Re: NADA called, broke NC. Met my dad. I am a mess.

[Guest guest]

my nada is the same way !! If I don't tell her everything about whats going

on, she says I'm lying to her...omission is NOT a lie

Jackie

Jumping in here because I faced the issue of " being honest ='s FULL

DISCLOSURE ALL THE TIME " dynamic with Nada. Any time I didn't tell her

everything up front, and she somehow found out later, I was told I was

" Disloyal " , " a liar " , " dishonest " , " manipulative " , etc. When I finally

shared this with my therapist (after about 6 months of seeing her weekly and

I admit, I was even ashamed to tell her about my feelings of NOT wanting to

share everything with Nada because I thought Therapist would " see me that

way too. " ) she calmly said, " You are an adult. You don't HAVE to share

everything with your mother. Ever. It sounds like she will use whatever

you DO share, when the mood strikes, to wound you. Don't forget those

feelings. Having an adult life means NOT participating in full disclosure

on someone elses schedule. "

Oh. I had NO idea!!!!

I was suddenly " free " of all of that the moment she said it.

It's been easier to practice it knowing that is " how it is supposed to be "

no matter how much it goes against my environmental instincts.

The greatest benefit has been that what Nada doesn't know can't hurt me.

Lynnette - tossing in more persective in this thread (after last nights

contributions ;o) because I know where you, SaraJo, are coming from.

[Guest guest]

MANY people think omisson is a lie...Dr Phil does and says so on this

program...but it's NOT ! a lie is a mistruth you willfully tell others

Jackie

*****Does not compute! Error! Error! Must self-destruct!*****

" Omission is NOT a lie! "

Spent my whole life spinning on that one... I'm better with it now but

still...

Lynnette

[Guest guest]

huh?...That doesn't make any sense. How is not telling someone that I got a

haircut or I didn't make my bed or I forgot to throw out the trash lying?

>

> MANY people think omisson is a lie...Dr Phil does and says so on this

> program...but it's NOT ! a lie is a mistruth you willfully tell others

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> *****Does not compute! Error! Error! Must self-destruct!*****

>

> " Omission is NOT a lie! "

>

> Spent my whole life spinning on that one... I'm better with it now but

> still...

>

> Lynnette

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know..but a lot of people think if you DON'T tell the whole thing,

you're lying because you're leaving something out...when Dr Phil says that

to a guest, I always tell him he's WRONG...you do NOT have to tell everyone

everything..even my dictionary, under omission, says it's a lie !! no

wonder people are so screwed up !!

Jackie

huh?...That doesn't make any sense. How is not telling someone that I got a

haircut or I didn't make my bed or I forgot to throw out the trash lying?

[Guest guest]

Its an interesting point of debate and personal interpretation: the concept of

" lying by omission. "

I think some religions embrace that idea: that it is possible to lie by

omission. I believe that for religious purposes, the concept refers to

withholding information when you are asked a direct question when the issue has

to do with " sinning " or illegal activities. For example: " Do you recall

sleeping with your neighbor's husband last January? " and the accused answers " I

don't remember. "

Or something to that effect.

But I personally very definitely believe that retaining information relevant

only to yourself and/or your spouse (in particular) as personal and private is

*not* " lying by omission. "

Only the nadas of this world think they have the right to demand that their

adult child confess every morsel of intimate, personal and private information

at nada's command.

-Annie

> >

> > MANY people think omisson is a lie...Dr Phil does and says so on this

> > program...but it's NOT ! a lie is a mistruth you willfully tell others

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > *****Does not compute! Error! Error! Must self-destruct!*****

> >

> > " Omission is NOT a lie! "

> >

> > Spent my whole life spinning on that one... I'm better with it now but

> > still...

> >

> > Lynnette

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with you...

Yep.

Ditto.

It's all about context and intent.

I'm NOT a big fan of Dr. Phil... never have been.

Lynnette

>

> MANY people think omisson is a lie...Dr Phil does and says so on this

> program...but it's NOT ! a lie is a mistruth you willfully tell others

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> *****Does not compute! Error! Error! Must self-destruct!*****

>

> " Omission is NOT a lie! "

>

> Spent my whole life spinning on that one... I'm better with it now but

> still...

>

> Lynnette

>

[Guest guest]

>I think some religions embrace that idea: that it is possible to lie by

>omission. I believe that for religious >purposes, the concept refers to

>withholding information when you are asked a direct question when the

> >issue has to do with " sinning " or illegal activities. For example: " Do

>you recall sleeping with your >neighbor's husband last January? " and the

>accused answers " I don't remember. "

except , if you did remember, this is outright lying, not omission..yes,

some religions do consider omission a lie, but I've never been clear on what

omission is, exactly..like If mother asks me " where did you go today " and I

answer with " I went to the grocery store, to the bank, and to the park, "

but do NOT tell her I also went to the gambling casino...thats omission, but

thats not lying...so I don't understand how even religoins can say omission

is lying..a lie is an untruth..If I told mother I went to check on the job

search ( maybe just to get her off my back, but I really didn't) THATS a

lie...

Jackie

Or something to that effect.

But I personally very definitely believe that retaining information relevant

only to yourself and/or your spouse (in particular) as personal and private

is *not* " lying by omission. "

Only the nadas of this world think they have the right to demand that their

adult child confess every morsel of intimate, personal and private

information at nada's command.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

but whats disturbing is that the dictionary says omission is a lie ;-(

I dont understand how they can think this..

Jackie

I agree with you...

Yep.

Ditto.

It's all about context and intent.

I'm NOT a big fan of Dr. Phil... never have been.

Lynnette

[Guest guest]

Here's my understanding and two cents for whatever they're worth.

A sin is an intentionally doing something you know is wrong. Like telling a lie

is an intentional falsehood that might be told to deceive someone.

A sin of omission is a failure to do something you know is right. Like failing

to tell someone that they dropped their wallet, allowing you to go pick it up

and keep the money for yourself.

Disclosure requires discernment of another's motives. There are many abusive

people who want you to give full disclosure of your actions and whereabouts

because they want to be able to control and dominate you.

IN this book I've been reading " Children of the Self-Absorbed " it recommends to

avoid disclosure of your intimate thoughts and feelings. " You may have

disclosed personal and intimate thoughts and feelings to your parent or may have

been tempted to do so. This is not advised because your parent is likely to use

the info against you and your best interests. The results of full disclosure

can be that you are chastised or criticized, blamed for not being better, and

accused of disappointing the parent. You may be demeaned for your thoughts and

feelings, and your parent may compromise the confidence of the material, telling

others what you've shared and thus leading to more discord and criticism.

Withholding sensitive issues and feelings doesn't require you to cut our parent

off from your personal life altogether, but it does mean that some of the

following would be helpful:

---Tell your parent only what you wouldn't mind being revealed to the world.

---Don't take your problems or concerns to your parent. Find a trusted

confidant who is knowledgable and can keep a confidence.

---When talking with our parent, minimize anhy concerns or problems you may

have. Be as upbeat as possible.

One problem is that self-absorbed parents do not view us as separate entities

and feel a sense of entitlement in knowing all areas of our lives. But we are

adults now, the umbilical cords and apron strings are cut, and we need to live

our own lives free of their dominance.

By the way, this book is awesome!

2

[Guest guest]

Ah! Thanks 2, that is a really good explanation of what a " sin of omission "

is (and a good example) plus an explanation of what " disclosure " is in relation

to narcissitic, self-absorbed parents.

I really should get that book and read it. Thanks!

-Annie

>

> Here's my understanding and two cents for whatever they're worth.

>

> A sin is an intentionally doing something you know is wrong. Like telling a

lie is an intentional falsehood that might be told to deceive someone.

>

> A sin of omission is a failure to do something you know is right. Like

failing to tell someone that they dropped their wallet, allowing you to go pick

it up and keep the money for yourself.

>

> Disclosure requires discernment of another's motives. There are many abusive

people who want you to give full disclosure of your actions and whereabouts

because they want to be able to control and dominate you.

>

> IN this book I've been reading " Children of the Self-Absorbed " it recommends

to avoid disclosure of your intimate thoughts and feelings. " You may have

disclosed personal and intimate thoughts and feelings to your parent or may have

been tempted to do so. This is not advised because your parent is likely to use

the info against you and your best interests. The results of full disclosure

can be that you are chastised or criticized, blamed for not being better, and

accused of disappointing the parent. You may be demeaned for your thoughts and

feelings, and your parent may compromise the confidence of the material, telling

others what you've shared and thus leading to more discord and criticism.

Withholding sensitive issues and feelings doesn't require you to cut our parent

off from your personal life altogether, but it does mean that some of the

following would be helpful:

>

> ---Tell your parent only what you wouldn't mind being revealed to the world.

>

> ---Don't take your problems or concerns to your parent. Find a trusted

confidant who is knowledgable and can keep a confidence.

>

> ---When talking with our parent, minimize anhy concerns or problems you may

have. Be as upbeat as possible.

>

>

>

> One problem is that self-absorbed parents do not view us as separate entities

and feel a sense of entitlement in knowing all areas of our lives. But we are

adults now, the umbilical cords and apron strings are cut, and we need to live

our own lives free of their dominance.

>

> By the way, this book is awesome!

>

> 2

>

[Guest guest]

aha, that makes sense..so our nadas have it wrong...they turned it into

something to benefit themselves ( thats gotta be a sin of some type!)

telling us if we omit telling them something that it's a lie...

Jackie

A sin is an intentionally doing something you know is wrong. Like telling a

lie is an intentional falsehood that might be told to deceive someone.

A sin of omission is a failure to do something you know is right. Like

failing to tell someone that they dropped their wallet, allowing you to go

pick it up and keep the money for yourself.

Disclosure requires discernment of another's motives. There are many

abusive people who want you to give full disclosure of your actions and

whereabouts because they want to be able to control and dominate you.

[Guest guest]

" Lying by omission " implies you have a duty to disclose every detail to the

questioner. If I tell my husband that I had margaritas with Connery, but

neglect to tell him it was after we'd made mad love on the beach (OK, it's a

fantasy. Leave me alone.), then omitting the part about the beach is " lying by

omission " because I have a duty to be honest about that type of thing with my

spouse. If I'm under oath in a court of law, I owe the court " the whole truth

and nothing but the truth " - and the judge is there to make sure that the

questioning stays on-topic and does not stray from the points being disputed.

Fortunately, life isn't a courtroom, Nada doesn't have me under oath, and I do

not owe her full disclosure of EVERY detail of my life. I can tell her true

facts without telling her EVERY true fact there is. She's on a " need to know "

basis - and I'm finding she really " needs to know " very little about my life.

>

> MANY people think omisson is a lie...Dr Phil does and says so on this

> program...but it's NOT ! a lie is a mistruth you willfully tell others

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> *****Does not compute! Error! Error! Must self-destruct!*****

>

> " Omission is NOT a lie! "

>

> Spent my whole life spinning on that one... I'm better with it now but

> still...

>

> Lynnette

>

[Guest guest]

thanks for the clarification...and don't worry, I like Connery too !!

Jackie

" Lying by omission " implies you have a duty to disclose every detail to the

questioner. If I tell my husband that I had margaritas with Connery,

but neglect to tell him it was after we'd made mad love on the beach (OK,

it's a fantasy. Leave me alone.), then omitting the part about the beach is

" lying by omission " because I have a duty to be honest about that type of

thing with my spouse. If I'm under oath in a court of law, I owe the court

" the whole truth and nothing but the truth " - and the judge is there to make

sure that the questioning stays on-topic and does not stray from the points

being disputed. Fortunately, life isn't a courtroom, Nada doesn't have me

under oath, and I do not owe her full disclosure of EVERY detail of my life.

I can tell her true facts without telling her EVERY true fact there is.

She's on a " need to know " basis - and I'm finding she really " needs to know "

very little about my life.