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Trixxi:

I considered myself a sex addict for a time and I am not gay, but my ex

was bi-leaning towards gay or asexual. I had to somehow rationalize

why I wanted sex more than he did (2x per month). Did the whole

" questionnaire " and comparison thing with my so-called " friends " in AA.

In the end, I simply found a sexual match. He's ready whenever I am

and vice-versa. So much for my " addiction " :)

butterbean-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10012

> I think using the term " honest program " to be verbally tactless has

to be

> one of the stupidest excuses for some cretin to say anything he/she

wants,

> without disregard for others.

> Just another AA slogan bent way out of proportion LIKE EVERY OTHER 12

STEP

> SLOGAN.

> Yeck! Never again.....

> Oh, and as far as G/L/B/T geared 12-step centers are concerned, Pride

> Institute in (WHAT A SHOCK) Eden Prairie, MN was the LAST 12-step

hell hotel

> I will EVER stick my foot into. They don't just find you as a

druggie or a

> drunk, they go WAY out of their minds to find other things like " SEX

> ADDICTION " . Needless to say, alot of gays are promiscuous...it's

part of

> the nature of gay culture. But good ol' Pride Institute will slap a

" sex

> addict " label on you REAL quick if they find out about 'cruising' and

> 'non-monogamous' behavior.

> SO - no more partying, no more " sex for fun " ...what the hell is there

to

> do....???

> Go to a #$%! meeting and hug everyone that you REALLY want to go jump

in the

> sack with!

> HA!

> ~Trixxi

>

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Whatever happened to defining things as a passion? Was Michelangelo a

sculpting addict? Was Edgar Poe addicted to writing? Is Martha

addicted to crafts? When I recontextualized my " addictions " to

passions, the attached guilt went away, and I was able to enjoy them

once again.

Apple

" wendy rose " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10015

> Trixxi:

>

> I considered myself a sex addict for a time and I am not gay, but my

ex

> was bi-leaning towards gay or asexual. I had to somehow rationalize

> why I wanted sex more than he did (2x per month). Did the whole

> " questionnaire " and comparison thing with my so-called " friends " in

AA.

>

> In the end, I simply found a sexual match. He's ready whenever I am

> and vice-versa. So much for my " addiction " :)

>

>

>

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Apple: My address is PO Box 82442 Albuquerque, New Mexico 87198!!!!! Where

can I send you a check? I can't wait to start " sticking around " meetings

again. Oh boy, oh boy, you have made my day! Let's go! Kathy

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Apple:

Well said ! I have found being passionate is healthy providing the object

of my passion is one that is not self-defeating. Some say that I traded my

drug addiction in for a running addiction.

Bullshit!

Re: " Honest Program "

> Whatever happened to defining things as a passion? Was Michelangelo a

> sculpting addict? Was Edgar Poe addicted to writing? Is Martha

> addicted to crafts? When I recontextualized my " addictions " to

> passions, the attached guilt went away, and I was able to enjoy them

> once again.

> Apple

>

> " wendy rose " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10015

> > Trixxi:

> >

> > I considered myself a sex addict for a time and I am not gay, but my

> ex

> > was bi-leaning towards gay or asexual. I had to somehow rationalize

> > why I wanted sex more than he did (2x per month). Did the whole

> > " questionnaire " and comparison thing with my so-called " friends " in

> AA.

> >

> > In the end, I simply found a sexual match. He's ready whenever I am

> > and vice-versa. So much for my " addiction " :)

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- Talk to your group with your own voice!

> -- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

>

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I agree. I spend NUMEROUS hours online and have heard rumors of " internet

addication " b.s. but if I didn't have this p.c. I would be REAL tempted to

stroll off someplace potentially dangerous due to boredom.

~Trixxi

Re: " Honest Program "

>

>

> > Whatever happened to defining things as a passion? Was Michelangelo a

> > sculpting addict? Was Edgar Poe addicted to writing? Is Martha

> > addicted to crafts? When I recontextualized my " addictions " to

> > passions, the attached guilt went away, and I was able to enjoy them

> > once again.

> > Apple

> >

> > " wendy rose " wrote:

> > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10015

> > > Trixxi:

> > >

> > > I considered myself a sex addict for a time and I am not gay, but my

> > ex

> > > was bi-leaning towards gay or asexual. I had to somehow rationalize

> > > why I wanted sex more than he did (2x per month). Did the whole

> > > " questionnaire " and comparison thing with my so-called " friends " in

> > AA.

> > >

> > > In the end, I simply found a sexual match. He's ready whenever I am

> > > and vice-versa. So much for my " addiction " :)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > -- Talk to your group with your own voice!

> > -- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> -- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

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" apple " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10022

> Whatever happened to defining things as a passion? Was Michelangelo a

> sculpting addict? Was Edgar Poe addicted to writing? Is Martha

> addicted to crafts? When I recontextualized my " addictions "

to

> passions, the attached guilt went away, and I was able to enjoy them

> once again.

> Apple

>

Golden Delicious Apple: Yes indeed. When I was checking out my former

hospital's bullshit website, I clicked on the link to Media Anonymous.

God, those people are creepy! " We are powerless over media... " They

define media as just about anything from Dungeons and Dragons to the

internet to novels, probably Etch-a-Sketches as well. I wonder if they

get up at meetings and say, " By the grace of God and the program of

Media Anonymous, I haven't read anything or had any new ideas for 10

years, 6 months and 13 days! "

By the way, do they have the " Washington Apple Guy " commercials where

you are? I find them rather disturbing. Didn't have them in Texas and

when I got here to California to get away from my junkie associates, I

got this icky feeling from seeing that fat guy riding around on his

moped giving apples to lethargic people. But after 8 months, I've

gotten to tolerate them fairly well. Crunch!

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" james klingbeil " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10029

> Apple:

>

> Well said ! I have found being passionate is healthy providing the

object

> of my passion is one that is not self-defeating. Some say that I

traded my

> drug addiction in for a running addiction.

> Bullshit!

I'm a passionate runner too ! In fact, I'm running my first ten

miler on Saturday. The Hot Chocolate Ten Miler to be exact, sponsored

by the New York Road Runner's Club. Race is in Central Park, NYC. (the

Big Apple)

By the way, the DECALS CAME IN!!!! THEY LOOK GREAT!!!! I HAVE 4000 OF

THEM... E-MAIL ME YOUR ADDRESSES FOLKS. I have yours .

Apple

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nope, never seen 'em. Sounds pretty strange tho.

Apple

>

> By the way, do they have the " Washington Apple Guy " commercials where

> you are? I find them rather disturbing. Didn't have them in Texas and

> when I got here to California to get away from my junkie associates, I

> got this icky feeling from seeing that fat guy riding around on his

> moped giving apples to lethargic people. But after 8 months, I've

> gotten to tolerate them fairly well. Crunch!

>

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Decals? What do they say???

~Trixxi

Re: " Honest Program "

> " james klingbeil " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10029

> > Apple:

> >

> > Well said ! I have found being passionate is healthy providing the

> object

> > of my passion is one that is not self-defeating. Some say that I

> traded my

> > drug addiction in for a running addiction.

> > Bullshit!

>

> I'm a passionate runner too ! In fact, I'm running my first ten

> miler on Saturday. The Hot Chocolate Ten Miler to be exact, sponsored

> by the New York Road Runner's Club. Race is in Central Park, NYC. (the

> Big Apple)

>

> By the way, the DECALS CAME IN!!!! THEY LOOK GREAT!!!! I HAVE 4000 OF

> THEM... E-MAIL ME YOUR ADDRESSES FOLKS. I have yours .

> Apple

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> A Proud Member of the One & Only Associate Network

> http://clickhere./click/1709

>

> eGroups.com Home: /group/12-step-free/

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

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Get Honest! God I hate that term. It simply means your not telling me what I

want to hear therefore your not being honest. They define whats honest and

not you. If you knew how many lies Ive told because I was told I wasnt being

honest enough you would die.

Louree

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Hi Trixxi, folks,

The guy who runs the 12-step hell-hole I was in was also my sponsor for

a long time, and when I first met him, he insisted I was " more

homosexual than heterosexual " , based on a few meetings and his

" feelings " - something he later changed his mind about when I started

to fall in love with all the skinny anorexic girls I met in OA. He

insisted that I shouldn't be bothered about this because it was

" genetic " like his beloved hobby horse, " addictive disease " .

Later, he forged an alliance with psychiatrist Glasser, creator

of " Reality Therapy " . the stted views of Glasser I contend flatly

contradict those of the whole 12-step/disease model juggernaut, but it

seems to be commonplace with nutty shrinks that they are able to

reconcile what are in reality irreconciable views if they value a

professional friendship highly enough.

Glasser insists that homosexuality is not a mentally healthy lifestyle

and insists thay gay patients should be encouraged to be more

" masculine " , which to him means not be gay (and conversely for

lesbians), and my ex-sponsor has apparently adopted this view with his

inmates.

I met a lawyer the other day, American , I am happy to report, who

seems to be making a apeciality of suing my ex-sponsor; apparently a

former patient is suing on the basis of my ex-sponsor's heterosexist

techniques.

Pete

butterbean-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10012

> I think using the term " honest program " to be verbally tactless has

to be

> one of the stupidest excuses for some cretin to say anything he/she

wants,

> without disregard for others.

> Just another AA slogan bent way out of proportion LIKE EVERY OTHER 12

STEP

> SLOGAN.

> Yeck! Never again.....

> Oh, and as far as G/L/B/T geared 12-step centers are concerned, Pride

> Institute in (WHAT A SHOCK) Eden Prairie, MN was the LAST 12-step

hell hotel

> I will EVER stick my foot into. They don't just find you as a

druggie or a

> drunk, they go WAY out of their minds to find other things like " SEX

> ADDICTION " . Needless to say, alot of gays are promiscuous...it's

part of

> the nature of gay culture. But good ol' Pride Institute will slap a

" sex

> addict " label on you REAL quick if they find out about 'cruising' and

> 'non-monogamous' behavior.

> SO - no more partying, no more " sex for fun " ...what the hell is there

to

> do....???

> Go to a #$%! meeting and hug everyone that you REALLY want to go jump

in the

> sack with!

> HA!

> ~Trixxi

>

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Right on, and thanks for saying this!

Sometimes it seems like we are in the middle of a " cultural wave " in which

Puritanism is coming back disguised as (pseudo-)scientific addiction talk.

(Puritanism: the haunting fear that somebody, somewhere, might be having a

good time -- as Ambrose Bierce put it, approximately.) Instead of " Don't do

that, you'll go to hell " it's " Don't do that, you'll lose control. "

And it's quite noticeable that what is considered addictive changes over

time, with changing fashions in personal morality. For example, Stanton

Peele's first book " Love and Addiction " (1975) was mostly about

relationships that are too monogamous -- too exclusive! And people actually

worried about " workaholism " back then, and being addicted to the empty

pursuit of material goods. Imagine that! Probably all sounds rather quaint

to you kids :-)

--wally

-----Original Message-----

>Whatever happened to defining things as a passion? Was Michelangelo a

>sculpting addict? Was Edgar Poe addicted to writing? Is Martha

> addicted to crafts? When I recontextualized my " addictions " to

>passions, the attached guilt went away, and I was able to enjoy them

>once again.

>Apple

>

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butterbean-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10041

> Decals? What do they say???

> ~Trixxi

The decals are four inch round vinyl stickers with a protective

coating. The adhesive is the super sticky kind. (hard to peel off).

It's a blue background with white edge, and a white edged triangle

inside. (The AA logo). Inside and just below the triangle in slightly

lighter blue (so it's subtle) is the message:

Some things about The Program never felt quite right.

(now I know why!)

www.AAdeprogramming.com

Apple

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There will be " suggested dontation " instructions inside the package, as

well as fun prankster tips. For example, sticking them in strange

places, like the middle of the woods, so steppers who may find it think

THEIR HIGHER POWER put it there! There are no coincidences!

ha ha ha... , hey, what is your last name, or should I just send it to

Kathy? Sounds kinda Twelve Step Free Anonymous. Please send it too,

maybe go to my site and send it to that address.

Apple

balihai33-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10044

> Apple: My address is PO Box 82442 Albuquerque, New Mexico 87198!!!!!

Where

> can I send you a check? I can't wait to start " sticking around "

meetings

> again. Oh boy, oh boy, you have made my day! Let's go! Kathy

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Apple:

My address is P.O. Box 448 Sheridan WY 82801.

Please send me a few as well. Thanks. Since Wyoming only has a total pop.

of 475k, that many stickers will work just fine :-----)

Thanks

Original Message -----

To: <12-step-freeegroups>

Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 9:28 PM

Subject: Re: " Honest Program "

> Apple: My address is PO Box 82442 Albuquerque, New Mexico 87198!!!!!

Where

> can I send you a check? I can't wait to start " sticking around " meetings

> again. Oh boy, oh boy, you have made my day! Let's go! Kathy

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> A Proud Member of the One & Only Associate Network

> http://clickhere./click/1709

>

> -- Easily schedule meetings and events using the group calendar!

> -- /cal?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

>

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I like that word *passion*

Works very well in defining my feelings in my relationship.

Sounds, warm, inviting and comfortable-PERFECT!

No guilt here!

Thanks!

" apple " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10022

> Whatever happened to defining things as a passion? Was Michelangelo a

> sculpting addict? Was Edgar Poe addicted to writing? Is Martha

> addicted to crafts? When I recontextualized my " addictions "

to

> passions, the attached guilt went away, and I was able to enjoy them

> once again.

> Apple

>

> " wendy rose " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=100

15

> > Trixxi:

> >

> > I considered myself a sex addict for a time and I am not gay, but my

> ex

> > was bi-leaning towards gay or asexual. I had to somehow rationalize

> > why I wanted sex more than he did (2x per month). Did the whole

> > " questionnaire " and comparison thing with my so-called " friends " in

> AA.

> >

> > In the end, I simply found a sexual match. He's ready whenever I am

> > and vice-versa. So much for my " addiction " :)

> >

> >

> >

>

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Hey, I'll buy some of them from you! How much do they cost?

~Trixxi

Re: " Honest Program "

> butterbean-@... wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10041

> > Decals? What do they say???

> > ~Trixxi

>

> The decals are four inch round vinyl stickers with a protective

> coating. The adhesive is the super sticky kind. (hard to peel off).

> It's a blue background with white edge, and a white edged triangle

> inside. (The AA logo). Inside and just below the triangle in slightly

> lighter blue (so it's subtle) is the message:

>

> Some things about The Program never felt quite right.

>

> (now I know why!)

>

> www.AAdeprogramming.com

>

>

> Apple

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- Talk to your group with your own voice!

> -- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

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One of my " favorite " meetings (being that it was the one that probably more

than any other led me eventually to leave) was " Q & A Night, " when everyone

present would write down questions and give them to the chairperson, who

would ask them one by one and people who had been around awhile would usually

answer them. Never have I heard more bullshitty, evasive, retarded " answers "

to questions than in that meeting. I have found it disturbing that out of the

@100 people who attended there, almost every single one of them bought the

program party line wholesale, believing it like the planet under their feet.

There were people who had been there for years, and some even were critical

of " the bullshit " (and there certainly was plenty of it) but still they

stayed, endlessly following sponsor's orders, believing wholeheartedly that

they would surely die if they left. I guess sentences like " we are like men

who have lost their legs--they never grow new ones " are effective

brainwashing tools. I'm pretty angry about all the time and energy I wasted

on all that crap.

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it is brainwashing. its all a system of limiting your world and choices

you believe you make for yourself. if you can make some stay in your

group, (even if they dont enjoy being there any longer) all because

they have been told they will kill themselves, go to jail, die, or be

institutionalized if they choose to leave, thats a very powerful tool

any cult would be proud to have.

than to top it off, they teach you cant believe in your own thinking.

all very sick. and of course when people leave, they are wigged out

because they have never been taught or learned in ANY AA meeting ever

held (or been told they COULD learn) how to be self respecting, self

responsible, and self sufficient and still choose to be sober. if a

jinx to et them up for failure, guarantee it by not providing the skill

to survive without them or acknowledge that that ability exists

dave

..

eudaimon8413311-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=10089

> One of my " favorite " meetings (being that it was the one that

probably more

> than any other led me eventually to leave) was " Q & A Night, " when

everyone

> present would write down questions and give them to the chairperson,

who

> would ask them one by one and people who had been around awhile would

usually

> answer them. Never have I heard more bullshitty, evasive, retarded

" answers "

> to questions than in that meeting. I have found it disturbing that

out of the

> @100 people who attended there, almost every single one of them

bought the

> program party line wholesale, believing it like the planet under

their feet.

> There were people who had been there for years, and some even were

critical

> of " the bullshit " (and there certainly was plenty of it) but still

they

> stayed, endlessly following sponsor's orders, believing

wholeheartedly that

> they would surely die if they left. I guess sentences like " we are

like men

> who have lost their legs--they never grow new ones " are effective

> brainwashing tools. I'm pretty angry about all the time and energy I

wasted

> on all that crap.

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In regards to my NUMEROUS incarcerations in 12-step Hell Hotels, I NEVER

EVER bothered to get a sponsor. I just always thought " why in blazes do I

need yet ANOTHER idiot bitching at me for whatever I was or was not doing? "

ACTUALLY the honest thing is that I really never took the 12-step propeganda

seriously. I " used " to think things like " why in #$! don't I buy this

treatment " and " why do I think 12 step meetings are more boring than reading

the telephone book? " . Well, being on this list has pretty much answered

those questions.

~Trixxi

Re: " Honest Program "

> One of my " favorite " meetings (being that it was the one that probably

more

> than any other led me eventually to leave) was " Q & A Night, " when

everyone

> present would write down questions and give them to the chairperson, who

> would ask them one by one and people who had been around awhile would

usually

> answer them. Never have I heard more bullshitty, evasive, retarded

" answers "

> to questions than in that meeting. I have found it disturbing that out of

the

> @100 people who attended there, almost every single one of them bought the

> program party line wholesale, believing it like the planet under their

feet.

> There were people who had been there for years, and some even were

critical

> of " the bullshit " (and there certainly was plenty of it) but still they

> stayed, endlessly following sponsor's orders, believing wholeheartedly

that

> they would surely die if they left. I guess sentences like " we are like

men

> who have lost their legs--they never grow new ones " are effective

> brainwashing tools. I'm pretty angry about all the time and energy I

wasted

> on all that crap.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Get the most popular downloads on the Web. They¹re new!

> They¹re hot! They're FREE! Utilities, drivers, games.

> It's all here. http://clickhere./click/1613

>

>

> -- Create a poll/survey for your group!

> -- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

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