New look for AA deprogramming

December 7, 1999

" dave " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10153

> apple, im a professional graphic designer, if you need any nifty

> graphics for your site let me know. also; please, please leave the

bill

> head! it's priceless!

> dave

>

The bill head has been redone. It's ALMOST the same, but when the

cursor is dragged over his face, instead of the universal symbol for

" NO " (circle with slash), we get a message that says THINK! Done in a

nice graphic of course.

Apple

I'm going to save a full copy of the old site, in case the new one gets

too much annoying stepper attention.

BTW, I found a great site on spiritual abuse:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/9575/charactr.html

December 8, 1999

This would I think be a timely and welcome change, though I can well relate

to the clever, cathartic darker imagery as well. After all, it is supposed to

be a sort of " light at the end of the tunnel, " correct?

In a message dated 12/7/99 10:33:10 AM Central Standard Time,

appledtp@... writes:

<<

Now that much of my anger has died down, I am once again, reworking the

site to be more action oriented, versus simply a place to go to gripe.

I think it'll be a positive change.

>>

December 9, 1999

Thank you Joe!

Seems like a lot of work doesn't it, just to survive in AA?

Apple

>

> # A subtle and insidious AA programming towards helplessness,

non-existant

> disease, dependence, irresponsibility, superstition, fatalism, and

> pathological self-blame emanates from virtually all the AA literature

and

> readings, slogans and wall signs, even in the healthy groups. To

remain

> aware of and protected against this programming, it is a good idea to

read

> and regularly refresh your mind from a list of alternative

> deprogramming-type books, like, but not limited to, " The Real AA " ,

> " Addiction, Change and Choice " , etc. Participation in deprogramming

groups

> may be helpful also.

>

> Joe B.

>

December 9, 1999

Apple: I think the site is pretty cool as it is. I agree that you might

want to change the background color to make it easier to read.

As far as the possibility of driving people away with the " negative "

tone, I tend to think that the Pollyanna types are the ones who would

never think of leaving AA anyway, therefore they'd never go near the

site to begin with. Well, I hate the idea of positive thinking. I don't

mean that you should be mean and critical to other people, but I just

don't believe most problems go away if you ignore or deny them. In my

opinion, the whole obsession with positive thinking was an outgrowth of

totalitarian propaganda strategies that became popular before World War

II. Besides, it takes yin and yang to make the universe whole.

Better a Cassandra than a Pollyanna, I say.

December 10, 1999

I don't think I could ever make a Pollyanna site! When I was one of

the groupers, the " girls " would ask me to go to tupperware parties, and

similar events. I remember the tupperware lady passing around a spoon

rest, and saying with a big big wide smile, " Now isn't that a wonderful

piece of plastic? " . I really can't take stuff like that without

feeling nausea. I still don't know what I'm going to do. I have the

new graphics done, but now the old me wants things to stay as is.

Flames and all. Lois, Bill & Dr. Bob, roasting on the barbecue.

Apple

" jim hankins " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10256

> Apple: I think the site is pretty cool as it is. I agree that you

might

> want to change the background color to make it easier to read.

>

> As far as the possibility of driving people away with the " negative "

> tone, I tend to think that the Pollyanna types are the ones who would

> never think of leaving AA anyway, therefore they'd never go near the

> site to begin with. Well, I hate the idea of positive thinking. I

don't

> mean that you should be mean and critical to other people, but I just

> don't believe most problems go away if you ignore or deny them. In my

> opinion, the whole obsession with positive thinking was an outgrowth

of

> totalitarian propaganda strategies that became popular before World

War

> II. Besides, it takes yin and yang to make the universe whole.

>

> Better a Cassandra than a Pollyanna, I say.

>

December 10, 1999

At 20:30 09/12/99 -0800, you wrote:

>Thank you Joe!

>Seems like a lot of work doesn't it, just to survive in AA?

>Apple

`

It is. But most of the work is in trying to sit or stand up straight with

the 200 pound weight tied to your neck...

Joe B.

December 10, 1999

At 05:39 10/12/99 -0800, you wrote:

>I don't think I could ever make a Pollyanna site! When I was one of

>the groupers, the " girls " would ask me to go to tupperware parties, and

>similar events. I remember the tupperware lady passing around a spoon

>rest, and saying with a big big wide smile, " Now isn't that a wonderful

>piece of plastic? " . I really can't take stuff like that without

>feeling nausea. I still don't know what I'm going to do. I have the

>new graphics done, but now the old me wants things to stay as is.

>Flames and all. Lois, Bill & Dr. Bob, roasting on the barbecue.

>Apple

Ah, a plastic spoon rest. This truly is the best of all times to live,

isn't it.

After thinking about it some more, I think the site needs to be critical of

AA rather than trying to be too nice. AA really screws people up, and is

one of the greatest collective abusers the planet has known, all the more

dangerous for its misleading appearance of goodness, holiness and

helpfullness.

Abused people also have a tendency to be nice to their abusers, probably in

the hope of getting appropriate treatment in return, or at least a

relationship of sorts. Look for instance at the way hostages tend to form a

bond with their captors. Apple, do you feel a recurring urge to be nice to

AA? I know I do, but I only get it once every few months now!

Possibly some of the imagery could be replaced with less violent imagery so

that the dismissals of you as " being angry " aren't quite so easy to make.

How about having Dr Bob, Lois and Bill in a glass jar, screaming silently?

The message is- we don't have to listen to that stuff now.

Joe B.

December 10, 1999

very funny! You make excellent points. Especially about people being

nice to their abusers. I find myself feeling compassion for AA when I

get really lonely. I'm suffering horribly right now. I will have to

think of something so I don't have to suffer like this.

apple

>

> Possibly some of the imagery could be replaced with less violent

imagery so

> that the dismissals of you as " being angry " aren't quite so easy to

make.

> How about having Dr Bob, Lois and Bill in a glass jar, screaming

silently?

> The message is- we don't have to listen to that stuff now.

>

> Joe B.

>

December 10, 1999

Apple, we need a site like yours.

---

Kayleigh

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