Re: Fw: history

January 23, 2000

my god carol, that sounds like a horror story. not to belittle your

pain, but you couldn't write a movie that was any scarier than that.

(perhaps you could write a screenplay to get even:) do you have any

kids and did ex use your " diagnosis " as alcoholic as grounds for

divorce? i have been in a similar situation with a loved one and

betrayal when i was young. it turns your world upside down. i hope the

people in your life today are good for you.

dave

January 24, 2000

Report that woman to her licensing board. What she did is totally

unethical.

January 25, 2000

It truly is a horror story! Those were only the highlites. So much was

left out. We had only one daughter which was wise. Her choice in marriage

partner wasn't the wisest either. I'm sure a result of the stuff she's

" seen " .

Most of the people I have in my life now are pretty good. I run into the

people from the " program " occasionally but I have a real hard time being

around many of them. There were a few who didn't approve of what went on,

but no one would have been aware of that if I hadn't been as vocal as I

was.

A screenplay would be interesting and a good catharsis.

Carol

----------

>

> To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> Subject: Re: Fw: history

> Date: Monday, January 24, 2000 1:10 AM

>

> my god carol, that sounds like a horror story. not to belittle your

> pain, but you couldn't write a movie that was any scarier than that.

> (perhaps you could write a screenplay to get even:) do you have any

> kids and did ex use your " diagnosis " as alcoholic as grounds for

> divorce? i have been in a similar situation with a loved one and

> betrayal when i was young. it turns your world upside down. i hope the

> people in your life today are good for you.

>

> dave

>

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January 25, 2000

I did. All I got was lipservice and delays in getting justice. The word

I got was that she had been " fired " but within a short time she was

employed by another local residential treatment center. She treated

clients the same way as she treated me (I am not alcoholic). I heard they

fired her after working there barely a month. She works now for a home

health care organization. She had also gotten her CAC (Certified

Addictions Counselor) certification after the fact! I complained and

talked in person to a number of the people who were in charge of MCBAP

(Michigan Certification Board for Addiction Professionals). She wasn't

even licensed when I was her client so that in itself covers her ass!

Where's the justice?

Carol

----------

>

> To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> Subject: Re: Fw: history

> Date: Monday, January 24, 2000 2:50 PM

>

> Report that woman to her licensing board. What she did is totally

> unethical.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> If you took Podimin™, Redux®, or the combination " Fen-Phen, "

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>

January 25, 2000

At 06:59 25/01/00 -0500, you wrote:

>I did. All I got was lipservice and delays in getting justice. The word

>I got was that she had been " fired " but within a short time she was

>employed by another local residential treatment center. She treated

>clients the same way as she treated me (I am not alcoholic). I heard they

>fired her after working there barely a month. She works now for a home

>health care organization. She had also gotten her CAC (Certified

>Addictions Counselor) certification after the fact! I complained and

>talked in person to a number of the people who were in charge of MCBAP

>(Michigan Certification Board for Addiction Professionals). She wasn't

>even licensed when I was her client so that in itself covers her ass!

>Where's the justice?

>

>Carol

I suppose it will take the exposure of quite a lot of treatment and

" addiction professional " abuses before the addictions field is forced to

adopt the same standards as elsewhere- it is clearly unwilling to do so of

its own accord. There really does seem to be a very lax attitude to

addiction professionals of this sort- based no doubt on the irresponsible

justification of " They are sick people too " . So much for the disease concept.

Joe B.

January 25, 2000

i suspect its due to the number of AA alcholics who work as treatment

counlors. alot of XA'ers belive they only training they need they got

in " school of hard knocks " and AA's stance that it takes an alcholic to

help an alcohlic. this alone sets a unproffesional standard.

> I suppose it will take the exposure of quite a lot of treatment and

> " addiction professional " abuses before the addictions field is forced

to

> adopt the same standards as elsewhere- it is clearly unwilling to do

so of

> its own accord. There really does seem to be a very lax attitude to

> addiction professionals of this sort- based no doubt on the

irresponsible

> justification of " They are sick people too " . So much for the disease

concept.

>

> Joe B.

>

January 25, 2000

catching up on mail...just reading this...god

carol...you must be a strong and courageous person to

find your way out of the program, which it sounds like

you have done....not to minimize the pain you went

through, but it sounds like King

novel..thought what I went through was bad.

--- carol wrote:

>

> ----------

> >

> > To: 12sf <12-step-freeegroups>

> > Subject: history

> > Date: Sunday, January 23, 2000 9:59 PM

> >

> > Rita, The quick side of my experience is...the

> " program " in this area

> was

> > affected by the belief system of the director of a

> substance abuse

> agency.

> > The man had a little empire going because of all

> the clients that had

> gone

> > through his system and bought into his thinking.

> I first went there in

> the

> > early 80's wanting to get help for the family. I

> didn't like the

> > confrontive, cold therapy and left after 3

> sessions. Eventually I had to

> > go back to the SAS because no other agencies were

> helping with the

> drinking

> > issues. The husband was the alcoholic.

> >

> > I've written this 4 times now and my computer

> keeps telling me I've

> > perfomed an illegal operation.

> >

> > I was " encouraged " to create a crisis by leaving

> home and giving husband

> an

> > ultimatum. Our daughter and I left on a cold,

> stormy day in Feb. for a

> > week. This forced him into their IOP program. I

> was put into their

> > women's group for a year. Upon our " graduation "

> from our respective

> > programs we were asked by the director to do

> volunteer work. The husband

> > in IOP and I would be their psychosocial intake

> person. This went on for

> > about 5 years. I had gone into a deep depression.

> Nothing I tried would

> > bring me out of it. I went back to school,

> husband was " relieved " of his

> > good paying job, and daughter wound up pregnant.

> Husband had been very

> > loving and caring after IOP but with my depression

> and being unable to

> > reciprocate he became angry. The agency believe

> that depression is

> caused

> > by anger turned inward or alcoholism that hadn't

> been dealt with. They

> > went in that direction with me. PTSD was the

> cause at the time. They

> knew

> > very little about it.

> >

> > I beseeched the director often to help....he told

> me I was alcoholic and

> > recommended treatment....that I was a typical

> codependent who got off on

> > creating a crisis. I eventually ran away again

> for 2 weeks and then went

> > to a hospital in GA. to deal finally with the

> depression. Here was my

> > official diagnosis, in black and white! Here I

> was prescribed

> > antidepressants. Upon my return home I had to

> follow through with

> > aftercare...husband move out for a year, we would

> work on ourselves, then

> > begin working on the relationship. All this was

> ignored by the agency.

> I

> > was put into women's group again.....where I was

> yelled at brutally by

> the

> > director (male) and accused of making unhealthy

> and poor choices in

> > friends and actions. Not true. I wouldn't

> compromise myself and told

> > them so. The depression was still with me and the

> meds weren't working.

> I

> > was there barely 3 months when they decided to

> have me leave

> group......by

> > taking me to the ER. I met someone from another

> agency and saw her for

> > about a month.

> > There's so much more that went on but time and

> space are short.

> >

> > I was told to leave and if I wanted to work on " my

> alcoholism " I could

> come

> > back and the director would set me up with one of

> the counselors with

> whom

> > I didn't have much history....I had become friends

> with most of them.

> They

> > had sought out my friendship. I didn't think this

> would be necessary and

> > let the matter drop.

> >

> > After 2 months I felt ready to ask the husband if

> he was ready to work on

> > our relationship. He said he'd have to talk to

> the director first. He

> > did, and pushed me to go back to the agency and

> deal with " my

> alcoholism " .

> > I realized what was going on........the same kind

> of thing that I

> > participated in to get him into IOP. I saw the

> counselor for 6 months.

> > She verbally abused me right from the

> start..... " you're a fucking drunk

> > like me " was one of her favorites. I was told I

> had to go to closed AA

> > meetings and say I was alkie. I told her I would

> not compromise myself

> and

> > be something I wasn't. During this time the

> husband called to tell me he

> > had filed.......I had a strong feeling she was

> right next to him

> supporting

> > his action.

> >

> > I was told she would no longer see me as a client

> because I wouldn't work

> > on my issues. Within that month the word on the

> streets was that they

> were

> > going to marry. They did 6 months after the

> divorce was final. She had

> > been " seeing " him right along. There was

> orchestration and collusion

> > regarding the divorce........I was abused by both

> the director and the

> > counselor while in couseling....accused of being

> alcoholic when I wasn't.

>

> > There's more but I will stop.

> >

> > Thanks, Carol

> >

>

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=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

January 25, 2000

If she wasn't licensed, then how could she practice? What was she

supposed to be doing? What was her job title?

Isn't it an offense in Michigan for people to practice anything for

which they should be licensed if they don't have a license?

Sorry, you've probably been through this ad nauseum, but I truly don't

understand.

" carol " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=11995

> I did. All I got was lipservice and delays in getting justice. The

word

> I got was that she had been " fired " but within a short time she was

> employed by another local residential treatment center. She treated

> clients the same way as she treated me (I am not alcoholic). I heard

they

> fired her after working there barely a month. She works now for a

home

> health care organization. She had also gotten her CAC (Certified

> Addictions Counselor) certification after the fact! I complained and

> talked in person to a number of the people who were in charge of MCBAP

> (Michigan Certification Board for Addiction Professionals). She

wasn't

> even licensed when I was her client so that in itself covers her ass!

> Where's the justice?

>

> Carol

> ----------

> >

> > To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > Subject: Re: Fw: history

> > Date: Monday, January 24, 2000 2:50 PM

> >

> > Report that woman to her licensing board. What she did is totally

> > unethical.

> >

January 25, 2000

Kayleigh, I hope to live to see the day when a lot of those 12-Step

counselors and administrators shit their collective pants in fear of

malpractice litigation, or as my wife used to call it, " shitigation. "

Perhaps the case of Dr. Whatisname who designed the " Just Say No to

Addicts " test is a the first ray of sunlight... or make that: " the

first telltale stain on the StepNazis' collective underwear. "

" kayleigh s " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12020

> If she wasn't licensed, then how could she practice? What was she

> supposed to be doing? What was her job title?

>

> Isn't it an offense in Michigan for people to practice anything for

> which they should be licensed if they don't have a license?

>

> Sorry, you've probably been through this ad nauseum, but I truly don't

> understand.

>

January 25, 2000

i agree. it will take the threat of law suits and loss of money before

this industry cleans itself up. it would be nice if US supreme court

would help too, by recognizing that senetencing folks to 12-step groups

is unconstitional. that by the way, would be the death blow to AA. if

they only keep 5% of new memebers in first year, imgaine what it would

be if people could choose betweeen AA or other programs? AA would dry

up and blow away in 1 generation.

January 26, 2000

At the time all this took place Michigan didn't have a requirement that

counselors had to have a license. This happened during the transition

period from one department that was supposed to take care of this kind of

thing to another that didn't know what was going on. I fell between the

proverbial cracks. They had lost a part of my complaint for a year.

Her job title was " substance abuse counselor " and worked in a local health

department setting. She was/is a rough and tumble alcoholic whose

reputation is quite sullied. The director of the agency permitted all

kinds of, shall we say, " cutting it close to ethical violations " ?. He got

away with stuff for years because of the good ol' boy system that prevails

here. He was the one who permitted her to work for them. The state of

course did periodic checks as to their proper keeping of patient records,

and other matters, but when one makes a complaint for something like this

most people accept the lipservice and shaming that comes from them. It

didn't work with me. But I could only go so far.....I found out later that

my divorce atty. had affiliations with the health dept. and gave me

inappropriate advice regarding the timing of me filing complaints.....he

was covering his ass....his conflict of interest, by telling me to wait

until the divorce was final before I did anything.

Carol

----------

>

> To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> Subject: Re: Fw: history

> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 10:37 PM

>

> If she wasn't licensed, then how could she practice? What was she

> supposed to be doing? What was her job title?

>

> Isn't it an offense in Michigan for people to practice anything for

> which they should be licensed if they don't have a license?

>

> Sorry, you've probably been through this ad nauseum, but I truly don't

> understand.

>

> " carol " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=11995

> > I did. All I got was lipservice and delays in getting justice. The

> word

> > I got was that she had been " fired " but within a short time she was

> > employed by another local residential treatment center. She treated

> > clients the same way as she treated me (I am not alcoholic). I heard

> they

> > fired her after working there barely a month. She works now for a

> home

> > health care organization. She had also gotten her CAC (Certified

> > Addictions Counselor) certification after the fact! I complained and

> > talked in person to a number of the people who were in charge of MCBAP

> > (Michigan Certification Board for Addiction Professionals). She

> wasn't

> > even licensed when I was her client so that in itself covers her ass!

> > Where's the justice?

> >

> > Carol

> > ----------

> > >

> > > To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > > Subject: Re: Fw: history

> > > Date: Monday, January 24, 2000 2:50 PM

> > >

> > > Report that woman to her licensing board. What she did is totally

> > > unethical.

> > >

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Save 50% at MotherNature.com! See site for details.

> http://click./1/766/1/_/4324/_/948857887/

>

> -- Talk to your group with your own voice!

> -- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1

>

January 26, 2000

OK, I see what happened. All I can say is, I am most truly sorry that

you were abused in this way.

" carol " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12054

> At the time all this took place Michigan didn't have a requirement

that

> counselors had to have a license. This happened during the transition

> period from one department that was supposed to take care of this

kind of

> thing to another that didn't know what was going on. I fell between

the

> proverbial cracks. They had lost a part of my complaint for a year.

>

> Her job title was " substance abuse counselor " and worked in a local

health

> department setting. She was/is a rough and tumble alcoholic whose

> reputation is quite sullied. The director of the agency permitted all

> kinds of, shall we say, " cutting it close to ethical violations " ?.

He got

> away with stuff for years because of the good ol' boy system that

prevails

> here. He was the one who permitted her to work for them. The state

of

> course did periodic checks as to their proper keeping of patient

records,

> and other matters, but when one makes a complaint for something like

this

> most people accept the lipservice and shaming that comes from them.

It

> didn't work with me. But I could only go so far.....I found out

later that

> my divorce atty. had affiliations with the health dept. and gave me

> inappropriate advice regarding the timing of me filing

complaints.....he

> was covering his ass....his conflict of interest, by telling me to

wait

> until the divorce was final before I did anything.

>

> Carol

> ----------

> >

> > To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > Subject: Re: Fw: history

> > Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 10:37 PM

> >

> > If she wasn't licensed, then how could she practice? What was she

> > supposed to be doing? What was her job title?

> >

> > Isn't it an offense in Michigan for people to practice anything for

> > which they should be licensed if they don't have a license?

> >

> > Sorry, you've probably been through this ad nauseum, but I truly

don't

> > understand.

> >

> > " carol " wrote:

> > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=1

1995

> > > I did. All I got was lipservice and delays in getting justice.

The

> > word

> > > I got was that she had been " fired " but within a short time she

was

> > > employed by another local residential treatment center. She

treated

> > > clients the same way as she treated me (I am not alcoholic). I

heard

> > they

> > > fired her after working there barely a month. She works now for a

> > home

> > > health care organization. She had also gotten her CAC (Certified

> > > Addictions Counselor) certification after the fact! I complained

and

> > > talked in person to a number of the people who were in charge of

MCBAP

> > > (Michigan Certification Board for Addiction Professionals). She

> > wasn't

> > > even licensed when I was her client so that in itself covers her

ass!

> > > Where's the justice?

> > >

> > > Carol

> > > ----------

> > > >

> > > > To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > > > Subject: Re: Fw: history

> > > > Date: Monday, January 24, 2000 2:50 PM

> > > >

> > > > Report that woman to her licensing board. What she did is

totally

> > > > unethical.

> > > >

> >

January 27, 2000

Carol,

I came in to the middle of your 'conversation'. This didn't happen

around Ann Arbor, did it? This reeks of a situation I am all to

familiar with.

" carol " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12054

> At the time all this took place Michigan didn't have a requirement

that

> counselors had to have a license. This happened during the transition

> period from one department that was supposed to take care of this

kind of

> thing to another that didn't know what was going on. I fell between

the

> proverbial cracks. They had lost a part of my complaint for a year.

>

> Her job title was " substance abuse counselor " and worked in a local

health

> department setting. She was/is a rough and tumble alcoholic whose

> reputation is quite sullied. The director of the agency permitted all

> kinds of, shall we say, " cutting it close to ethical violations " ?.

He got

> away with stuff for years because of the good ol' boy system that

prevails

> here. He was the one who permitted her to work for them. The state

of

> course did periodic checks as to their proper keeping of patient

records,

> and other matters, but when one makes a complaint for something like

this

> most people accept the lipservice and shaming that comes from them.

It

> didn't work with me. But I could only go so far.....I found out

later that

> my divorce atty. had affiliations with the health dept. and gave me

> inappropriate advice regarding the timing of me filing

complaints.....he

> was covering his ass....his conflict of interest, by telling me to

wait

> until the divorce was final before I did anything.

>

> Carol

> ----------

> >

> > To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > Subject: Re: Fw: history

> > Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 10:37 PM

> >

> > If she wasn't licensed, then how could she practice? What was she

> > supposed to be doing? What was her job title?

> >

> > Isn't it an offense in Michigan for people to practice anything for

> > which they should be licensed if they don't have a license?

> >

> > Sorry, you've probably been through this ad nauseum, but I truly

don't

> > understand.

> >

> > " carol " wrote:

> > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=1

1995

> > > I did. All I got was lipservice and delays in getting justice.

The

> > word

> > > I got was that she had been " fired " but within a short time she

was

> > > employed by another local residential treatment center. She

treated

> > > clients the same way as she treated me (I am not alcoholic). I

heard

> > they

> > > fired her after working there barely a month. She works now for a

> > home

> > > health care organization. She had also gotten her CAC (Certified

> > > Addictions Counselor) certification after the fact! I complained

and

> > > talked in person to a number of the people who were in charge of

MCBAP

> > > (Michigan Certification Board for Addiction Professionals). She

> > wasn't

> > > even licensed when I was her client so that in itself covers her

ass!

> > > Where's the justice?

> > >

> > > Carol

> > > ----------

> > > >

> > > > To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > > > Subject: Re: Fw: history

> > > > Date: Monday, January 24, 2000 2:50 PM

> > > >

> > > > Report that woman to her licensing board. What she did is

totally

> > > > unethical.

> > > >

> >

January 27, 2000

No, it happened in God's Country.....the Copper Country, in the Upper

Peninsula of Mi. Where the finger sticks up into Lake Superior, right where

the Portage Canal " slices the finger off " . Since were almost in Canada and

pretty much forgotten by the rest of the state people who want to get away

with something usually can.

Carol

----------

>

> To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> Subject: Re: Fw: history

> Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 7:03 AM

>

> Carol,

>

> I came in to the middle of your 'conversation'. This didn't happen

> around Ann Arbor, did it? This reeks of a situation I am all to

> familiar with.

>

> " carol " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12054

> > At the time all this took place Michigan didn't have a requirement

> that

> > counselors had to have a license. This happened during the transition

> > period from one department that was supposed to take care of this

> kind of

> > thing to another that didn't know what was going on. I fell between

> the

> > proverbial cracks. They had lost a part of my complaint for a year.

> >

> > Her job title was " substance abuse counselor " and worked in a local

> health

> > department setting. She was/is a rough and tumble alcoholic whose

> > reputation is quite sullied. The director of the agency permitted all

> > kinds of, shall we say, " cutting it close to ethical violations " ?.

> He got

> > away with stuff for years because of the good ol' boy system that

> prevails

> > here. He was the one who permitted her to work for them. The state

> of

> > course did periodic checks as to their proper keeping of patient

> records,

> > and other matters, but when one makes a complaint for something like

> this

> > most people accept the lipservice and shaming that comes from them.

> It

> > didn't work with me. But I could only go so far.....I found out

> later that

> > my divorce atty. had affiliations with the health dept. and gave me

> > inappropriate advice regarding the timing of me filing

> complaints.....he

> > was covering his ass....his conflict of interest, by telling me to

> wait

> > until the divorce was final before I did anything.

> >

> > Carol

> > ----------

> > >

> > > To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > > Subject: Re: Fw: history

> > > Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 10:37 PM

> > >

> > > If she wasn't licensed, then how could she practice? What was she

> > > supposed to be doing? What was her job title?

> > >

> > > Isn't it an offense in Michigan for people to practice anything for

> > > which they should be licensed if they don't have a license?

> > >

> > > Sorry, you've probably been through this ad nauseum, but I truly

> don't

> > > understand.

> > >

> > > " carol " wrote:

> > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=1

> 1995

> > > > I did. All I got was lipservice and delays in getting justice.

> The

> > > word

> > > > I got was that she had been " fired " but within a short time she

> was

> > > > employed by another local residential treatment center. She

> treated

> > > > clients the same way as she treated me (I am not alcoholic). I

> heard

> > > they

> > > > fired her after working there barely a month. She works now for a

> > > home

> > > > health care organization. She had also gotten her CAC (Certified

> > > > Addictions Counselor) certification after the fact! I complained

> and

> > > > talked in person to a number of the people who were in charge of

> MCBAP

> > > > (Michigan Certification Board for Addiction Professionals). She

> > > wasn't

> > > > even licensed when I was her client so that in itself covers her

> ass!

> > > > Where's the justice?

> > > >

> > > > Carol

> > > > ----------

> > > > >

> > > > > To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > > > > Subject: Re: Fw: history

> > > > > Date: Monday, January 24, 2000 2:50 PM

> > > > >

> > > > > Report that woman to her licensing board. What she did is

> totally

> > > > > unethical.

> > > > >

> > >

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Save 50% at MotherNature.com! See site for details.

> http://click./1/766/1/_/4324/_/948974624/

>

> -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault

> -- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1

>

January 27, 2000

No, it happened in God's Country.....the Copper Country, in the Upper

Peninsula of Mi. Where the finger sticks up into Lake Superior, right where

the Portage Canal " slices the finger off " . Since were almost in Canada and

pretty much forgotten by the rest of the state people who want to get away

with something usually can.

Carol

----------

>

> To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> Subject: Re: Fw: history

> Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 7:03 AM

>

> Carol,

>

> I came in to the middle of your 'conversation'. This didn't happen

> around Ann Arbor, did it? This reeks of a situation I am all to

> familiar with.

>

> " carol " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12054

> > At the time all this took place Michigan didn't have a requirement

> that

> > counselors had to have a license. This happened during the transition

> > period from one department that was supposed to take care of this

> kind of

> > thing to another that didn't know what was going on. I fell between

> the

> > proverbial cracks. They had lost a part of my complaint for a year.

> >

> > Her job title was " substance abuse counselor " and worked in a local

> health

> > department setting. She was/is a rough and tumble alcoholic whose

> > reputation is quite sullied. The director of the agency permitted all

> > kinds of, shall we say, " cutting it close to ethical violations " ?.

> He got

> > away with stuff for years because of the good ol' boy system that

> prevails

> > here. He was the one who permitted her to work for them. The state

> of

> > course did periodic checks as to their proper keeping of patient

> records,

> > and other matters, but when one makes a complaint for something like

> this

> > most people accept the lipservice and shaming that comes from them.

> It

> > didn't work with me. But I could only go so far.....I found out

> later that

> > my divorce atty. had affiliations with the health dept. and gave me

> > inappropriate advice regarding the timing of me filing

> complaints.....he

> > was covering his ass....his conflict of interest, by telling me to

> wait

> > until the divorce was final before I did anything.

> >

> > Carol

> > ----------

> > >

> > > To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > > Subject: Re: Fw: history

> > > Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 10:37 PM

> > >

> > > If she wasn't licensed, then how could she practice? What was she

> > > supposed to be doing? What was her job title?

> > >

> > > Isn't it an offense in Michigan for people to practice anything for

> > > which they should be licensed if they don't have a license?

> > >

> > > Sorry, you've probably been through this ad nauseum, but I truly

> don't

> > > understand.

> > >

> > > " carol " wrote:

> > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=1

> 1995

> > > > I did. All I got was lipservice and delays in getting justice.

> The

> > > word

> > > > I got was that she had been " fired " but within a short time she

> was

> > > > employed by another local residential treatment center. She

> treated

> > > > clients the same way as she treated me (I am not alcoholic). I

> heard

> > > they

> > > > fired her after working there barely a month. She works now for a

> > > home

> > > > health care organization. She had also gotten her CAC (Certified

> > > > Addictions Counselor) certification after the fact! I complained

> and

> > > > talked in person to a number of the people who were in charge of

> MCBAP

> > > > (Michigan Certification Board for Addiction Professionals). She

> > > wasn't

> > > > even licensed when I was her client so that in itself covers her

> ass!

> > > > Where's the justice?

> > > >

> > > > Carol

> > > > ----------

> > > > >

> > > > > To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > > > > Subject: Re: Fw: history

> > > > > Date: Monday, January 24, 2000 2:50 PM

> > > > >

> > > > > Report that woman to her licensing board. What she did is

> totally

> > > > > unethical.

> > > > >

> > >

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Save 50% at MotherNature.com! See site for details.

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>

January 28, 2000

Boy, I would hate to be on your bad side!

I have such similar circumstances in my experiences-just a different

part of the state.

The person I am referring to has @30 years of 'sobriety'-since his

teens, is the director of a treatment center in the area and there is

much murmuring about his financial situation. He is Mr. AA to newbies

and an asshole to the people who know about him. If he did not have

all the followers in AA, I bet he could not survive. His ego is fed by

AA foundlings and the puppets he can create in his little treatment

center. If one is so unfortunate as to buck is so-called authority,

they are ostracized from 'the group' and blacklisted as being 'streets'

and 'untouchable' and 'not-fit-to-be-a-sponsor'. I have a friend who

went through this treatment center 12 years ago. She called this guy,

looking for a letter of recommendation for a teaching position and he

asked her if she had dealt with her 'relationship issues' yet.

Not only is he controlling, he's sick and twisted. And for some damned

reason, not everybody sees it. There are two very different camps on

this guy; either people hate him or they love him. I think they love

him if they're brainwashed. That's my read.

I hope you see your 'director' go DOWN, Carol.

" carol " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12072

> No, it happened in God's Country.....the Copper Country, in the Upper

> Peninsula of Mi. Where the finger sticks up into Lake Superior, right

where

> the Portage Canal " slices the finger off " . Since were almost in

Canada and

> pretty much forgotten by the rest of the state people who want to get

away

> with something usually can.

>

> Carol

>

> ----------

> >

> > To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > Subject: Re: Fw: history

> > Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 7:03 AM

> >

> > Carol,

> >

> > I came in to the middle of your 'conversation'. This didn't happen

> > around Ann Arbor, did it? This reeks of a situation I am all to

> > familiar with.

> >

> > " carol " wrote:

> > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=1

2054

> > > At the time all this took place Michigan didn't have a requirement

> > that

> > > counselors had to have a license. This happened during the

transition

> > > period from one department that was supposed to take care of this

> > kind of

> > > thing to another that didn't know what was going on. I fell

between

> > the

> > > proverbial cracks. They had lost a part of my complaint for a

year.

> > >

> > > Her job title was " substance abuse counselor " and worked in a

local

> > health

> > > department setting. She was/is a rough and tumble alcoholic whose

> > > reputation is quite sullied. The director of the agency

permitted all

> > > kinds of, shall we say, " cutting it close to ethical

violations " ?.

> > He got

> > > away with stuff for years because of the good ol' boy system that

> > prevails

> > > here. He was the one who permitted her to work for them. The

state

> > of

> > > course did periodic checks as to their proper keeping of patient

> > records,

> > > and other matters, but when one makes a complaint for something

like

> > this

> > > most people accept the lipservice and shaming that comes from

them.

> > It

> > > didn't work with me. But I could only go so far.....I found out

> > later that

> > > my divorce atty. had affiliations with the health dept. and gave

me

> > > inappropriate advice regarding the timing of me filing

> > complaints.....he

> > > was covering his ass....his conflict of interest, by telling me to

> > wait

> > > until the divorce was final before I did anything.

> > >

> > > Carol

> > > ----------

> > > >

> > > > To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > > > Subject: Re: Fw: history

> > > > Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 10:37 PM

> > > >

> > > > If she wasn't licensed, then how could she practice? What was

she

> > > > supposed to be doing? What was her job title?

> > > >

> > > > Isn't it an offense in Michigan for people to practice anything

for

> > > > which they should be licensed if they don't have a license?

> > > >

> > > > Sorry, you've probably been through this ad nauseum, but I truly

> > don't

> > > > understand.

> > > >

> > > > " carol " wrote:

> > > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?sta

rt=1

> > 1995

> > > > > I did. All I got was lipservice and delays in getting

justice.

> > The

> > > > word

> > > > > I got was that she had been " fired " but within a short time

she

> > was

> > > > > employed by another local residential treatment center. She

> > treated

> > > > > clients the same way as she treated me (I am not alcoholic).

I

> > heard

> > > > they

> > > > > fired her after working there barely a month. She works now

for a

> > > > home

> > > > > health care organization. She had also gotten her CAC

(Certified

> > > > > Addictions Counselor) certification after the fact! I

complained

> > and

> > > > > talked in person to a number of the people who were in charge

of

> > MCBAP

> > > > > (Michigan Certification Board for Addiction Professionals).

She

> > > > wasn't

> > > > > even licensed when I was her client so that in itself covers

her

> > ass!

> > > > > Where's the justice?

> > > > >

> > > > > Carol

> > > > > ----------

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > > > > > Subject: Re: Fw: history

> > > > > > Date: Monday, January 24, 2000 2:50 PM

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Report that woman to her licensing board. What she did is

> > totally

> > > > > > unethical.

> > > > > >

> > > >

> >

January 28, 2000

The director " retired " from the agency with a terrific " golden parachute " .

He then became employed as a probation officer in the 4 county area. He

meets for lunch with the local judge, a counselor from the agency who

was/is the X's sponsor.................makes me think he still runs things

at the agency. I would still like to take them all to court......by the

way, the judges wife was my first counselor at the place. You can bet she

has a lot of the " inside dope " on the goings on in my life as well as

others. Maybe that doesn't matter but, it sure pissed me off one day when

I stopped to drop off some art work at a consignor's shop, she happened to

be there and asked me " how are the puzzles going? " She was never privy to

this gripe of the X's. It came much later. Even more interesting is the

fact that if I worked on a puzzle it was maybe twice a year....but the X,

before he was an X decided I had this as an addiction. He was pretty nuts

in the end.

----------

>

> To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> Subject: Re: Fw: history

> Date: Friday, January 28, 2000 10:20 AM

>

> Boy, I would hate to be on your bad side!

>

> I have such similar circumstances in my experiences-just a different

> part of the state.

>

> The person I am referring to has @30 years of 'sobriety'-since his

> teens, is the director of a treatment center in the area and there is

> much murmuring about his financial situation. He is Mr. AA to newbies

> and an asshole to the people who know about him. If he did not have

> all the followers in AA, I bet he could not survive. His ego is fed by

> AA foundlings and the puppets he can create in his little treatment

> center. If one is so unfortunate as to buck is so-called authority,

> they are ostracized from 'the group' and blacklisted as being 'streets'

> and 'untouchable' and 'not-fit-to-be-a-sponsor'. I have a friend who

> went through this treatment center 12 years ago. She called this guy,

> looking for a letter of recommendation for a teaching position and he

> asked her if she had dealt with her 'relationship issues' yet.

>

> Not only is he controlling, he's sick and twisted. And for some damned

> reason, not everybody sees it. There are two very different camps on

> this guy; either people hate him or they love him. I think they love

> him if they're brainwashed. That's my read.

>

> I hope you see your 'director' go DOWN, Carol.

>

> " carol " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12072

> > No, it happened in God's Country.....the Copper Country, in the Upper

> > Peninsula of Mi. Where the finger sticks up into Lake Superior, right

> where

> > the Portage Canal " slices the finger off " . Since were almost in

> Canada and

> > pretty much forgotten by the rest of the state people who want to get

> away

> > with something usually can.

> >

> > Carol

> >

> > ----------

> > >

> > > To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > > Subject: Re: Fw: history

> > > Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 7:03 AM

> > >

> > > Carol,

> > >

> > > I came in to the middle of your 'conversation'. This didn't happen

> > > around Ann Arbor, did it? This reeks of a situation I am all to

> > > familiar with.

> > >

> > > " carol " wrote:

> > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=1

> 2054

> > > > At the time all this took place Michigan didn't have a requirement

> > > that

> > > > counselors had to have a license. This happened during the

> transition

> > > > period from one department that was supposed to take care of this

> > > kind of

> > > > thing to another that didn't know what was going on. I fell

> between

> > > the

> > > > proverbial cracks. They had lost a part of my complaint for a

> year.

> > > >

> > > > Her job title was " substance abuse counselor " and worked in a

> local

> > > health

> > > > department setting. She was/is a rough and tumble alcoholic whose

> > > > reputation is quite sullied. The director of the agency

> permitted all

> > > > kinds of, shall we say, " cutting it close to ethical

> violations " ?.

> > > He got

> > > > away with stuff for years because of the good ol' boy system that

> > > prevails

> > > > here. He was the one who permitted her to work for them. The

> state

> > > of

> > > > course did periodic checks as to their proper keeping of patient

> > > records,

> > > > and other matters, but when one makes a complaint for something

> like

> > > this

> > > > most people accept the lipservice and shaming that comes from

> them.

> > > It

> > > > didn't work with me. But I could only go so far.....I found out

> > > later that

> > > > my divorce atty. had affiliations with the health dept. and gave

> me

> > > > inappropriate advice regarding the timing of me filing

> > > complaints.....he

> > > > was covering his ass....his conflict of interest, by telling me to

> > > wait

> > > > until the divorce was final before I did anything.

> > > >

> > > > Carol

> > > > ----------

> > > > >

> > > > > To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > > > > Subject: Re: Fw: history

> > > > > Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 10:37 PM

> > > > >

> > > > > If she wasn't licensed, then how could she practice? What was

> she

> > > > > supposed to be doing? What was her job title?

> > > > >

> > > > > Isn't it an offense in Michigan for people to practice anything

> for

> > > > > which they should be licensed if they don't have a license?

> > > > >

> > > > > Sorry, you've probably been through this ad nauseum, but I truly

> > > don't

> > > > > understand.

> > > > >

> > > > > " carol " wrote:

> > > > > original article:/group/12-step-free/?sta

> rt=1

> > > 1995

> > > > > > I did. All I got was lipservice and delays in getting

> justice.

> > > The

> > > > > word

> > > > > > I got was that she had been " fired " but within a short time

> she

> > > was

> > > > > > employed by another local residential treatment center. She

> > > treated

> > > > > > clients the same way as she treated me (I am not alcoholic).

> I

> > > heard

> > > > > they

> > > > > > fired her after working there barely a month. She works now

> for a

> > > > > home

> > > > > > health care organization. She had also gotten her CAC

> (Certified

> > > > > > Addictions Counselor) certification after the fact! I

> complained

> > > and

> > > > > > talked in person to a number of the people who were in charge

> of

> > > MCBAP

> > > > > > (Michigan Certification Board for Addiction Professionals).

> She

> > > > > wasn't

> > > > > > even licensed when I was her client so that in itself covers

> her

> > > ass!

> > > > > > Where's the justice?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Carol

> > > > > > ----------

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Fw: history

> > > > > > > Date: Monday, January 24, 2000 2:50 PM

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Report that woman to her licensing board. What she did is

> > > totally

> > > > > > > unethical.

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Save 50% at MotherNature.com! See site for details.

> http://click./1/766/1/_/4324/_/949072815/

>

> -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!

> -- /cal?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

January 28, 2000

Forgot to mention...this man, the director claimed to have only a past

" addiction " to cigarettes. This was the only way he could be credible with

the people in the program.

I'm not done with the bastards yet.