Re: New look for AA deprogramming -Reply

[Guest guest]

I hope none us have to remain angry. I still get angry at

times and it's only been " officially " 6 days since I've left. I

haven't found a whole lot of " pure anger " on the

" aadeprogramming " site. Maybe some anger coupled w/

inspiration, which is fine. But, I don't find counting how many

times the word " god " is used to be a constructive use of our

time. Haven't we wasted enough time already? I don't want

to give AA more time than it's already taken from me and I

want to be careful not to give it more power over me than it

has already taken!

My goal is to heal and move on. I feel this is possible by

staying in contact w/ people such as yourselves. People I

know have been where I've been and are headed where I want

to go! Towards a healthy, happy, AA-free life!

Have fun everyone!

-

[Guest guest]

I don't think any of us has to remain angry, but I think the best

insurance against it is to vent your anger in a constructive manner as

it arises. I still get angry after 2 years -- but not very often.

karen liptz wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=11133

> I hope none us have to remain angry. I still get angry at

> times and it's only been " officially " 6 days since I've left. I

> haven't found a whole lot of " pure anger " on the

> " aadeprogramming " site. Maybe some anger coupled w/

> inspiration, which is fine. But, I don't find counting how many

> times the word " god " is used to be a constructive use of our

> time. Haven't we wasted enough time already? I don't want

> to give AA more time than it's already taken from me and I

> want to be careful not to give it more power over me than it

> has already taken!

>

> My goal is to heal and move on. I feel this is possible by

> staying in contact w/ people such as yourselves. People I

> know have been where I've been and are headed where I want

> to go! Towards a healthy, happy, AA-free life!

>

> Have fun everyone!

>

> -

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone,

Something very different going on for me lately.

In my beginning days of AA, I was told not to blame anyone

or anything for my drinking or pretty much anything else that

had happened to me. I was to look for my part in things, and

realize that others were doing the best they could at the time.

I should examine my part and forgive them.

Throughtout my life, I have never allowed myself to be angry.

So, for alot of years, things that anyone else would have been

hurt or angry about, I was not. That seemed weak to me.

I had to " grow up " at a young age. Always did what I thought

the adult thing to do was. To me that meant stuffing feelings.

A good adult wouldn't cry or get mad in my mind. They would

always hold it together.

I have just begun to see (through questioning AA, and being here)

that I WAS abused in many ways. (this is a shocking thought

to me) I was left to grow up without any guidance at all.

The thought has now occurred to me that that was just plain old

crappy.

I am just now experiencing anger about alot of things. I was

raped at 15, and never told a soul. (AA's teachings would have

me praying for the son of a bitch if I told them)

So, there are alot of new feelings beginning to surface.

I have got to tell you... it feels good to finally allow

myself this anger.

I just don't want to direct it the wrong way.

Sue

Apple,

Love the new look

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: New look for AA deprogramming -Reply

>Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:58:44 -0800

>

>

>Hi Everyone,

>I didn't mean to offend anyone with the count on the word God,I came across

>it while I was deleting some of the old recovery sites in my bookmarks. Yes

>I am angry, I came from an abusive home and AA was supposed to be my saving

>grace so to speak. I was told at home that I was stupid and would never

>amount to anything, only to come to AA and get told when I questioned the

>fact that the program was Religious that it was spiritual and you could

>have any higher power that you chose, " as long as it was God " . I have been

>told

>over the years that we are alcoholics for a reason, we were chosen to help

>others find a program of living. I have been told to pray away my

>resentments for my father and mother for abandoning me, and they did that

>without ever leaving home. I have been physically, mentally, verbally and

>sexually abused and been told to find where I was wrong and ask for

>forgiveness. I have been told to throw away

>all the self help books that I have and read only the big book, its all

>that I need. And yes I have been repeatedly told that the program is not

>religious. And yes the word god repeated 167 times in the only book that I

>am supposed to read that is not religious in nature does offend my

>intelligence far more than you may understand.

>Mike M

>

>At 10:20 AM 01/06/2000 -0500, you wrote:

> >I hope none us have to remain angry. I still get angry at

> >times and it's only been " officially " 6 days since I've left. I

> >haven't found a whole lot of " pure anger " on the

> > " aadeprogramming " site. Maybe some anger coupled w/

> >inspiration, which is fine. But, I don't find counting how many

> >times the word " god " is used to be a constructive use of our

> >time. Haven't we wasted enough time already?

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime?

>You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it! Sign

>up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation!

>http://click./1/332/1/_/4324/_/947203148

>

>-- Talk to your group with your own voice!

>-- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1

>

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike,

Yes, I would like the names of those books. I was not sexually

abused in my home, but from what I am beginning to see, it was

alot more dysfunctional than I thought. I guess when we are

growing up, we just accept our homes as " normal. " I am now

starting to see how whacked-out alot of things were.

Do you know what I really, really, really appreciate?

The fact that no one here is going to tell me that I shouldn't

feel this way. No one is going to tell me to just go home

and read page 449 and all will be okay.

The truth is that this is the first time in a long time that

I really do feel that it is gonna be okay.

Thanks! Sue

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: New look for AA deprogramming -Reply

>Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 19:42:36 -0800

>

>

>Hi Sue,

> Welcome to the real world. I hope you get angry as hell at all the right

>people. Sexual abuse is the most demeaning form of abuse anyone can ever

>recieve. You have a right to get angry. You have a right to feel all the

>hurt and pain that you are feeling. There are a few books out that deal

>with the core issues behind sexual abuse and disfunctional homes, with out

>any bullshit steps. If your interested I would be more than happy to send

>you the names of them.

>Mike M

>

>At 12:29 AM 01/07/2000 GMT, you wrote:

> >

> > Hi Everyone,

> >

> > Something very different going on for me lately.

> >

> > In my beginning days of AA, I was told not to blame anyone

> > or anything for my drinking or pretty much anything else that

> > had happened to me. I was to look for my part in things, and

> > realize that others were doing the best they could at the time.

> > I should examine my part and forgive them.

> >

> > Throughtout my life, I have never allowed myself to be angry.

> > So, for alot of years, things that anyone else would have been

> > hurt or angry about, I was not. That seemed weak to me.

> >

> > I had to " grow up " at a young age. Always did what I thought

> > the adult thing to do was. To me that meant stuffing feelings.

> > A good adult wouldn't cry or get mad in my mind. They would

> > always hold it together.

> >

> > I have just begun to see (through questioning AA, and being here)

> > that I WAS abused in many ways. (this is a shocking thought

> > to me) I was left to grow up without any guidance at all.

> > The thought has now occurred to me that that was just plain old

> > crappy.

> >

> > I am just now experiencing anger about alot of things. I was

> > raped at 15, and never told a soul. (AA's teachings would have

> > me praying for the son of a bitch if I told them)

> >

> > So, there are alot of new feelings beginning to surface.

> >

> > I have got to tell you... it feels good to finally allow

> > myself this anger.

> >

> > I just don't want to direct it the wrong way.

> >

> > Sue

> >

> > Apple,

> >

> > Love the new look

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Looking for educational tools for you kids?

>Find everything you need at SmarterKids.com

>http://click./1/645/1/_/4324/_/947205778

>

>-- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!

>-- /cal?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone,

I didn't mean to offend anyone with the count on the word God,I came across

it while I was deleting some of the old recovery sites in my bookmarks. Yes

I am angry, I came from an abusive home and AA was supposed to be my saving

grace so to speak. I was told at home that I was stupid and would never

amount to anything, only to come to AA and get told when I questioned the

fact that the program was Religious that it was spiritual and you could

have any higher power that you chose, " as long as it was God " . I have been

told

over the years that we are alcoholics for a reason, we were chosen to help

others find a program of living. I have been told to pray away my

resentments for my father and mother for abandoning me, and they did that

without ever leaving home. I have been physically, mentally, verbally and

sexually abused and been told to find where I was wrong and ask for

forgiveness. I have been told to throw away

all the self help books that I have and read only the big book, its all

that I need. And yes I have been repeatedly told that the program is not

religious. And yes the word god repeated 167 times in the only book that I

am supposed to read that is not religious in nature does offend my

intelligence far more than you may understand.

Mike M

At 10:20 AM 01/06/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>I hope none us have to remain angry. I still get angry at

>times and it's only been " officially " 6 days since I've left. I

>haven't found a whole lot of " pure anger " on the

> " aadeprogramming " site. Maybe some anger coupled w/

>inspiration, which is fine. But, I don't find counting how many

>times the word " god " is used to be a constructive use of our

>time. Haven't we wasted enough time already?

[Guest guest]

Hi Sue,

Welcome to the real world. I hope you get angry as hell at all the right

people. Sexual abuse is the most demeaning form of abuse anyone can ever

recieve. You have a right to get angry. You have a right to feel all the

hurt and pain that you are feeling. There are a few books out that deal

with the core issues behind sexual abuse and disfunctional homes, with out

any bullshit steps. If your interested I would be more than happy to send

you the names of them.

Mike M

At 12:29 AM 01/07/2000 GMT, you wrote:

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> Something very different going on for me lately.

>

> In my beginning days of AA, I was told not to blame anyone

> or anything for my drinking or pretty much anything else that

> had happened to me. I was to look for my part in things, and

> realize that others were doing the best they could at the time.

> I should examine my part and forgive them.

>

> Throughtout my life, I have never allowed myself to be angry.

> So, for alot of years, things that anyone else would have been

> hurt or angry about, I was not. That seemed weak to me.

>

> I had to " grow up " at a young age. Always did what I thought

> the adult thing to do was. To me that meant stuffing feelings.

> A good adult wouldn't cry or get mad in my mind. They would

> always hold it together.

>

> I have just begun to see (through questioning AA, and being here)

> that I WAS abused in many ways. (this is a shocking thought

> to me) I was left to grow up without any guidance at all.

> The thought has now occurred to me that that was just plain old

> crappy.

>

> I am just now experiencing anger about alot of things. I was

> raped at 15, and never told a soul. (AA's teachings would have

> me praying for the son of a bitch if I told them)

>

> So, there are alot of new feelings beginning to surface.

>

> I have got to tell you... it feels good to finally allow

> myself this anger.

>

> I just don't want to direct it the wrong way.

>

> Sue

>

> Apple,

>

> Love the new look

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Had an interesting conversation with my mother this evening.

Told her that I was thinking about leaving AA. (sober 1 yr)

To my surprise, she replied:

" That's great. I was so worried about you, but I didn't want

to say anything because I was happy that you weren't drinking.

I found it crazy that you should have to go there forever.

What kind of thinking is that, some kind of cult? I've missed

you. You became so damn humble that you weren't even a

person anymore. You didn't laugh or have opinions like you

used to. "

What a surprise that was!

Thanks for all your help everyone

Sue

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: New look for AA deprogramming -Reply

>Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:58:44 -0800

>

>

>Hi Everyone,

>I didn't mean to offend anyone with the count on the word God,I came across

>it while I was deleting some of the old recovery sites in my bookmarks. Yes

>I am angry, I came from an abusive home and AA was supposed to be my saving

>grace so to speak. I was told at home that I was stupid and would never

>amount to anything, only to come to AA and get told when I questioned the

>fact that the program was Religious that it was spiritual and you could

>have any higher power that you chose, " as long as it was God " . I have been

>told

>over the years that we are alcoholics for a reason, we were chosen to help

>others find a program of living. I have been told to pray away my

>resentments for my father and mother for abandoning me, and they did that

>without ever leaving home. I have been physically, mentally, verbally and

>sexually abused and been told to find where I was wrong and ask for

>forgiveness. I have been told to throw away

>all the self help books that I have and read only the big book, its all

>that I need. And yes I have been repeatedly told that the program is not

>religious. And yes the word god repeated 167 times in the only book that I

>am supposed to read that is not religious in nature does offend my

>intelligence far more than you may understand.

>Mike M

>

>At 10:20 AM 01/06/2000 -0500, you wrote:

> >I hope none us have to remain angry. I still get angry at

> >times and it's only been " officially " 6 days since I've left. I

> >haven't found a whole lot of " pure anger " on the

> > " aadeprogramming " site. Maybe some anger coupled w/

> >inspiration, which is fine. But, I don't find counting how many

> >times the word " god " is used to be a constructive use of our

> >time. Haven't we wasted enough time already?

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime?

>You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it! Sign

>up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation!

>http://click./1/332/1/_/4324/_/947203148

>

>-- Talk to your group with your own voice!

>-- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1

>

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Yaay! Now there's a story I like to hear!

Congrats! (big cyber hug)

Apple

> Hi,

>

> Had an interesting conversation with my mother this evening.

>

> Told her that I was thinking about leaving AA. (sober 1 yr)

>

> To my surprise, she replied:

>

> " That's great. I was so worried about you, but I didn't want

> to say anything because I was happy that you weren't drinking.

> I found it crazy that you should have to go there forever.

> What kind of thinking is that, some kind of cult? I've missed

> you. You became so damn humble that you weren't even a

> person anymore. You didn't laugh or have opinions like you

> used to. "

>

> What a surprise that was!

>

> Thanks for all your help everyone

>

> Sue

[Guest guest]

Yaay! Now there's a story I like to hear!

Congrats! (big cyber hug)

Apple

> Hi,

>

> Had an interesting conversation with my mother this evening.

>

> Told her that I was thinking about leaving AA. (sober 1 yr)

>

> To my surprise, she replied:

>

> " That's great. I was so worried about you, but I didn't want

> to say anything because I was happy that you weren't drinking.

> I found it crazy that you should have to go there forever.

> What kind of thinking is that, some kind of cult? I've missed

> you. You became so damn humble that you weren't even a

> person anymore. You didn't laugh or have opinions like you

> used to. "

>

> What a surprise that was!

>

> Thanks for all your help everyone

>

> Sue

[Guest guest]

Hi Sue,

That's great to hear. I left AA 8 years ago (after 2 years) which provoked

a panic throughout my entire family which consists mostly of 12 steppers

abusers and catatonic abusees. Of course they sat around waiting for me to

drink and drug again while pointing out everything bad that may have been

happening to me at the time as a consequence of not going to meetings. Last

year I began a drug rampage which got me a 1,001 " told you so's. "

I made the decision to abstain a few days ago, but like most people who

successfully recover I will be doing it without the help of the 12 steps. I

feel so much better than when I dragged myself in desperation to an AA

meeting. I know that I can do this and I also know that I don't have to. I

don't need a sponser, I don't need to turn my will over to a god that I

don't believe in and I don't need death or an institution (loaded with AA

recruiters) as an alternative.

My mom is pretty cool with that, but my 12 stepping sister is doing a great

job scaring the crap out of her right now.

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: New look for AA deprogramming -Reply

>Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 04:05:03 GMT

>

> Hi,

>

> Had an interesting conversation with my mother this evening.

>

> Told her that I was thinking about leaving AA. (sober 1 yr)

>

> To my surprise, she replied:

>

> " That's great. I was so worried about you, but I didn't want

> to say anything because I was happy that you weren't drinking.

> I found it crazy that you should have to go there forever.

> What kind of thinking is that, some kind of cult? I've missed

> you. You became so damn humble that you weren't even a

> person anymore. You didn't laugh or have opinions like you

> used to. "

>

> What a surprise that was!

>

> Thanks for all your help everyone

>

> Sue

>

>>

>>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>>Subject: Re: New look for AA deprogramming -Reply

>>Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2000 18:58:44 -0800

>>

>>

>>Hi Everyone,

>>I didn't mean to offend anyone with the count on the word God,I came

>>across

>>it while I was deleting some of the old recovery sites in my bookmarks.

>>Yes

>>I am angry, I came from an abusive home and AA was supposed to be my

>>saving

>>grace so to speak. I was told at home that I was stupid and would never

>>amount to anything, only to come to AA and get told when I questioned the

>>fact that the program was Religious that it was spiritual and you could

>>have any higher power that you chose, " as long as it was God " . I have been

>>told

>>over the years that we are alcoholics for a reason, we were chosen to help

>>others find a program of living. I have been told to pray away my

>>resentments for my father and mother for abandoning me, and they did that

>>without ever leaving home. I have been physically, mentally, verbally and

>>sexually abused and been told to find where I was wrong and ask for

>>forgiveness. I have been told to throw away

>>all the self help books that I have and read only the big book, its all

>>that I need. And yes I have been repeatedly told that the program is not

>>religious. And yes the word god repeated 167 times in the only book that I

>>am supposed to read that is not religious in nature does offend my

>>intelligence far more than you may understand.

>>Mike M

>>

>>At 10:20 AM 01/06/2000 -0500, you wrote:

>> >I hope none us have to remain angry. I still get angry at

>> >times and it's only been " officially " 6 days since I've left. I

>> >haven't found a whole lot of " pure anger " on the

>> > " aadeprogramming " site. Maybe some anger coupled w/

>> >inspiration, which is fine. But, I don't find counting how many

>> >times the word " god " is used to be a constructive use of our

>> >time. Haven't we wasted enough time already?

>>

>>

>>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime?

>>You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it! Sign

>>up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation!

>>http://click./1/332/1/_/4324/_/947203148

>>

>>-- Talk to your group with your own voice!

>>-- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1

>>

>

>______________________________________________________

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Looking for educational tools for you kids?

>Find everything you need at SmarterKids.com

>http://click./1/645/1/_/4324/_/947218447

>

>eGroups.com Home: /group/12-step-free/

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I try being " glad " or " happy " .

The word " grateful " still makes me feel " programmed " . You

do what you are comfortable w/ but I find that for me, the less

I use the words I learned in AA, the quicker I will hopefully

get MY mind back!