Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Did you hear about your nada's bad childhood from your nada herself? I have recently found out that neither of my nada's sisters corroborate my nada's memories that they had a horrible childhood and both of them are bewildered by my nada's claims that their parents, my grandparents, abused and neglected them. My Sister and I both have only good memories of our maternal grandparents' treatment of us; no screaming, no hitting, no sarcasm, no punishments. In fact, my memories of monthly visits to our grandparents' home include many instances of my own nada behaving badly toward her older sister, saying mean and insulting things to her, and nobody ever did anything about it. My Auntie the Elder would just leave the room and leave nada muttering to herself, as I watched, confused. I have also recently learned from my nada's younger sister that nada is now claiming that my father used to beat nada! This is so far from reality as to be absurd. My nada used to go through the " cycle of abuse " with us kids, and she'd similarly have cyclical buildup of animosity towards our dad and they'd yell and scream at each other, but dad would leave the house when it got too intense. We'd hear the door slam and Sister and I knew we'd better make ourselves scarce or nada would come after us to continue her raging. My Sister in particular has several memories of being beaten by nada who afterward explained, " Well, I was mad at your father. " So, I guess what I'm suggesting is to listen to a bpd's claims of " abuse and neglect " with a skeptical frame of mind. Personality disordered individuals have an impaired ability to perceive reality accurately and they tend to lie and use manipulations to get what they want, so, just try to get some corroboration of her claims of a hideous childhood before you buy her whole story. -Annie > > Every time I start to think about and work through a few of the more painful memories/issues, the first thing that comes to mind is nada and what she went through as a child. The self-talk starts and I downplay what happened to me because it was not as bad as the horrible experiences that happened to nada as a child, none of which I should know, btw. This is driving me nuts! It's a mental block I can't move or go around. It's one of the things I'm struggling with now. I've been reading different books that have been recommended to me and I can't seem to see myself or self-identify with what I'm reading. Instead, I see nada! I see her pain and her hurt and I identify with hers, not mine. > > Abby > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 I've struggled with this too, and think that it's a common thing among KOs in PD families. The first book I read on this topic was The Narcissistic Family:Diagnosis and Treatment by son and Pressman. The authors discuss this tendency in their therapy clients with PD families. They call this Generalization and I think that for me it's one of the fleas of black and white thinking. It was very helpful to read the authors suggestions of compartmentalizing those two realities. Yes, it is true that some of our nadas had difficult or painful childhoods. Put that reality in box one. It is also true that our nadas hurt and abused us, didn't take responsibility for it, and don't want to change. That reality goes in box two. Both realities are true, but they exist independently of one another. It was tremendously freeing to realize that the reality of box one did not negate the reality of box two. The realities of nada's childhood don't get her off the hook for how she treated/treats me. I wouldn't expect my own children to let me off the hook based on my childhood, if I had hurt them the way nada hurt me! I also think that because I've been so trained to care for nada's feelings and care about her experiences, that nada's difficulties feel like they have more weight than mine. I always felt that her experiences somehow cancelled out mine. In reality, I'm also learning that nada's version of her childhood is very different from what my aunts have to say. I'm also learning that I always downplay my own difficulties. I hope this helps, a little bit. I'd recommend the book, too. Kate > > Every time I start to think about and work through a few of the more painful memories/issues, the first thing that comes to mind is nada and what she went through as a child. The self-talk starts and I downplay what happened to me because it was not as bad as the horrible experiences that happened to nada as a child, none of which I should know, btw. This is driving me nuts! It's a mental block I can't move or go around. It's one of the things I'm struggling with now. I've been reading different books that have been recommended to me and I can't seem to see myself or self-identify with what I'm reading. Instead, I see nada! I see her pain and her hurt and I identify with hers, not mine. > > Abby > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Kate, Thank you. You've given me a lot of good advice. I like the idea of the two boxes that are independent of one another. I had a feeling that I was not the only one who struggled with nada's hurts taking precedence over my hurts. From what I have read, your nada and mine are very much alike in how they interact with their children. Abby > > I've struggled with this too, and think that it's a common thing among KOs in PD families. > > The first book I read on this topic was The Narcissistic Family:Diagnosis and Treatment by son and Pressman. The authors discuss this tendency in their therapy clients with PD families. They call this Generalization and I think that for me it's one of the fleas of black and white thinking. > > It was very helpful to read the authors suggestions of compartmentalizing those two realities. Yes, it is true that some of our nadas had difficult or painful childhoods. Put that reality in box one. It is also true that our nadas hurt and abused us, didn't take responsibility for it, and don't want to change. That reality goes in box two. Both realities are true, but they exist independently of one another. > > It was tremendously freeing to realize that the reality of box one did not negate the reality of box two. The realities of nada's childhood don't get her off the hook for how she treated/treats me. I wouldn't expect my own children to let me off the hook based on my childhood, if I had hurt them the way nada hurt me! > > I also think that because I've been so trained to care for nada's feelings and care about her experiences, that nada's difficulties feel like they have more weight than mine. I always felt that her experiences somehow cancelled out mine. In reality, I'm also learning that nada's version of her childhood is very different from what my aunts have to say. I'm also learning that I always downplay my own difficulties. > > I hope this helps, a little bit. I'd recommend the book, too. > > Kate > > > > Every time I start to think about and work through a few of the more painful memories/issues, the first thing that comes to mind is nada and what she went through as a child. The self-talk starts and I downplay what happened to me because it was not as bad as the horrible experiences that happened to nada as a child, none of which I should know, btw. This is driving me nuts! It's a mental block I can't move or go around. It's one of the things I'm struggling with now. I've been reading different books that have been recommended to me and I can't seem to see myself or self-identify with what I'm reading. Instead, I see nada! I see her pain and her hurt and I identify with hers, not mine. > > > > Abby > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Wow, . I'm so happy for you that you put a stop to your nada emotionally beating up on you like that; how horrible that was for you. Congratulations on standing up for yourself! -Annie > > I've struggled with this too, and think that it's a common thing among KOs in PD families. > > The first book I read on this topic was The Narcissistic Family:Diagnosis and Treatment by son and Pressman. The authors discuss this tendency in their therapy clients with PD families. They call this Generalization and I think that for me it's one of the fleas of black and white thinking. > > It was very helpful to read the authors suggestions of compartmentalizing those two realities. Yes, it is true that some of our nadas had difficult or painful childhoods. Put that reality in box one. It is also true that our nadas hurt and abused us, didn't take responsibility for it, and don't want to change. That reality goes in box two. Both realities are true, but they exist independently of one another. > > It was tremendously freeing to realize that the reality of box one did not negate the reality of box two. The realities of nada's childhood don't get her off the hook for how she treated/treats me. I wouldn't expect my own children to let me off the hook based on my childhood, if I had hurt them the way nada hurt me! > > I also think that because I've been so trained to care for nada's feelings and care about her experiences, that nada's difficulties feel like they have more weight than mine. I always felt that her experiences somehow cancelled out mine. In reality, I'm also learning that nada's version of her childhood is very different from what my aunts have to say. I'm also learning that I always downplay my own difficulties. > > I hope this helps, a little bit. I'd recommend the book, too. > > Kate > > > > Every time I start to think about and work through a few of the more painful memories/issues, the first thing that comes to mind is nada and what she went through as a child. The self-talk starts and I downplay what happened to me because it was not as bad as the horrible experiences that happened to nada as a child, none of which I should know, btw. This is driving me nuts! It's a mental block I can't move or go around. It's one of the things I'm struggling with now. I've been reading different books that have been recommended to me and I can't seem to see myself or self-identify with what I'm reading. Instead, I see nada! I see her pain and her hurt and I identify with hers, not mine. > > > > Abby > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Abby, I would suggest finding a quiet space and imagining yourself as a little girl, and you now as a powerful adult. Let her tell you what hurts. Listen to her. Validate her. Comfort her. Tell her you'll protect her from now on. She deserves to be heard. -Deanna > > Every time I start to think about and work through a few of the more painful memories/issues, the first thing that comes to mind is nada and what she went through as a child. The self-talk starts and I downplay what happened to me because it was not as bad as the horrible experiences that happened to nada as a child, none of which I should know, btw. This is driving me nuts! It's a mental block I can't move or go around. It's one of the things I'm struggling with now. I've been reading different books that have been recommended to me and I can't seem to see myself or self-identify with what I'm reading. Instead, I see nada! I see her pain and her hurt and I identify with hers, not mine. > > Abby > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 I'm with Kate, Abby. What is in box 2 does not negate what is in box 1. I think the thinking that one person's suffering negates someone else's suffering is nada's thinking. It was her propaganda campaign--I have suffered so much, I am therefore entitled to do anything and to treat anyone in any way. But it's not true. Having been harmed does not entitle you to harm others. In fact, what she did was to pass the suffering on to you in order to feel it less. What you feel is, to some extent, her suffering that she chose not to feel or that she chose to feel less. The only way to break that cycle is to acknowledge and attend to your own suffering. Best, Ashana Cricket on your mind? Visit the ultimate cricket website. Enter http://beta.cricket.yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 I can completely relate to this!!! Your last sentence " I see her pain and her hurt and I identify with hers, not mine. " rang so true for me. I first noticed this about a year ago, when I was thinking about this song by Tori Amos called " Silent all these years " which is sort of about... discovering you have a voice of your own after " all these years " , and it made me feel sad because it reminded me of nada. Then I thought... why the heck does it remind me of nada??? Sure, I've heard all about how she was the downtrodden victim in various other relationships, but in our mother/daughter relationship, she SURE wasn't the one whose voice wasn't being heard. That was ME. I was the voiceless one who had been waiting all those years to have her voice heard. I was feeling sad for ME, but I didn't feel like I was allowed to. I still do it: I think it's a side effect of being told over and over how terrible her pain is. It feels like having your own pain invalidates nada's. But it doesn't. We need to keep telling ourselves that we have the right to feel our own pain: maybe one day, it will really sink in. > > Every time I start to think about and work through a few of the more painful memories/issues, the first thing that comes to mind is nada and what she went through as a child. The self-talk starts and I downplay what happened to me because it was not as bad as the horrible experiences that happened to nada as a child, none of which I should know, btw. This is driving me nuts! It's a mental block I can't move or go around. It's one of the things I'm struggling with now. I've been reading different books that have been recommended to me and I can't seem to see myself or self-identify with what I'm reading. Instead, I see nada! I see her pain and her hurt and I identify with hers, not mine. > > Abby > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Nada hasn't said anything good about her childhood, but she hasn't said a lot about it either. She recounts the same two or three incidents all the time so I have no idea if she had any good times. She's always been jealous or envious of her siblings. She blames some of them for everything rotten in her life, as well as her parents. They're all a little kooky. Abby > > never..she's never said a thing about her family or childhood at all...and I > know it wasn't bad...her siblings have told me things, and it sounds like > nada was doted on, and totally spoiled because she was the youngest of 9, > and a menopausal baby...their last shot at having kids...plus like my > brother said, her parents were old and worn down by the other 8 kids... > > Jackie > > > Did you hear about your nada's bad childhood from your nada herself? > > I have recently found out that neither of my nada's sisters corroborate my > nada's memories that they had a horrible childhood and both of them are > bewildered by my nada's claims that their parents, my grandparents, abused > and neglected them. My Sister and I both have only good memories of our > maternal grandparents' treatment of us; no screaming, no hitting, no > sarcasm, no punishments. In fact, my memories of monthly visits to our > grandparents' home include many instances of my own nada behaving badly > toward her older sister, saying mean and insulting things to her, and nobody > ever did anything about it. My Auntie the Elder would just leave the room > and leave nada muttering to herself, as I watched, confused. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 > > In fact, what she did was to pass the suffering on to you in order to feel it less. What you feel is, to some extent, her suffering that she chose not to feel or that she chose to feel less. The only way to break that cycle is to acknowledge and attend to your own suffering. > > Best, > Ashana I never thought of it that way. It's like someone dumping their problems on someone else. It becomes the other person's problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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