Re: How do you break the ice?

[Guest guest]

Oh , you're playing the tapes of Nada!!! You've bought yourself a one way

ticket on the guilt train express...

Don't do anything right now!

If Easter was a angst filled day, why go back there? You state that you're

getting happy... but I'd bet my last .02 that you're feeling guilty as h%@# and

are ready to shoot yourself in the fanny because of the " oughts and shoulds and

their guilt inducing powers. "

Don't do anything right now!

You are thinking these feelings will go away if only you do something to make

Nada happy. Won't happen. Ever. Only look at the past - it's a pretty good

indication of the future.

Don't do anything right now!

Let those sleeping dogs lie, lay, and sleep.

Lynnette

>

> I've been limiting my contact with nada, not taking or returning her calls,

not buying her bday gift or card, etc for the past month. On Easter I sent them

a card asking they call before stopping by. I saw them at my son's house on

Easter Sunday, a week ago, and fada was sulking and nada was so furious she

would not look or speak to me. A week has gone by and I've heard nothing from

them, not one word, which surprises me, usually nada has to phone or write to

lay on the guilt. I'm feeling like I " SHOULD " break the ice, but truly I don't

FEEL like it just yet. Part of me is enjoying the reprieve from their

oppressive and intrusive visits as well as enjoying my newfound peace of mind.

>

> Having been raised with nada, I've become a great one for sabbatoging

myself...and I don't want to keep doing that...so I wonder if my thoughts about

breaking the ice are strictly that...things are going too smooth and so I think

I should stir the pot, so to speak.

>

> I've been busy working on projects with deadlines, and other various important

things in my life, as well as trying to read some of the book my counselor

recommended called " Children of the Self-Absorbed " .

>

> Funny how when nada isn't inflicting guilt upon me, I start doing it to

myself. So my question is this...When is good timing and under what

circumstances is it appropriate to break the ice with my elderly parents, and

when do I just leave sleeping dogs lie?

>

> Any good advice?

>

> 2

>

[Guest guest]

Feeling like you should call them to break the ice sounds to me

like it would be giving in to the guilt you've been trained to

feel. You could also be right that you feel some need to stir

the pot because you're so unused to things going smoothly that

you feel uncomfortable. In either case, the feelings are

feelings your nada taught you to feel.

I think good timing for calling them is when you genuinely want

to talk to them. Do you actually want to have contact with them?

If not, I'd recommend leaving sleeping dogs lie. I certainly

wouldn't recommend calling them just because you feel like it is

somehow your responsibility to do so. Enjoy the current peace

and use the time to think about how *you* feel and what *you*

want to do, not how she feels and what she wants. If you do

decide you want to call them, I wouldn't mention the fact that

you haven't heard from them.

At 05:43 PM 04/19/2009 sarahsmom72585 wrote:

>I've been limiting my contact with nada, not taking or

>returning her calls, not buying her bday gift or card, etc for

>the past month. On Easter I sent them a card asking they call

>before stopping by. I saw them at my son's house on Easter

>Sunday, a week ago, and fada was sulking and nada was so

>furious she would not look or speak to me. A week has gone by

>and I've heard nothing from them, not one word, which surprises

>me, usually nada has to phone or write to lay on the guilt. I'm

>feeling like I " SHOULD " break the ice, but truly I don't FEEL

>like it just yet. Part of me is enjoying the reprieve from

>their oppressive and intrusive visits as well as enjoying my

>newfound peace of mind.

>

>Having been raised with nada, I've become a great one for

>sabbatoging myself...and I don't want to keep doing that...so I

>wonder if my thoughts about breaking the ice are strictly

>that...things are going too smooth and so I think I should stir

>the pot, so to speak.

>

>I've been busy working on projects with deadlines, and other

>various important things in my life, as well as trying to read

>some of the book my counselor recommended called " Children of

>the Self-Absorbed " .

>

>Funny how when nada isn't inflicting guilt upon me, I start

>doing it to myself. So my question is this...When is good

>timing and under what circumstances is it appropriate to break

>the ice with my elderly parents, and when do I just leave

>sleeping dogs lie?

>

>Any good advice?

>

>2

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

2,

Oh, who cares what you " should " do?  There is nothing morally superior about

inflicting mentally ill people on yourself.  They do not get better just because

you call.  They don't get worse when you don't.  This is true regardless of

their protestations to the contrary.

I think the anticipation of the nuclear attack you are expecting is a part of

what drives the anxiety.  At some point, it seems easier just to bring it on and

get it over with.

Call when you feel like it, but really I would not call if your last experience

with them was of unacceptable behavior.  The silent treatment is just as nasty

and mean as yelling at you--maybe worse.  They do not deserve a call.  They

deserve to be sent to their rooms to think about their bad behavior a little

longer.

Since it's hard to feel like wanting to call or see people who really have

nothing to offer, you could set up a schedule for yourself based on how often

you think you can stand to talk to them.  I talk to my bpd sister once a week

unless one or both of us is really busy.  Unless something particularly

spectacular happens (she had a miscarriage a few months back), I don't talk to

her more often.  I don't talk to her less often.  I try to initiate the call

roughly fifty percent of the time so she doesn't feel neglected and also doesn't

start getting needy and demanding.  If she behaved badly, I would end the call

and call her again in a week.  I travel to her place to visit for one or two

weeks once a year.  She is welcome to visit once or twice a year if she wants. 

It does not matter how much she hints that she'd like me to visit more often.  I

plan on coming once a year until one of us is dead or she becomes unmanageable. 

I think of myself as Mr. in her life.  I always take off my shoes, I

always feed the fish, and I always put on a button-down sweater, but I only come

on at the programmed time.  It takes away some of the potential for her to get

confused about how close or how far to be (a chronic problem for bpds) and saves

me from having to deal with it.  I am always the same distance away emotionally.

Your parents seem to badly behaved to deal with once a week, but you could aim

for once a month or once a season.

I don't know if any of that is helpful.  Your parents really do not deserve a

daughter who is as nice or as thoughtful as you are.

Best,

Ashana

Connect with friends all over the world. Get Yahoo! India Messenger at

http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/?wm=n/

[Guest guest]

PERFECT!!!!

" I think of myself as Mr. in her life. I always take off my shoes, I

always feed the fish, and I always put on a button-down sweater, but I only come

on at the programmed time. It takes away some of the potential for her to get

confused about how close or how far to be (a chronic problem for bpds) and saves

me from having to deal with it. I am always the same distance away

emotionally. "

Lynnette

>

> 2,

>

> Oh, who cares what you " should " do?  There is nothing morally superior about

inflicting mentally ill people on yourself.  They do not get better just because

you call.  They don't get worse when you don't.  This is true regardless of

their protestations to the contrary.

>

> I think the anticipation of the nuclear attack you are expecting is a part of

what drives the anxiety.  At some point, it seems easier just to bring it on and

get it over with.

>

> Call when you feel like it, but really I would not call if your last

experience with them was of unacceptable behavior.  The silent treatment is just

as nasty and mean as yelling at you--maybe worse.  They do not deserve a call. 

They deserve to be sent to their rooms to think about their bad behavior a

little longer.

>

> Since it's hard to feel like wanting to call or see people who really have

nothing to offer, you could set up a schedule for yourself based on how often

you think you can stand to talk to them.  I talk to my bpd sister once a week

unless one or both of us is really busy.  Unless something particularly

spectacular happens (she had a miscarriage a few months back), I don't talk to

her more often.  I don't talk to her less often.  I try to initiate the call

roughly fifty percent of the time so she doesn't feel neglected and also doesn't

start getting needy and demanding.  If she behaved badly, I would end the call

and call her again in a week.  I travel to her place to visit for one or two

weeks once a year.  She is welcome to visit once or twice a year if she wants. 

It does not matter how much she hints that she'd like me to visit more often.  I

plan on coming once a year until one of us is dead or she becomes unmanageable. 

>

> I think of myself as Mr. in her life.  I always take off my shoes, I

always feed the fish, and I always put on a button-down sweater, but I only come

on at the programmed time.  It takes away some of the potential for her to get

confused about how close or how far to be (a chronic problem for bpds) and saves

me from having to deal with it.  I am always the same distance away emotionally.

>

> Your parents seem to badly behaved to deal with once a week, but you could aim

for once a month or once a season.

>

> I don't know if any of that is helpful.  Your parents really do not deserve a

daughter who is as nice or as thoughtful as you are.

>

> Best,

> Ashana

>

>

> Connect with friends all over the world. Get Yahoo! India Messenger at

http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/?wm=n/

>

>

[Guest guest]

I used to call nada before she called me, especially after a major encounter

with her. I used to be so overcome with fear about what would happen next that

I'd call her first to relieve some of the anxiety. I think it was a pre-emptive

strike on my part in an attempt to lessen the impact or control what may or may

not happen next. I don't self-sabatage as much as I used to. I was so used to

sh*t happening, that if something went right, I didn't know what to do. I was

always waiting for something bad to happen (I never knew when nada would go over

the edge, I just knew it would happen at some point) when something bad did

happen I felt much better than the anxiety I felt waiting for it to happen. Make

sense? Btw, Children of the self-absorbed is a great book.

Don't beat yourself up. Let her stew. FOG may roll in, but it also always rolls

out.

Abby

>

> I've been limiting my contact with nada, not taking or returning her calls,

not buying her bday gift or card, etc for the past month. On Easter I sent them

a card asking they call before stopping by. I saw them at my son's house on

Easter Sunday, a week ago, and fada was sulking and nada was so furious she

would not look or speak to me. A week has gone by and I've heard nothing from

them, not one word, which surprises me, usually nada has to phone or write to

lay on the guilt. I'm feeling like I " SHOULD " break the ice, but truly I don't

FEEL like it just yet. Part of me is enjoying the reprieve from their

oppressive and intrusive visits as well as enjoying my newfound peace of mind.

>

> Having been raised with nada, I've become a great one for sabbatoging

myself...and I don't want to keep doing that...so I wonder if my thoughts about

breaking the ice are strictly that...things are going too smooth and so I think

I should stir the pot, so to speak.

>

> I've been busy working on projects with deadlines, and other various important

things in my life, as well as trying to read some of the book my counselor

recommended called " Children of the Self-Absorbed " .

>

> Funny how when nada isn't inflicting guilt upon me, I start doing it to

myself. So my question is this...When is good timing and under what

circumstances is it appropriate to break the ice with my elderly parents, and

when do I just leave sleeping dogs lie?

>

> Any good advice?

>

> 2

>

[Guest guest]

2,

Imagine for a moment just what the conversation might be if you did pick up the

phone and call them today ... is that a place you really want to go? Perhaps you

are imagining/hoping there would be a mending of sorts. Really, do you think

there will be? If they were that eager to mend anything, they'd have called

*you* by now. It seems they are only waiting for you to come back, tail between

your legs, so you can be beaten for getting out of the gate and running free in

the first place ...

It's just my two cents, but maybe you should take some time to enjoy the

freedom, forget about the leash you left in the yard, and go play at the park

for a while. If and when you are ready to return, do it because you sincerely

want to, not because you feel guilty for needing some peace and play time.

(Sorry for the puppy dog references ... I'm not calling you a dog! I'm just big

on analogies. They help to compensate for my lack of brain cells.) = )

Sincerely,

[Guest guest]

2,

I don't have many good answers for you. When I was in contact with nada, I would

just let these things roll over and enjoy the reprieve for a few weeks, a month,

whatever. Talking and rationalizing never works. I think if I were you I would

give it more time and not call out of guilt.

A good friend of mine once told me that I really don't need my nada around

anymore to beat me up because I do a great job beating myself up. Very similar

to what you posted--if they aren't there to guilt you you just do it to

yourself. We've been so conditioned to think we are bad/rotten/hate ourselves

that it is actually sick. I am trying to work on stopping the bad feelings

toward myself but it isn't easy. Nadas are like broken records in our heads,

telling us how rotten we are. I hope to one day stop hearing that song because

it is really getting old.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

> >

> > I've been limiting my contact with nada, not taking or returning her calls,

not buying her bday gift or card, etc for the past month. On Easter I sent them

a card asking they call before stopping by. I saw them at my son's house on

Easter Sunday, a week ago, and fada was sulking and nada was so furious she

would not look or speak to me. A week has gone by and I've heard nothing from

them, not one word, which surprises me, usually nada has to phone or write to

lay on the guilt. I'm feeling like I " SHOULD " break the ice, but truly I don't

FEEL like it just yet. Part of me is enjoying the reprieve from their

oppressive and intrusive visits as well as enjoying my newfound peace of mind.

> >

> > Having been raised with nada, I've become a great one for sabbatoging

myself...and I don't want to keep doing that...so I wonder if my thoughts about

breaking the ice are strictly that...things are going too smooth and so I think

I should stir the pot, so to speak.

> >

> > I've been busy working on projects with deadlines, and other various

important things in my life, as well as trying to read some of the book my

counselor recommended called " Children of the Self-Absorbed " .

> >

> > Funny how when nada isn't inflicting guilt upon me, I start doing it to

myself. So my question is this...When is good timing and under what

circumstances is it appropriate to break the ice with my elderly parents, and

when do I just leave sleeping dogs lie?

> >

> > Any good advice?

> >

> > 2

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks everyone for the much needed advice and reminders about the FOG...How

many years I've been manipulated with guilt, I can't believe I'm still falling

for it, but I guess I am.

The point about my wanting to call them just to relieve my building anxiety was

SO RIGHT ON TARGET. So was the part about the last time I saw them having been

so unpleasant, and it was, that why would I want to go back for more of the

same. Wow! I need to stop allowing my emotions and anxiety to run my life and

stop listening to the BLAME, SHAME and GUILT Tapes that keep telling what I

SHOULD be doing.

I so appreciate the kind words that my parents don't deserve a nice daughter

like me. Right you are!

So glad I posted and asked for help. It was well worth it.

You people are THE BEST!

2

>

> I've been limiting my contact with nada, not taking or returning her calls,

not buying her bday gift or card, etc for the past month. On Easter I sent them

a card asking they call before stopping by. I saw them at my son's house on

Easter Sunday, a week ago, and fada was sulking and nada was so furious she

would not look or speak to me. A week has gone by and I've heard nothing from

them, not one word, which surprises me, usually nada has to phone or write to

lay on the guilt. I'm feeling like I " SHOULD " break the ice, but truly I don't

FEEL like it just yet. Part of me is enjoying the reprieve from their

oppressive and intrusive visits as well as enjoying my newfound peace of mind.

>

> Having been raised with nada, I've become a great one for sabbatoging

myself...and I don't want to keep doing that...so I wonder if my thoughts about

breaking the ice are strictly that...things are going too smooth and so I think

I should stir the pot, so to speak.

>

> I've been busy working on projects with deadlines, and other various important

things in my life, as well as trying to read some of the book my counselor

recommended called " Children of the Self-Absorbed " .

>

> Funny how when nada isn't inflicting guilt upon me, I start doing it to

myself. So my question is this...When is good timing and under what

circumstances is it appropriate to break the ice with my elderly parents, and

when do I just leave sleeping dogs lie?

>

> Any good advice?

>

> 2

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with the earlier replies to your post. I think you are feeling anxious

because your nada is giving you the silent treatment for daring to ask her to

please phone you instead of just dropping in.

Your nada and fada are not used to the concept of treating you with respect, but

you have the right to make that request of them.

As someone mentioned earlier, sometimes the panicky urge to phone your abusive

parents when they " abandon " you feels like a way of stopping the buildup of

tension. Or, it feels like a way to relieve your guilt.

I believe we all agree that you should not feel the least bit of guilt for

setting this boundary, you did not do anything bad. You are not a bad person

for asking for privacy, that is everyone's right, for pete's sake.

So, if you are still feeling anxious and wondering what form their retaliation

will take, and how severe it will be, then perhaps you can consider inviting

them to have lunch with you somewhere neutral, like a nice restaurant you know

they like, in a couple of weeks. That would also demonstrate to your nada and

fada the polite and thoughtful way that people usually set up visits with each

other.

If you receive no reply to your lunch invitation, then you'll know that you're

in for a long siege of " cold shoulder " and that is how they are going to

" punish " you.

And that's not a bad thing, now, is it, really? As the others have said, take

advantage of your new-found freedom and go do some relaxing and sweet things

with your husband and kids. Take some day-trips or weekend trips. You deserve

to have some fun!

-Annie

>

> I've been limiting my contact with nada, not taking or returning her calls,

not buying her bday gift or card, etc for the past month. On Easter I sent them

a card asking they call before stopping by. I saw them at my son's house on

Easter Sunday, a week ago, and fada was sulking and nada was so furious she

would not look or speak to me. A week has gone by and I've heard nothing from

them, not one word, which surprises me, usually nada has to phone or write to

lay on the guilt. I'm feeling like I " SHOULD " break the ice, but truly I don't

FEEL like it just yet. Part of me is enjoying the reprieve from their

oppressive and intrusive visits as well as enjoying my newfound peace of mind.

>

> Having been raised with nada, I've become a great one for sabbatoging

myself...and I don't want to keep doing that...so I wonder if my thoughts about

breaking the ice are strictly that...things are going too smooth and so I think

I should stir the pot, so to speak.

>

> I've been busy working on projects with deadlines, and other various important

things in my life, as well as trying to read some of the book my counselor

recommended called " Children of the Self-Absorbed " .

>

> Funny how when nada isn't inflicting guilt upon me, I start doing it to

myself. So my question is this...When is good timing and under what

circumstances is it appropriate to break the ice with my elderly parents, and

when do I just leave sleeping dogs lie?

>

> Any good advice?

>

> 2

>

[Guest guest]

2 - you've received a lot of great advice on this post. My question to you

is " are you past the feeling of wanting to call? " I usually find myself overcome

with urgency to call but if I sit it out, it passes. That is how we're trained.

I've been working through the NC and I like it. That's not to say there are

moments of grief, guilt, panic. If I feel it then work on something else, I

feel good again. The need to call passes.

They want us to call. They need us to call. They control our lives and when you

call, they succeed.

I want to call and reach out. BUT I'm curious how strong I can really be. How

long can I GO on my own? That's what I'm aiming for.

Betty

>

> I've been limiting my contact with nada, not taking or returning her calls,

not buying her bday gift or card, etc for the past month. On Easter I sent them

a card asking they call before stopping by. I saw them at my son's house on

Easter Sunday, a week ago, and fada was sulking and nada was so furious she

would not look or speak to me. A week has gone by and I've heard nothing from

them, not one word, which surprises me, usually nada has to phone or write to

lay on the guilt. I'm feeling like I " SHOULD " break the ice, but truly I don't

FEEL like it just yet. Part of me is enjoying the reprieve from their

oppressive and intrusive visits as well as enjoying my newfound peace of mind.

>

> Having been raised with nada, I've become a great one for sabbatoging

myself...and I don't want to keep doing that...so I wonder if my thoughts about

breaking the ice are strictly that...things are going too smooth and so I think

I should stir the pot, so to speak.

>

> I've been busy working on projects with deadlines, and other various important

things in my life, as well as trying to read some of the book my counselor

recommended called " Children of the Self-Absorbed " .

>

> Funny how when nada isn't inflicting guilt upon me, I start doing it to

myself. So my question is this...When is good timing and under what

circumstances is it appropriate to break the ice with my elderly parents, and

when do I just leave sleeping dogs lie?

>

> Any good advice?

>

> 2

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Betty,

Yes, my anxiety has passed and I'm feeling better having waited it out. It feels

like they need me to call to validate them. I like the suggestions I heard

about calling down the road to schedule a time to meet them for lunch or some

place neutral...I feel like that gives me a feeling of control over the

situation and the opportunity to steer the relationship the way I'd like it to

go...for once!

I guess this is a growing opportunity for me...and them, whether they like it or

not.

2

> >

> > I've been limiting my contact with nada, not taking or returning her calls,

not buying her bday gift or card, etc for the past month. On Easter I sent them

a card asking they call before stopping by. I saw them at my son's house on

Easter Sunday, a week ago, and fada was sulking and nada was so furious she

would not look or speak to me. A week has gone by and I've heard nothing from

them, not one word, which surprises me, usually nada has to phone or write to

lay on the guilt. I'm feeling like I " SHOULD " break the ice, but truly I don't

FEEL like it just yet. Part of me is enjoying the reprieve from their

oppressive and intrusive visits as well as enjoying my newfound peace of mind.

> >

> > Having been raised with nada, I've become a great one for sabbatoging

myself...and I don't want to keep doing that...so I wonder if my thoughts about

breaking the ice are strictly that...things are going too smooth and so I think

I should stir the pot, so to speak.

> >

> > I've been busy working on projects with deadlines, and other various

important things in my life, as well as trying to read some of the book my

counselor recommended called " Children of the Self-Absorbed " .

> >

> > Funny how when nada isn't inflicting guilt upon me, I start doing it to

myself. So my question is this...When is good timing and under what

circumstances is it appropriate to break the ice with my elderly parents, and

when do I just leave sleeping dogs lie?

> >

> > Any good advice?

> >

> > 2

> >

>