Re: unsolicited cookies

[Guest guest]

> Do I have to feel guilty for eating the cookies and not saying thank you to

nada? Is it ok to just let my signature at the post office speak for itself?

>

Walking, if you truly believe acknowedging the gift would open to the door to

great unpleasantness then it's best not to. Your signature does count.

Probably your nada will ask the relative who interceded for you whether you got

the heirloom too. The giving of unsolicited things - especially those cookies

- is a huge lure to affect your guilt maybe remind you of a few happier memories

you had with her. Maybe spend some time to review your initial NC decision and

reasons for it and you'll get some clarity.

[Guest guest]

Hi Walking to Happiness,

I understand and really relate to your predicament, but I 100% support your

route of not responding. Your nada knows you safely received the package because

she tracked it. I understand you not wanting to put your fada in the middle of

it, although I'm sure he knows you received it (via nada's tracking). If you

decide to tell the member of your FOO who arranged it, I'm sure it will get back

to your nada even if you don't ask.

As strange as it might sound to others (to non-KOs), I think it's wise to just

enjoy your cookies privately without putting yourself in the stressful situation

of explaining them to your friends. I hope you can just enjoy them and savor

them for what they are, and not let them draw you back into a dynamic that is

unhealthy for you. (And someone once pointed out to me that I don't owe an

explanation to anyone. I tend to be obsessed with honesty, and I feel the need

to explain everything. I have to remind myself that it's okay to keep some

things private.)

I feel like I'm not expressing myself well at all. Your post really tugged at my

heartstrings for you, so I really wanted to respond in case any of it helps.

I don't mean this next part to sound heartless or cold toward people with BPD,

but it's taken me decades to realize that these momentary gestures from nadas

tend to quickly disintegrate if you respond. My mom has done similar things (and

only when I've distanced myself from her and she's trying to get me back under

her control-- not just to be nice for no other reason than being nice). But it

feels so good to get a taste of something that feels like motherhood. I almost

have to distance myself from it in my mind and realize that although it's a

seemingly nice gesture, it can more than often be a lure to get you back where

they want you. When I used to be on a cycle of falling for my mom's tactics, her

occasional gestures would seem so genuine and I would feel the need to respond,

and then she'd quickly turn on me-- sometimes with an even stronger vengeance to

punish me for standing my ground. Almost like she resented herself for having to

stoop to playing nice to get me back in her grips.

For your nada, maybe it's a tactic, and maybe not. Maybe it's a moment of

niceness from her. But either way, in my experience it can cause more harm than

good (for both parties) to respond. I would just enjoy/savor the cookies and

resist responding and choose not to put myself in a situation where I have to

explain anything to anyone else who doesn't understand the full picture.

I'm so happy to hear that she actually sent you the heirloom! (I'm afraid to let

my mom know the one or two things that have sentimental value for me, because

she has a history of destroying the things I care about.)

Hope this rambling is somehow helpful. I tend to 'lurk' and resist responding

because I'm so afraid of giving bad advice, but I could really relate to your

post-- the situation, the guilt, the difficult position of dealing with other

FOO members, etc. Let us know what you decide to do.

~Saturday

To: WTOAdultChildren1

From: walkingto_happiness@...

Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 14:31:37 +0000

Subject: unsolicited cookies

Hi my friends,

As many of you know, I have been NC for almost 4 years. There are days when it

was hard, but most of the time I have a calm and peaceful life and THAT is

worth it!

So, recently, I had some extended FOO relatives visit me, and they have their

own dynamics, but they certainly are an advocate for me with nada and my FOO.

They don't agree that she has a mental illness (they say " don't diagnose your

mother! " and scold me) but they do aknowledge that something is really wierd and

off in that household and they certainly aknowledge my pain, because they know

nada. They just don't have to deal with her very often, so it's not as pressing

of an issue as it was for me, who grew up with daily contact to her.

Anyway, I had taken all of my things out of the FOO house when I went NC.

People on this list really helped me, you encouraged me to do this to avoid any

further involvement and manipulation. I took everything out of the FOO house

and put it in storage until I could deal with it. That was great advice.

However, there were two items that I do wish I had out of the FOO house that I

wasn't able to take at that time. One item is a FOO heirloom, not very big, but

valuable in terms of its significance that it has been passed down for several

generations. I'm not sure how it works, but because of my place in the birth

order or whatever, the heirloom is supposed to be passed to me. I was not able

to get it out of the FOO household at the time I went NC because, frankly, I

forgot to ask about it.

Well, the relatives who recenlty visited me brought it up, they know about this

heirloom, and they asked me if I had it. I said, no, it's still at nada's

house. My relative interceded for me, and per my instructions, asked nada to

mail it to me. I have a PO BOX and nada obliged, sending it with registered

mail. She probably was all agreeable simply because she wants to appear lovely

to the relative; it was really good to have someone else on my side.

So, yesterday, I went to the post office, picked up the package and signed for

it. I had to show my ID, and etc since it was registered and secured and all

that. Nada must know that I received it, since I am not complaining and since

the post office can tell her I signed for it with my ID, etc.

I am really really glad I now have this heirloom in my possession, since it

connects me to previous generations. However, nada put more stuff in the

package, and that is why I am writing this email. It could never be easy and

uncomplicated with a nada, right? I need advice on how to handle this.

Nada put a large box of special homemade cookies, that I really like. it was

really nice, because I obviously haven't eaten these in years. It's this

complicated recipe that she makes. My nada is a good baker, I have to admit

that. She also put a box of expensive choclates and other gifts. Basically, it

was a really big package with the small heirloom just a tiny part of it.

I know this is nada's way of trying to guilt me into contact. I appreciate the

cookies and the gifts, and if this were a normal person who reacts to things in

a normal way, I would absolutely thank them with either a phone call, an email,

or a note. But this is nada...

I have to hide the cookies because I don't want my friends to see them. Imagine

a friend asking me, who sent you those? And I would answer, my mother, but I

don't know whether I should thank her. I can just anticipate my friends telling

me, that my mother is so nice, she sends a big box of gifts... it's creepy. I

have to hide them, and I'm not sharing them with friends because they won't

understand why a box of cookies is worrisome.

I don't want to break my contact under any circumstances. I also know this is

not an apology or aknowledgement for any of the pain nada has caused me,

especially how she raged at me the last time I saw her 4 years ago.

Yet I do feel guilt because I am not thanking someone for a gift. I also know

nada will get anxious if she doesn't know IMMEDIATELY whether the heirloom made

it here safely. I know I will hear about this from other people, anyone she

can tell how ungrateful her daughter is. How she reaches out to her daughter,

how much work she put into those cookies, and how much it cost to mail such a

big package (all of $27) and that I am just ungrateful.

If I do thank her, I get drawn into interactions I don't want to be in.

I think I will take the route of not responding. She knows the package was

received, because knowing her and her anxiety levels, she's probably been

tracking the package on the internet every day since she mailed it.

Also, I thought about letting fada (who I'm in RC with over email sometimes)

know that it arrived, but he's always in the middle of triangulation, I'll leave

the poor man out of it.

I suppose I could let the other relative, the one who arranged all of this know,

but she, like a normal person not used to the FOO dynamics, would not realize

that she is supposed to tell nada.

Do I have to feel guilty for eating the cookies and not saying thank you to

nada? Is it ok to just let my signature at the post office speak for itself?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Walkingto Happiness.

_________________________________________________________________

Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits.

http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_St\

orage_062009

[Guest guest]

In my humble opinion, eat the cookies and chocolates ... we all need a secret

stash somewhere. She knows you got the pkg; the post office took care of letting

her know that. You did not ask for anything here. I'm glad you had some

advocates who went to bat for you, and happily shocked nada obliged. Rest.

Relax. Breathe. Eat a cookie. You have done nothing wrong. You don't need to

play the game. The fact she sent you what is traditionally yours does not mean

you have to go back to the madness.

My thoughts to take or leave.

[Guest guest]

Walking,

 

I thought I would tell you what I would want you to do if I sent you cookies so

that you can compare.

 

If I sent you cookies I would want you to eat them and enjoy them because I know

you really like them.  I would not care if you called me up to thank me, because

I did not bake you cookies to feel appreciated and worthwhile, but just so you

would have cookies you like.  If you happened to remember the next time we spoke

and mentioned the cookies and thanked me, that would be great, but if it was so

much later that you forgot about it or if you just had something else on your

mind that day and didn't think about it, that would also be okay.  I wouldn't

care, because, again, the point of the cookies was just so that you would be

happy and have cookies you like.

 

I'm sure this was not your nadas intention.  She probably felt like connecting

to you that day and in her fantasy world you feel the same way and miss her.  In

her mind, you would eat the cookies, realize everything is really hunky-dory and

call her up and all would be well.  Meanwhile, nothing would have changed and

she would treat you no differently if you did--possibly worse, because people

who are controlling tend to think the best way to avoid abandonment is to be

even more controlling.

 

If you don't do what she wants, she will be angry with you.  How dare you

interfere with her fantasy by acting out of your real feelings and desires?

 

Best of luck,

Ashana

Cricket on your mind? Visit the ultimate cricket website. Enter

http://beta.cricket.yahoo.com

[Guest guest]

Ashana - GREAT POST !!!!

I Loved it.

It almost wanted me to get these cookies - Mmmmmmmmm

-I like oatmeal (hint hint)

 

Im printing this one out - it helps me to see REAL LOVE with no strings attached

!!

- Steve

Subject: RE: unsolicited cookies

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 1:50 AM

Walking,

 

I thought I would tell you what I would want you to do if I sent you cookies so

that you can compare.

 

If I sent you cookies I would want you to eat them and enjoy them because I know

you really like them.  I would not care if you called me up to thank me,

because I did not bake you cookies to feel appreciated and worthwhile, but just

so you would have cookies you like.  If you happened to remember the next time

we spoke and mentioned the cookies and thanked me, that would be great, but if

it was so much later that you forgot about it or if you just had something else

on your mind that day and didn't think about it, that would also be okay.  I

wouldn't care, because, again, the point of the cookies was just so that you

would be happy and have cookies you like.

 

I'm sure this was not your nadas intention.  She probably felt like connecting

to you that day and in her fantasy world you feel the same way and miss her. 

In her mind, you would eat the cookies, realize everything is really hunky-dory

and call her up and all would be well.  Meanwhile, nothing would have changed

and she would treat you no differently if you did--possibly worse, because

people who are controlling tend to think the best way to avoid abandonment is to

be even more controlling.

 

If you don't do what she wants, she will be angry with you.  How dare you

interfere with her fantasy by acting out of your real feelings and desires?

 

Best of luck,

Ashana

Cricket on your mind? Visit the ultimate cricket website. Enter http://beta.

cricket.yahoo. com

[Guest guest]

I would just leave it at the signature. If you even communicate through anyone

to her, then she wins. Its a trap, its a guilt trip, its anything she can do to

break down your strengh. Just my opinion though.

>

> Hi my friends,

> As many of you know, I have been NC for almost 4 years. There are days when

it was hard, but most of the time I have a calm and peaceful life and THAT is

worth it!

>

> So, recently, I had some extended FOO relatives visit me, and they have their

own dynamics, but they certainly are an advocate for me with nada and my FOO.

They don't agree that she has a mental illness (they say " don't diagnose your

mother! " and scold me) but they do aknowledge that something is really wierd and

off in that household and they certainly aknowledge my pain, because they know

nada. They just don't have to deal with her very often, so it's not as pressing

of an issue as it was for me, who grew up with daily contact to her.

>

> Anyway, I had taken all of my things out of the FOO house when I went NC.

People on this list really helped me, you encouraged me to do this to avoid any

further involvement and manipulation. I took everything out of the FOO house

and put it in storage until I could deal with it. That was great advice.

>

> However, there were two items that I do wish I had out of the FOO house that I

wasn't able to take at that time. One item is a FOO heirloom, not very big, but

valuable in terms of its significance that it has been passed down for several

generations. I'm not sure how it works, but because of my place in the birth

order or whatever, the heirloom is supposed to be passed to me. I was not able

to get it out of the FOO household at the time I went NC because, frankly, I

forgot to ask about it.

>

> Well, the relatives who recenlty visited me brought it up, they know about

this heirloom, and they asked me if I had it. I said, no, it's still at nada's

house. My relative interceded for me, and per my instructions, asked nada to

mail it to me. I have a PO BOX and nada obliged, sending it with registered

mail. She probably was all agreeable simply because she wants to appear lovely

to the relative; it was really good to have someone else on my side.

>

> So, yesterday, I went to the post office, picked up the package and signed for

it. I had to show my ID, and etc since it was registered and secured and all

that. Nada must know that I received it, since I am not complaining and since

the post office can tell her I signed for it with my ID, etc.

>

> I am really really glad I now have this heirloom in my possession, since it

connects me to previous generations. However, nada put more stuff in the

package, and that is why I am writing this email. It could never be easy and

uncomplicated with a nada, right? I need advice on how to handle this.

>

> Nada put a large box of special homemade cookies, that I really like. it was

really nice, because I obviously haven't eaten these in years. It's this

complicated recipe that she makes. My nada is a good baker, I have to admit

that. She also put a box of expensive choclates and other gifts. Basically, it

was a really big package with the small heirloom just a tiny part of it.

>

> I know this is nada's way of trying to guilt me into contact. I appreciate

the cookies and the gifts, and if this were a normal person who reacts to things

in a normal way, I would absolutely thank them with either a phone call, an

email, or a note. But this is nada...

>

> I have to hide the cookies because I don't want my friends to see them.

Imagine a friend asking me, who sent you those? And I would answer, my mother,

but I don't know whether I should thank her. I can just anticipate my friends

telling me, that my mother is so nice, she sends a big box of gifts... it's

creepy. I have to hide them, and I'm not sharing them with friends because they

won't understand why a box of cookies is worrisome.

>

> I don't want to break my contact under any circumstances. I also know this is

not an apology or aknowledgement for any of the pain nada has caused me,

especially how she raged at me the last time I saw her 4 years ago.

>

> Yet I do feel guilt because I am not thanking someone for a gift. I also know

nada will get anxious if she doesn't know IMMEDIATELY whether the heirloom made

it here safely. I know I will hear about this from other people, anyone she

can tell how ungrateful her daughter is. How she reaches out to her daughter,

how much work she put into those cookies, and how much it cost to mail such a

big package (all of $27) and that I am just ungrateful.

>

>

> If I do thank her, I get drawn into interactions I don't want to be in.

>

> I think I will take the route of not responding. She knows the package was

received, because knowing her and her anxiety levels, she's probably been

tracking the package on the internet every day since she mailed it.

>

> Also, I thought about letting fada (who I'm in RC with over email sometimes)

know that it arrived, but he's always in the middle of triangulation, I'll leave

the poor man out of it.

>

> I suppose I could let the other relative, the one who arranged all of this

know, but she, like a normal person not used to the FOO dynamics, would not

realize that she is supposed to tell nada.

>

> Do I have to feel guilty for eating the cookies and not saying thank you to

nada? Is it ok to just let my signature at the post office speak for itself?

>

> Thanks for your thoughts.

> Walkingto Happiness.

>

[Guest guest]

How about mailing a card that simply says " Thanks for the package " ?  

Enjoy the cookies and chocolates.  You've earned them.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for responding, anonymous, I really know what you mean. Realy. Also,

the feeling of having to explain myself to everyone is so something I struggle

with all the time. I am always explaining myself, to peolpe who don't get the

whole picture, and then they say things i perceive as hurtful, and I just can't

seem to keep myself out of life's punching bag.

I too really struggle with keeping things private so that I don't get hurt by

other people mucking around in my own business!!

But thank you for understanding how a box of homemade cookies is really not just

a box of cookies. I think I'll let the USPS track it for them. Let them look

it up on the internet, maybe I'm just to busy to respond, you know?

Walking to.

>

>

> Hi Walking to Happiness,

>

> I understand and really relate to your predicament, but I 100% support your

route of not responding. Your nada knows you safely received the package because

she tracked it. I understand you not wanting to put your fada in the middle of

it, although I'm sure he knows you received it (via nada's tracking). If you

decide to tell the member of your FOO who arranged it, I'm sure it will get back

to your nada even if you don't ask.

>

> As strange as it might sound to others (to non-KOs), I think it's wise to just

enjoy your cookies privately without putting yourself in the stressful situation

of explaining them to your friends. I hope you can just enjoy them and savor

them for what they are, and not let them draw you back into a dynamic that is

unhealthy for you. (And someone once pointed out to me that I don't owe an

explanation to anyone. I tend to be obsessed with honesty, and I feel the need

to explain everything. I have to remind myself that it's okay to keep some

things private.)

>

> I feel like I'm not expressing myself well at all. Your post really tugged at

my heartstrings for you, so I really wanted to respond in case any of it helps.

>

> I don't mean this next part to sound heartless or cold toward people with BPD,

but it's taken me decades to realize that these momentary gestures from nadas

tend to quickly disintegrate if you respond. My mom has done similar things (and

only when I've distanced myself from her and she's trying to get me back under

her control-- not just to be nice for no other reason than being nice). But it

feels so good to get a taste of something that feels like motherhood. I almost

have to distance myself from it in my mind and realize that although it's a

seemingly nice gesture, it can more than often be a lure to get you back where

they want you. When I used to be on a cycle of falling for my mom's tactics, her

occasional gestures would seem so genuine and I would feel the need to respond,

and then she'd quickly turn on me-- sometimes with an even stronger vengeance to

punish me for standing my ground. Almost like she resented herself for having to

stoop to playing nice to get me back in her grips.

>

> For your nada, maybe it's a tactic, and maybe not. Maybe it's a moment of

niceness from her. But either way, in my experience it can cause more harm than

good (for both parties) to respond. I would just enjoy/savor the cookies and

resist responding and choose not to put myself in a situation where I have to

explain anything to anyone else who doesn't understand the full picture.

>

> I'm so happy to hear that she actually sent you the heirloom! (I'm afraid to

let my mom know the one or two things that have sentimental value for me,

because she has a history of destroying the things I care about.)

>

> Hope this rambling is somehow helpful. I tend to 'lurk' and resist responding

because I'm so afraid of giving bad advice, but I could really relate to your

post-- the situation, the guilt, the difficult position of dealing with other

FOO members, etc. Let us know what you decide to do.

>

> ~Saturday

>

>

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> From: walkingto_happiness@...

> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 14:31:37 +0000

> Subject: unsolicited cookies

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi my friends,

>

> As many of you know, I have been NC for almost 4 years. There are days when

it was hard, but most of the time I have a calm and peaceful life and THAT is

worth it!

>

>

>

> So, recently, I had some extended FOO relatives visit me, and they have their

own dynamics, but they certainly are an advocate for me with nada and my FOO.

They don't agree that she has a mental illness (they say " don't diagnose your

mother! " and scold me) but they do aknowledge that something is really wierd and

off in that household and they certainly aknowledge my pain, because they know

nada. They just don't have to deal with her very often, so it's not as pressing

of an issue as it was for me, who grew up with daily contact to her.

>

>

>

> Anyway, I had taken all of my things out of the FOO house when I went NC.

People on this list really helped me, you encouraged me to do this to avoid any

further involvement and manipulation. I took everything out of the FOO house

and put it in storage until I could deal with it. That was great advice.

>

>

>

> However, there were two items that I do wish I had out of the FOO house that I

wasn't able to take at that time. One item is a FOO heirloom, not very big, but

valuable in terms of its significance that it has been passed down for several

generations. I'm not sure how it works, but because of my place in the birth

order or whatever, the heirloom is supposed to be passed to me. I was not able

to get it out of the FOO household at the time I went NC because, frankly, I

forgot to ask about it.

>

>

>

> Well, the relatives who recenlty visited me brought it up, they know about

this heirloom, and they asked me if I had it. I said, no, it's still at nada's

house. My relative interceded for me, and per my instructions, asked nada to

mail it to me. I have a PO BOX and nada obliged, sending it with registered

mail. She probably was all agreeable simply because she wants to appear lovely

to the relative; it was really good to have someone else on my side.

>

>

>

> So, yesterday, I went to the post office, picked up the package and signed for

it. I had to show my ID, and etc since it was registered and secured and all

that. Nada must know that I received it, since I am not complaining and since

the post office can tell her I signed for it with my ID, etc.

>

>

>

> I am really really glad I now have this heirloom in my possession, since it

connects me to previous generations. However, nada put more stuff in the

package, and that is why I am writing this email. It could never be easy and

uncomplicated with a nada, right? I need advice on how to handle this.

>

>

>

> Nada put a large box of special homemade cookies, that I really like. it was

really nice, because I obviously haven't eaten these in years. It's this

complicated recipe that she makes. My nada is a good baker, I have to admit

that. She also put a box of expensive choclates and other gifts. Basically, it

was a really big package with the small heirloom just a tiny part of it.

>

>

>

> I know this is nada's way of trying to guilt me into contact. I appreciate

the cookies and the gifts, and if this were a normal person who reacts to things

in a normal way, I would absolutely thank them with either a phone call, an

email, or a note. But this is nada...

>

>

>

> I have to hide the cookies because I don't want my friends to see them.

Imagine a friend asking me, who sent you those? And I would answer, my mother,

but I don't know whether I should thank her. I can just anticipate my friends

telling me, that my mother is so nice, she sends a big box of gifts... it's

creepy. I have to hide them, and I'm not sharing them with friends because they

won't understand why a box of cookies is worrisome.

>

>

>

> I don't want to break my contact under any circumstances. I also know this is

not an apology or aknowledgement for any of the pain nada has caused me,

especially how she raged at me the last time I saw her 4 years ago.

>

>

>

> Yet I do feel guilt because I am not thanking someone for a gift. I also know

nada will get anxious if she doesn't know IMMEDIATELY whether the heirloom made

it here safely. I know I will hear about this from other people, anyone she

can tell how ungrateful her daughter is. How she reaches out to her daughter,

how much work she put into those cookies, and how much it cost to mail such a

big package (all of $27) and that I am just ungrateful.

>

>

>

> If I do thank her, I get drawn into interactions I don't want to be in.

>

>

>

> I think I will take the route of not responding. She knows the package was

received, because knowing her and her anxiety levels, she's probably been

tracking the package on the internet every day since she mailed it.

>

>

>

> Also, I thought about letting fada (who I'm in RC with over email sometimes)

know that it arrived, but he's always in the middle of triangulation, I'll leave

the poor man out of it.

>

>

>

> I suppose I could let the other relative, the one who arranged all of this

know, but she, like a normal person not used to the FOO dynamics, would not

realize that she is supposed to tell nada.

>

>

>

> Do I have to feel guilty for eating the cookies and not saying thank you to

nada? Is it ok to just let my signature at the post office speak for itself?

>

>

>

> Thanks for your thoughts.

>

> Walkingto Happiness.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don't worry about storage limits.

>

http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_St\

orage_062009

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks to everyone for the doses of sanity in your replies.

Walkingto

>

> In my humble opinion, eat the cookies and chocolates ... we all need a secret

stash somewhere. She knows you got the pkg; the post office took care of letting

her know that. You did not ask for anything here. I'm glad you had some

advocates who went to bat for you, and happily shocked nada obliged. Rest.

Relax. Breathe. Eat a cookie. You have done nothing wrong. You don't need to

play the game. The fact she sent you what is traditionally yours does not mean

you have to go back to the madness.

>

> My thoughts to take or leave.

>

>

>