adolf Hitler has been the favorite whipping boy > of > > > the Jewish and non-Jewish neo-liberal publicists > > > alike for so long now that > > > many persons have, in all innocence, attributed > to > > > him a number of sins of which he was absolutely > > > blameless. > > > > > > One of these imaginary sins was the alleged > > > dispossession of the German civilian population > of > > > firearms. American opponents of > > > gun control legislation are in the unfortunate > habit > > > of describing proposed firearms laws as > " Hitlerian " > > > and issuing grim warnings > > > that " it happened in Germany, and it can happen > > > here, " referring of course to their predictions > that > > > gun control advocates are > > > aiming at the total confiscation of firearms > from U. > > > S. citizens. > > > > > > Well, they are undoubtedly right about what the > > > anti-gun people in Washington have in mind, but > they > > > are dead wrong about Hitler > > > and Germany. Under Hitler, German citizens were > > > completely free to own and bear firearms, both > long > > > guns and pistols. > > > > > > Hitler's government recognized the basic rights > of > > > self-defense of German citizens and encouraged > > > cvilian marksmanship and sport > > > shooting. Hitler himself was an expert pistol > shot. > > > > > > There were no restrictions or licensing > requirements > > > at all for long guns and ammunition, and only > > > minimal licensing requirements > > > for handguns–one could not, for example, be a > > > convicted felon in National Socialist Germany > and > > > own a handgun legally. These > > > loose gun laws were in force in Germany until > 1945, > > > when the Allies and the Soviets occupied the > > > country. After that, German > > > civilians in the eastern occupation zone were > > > summarily shot by Communists (and Allies) if > they > > > were found in possession of so > > > much as a single rifle cartridge. > > > > > > Democrat Willie Brandt (real name Herbert Frahm, > a > > > former Communist Party member himself), > introduced > > > such stiff firearms > > > restrictions in the former West Germany that it > has > > > become virtually impossible for a German > civilian to > > > purchase any sort of > > > firearm unless he belongs to a government > sanctioned > > > club. The penalty for possession of an > unregistered > > > gun in today's " free and > > > democratic " Germany is five years in prison. So > much > > > for the Allies' stated goal of " saving > democracy " in > > > Germany. > > > > > > A good general rule is this: governments with > strong > > > popular backing do not seek to disarm their > > > citizens, and governments which > > > do take guns from their own people, regardless > of > > > the pretext they use, are afraid of the armed > > > opposition of their own citizens. > > > > > > Hitler's government was an extraordinarily > popular > > > one. > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Save cash today! > http://click./1/1414/1/_/4324/_/950656194/ > > -- Create a poll/survey for your group! > -- > /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1 > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2000 Report Share Posted February 17, 2000 Np Mike - I probably talk far too much politics here myself. I wasnt offended by your response, but I am mystified and rather saddened by the gun ownership lobby - it is a belief system completely alien to most Brits. Pete mike kraemer wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12613 > Hi Pete > > Well I don't think that this is the best forum to > discuss political issues, so I apologize if I rubbed > you the wrong way. I think that it is best for me to > refrain from getting into political talk here. > > Sincerely > > Mike > > --- Pete Watts wrote: > > > > I hope you arent under the impression that I > > automatically *agree* with > > anything this email said, are you Mike? (Though I > > have to admit that > > my gf called me a Nazi this evening!) I fwded it > > mostly to show that > > opponents of gun control have some interesting > > bedfellows, and a > > gun-owning society has an interesting prototype. > > > > As to the actual claims made by the post, well > > eventually in Nazi > > Germany Jews werent allowed the right to life, so it > > makes the right to > > own a firearm rather superfluous. However, I see no > > reason to believe > > that when they initially came to power the Nazis > > immediately enacted a > > specific disarmament of Jews - certainly I have > > never seen any > > historical account, documentary or fictional, refer > > to one. Probably > > such an enactment did come eventually, but by that > > time wholesale human > > rights violations will probably already have been in > > full swing - and > > doubtless German anti-semites took full advantage of > > their own > > gun-owning rights in the process of violating them. > > > > As to the popularity of the Nazis, obviously they > > wont have been > > popular with Jews, but then almost no Government is > > popular with > > everybody, and for a Party to capture even 50% of > > total votes cast, let > > alone of the total adult population, is extremely > > rare; there is > > nothing remarkable about the fact that the Nazis > > never achieved this. > > They did however achieve the largest single block > > vote and hence were, > > initially, popularly elected by a democratic > > process. Nazi economic > > policy, though ultimately hopelessly short-termist, > > did solve the > > immediate problem of unemployment, the initial > > recapture of the > > Sudetenland will have been immensely popular, and > > former German > > territory in Poland; and if the Nazis had bothered > > with democracy I > > expect they would have been immensely supported up > > until the war began > > to turn against them. To describe them as > > " extraordinarily popular " up > > until this time I would say is probably accurate. I > > dont know abt the > > US, but the UK didnt bother with an election either > > until the war was > > over, whereupon the electorate promptly ousted > > Churchill, the man who > > had led them to victory. > > > > Pete > > > > mike kraemer wrote: > > original > > > article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12496 > > > I don't believe that Hitler's Germany was all that > > > popular with the Jewish citizens living there at > > the > > > time Pete, and I believe (although I have to check > > on > > > this to make sure) that the Jews were not allowed > > to > > > own or use firearms during the Hitler regime. > > Which of > > > course made them vulnerable. etc. > > > > > > --- Pete Watts wrote: > > > > > > > > Just couldnt resist this one from the same Nazi > > > > source: > > > > > > > > > > > > ADOLF HITLER'S GUN CONTROL > > > > > > > > Adolf Hitler has been the favorite whipping boy > > of > > > > the Jewish and non-Jewish neo-liberal publicists > > > > alike for so long now that > > > > many persons have, in all innocence, attributed > > to > > > > him a number of sins of which he was absolutely > > > > blameless. > > > > > > > > One of these imaginary sins was the alleged > > > > dispossession of the German civilian population > > of > > > > firearms. American opponents of > > > > gun control legislation are in the unfortunate > > habit > > > > of describing proposed firearms laws as > > " Hitlerian " > > > > and issuing grim warnings > > > > that " it happened in Germany, and it can happen > > > > here, " referring of course to their predictions > > that > > > > gun control advocates are > > > > aiming at the total confiscation of firearms > > from U. > > > > S. citizens. > > > > > > > > Well, they are undoubtedly right about what the > > > > anti-gun people in Washington have in mind, but > > they > > > > are dead wrong about Hitler > > > > and Germany. Under Hitler, German citizens were > > > > completely free to own and bear firearms, both > > long > > > > guns and pistols. > > > > > > > > Hitler's government recognized the basic rights > > of > > > > self-defense of German citizens and encouraged > > > > cvilian marksmanship and sport > > > > shooting. Hitler himself was an expert pistol > > shot. > > > > > > > > There were no restrictions or licensing > > requirements > > > > at all for long guns and ammunition, and only > > > > minimal licensing requirements > > > > for handguns–one could not, for example, be a > > > > convicted felon in National Socialist Germany > > and > > > > own a handgun legally. These > > > > loose gun laws were in force in Germany until > > 1945, > > > > when the Allies and the Soviets occupied the > > > > country. After that, German > > > > civilians in the eastern occupation zone were > > > > summarily shot by Communists (and Allies) if > > they > > > > were found in possession of so > > > > much as a single rifle cartridge. > > > > > > > > Democrat Willie Brandt (real name Herbert Frahm, > > a > > > > former Communist Party member himself), > > introduced > > > > such stiff firearms > > > > restrictions in the former West Germany that it > > has > > > > become virtually impossible for a German > > civilian to > > > > purchase any sort of > > > > firearm unless he belongs to a government > > sanctioned > > > > club. The penalty for possession of an > > unregistered > > > > gun in today's " free and > > > > democratic " Germany is five years in prison. So > > much > > > > for the Allies' stated goal of " saving > > democracy " in > > > > Germany. > > > > > > > > A good general rule is this: governments with > > strong > > > > popular backing do not seek to disarm their > > > > citizens, and governments which > > > > do take guns from their own people, regardless > > of > > > > the pretext they use, are afraid of the armed > > > > opposition of their own citizens. > > > > > > > > Hitler's government was an extraordinarily > > popular > > > > one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2000 Report Share Posted February 17, 2000 It's OK, Pete. We can't understand warm beer, Teletubbies and Lloyd Webber. " pete watts " wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12638 > Np Mike - I probably talk far too much politics here myself. I wasnt > offended by your response, but I am mystified and rather saddened by > the gun ownership lobby - it is a belief system completely alien to > most Brits. > > Pete > > mike kraemer wrote: > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=126 13 > > Hi Pete > > > > Well I don't think that this is the best forum to > > discuss political issues, so I apologize if I rubbed > > you the wrong way. I think that it is best for me to > > refrain from getting into political talk here. > > > > Sincerely > > > > Mike > > > > --- Pete Watts wrote: > > > > > > I hope you arent under the impression that I > > > automatically *agree* with > > > anything this email said, are you Mike? (Though I > > > have to admit that > > > my gf called me a Nazi this evening!) I fwded it > > > mostly to show that > > > opponents of gun control have some interesting > > > bedfellows, and a > > > gun-owning society has an interesting prototype. > > > > > > As to the actual claims made by the post, well > > > eventually in Nazi > > > Germany Jews werent allowed the right to life, so it > > > makes the right to > > > own a firearm rather superfluous. However, I see no > > > reason to believe > > > that when they initially came to power the Nazis > > > immediately enacted a > > > specific disarmament of Jews - certainly I have > > > never seen any > > > historical account, documentary or fictional, refer > > > to one. Probably > > > such an enactment did come eventually, but by that > > > time wholesale human > > > rights violations will probably already have been in > > > full swing - and > > > doubtless German anti-semites took full advantage of > > > their own > > > gun-owning rights in the process of violating them. > > > > > > As to the popularity of the Nazis, obviously they > > > wont have been > > > popular with Jews, but then almost no Government is > > > popular with > > > everybody, and for a Party to capture even 50% of > > > total votes cast, let > > > alone of the total adult population, is extremely > > > rare; there is > > > nothing remarkable about the fact that the Nazis > > > never achieved this. > > > They did however achieve the largest single block > > > vote and hence were, > > > initially, popularly elected by a democratic > > > process. Nazi economic > > > policy, though ultimately hopelessly short-termist, > > > did solve the > > > immediate problem of unemployment, the initial > > > recapture of the > > > Sudetenland will have been immensely popular, and > > > former German > > > territory in Poland; and if the Nazis had bothered > > > with democracy I > > > expect they would have been immensely supported up > > > until the war began > > > to turn against them. To describe them as > > > " extraordinarily popular " up > > > until this time I would say is probably accurate. I > > > dont know abt the > > > US, but the UK didnt bother with an election either > > > until the war was > > > over, whereupon the electorate promptly ousted > > > Churchill, the man who > > > had led them to victory. > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > mike kraemer wrote: > > > original > > > > > article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12496 > > > > I don't believe that Hitler's Germany was all that > > > > popular with the Jewish citizens living there at > > > the > > > > time Pete, and I believe (although I have to check > > > on > > > > this to make sure) that the Jews were not allowed > > > to > > > > own or use firearms during the Hitler regime. > > > Which of > > > > course made them vulnerable. etc. > > > > > > > > --- Pete Watts wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Just couldnt resist this one from the same Nazi > > > > > source: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ADOLF HITLER'S GUN CONTROL > > > > > > > > > > Adolf Hitler has been the favorite whipping boy > > > of > > > > > the Jewish and non-Jewish neo-liberal publicists > > > > > alike for so long now that > > > > > many persons have, in all innocence, attributed > > > to > > > > > him a number of sins of which he was absolutely > > > > > blameless. > > > > > > > > > > One of these imaginary sins was the alleged > > > > > dispossession of the German civilian population > > > of > > > > > firearms. American opponents of > > > > > gun control legislation are in the unfortunate > > > habit > > > > > of describing proposed firearms laws as > > > " Hitlerian " > > > > > and issuing grim warnings > > > > > that " it happened in Germany, and it can happen > > > > > here, " referring of course to their predictions > > > that > > > > > gun control advocates are > > > > > aiming at the total confiscation of firearms > > > from U. > > > > > S. citizens. > > > > > > > > > > Well, they are undoubtedly right about what the > > > > > anti-gun people in Washington have in mind, but > > > they > > > > > are dead wrong about Hitler > > > > > and Germany. Under Hitler, German citizens were > > > > > completely free to own and bear firearms, both > > > long > > > > > guns and pistols. > > > > > > > > > > Hitler's government recognized the basic rights > > > of > > > > > self-defense of German citizens and encouraged > > > > > cvilian marksmanship and sport > > > > > shooting. Hitler himself was an expert pistol > > > shot. > > > > > > > > > > There were no restrictions or licensing > > > requirements > > > > > at all for long guns and ammunition, and only > > > > > minimal licensing requirements > > > > > for handguns–one could not, for example, be a > > > > > convicted felon in National Socialist Germany > > > and > > > > > own a handgun legally. These > > > > > loose gun laws were in force in Germany until > > > 1945, > > > > > when the Allies and the Soviets occupied the > > > > > country. After that, German > > > > > civilians in the eastern occupation zone were > > > > > summarily shot by Communists (and Allies) if > > > they > > > > > were found in possession of so > > > > > much as a single rifle cartridge. > > > > > > > > > > Democrat Willie Brandt (real name Herbert Frahm, > > > a > > > > > former Communist Party member himself), > > > introduced > > > > > such stiff firearms > > > > > restrictions in the former West Germany that it > > > has > > > > > become virtually impossible for a German > > > civilian to > > > > > purchase any sort of > > > > > firearm unless he belongs to a government > > > sanctioned > > > > > club. The penalty for possession of an > > > unregistered > > > > > gun in today's " free and > > > > > democratic " Germany is five years in prison. So > > > much > > > > > for the Allies' stated goal of " saving > > > democracy " in > > > > > Germany. > > > > > > > > > > A good general rule is this: governments with > > > strong > > > > > popular backing do not seek to disarm their > > > > > citizens, and governments which > > > > > do take guns from their own people, regardless > > > of > > > > > the pretext they use, are afraid of the armed > > > > > opposition of their own citizens. > > > > > > > > > > Hitler's government was an extraordinarily > > > popular > > > > > one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2000 Report Share Posted February 17, 2000 At 18:21 17/02/00 -0800, you wrote: >It's OK, Pete. We can't understand warm beer, Teletubbies and >Lloyd Webber. We can't understand Lloyd Webber either. Joe B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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