Guest guest Posted December 31, 1999 Report Share Posted December 31, 1999 God this is so sick. Now I see why perverts like the one who abused you find a safe and happy home in the rooms. Apple mike may wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10898 > I did step 4 and 5 with an addiction counselor, who was a sober drunk that > also attended AA. He congratulated me on how honest I was in taking blame > for my part in a homosexual encounter, although he just didn't understand > that sort of thing. We were talking about a 13 year old boy, that was > sexually abused by a friend of the family. Gee I wonder why I drank to mask > my feelings. > Can anyone tell me where I can buy a can of that AAHOLE SPRAY? > Mike > > At 08:16 AM 12/31/1999 -0800, you wrote: > >steps 3 and 4, especially 4 were horrible for me. i spent the last 7 > >months i was in AA suffering thru discovering what 'my part " was of > >what was essentially emotional abuse by another and self destructive > >acts on my part. i hate step 4. it doesn't paint a complete picture of > >a whole person, only searches for negatives which can be removed so the > >person can be converted and " upkifted " into their new 12-step model of > >spirituality > > > >during this time, i actually felt like there was a window of > >opportunity i missed, where i could have had the emotional growth i > >needed if i had only been encouraged that i could believe in myself and > >my motivations, that my spirit wasn't 'toxic " as i was told by my > >sponsor. > > > >dave > > > >judith stillwater wrote: > >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10 883 > >> This group has provided me with a place to discuss one of the most > >painful > >> experiences of my life. I don't know exactly why I had to talk about > >my 12 > >> step treatment and my brief experience with AA, but I did. I don't > >know why > >> this experience was so painful, but I'm beginning to understand how > >the > >> message I got from AA resonated with a message I got from my family > >as a > >> child. > >> > >> Thanks also to Kim, for recommending " The Guru Papers " (Kramer & > >Alstad). > >> I'm loving this book! The gist of it is that we are divided by > >society: > >> self-centered vs. selfless, bad vs. good. This division assumes that > >there > >> are, somewhere in the world and/or universe, moral authorities to > >whom we > >> should be listening. If we don't recognize and listen to these moral > >> authorities, and act upon their advice, then we are choosing to be bad > >> people. > >> > >> This is precisely what 12 step treatment, and then AA, played upon in > >me. > >> At a time in my life when I felt lost and searching, AA said follow > >these 12 > >> simple steps and you will find what you seek. Of course I didn't find > >peace, > >> I didn't find answers. I wouldn't be here if I had! I feel now that > >the > >> worst thing about my AA experience was the 4th step, and the > >insistence that > >> the " moral inventory " focus solely upon the negative. That > >perspective just > >> doesn't match the rest of my life. > >> > >> Questioning this experience with treatment and AA led me to recognize > >some > >> messages from my family as a child. Now I am looking for my own > >answers, > >> and I believe they change and shift every single day. That is the > >beauty of > >> being alive, of having the gift of my senses: I can read the world > >around me > >> and decide, based on my experience, what is the best course of action > >in > >> this specific situation. > >> > >> Core values can be good, but they can be bad too. As I look to the > >future, > >> I hope that even though it is difficult, I can question my core > >values if > >> they don't work, and update them so they are more appropriate for > >here and > >> now. The mistake is clinging to a rigid, fixed set of values and > >forcing > >> them upon every new situation I encounter. > >> > >> Anyway, thank you all for providing this environment. It is worth > >working > >> for. Thanks to Ken Ragge, Bufe, Apple, and everyone else > >whose > >> courage in questioning AA helped me to question it in my own life. > >Happy > >> new year to you all. > >> > >> Judith > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________________ > >> Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com > >> The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season > >> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 1999 Report Share Posted December 31, 1999 Hi Mike I have heard your kind of story before - I remember one man in OA talking abt how he realized he had " picked up men " in toilets at the age of 12. For him, thinking *he* was responsible was considered recovery. In realirt, frequently it is nwecessary for abused ppl to realize thay are *not* responsible for the abuse. It doesnt matter how provocative or willing they were as children, it is the adults involved who have responsibility for the sexual experiences they had as children. P. mike may wrote: original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10898 > I did step 4 and 5 with an addiction counselor, who was a sober drunk that > also attended AA. He congratulated me on how honest I was in taking blame > for my part in a homosexual encounter, although he just didn't understand > that sort of thing. We were talking about a 13 year old boy, that was > sexually abused by a friend of the family. Gee I wonder why I drank to mask > my feelings. > Can anyone tell me where I can buy a can of that AAHOLE SPRAY? > Mike > > At 08:16 AM 12/31/1999 -0800, you wrote: > >steps 3 and 4, especially 4 were horrible for me. i spent the last 7 > >months i was in AA suffering thru discovering what 'my part " was of > >what was essentially emotional abuse by another and self destructive > >acts on my part. i hate step 4. it doesn't paint a complete picture of > >a whole person, only searches for negatives which can be removed so the > >person can be converted and " upkifted " into their new 12-step model of > >spirituality > > > >during this time, i actually felt like there was a window of > >opportunity i missed, where i could have had the emotional growth i > >needed if i had only been encouraged that i could believe in myself and > >my motivations, that my spirit wasn't 'toxic " as i was told by my > >sponsor. > > > >dave > > > >judith stillwater wrote: > >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10 883 > >> This group has provided me with a place to discuss one of the most > >painful > >> experiences of my life. I don't know exactly why I had to talk about > >my 12 > >> step treatment and my brief experience with AA, but I did. I don't > >know why > >> this experience was so painful, but I'm beginning to understand how > >the > >> message I got from AA resonated with a message I got from my family > >as a > >> child. > >> > >> Thanks also to Kim, for recommending " The Guru Papers " (Kramer & > >Alstad). > >> I'm loving this book! The gist of it is that we are divided by > >society: > >> self-centered vs. selfless, bad vs. good. This division assumes that > >there > >> are, somewhere in the world and/or universe, moral authorities to > >whom we > >> should be listening. If we don't recognize and listen to these moral > >> authorities, and act upon their advice, then we are choosing to be bad > >> people. > >> > >> This is precisely what 12 step treatment, and then AA, played upon in > >me. > >> At a time in my life when I felt lost and searching, AA said follow > >these 12 > >> simple steps and you will find what you seek. Of course I didn't find > >peace, > >> I didn't find answers. I wouldn't be here if I had! I feel now that > >the > >> worst thing about my AA experience was the 4th step, and the > >insistence that > >> the " moral inventory " focus solely upon the negative. That > >perspective just > >> doesn't match the rest of my life. > >> > >> Questioning this experience with treatment and AA led me to recognize > >some > >> messages from my family as a child. Now I am looking for my own > >answers, > >> and I believe they change and shift every single day. That is the > >beauty of > >> being alive, of having the gift of my senses: I can read the world > >around me > >> and decide, based on my experience, what is the best course of action > >in > >> this specific situation. > >> > >> Core values can be good, but they can be bad too. As I look to the > >future, > >> I hope that even though it is difficult, I can question my core > >values if > >> they don't work, and update them so they are more appropriate for > >here and > >> now. The mistake is clinging to a rigid, fixed set of values and > >forcing > >> them upon every new situation I encounter. > >> > >> Anyway, thank you all for providing this environment. It is worth > >working > >> for. Thanks to Ken Ragge, Bufe, Apple, and everyone else > >whose > >> courage in questioning AA helped me to question it in my own life. > >Happy > >> new year to you all. > >> > >> Judith > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________________ > >> Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com > >> The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season > >> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 1999 Report Share Posted December 31, 1999 Hi Pete an Apple, Thanks for the support and also for picking up on the bullshit selfblaming, selfdemoralizing, selfdefeating wisdom so readily dispenced over the pulpits of AA. I have learned to put the blame where it truely belongs on the asshole that abused me. I hired a hit man and had him fix the situation for me, explaining to him that he could readily join Hitmans Anonymous to mend his way on compleation of the job and run out the back proclaiming that he had made amends where ever possible except when to do so would injur himself or others. Gee I wonder why they never tried that one in court for the Teflon Don. Oh ya, who said they hated the word Victim, There is a great book out called " No Body " s Victim - by J. McCullough " that may interest you. Mike M At 12:28 PM 12/31/1999 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Mike > >I have heard your kind of story before - I remember one man in OA >talking abt how he realized he had " picked up men " in toilets at the >age of 12. For him, thinking *he* was responsible was considered >recovery. In realirt, frequently it is nwecessary for abused ppl to >realize thay are *not* responsible for the abuse. It doesnt matter how >provocative or willing they were as children, it is the adults involved >who have responsibility for the sexual experiences they had as children. > >P. > >mike may wrote: >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10898 >> I did step 4 and 5 with an addiction counselor, who was a sober drunk >that >> also attended AA. He congratulated me on how honest I was in taking >blame >> for my part in a homosexual encounter, although he just didn't >understand >> that sort of thing. We were talking about a 13 year old boy, that was >> sexually abused by a friend of the family. Gee I wonder why I drank >to mask >> my feelings. >> Can anyone tell me where I can buy a can of that AAHOLE SPRAY? >> Mike >> >> At 08:16 AM 12/31/1999 -0800, you wrote: >> >steps 3 and 4, especially 4 were horrible for me. i spent the last 7 >> >months i was in AA suffering thru discovering what 'my part " was of >> >what was essentially emotional abuse by another and self destructive >> >acts on my part. i hate step 4. it doesn't paint a complete picture >of >> >a whole person, only searches for negatives which can be removed so >the >> >person can be converted and " upkifted " into their new 12-step model >of >> >spirituality >> > >> >during this time, i actually felt like there was a window of >> >opportunity i missed, where i could have had the emotional growth i >> >needed if i had only been encouraged that i could believe in myself >and >> >my motivations, that my spirit wasn't 'toxic " as i was told by my >> >sponsor. >> > >> >dave >> > >> >judith stillwater wrote: >> >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10 >883 >> >> This group has provided me with a place to discuss one of the most >> >painful >> >> experiences of my life. I don't know exactly why I had to talk >about >> >my 12 >> >> step treatment and my brief experience with AA, but I did. I don't >> >know why >> >> this experience was so painful, but I'm beginning to understand how >> >the >> >> message I got from AA resonated with a message I got from my family >> >as a >> >> child. >> >> >> >> Thanks also to Kim, for recommending " The Guru Papers " (Kramer & >> >Alstad). >> >> I'm loving this book! The gist of it is that we are divided by >> >society: >> >> self-centered vs. selfless, bad vs. good. This division assumes >that >> >there >> >> are, somewhere in the world and/or universe, moral authorities to >> >whom we >> >> should be listening. If we don't recognize and listen to these >moral >> >> authorities, and act upon their advice, then we are choosing to be >bad >> >> people. >> >> >> >> This is precisely what 12 step treatment, and then AA, played upon >in >> >me. >> >> At a time in my life when I felt lost and searching, AA said follow >> >these 12 >> >> simple steps and you will find what you seek. Of course I didn't >find >> >peace, >> >> I didn't find answers. I wouldn't be here if I had! I feel now >that >> >the >> >> worst thing about my AA experience was the 4th step, and the >> >insistence that >> >> the " moral inventory " focus solely upon the negative. That >> >perspective just >> >> doesn't match the rest of my life. >> >> >> >> Questioning this experience with treatment and AA led me to >recognize >> >some >> >> messages from my family as a child. Now I am looking for my own >> >answers, >> >> and I believe they change and shift every single day. That is the >> >beauty of >> >> being alive, of having the gift of my senses: I can read the world >> >around me >> >> and decide, based on my experience, what is the best course of >action >> >in >> >> this specific situation. >> >> >> >> Core values can be good, but they can be bad too. As I look to the >> >future, >> >> I hope that even though it is difficult, I can question my core >> >values if >> >> they don't work, and update them so they are more appropriate for >> >here and >> >> now. The mistake is clinging to a rigid, fixed set of values and >> >forcing >> >> them upon every new situation I encounter. >> >> >> >> Anyway, thank you all for providing this environment. It is worth >> >working >> >> for. Thanks to Ken Ragge, Bufe, Apple, and everyone else >> >whose >> >> courage in questioning AA helped me to question it in my own life. >> >Happy >> >> new year to you all. >> >> >> >> Judith >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________________ >> >> Visit Excite Shopping at http://shopping.excite.com >> >> The fastest way to find your Holiday gift this season >> >> >> > >> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Sneezing, wheezing, trouble breathing? If you have allergies or asthma, or >want to breathe happier and healthier, we can help. Visit gazoontite.com >for the products, information and services you need to breathe easier. >http://click./1/396/1/_/4324/_/946672106 > >-- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault >-- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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