Re: Re: Who here has had high RT3 which went down without T3?

[Guest guest]

Because I DID have an RT3 problem (as I have mentioned numerous times) and adopted a wait and see approach with the treatment I am currently on, being Armour. It was recommended to me by the Armour group to join this one also. As time has progressed I stopped reading this group every day, as I was feeling fine on Armour. However, given that I have not yet had the definitive blood test done to measure current RT3 levels, I look in every now and then. If I do end up needing T3 then at least I will have some knowledge of taking it by reading these posts.

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 11:37:19 AMSubject: Re: Who here has had high RT3 which went down without T3?

> I'm not worried about going on T3 - I'm doing very well with my >current treatment (Armour) so why would I want to change to T3? >Unless my doctor recommends it if my next blood test shows elevated >RT3 levels, Might I ask why you are on this list if you don't have an RT3 problem?Dorothy

[Guest guest]

Deb the ppoint is we CAN all get better. YES anyone can GET T3

medications. With or without tetsing if a person is NOT doing well on

Armour then T3 is the role to try but I have NEVER advocated it as a

FIRST med to try for thyroid. But over many year s on thyroid groups, I

have seen many NOT do well on Amrour and I believe the RT3 isue is why.

Thta is whythis group was created. It is a VERY under studied adn under

emphasized treatment fo hypothyroidiosm that happens to WORK very well

for many people. Just as ther are many acare rumours abtou Armou, ther

are even more about T3. It is no more scary than taking Armour and

actually, I feel MUCH safer than taking T4 meds when one properly. but

proper guidelines have to be followed as with ANY thyroid medication. I

have simply watched peopel suffer needlessly for too many years and

OPTIONS for those of us the Amroru was nolonge working for needed to be

found. BTW Armour DID work wonders for me befoer my system became so

screwed uo from 25 years of T4 meds. I even THOUGHT it was workin for me

after my serious illness, but I was wrong. It was MUICH better than the

T4 i had been oin, but it was creatign an RT3 issue fvrom the first time

back on it. Of course NO doctor was testign my RT3 so I have suffered

for the last 15 years with high RT3 which was trashing my adrenals.

Armoru nor armour with T3 did not correct the issues. Even now with

totally cleared RT3 when I go back to Armoru I stilget RT3 back againso

something is not right with my system, but there it is, hwo many others

are liek me? Apparently quite a few as this list si growing in leaps and

bounds so I am not the only one with Rt3 that will nto gp away on it;'s

own. If it does for some folks HOORAY!!! but fo rthose of us that ti

doesn't, this list is here to guide them for proper treatment with T3 onyl.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

Deb the ppoint is we CAN all get better. YES anyone can GET T3

medications. With or without tetsing if a person is NOT doing well on

Armour then T3 is the role to try but I have NEVER advocated it as a

FIRST med to try for thyroid. But over many year s on thyroid groups, I

have seen many NOT do well on Amrour and I believe the RT3 isue is why.

Thta is whythis group was created. It is a VERY under studied adn under

emphasized treatment fo hypothyroidiosm that happens to WORK very well

for many people. Just as ther are many acare rumours abtou Armou, ther

are even more about T3. It is no more scary than taking Armour and

actually, I feel MUCH safer than taking T4 meds when one properly. but

proper guidelines have to be followed as with ANY thyroid medication. I

have simply watched peopel suffer needlessly for too many years and

OPTIONS for those of us the Amroru was nolonge working for needed to be

found. BTW Armour DID work wonders for me befoer my system became so

screwed uo from 25 years of T4 meds. I even THOUGHT it was workin for me

after my serious illness, but I was wrong. It was MUICH better than the

T4 i had been oin, but it was creatign an RT3 issue fvrom the first time

back on it. Of course NO doctor was testign my RT3 so I have suffered

for the last 15 years with high RT3 which was trashing my adrenals.

Armoru nor armour with T3 did not correct the issues. Even now with

totally cleared RT3 when I go back to Armoru I stilget RT3 back againso

something is not right with my system, but there it is, hwo many others

are liek me? Apparently quite a few as this list si growing in leaps and

bounds so I am not the only one with Rt3 that will nto gp away on it;'s

own. If it does for some folks HOORAY!!! but fo rthose of us that ti

doesn't, this list is here to guide them for proper treatment with T3 onyl.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

Deb the ppoint is we CAN all get better. YES anyone can GET T3

medications. With or without tetsing if a person is NOT doing well on

Armour then T3 is the role to try but I have NEVER advocated it as a

FIRST med to try for thyroid. But over many year s on thyroid groups, I

have seen many NOT do well on Amrour and I believe the RT3 isue is why.

Thta is whythis group was created. It is a VERY under studied adn under

emphasized treatment fo hypothyroidiosm that happens to WORK very well

for many people. Just as ther are many acare rumours abtou Armou, ther

are even more about T3. It is no more scary than taking Armour and

actually, I feel MUCH safer than taking T4 meds when one properly. but

proper guidelines have to be followed as with ANY thyroid medication. I

have simply watched peopel suffer needlessly for too many years and

OPTIONS for those of us the Amroru was nolonge working for needed to be

found. BTW Armour DID work wonders for me befoer my system became so

screwed uo from 25 years of T4 meds. I even THOUGHT it was workin for me

after my serious illness, but I was wrong. It was MUICH better than the

T4 i had been oin, but it was creatign an RT3 issue fvrom the first time

back on it. Of course NO doctor was testign my RT3 so I have suffered

for the last 15 years with high RT3 which was trashing my adrenals.

Armoru nor armour with T3 did not correct the issues. Even now with

totally cleared RT3 when I go back to Armoru I stilget RT3 back againso

something is not right with my system, but there it is, hwo many others

are liek me? Apparently quite a few as this list si growing in leaps and

bounds so I am not the only one with Rt3 that will nto gp away on it;'s

own. If it does for some folks HOORAY!!! but fo rthose of us that ti

doesn't, this list is here to guide them for proper treatment with T3 onyl.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

Deb the ppoint is we CAN all get better. YES anyone can GET T3

medications. With or without tetsing if a person is NOT doing well on

Armour then T3 is the role to try but I have NEVER advocated it as a

FIRST med to try for thyroid. But over many year s on thyroid groups, I

have seen many NOT do well on Amrour and I believe the RT3 isue is why.

Thta is whythis group was created. It is a VERY under studied adn under

emphasized treatment fo hypothyroidiosm that happens to WORK very well

for many people. Just as ther are many acare rumours abtou Armou, ther

are even more about T3. It is no more scary than taking Armour and

actually, I feel MUCH safer than taking T4 meds when one properly. but

proper guidelines have to be followed as with ANY thyroid medication. I

have simply watched peopel suffer needlessly for too many years and

OPTIONS for those of us the Amroru was nolonge working for needed to be

found. BTW Armour DID work wonders for me befoer my system became so

screwed uo from 25 years of T4 meds. I even THOUGHT it was workin for me

after my serious illness, but I was wrong. It was MUICH better than the

T4 i had been oin, but it was creatign an RT3 issue fvrom the first time

back on it. Of course NO doctor was testign my RT3 so I have suffered

for the last 15 years with high RT3 which was trashing my adrenals.

Armoru nor armour with T3 did not correct the issues. Even now with

totally cleared RT3 when I go back to Armoru I stilget RT3 back againso

something is not right with my system, but there it is, hwo many others

are liek me? Apparently quite a few as this list si growing in leaps and

bounds so I am not the only one with Rt3 that will nto gp away on it;'s

own. If it does for some folks HOORAY!!! but fo rthose of us that ti

doesn't, this list is here to guide them for proper treatment with T3 onyl.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

Deb the ppoint is we CAN all get better. YES anyone can GET T3

medications. With or without tetsing if a person is NOT doing well on

Armour then T3 is the role to try but I have NEVER advocated it as a

FIRST med to try for thyroid. But over many year s on thyroid groups, I

have seen many NOT do well on Amrour and I believe the RT3 isue is why.

Thta is whythis group was created. It is a VERY under studied adn under

emphasized treatment fo hypothyroidiosm that happens to WORK very well

for many people. Just as ther are many acare rumours abtou Armou, ther

are even more about T3. It is no more scary than taking Armour and

actually, I feel MUCH safer than taking T4 meds when one properly. but

proper guidelines have to be followed as with ANY thyroid medication. I

have simply watched peopel suffer needlessly for too many years and

OPTIONS for those of us the Amroru was nolonge working for needed to be

found. BTW Armour DID work wonders for me befoer my system became so

screwed uo from 25 years of T4 meds

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

I have not heard of antibodies interfereing with conversion, thoughit is

possible. but i fthat was the case everyone with Hashi's should be on T3

or having problems with Armrou and this isn;t so so I think it is a non

issue,

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

Maybe a litle but conversion of T4 oT3 happens ALL over the body not

just in the thyroid so I doubt it,. Antibodies usually attackthe thyriod

itself not the hormones, but there ARE thyroid HORMONE antibodies as

well which we know little about as not much research has been done on

them and they are said to be rare.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

> I do think t3 is

>usefull,and sometimes needed in addition to an existing thyroid med,or

>in place of.,for some,but for rt3,I don't think its true,anymore. Just

>my opinion,I think it makes sense.,after all,how much of an increase in

>sales,I wonder,since the whole rt3,need cytomel? Deb

Personally it took 12 grains of Old Formulation Armour or other

natural thyroid to feel reasonable.

I've settled down on 82 to 100 mcg of T3 and am doing well on that,

better than I was on the 12 grains.

Nick

[Guest guest]

>?It is such a shame that we patients have to try to ferret out the truth.

adjust the information for our own individual biochemical differences and

quirks, get help from other patients and 'battle' the system and our fears of

'messing up' all while being ill.? And?many of us?arrive at?this?point?often

after decades of mismanagement by the system and

>using up valuable financial, emotional, physical and family resources.

The fact that people manage to achieve this WHILE LOST IN BRAIN FOG is

the most amazing part.

Looking it up while feeling well makes you think, in the sea of fog

thinking is hard.

Nick

[Guest guest]

I don't thing that's correct Jonny.  I'm pretty sure there have been people who were able to go to Armour.  That's the idea of course.  Whether it works for everyone is another thing.  Radar....I do believe you have it right.  12 weeks and then try getting back on Armour.  Val herself did it 3 times, so that is the thing to do.  Just because it didn't work for her doesn't mean it doesn't work for some.

I guess I missed that. So now I'm really confused. I thought T3 only was recommended for 12 weeks after which you could transition to Armour. IF RT3 comes back on T4/T3, then you may have to stick with long-term T3 treatment. But I thought recurrent RT3 was somewhat uncommon and those that couldn't transition back to Armour were in the minority?

All along, I have been planning to take T3 for 12 weeks and then go to Naturethroid. Now you've got me thinking that I will probably not be able to do that?

Radar

>

> That was based on something that Val said in a previous post that she has not seen anybody go back to Armour after taking T3 only without get the RT3 back. I can't find where she said it now sorry

>

> Jonny

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

It's just trial and error.  If it works, great if it doesn't that okay too but I totally totally understand the cost issue.  It's horrible.  Having said thought the Mexican cynomel is cheap as anything.

Thanks Birrddy - that's why I was asking for clarification or support for Jonny's statement. I know I am one of many who are trying to clear RT3 by temporary use of T3 only - as is been recommended in the book, on the website, on NTH, NTHA and here. I don't plan long-term T3 treatment unless I have to - primarily due to cost but there are a few other reasons I'd prefer to be able to transition to NT. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Radar

>

> I don't thing that's correct Jonny.  I'm pretty sure there have been people who were able to go to Armour.  That's the idea of course.  Whether it works for everyone is another thing.

>

> Radar....I do believe you have it right.  12 weeks and then try getting back on Armour.  Val herself did it 3 times, so that is the thing to do.  Just because it didn't work for her doesn't mean it doesn't work for some.

>

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I HAVE seen several go back to Armour successfully. But I have not had

luck goin back and I have sen others not able to go back so I think it

has to do with individuals an d if oyu are able to find and correct th

ecause of the high RT3 inthe first place,. I have MANY health issuesliek

Diabtes and undetectable IGF-1 with either one could be the cause of my

converion issues. but that does NOT mean others cannot go ba to Amroru

successfully.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

Radar,That is my plan too. T3 (once I reach optimal level) for ~12 weeks, then I'll try Naturethroid, as I don't care to go back to Armour since the reformulation. I often wonder if I'll get myself into the same mess again, but you said it well: "I'll cross that bridge when I come to it." =)To: RT3_T3 Sent: Friday, May 29, 2009 5:58:05 PMSubject: Re: Who here has had high RT3 which went down without T3?

Thanks Birrddy - that's why I was asking for clarification or support for Jonny's statement. I know I am one of many who are trying to clear RT3 by temporary use of T3 only - as is been recommended in the book, on the website, on NTH, NTHA and here. I don't plan long-term T3 treatment unless I have to - primarily due to cost but there are a few other reasons I'd prefer to be able to transition to NT. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Radar

>

> I don't thing that's correct Jonny. I'm pretty sure there have been people who were able to go to Armour. That's the idea of course. Whether it works for everyone is another thing.

>

> Radar....I do believe you have it right. 12 weeks and then try getting back on Armour. Val herself did it 3 times, so that is the thing to do. Just because it didn't work for her doesn't mean it doesn't work for some.

>

[Guest guest]

That is so true. I can honestly say that the weeks of research I did whilst suffering high RT3, (feeling wiped out by breakfast each day, falling asleep, struggling to even feel motivated to have a shower and get dressed each day) was hard going. I knew I was onto something when I recognised all the symptoms as described as s Syndrome, but without a doctor or even another person to educate me and tell me what to look for, it was days and days of reading, printing, and even calling the Armour manufacturer in the USA for information. The icing on the cake was when I went to see my trusted GP, armed with all my information in a neat folder, confident that she would help me, and I was ridiculed, laughed at, and told I thought I had a "medical degree after a few hours on the

internet". Anti-depressants were her solution to the problem. I walked out and never went back. It's been a long road, and I was on my last legs after all those lifeless years on thyroxine (evil drug).

Adrienne

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 4:30:24 AMSubject: Re: Re: Who here has had high RT3 which went down without T3?

>?It is such a shame that we patients have to try to ferret out the truth. adjust the information for our own individual biochemical differences and quirks, get help from other patients and 'battle' the system and our fears of 'messing up' all while being ill.? And?many of us?arrive at?this?point? often after decades of mismanagement by the system and >using up valuable financial, emotional, physical and family resources.The fact that people manage to achieve this WHILE LOST IN BRAIN FOG isthe most amazing part.Looking it up while feeling well makes you think, in the sea of fogthinking is hard.Nick

[Guest guest]

Ive had a half a dozen doctors insult me, look down on me, talk behind my back, roll their eyes at me, and yes offer me anti depressants. All this to protect their small minded egos. I also went in wide eyed each time with typed up lists of how I had been feeling etc, hoping to be a "good patient" and help the dr by being clear.....of my gosh, how humiliating and horribly hurtful to find out that the joke was on me. They were NOT there to help me..just to mock me. really awful. I have been tramatized by drs that know nothing yet use their ugly power to intimidate.

I cannot tell you how wonderful it feels to have finally rejected that power. Now I just wish I 20 and could become a naturopath, and actually help people.>?It is such a shame that we patients have to try to ferret out the truth. adjust the information for our own individual biochemical differences and quirks, get help from other patients and 'battle' the system and our fears of 'messing up' all while being ill.? And?many of us?arrive at?this?point? often after decades of mismanagement by the system and >using up valuable financial, emotional, physical and family resources.The fact that people manage to achieve this WHILE LOST IN BRAIN FOG isthe most amazing part.Looking it up while feeling well makes you think, in the sea of fogthinking is hard.Nick

[Guest guest]

You won't know til you try. And if you try and it comes back, then maybe

there are other issues that need work.

Janis Whitcomb, Auburn, WA

janisw2@...

http://trotting-horse.com/

http://www.cafepress.com/trotting_horse

Re: Who here has had high RT3 which went down without T3?

>I guess I missed that. So now I'm really confused. I thought T3 only was

>recommended for 12 weeks after which you could transition to Armour. IF RT3

>comes back on T4/T3, then you may have to stick with long-term T3

>treatment. But I thought recurrent RT3 was somewhat uncommon and those that

>couldn't transition back to Armour were in the minority?

>

> All along, I have been planning to take T3 for 12 weeks and then go to

> Naturethroid. Now you've got me thinking that I will probably not be able

> to do that?

>

> Radar

[Guest guest]

They do that when they are feeling inferior. Best defense is a good offense.

And they have good reason to feel inferior, knowing so little about

something so important.

Janis Whitcomb, Auburn, WA

janisw2@...

http://trotting-horse.com/

http://www.cafepress.com/trotting_horse

Re: Re: Who here has had high RT3 which went down without

T3?

Ive had a half a dozen doctors insult me, look down on me, talk behind my

back, roll their eyes at me, and yes offer me anti depressants. All this to

protect their small minded egos. I also went in wide eyed each time with

typed up lists of how I had been feeling etc, hoping to be a " good patient "

and help the dr by being clear.....of my gosh, how humiliating and horribly

hurtful to find out that the joke was on me. They were NOT there to help

me..just to mock me. really awful. I have been tramatized by drs that know

nothing yet use their ugly power to intimidate.

I cannot tell you how wonderful it feels to have finally rejected that

power. Now I just wish I 20 and could become a naturopath, and actually help

people.

[Guest guest]

Bloody awful isn't it, they spend all those years training to help people, then manage to be rude, condescending, arrogant and patronising. I too had typed up lists, temperature charts etc a lot of careful preparation so I would be taken seriously. I was never trying to be "a doctor", but an informed patient. Three bad experiences and I am happy I've got the current doctor to help me with the thyroid issue. My narrow--minded endo I still see for type 1 diabetes is another story...... looks down her nose at me and tells me I will suffer a heart attack and osteoperosis by taking Armour. I am in the process of searching for a new endo!

Adrienne

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 3:51:54 PMSubject: Re: Re: Who here has had high RT3 which went down without T3?

Ive had a half a dozen doctors insult me, look down on me, talk behind my back, roll their eyes at me, and yes offer me anti depressants. All this to protect their small minded egos. I also went in wide eyed each time with typed up lists of how I had been feeling etc, hoping to be a "good patient" and help the dr by being clear.....of my gosh, how humiliating and horribly hurtful to find out that the joke was on me. They were NOT there to help me..just to mock me. really awful. I have been tramatized by drs that know nothing yet use their ugly power to intimidate.

I cannot tell you how wonderful it feels to have finally rejected that power. Now I just wish I 20 and could become a naturopath, and actually help people.>?It is such a shame that we patients have to try to ferret out the truth. adjust the information for our own individual biochemical differences and quirks, get help from other patients and 'battle' the system and our fears of 'messing up' all while being ill.? And?many of us?arrive at?this?point? often after decades of mismanagement by the system and >using up valuable financial, emotional, physical and family resources.The fact that people manage to achieve this WHILE LOST IN BRAIN FOG isthe most amazing part.Looking it up while feeling well makes you think, in the sea of fogthinking is hard.Nick

[Guest guest]

Milena if you could get iron infusions you could possibly start T3 the

next week,. It is by far the fastest way to get ferritin up. That is the

main thing and are you graphing your tmeps per www.drrind.com ? That is

vital to knwo when your adrneal support is right to tolerate an use

thyrio properly.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

First you are not doing the temops correctly. Mine fluctuate from

98.2-98.4 to 99 by the end of the day eveyr day but they are stable

meaning when I take them three times a day as Dr rind tells us how to

do, and average them the average from one day to the next os within 2

tenths of a degree. THSI is stable temps showing proper adrneal support.

Fluctuations during the day are perfectly normal.

It is TOTAL BUNK that HC shuts adnreals down permanently and you can

never get off it. I was on it for 3.5 years on 30-40mg a day and now

have been off for 7 months with healed adrenals.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

>>Val has gently reminded me of the times for natural cortisol rhythym<<

I had not heard this. What are the times?

Janis Whitcomb, Auburn, WA

janisw2@...

http://trotting-horse.com/

http://www.cafepress.com/trotting_horse

[Guest guest]

I'm curious why you say high FT3 "also suggests high RT3". Can you explain this to me? I haven't heard of this before.

When my RT3 was really high, my FT3 levels were mid-range.

Adrienne

To: RT3_T3 Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:09:45 AMSubject: Re: Who here has had high RT3 which went down without T3?

Oh I am sorry for that then, I don't know why I thought I read that.That makes me want to try T3 even more. I was a little bit anxious about being on T3 forever as I feel there must be a reason why the body produces T4, T2, calcitonin etc.I think I will try T3 unless Dr P has a very good reason for me not too. Even if he doesn't think I need it. Im just too fed up of not feeling good and it seems there is nothing to lose by trying it. And plus lots of people have done it with improvements. Im quite excited about it now!It seems logical that High RT3 is the reason I have been on Armour for over 1 1/2 years without feeling great. oh except for when I got up to 3.5 grains and my blood FT3 was 9 (2.8-6.5), which also suggests high RT3. My adrenals crashed tho when I pushed it to 4 grains.What I don't understand is why Dr Low and Dr P and many other docs for that matter seem to ignore RT3? it seems logical for me that is

there is something in the blood that is known to block T3, then this needs to be dealt with..ThanksJonny

[Guest guest]

High FT4 suggests high RT3 not high FT3

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/