Re: A couple of Nada moments I have never figured out

[Guest guest]

Wow, both those are very odd, indeed. The only thing that seems likely to me is

that your nada was dissociating. It is one of the bpd diagnostic criteria

listed in the DSM-IV:

" Dissociation is an unexpected partial or complete disruption of the normal

integration of a person's conscious or psychological functioning that cannot be

easily explained by the person. Dissociation is a mental process that severs a

connection to a person's thoughts, memories, feelings, actions, or sense of

identity.[1] Dissociation is a normal response to trauma, and allows the mind to

distance itself from experiences that are too much for the psyche to process at

that time.[2

So, maybe the common thread is that both the incidents you wrote about were too

emotionally charged for your nada to deal with, so she partially " went away " .

The first one was too scary for her to deal with and the second one was too

wonderful.

I have experienced a co-worker behaving oddly when we had to evacuate our office

building after an earthquake. On a security sweep of our floor I found this one

gal still in our kitchen, angrily pulling at the knobs on a vending machine and

hitting it even after the electricity was off and the emergency alarms were

blaring. I was on the emergency preparedness team and told her " We need to

evacuate now, please exit with the others. " But she ignored me and began

swearing at the machine! I spoke to her again but she was not responding so I

had to physically drag her away from the vending machine and escort her out of

the building. I now think it was most likely that she was dissociating from

fear and panic.

The first time it was clear to me that my nada was experiencing a break with

reality was about 15 years ago, on an overseas vacation with me. Nada became

convinced that our beloved great-aunt who was on this trip with us hated her and

was saying mean things to her, and that was so obviously not true and off the

wall that it threw me for a loop. Poor great-aunt was as bewildered and hurt as

I was; it was one of my first real light-bulb moments that something major was

wrong with my mother's brain!

BTW, I'm so glad you were a smart kid and saved yourself from danger the way you

did, you had good instincts!

-Annie

>

> For most of the posts I read here, I can see what the nada is doing. Usually

I could say " oh she's jealous " or " oh she's triangulating " or " oh that's

emotional blackmail " .

>

> BUT

>

> Do you guys have any nada moments that you just cannot figure out? I have

two: one that was pretty traumatic and another that was just weird. I'm curious

if anyone experienced something similar to these things, or if they make " sense "

(nada-sense) to anyone?

>

> The first one was walking home from after school practice (cause nada didn't

want to be bothered to drive me). I was 12. I cut across a field, saw a dude on

his bike in the distance. I looked down as I was walking, and after a while,

realized this guy had not passed me, and was not up ahead on the trail. He was

maybe 30 yards away, off his bike, hiding behind a very thin desert tree.

Squatting. Hiding. Staring at me. My instincts told me I was in danger, and I

ran, off the trail, over a ditch. Turned around while running and saw him

trying to get his bike over that ditch, heading my way. I was running through

the desert where there was no trail. I didn't look back after that until I

reached our subdivision. He was gone. When I got home, I was out of breath,

and told my mother what happened. I was expecting we would call the police and

she told me to set the table. Did she not believe me? I never made stuff up.

It was so bizarre that she had no reaction to my " I was almost raped and/or

killed five minutes ago " story.

>

> Any idea what that was about?

>

> The other one was when I won an award for writing when I was 15. It was a

statewide award. I brought it home and she kept asking me over and over if it

was for the WHOLE STATE. (OK, I get it, she can't believe I'm good at

something.) But she kept staring at the award. She wasn't looking at me, or

acting happy for me (she never is), but she was staring at this thing, all

glassy-eyed, kept saying she couldn't believe it. Staring for a really

inappropriate amount of time. It looked like she was dreaming that I might be

famous some day or something. It was creepy!

>

> Anyone get that one?

>

> And do you have any stories that don't make sense to you?

>

> -Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

Deanna, I definitely have experienced a nada-moment like the first one you

describe. I had a winter sports accident that easily could have killed me but I

was very lucky. When I told nada she had no reaction at all and even later made

a joke about it. I was so hurt I couldn't hold it in and confronted her - asked

her why she wasn't upset. She said well it's clear that you are okay now. She

could not understand why she should be upset. Weeks later when I visited her

she saw the massive bruises on my body from the accident and seemed taken aback

- like where'd that come from? Still no real sympathy though.

My theory for this type of incident is that for them all that matters is that we

are still " in play " in the game of life. That you almost got harmed by that man

or that I got in that accident doesn't matter *to them* if we are clearly there,

still in our roles in their lives. It's the ultimate display of narcissism

really. Jeeesh, it makes me feel bitter thinking about that one and it was so

many years ago.

Second incident....no definite thought on that other than she just was grasping

for a response and there was none in her repertoire to be found! Still

retroactively I say to you - way to go!!! I think successes when you've got

crazy parents should be celebrated multiple times

>

> For most of the posts I read here, I can see what the nada is doing. Usually

I could say " oh she's jealous " or " oh she's triangulating " or " oh that's

emotional blackmail " .

>

> BUT

>

> Do you guys have any nada moments that you just cannot figure out? I have

two: one that was pretty traumatic and another that was just weird. I'm curious

if anyone experienced something similar to these things, or if they make " sense "

(nada-sense) to anyone?

>

> The first one was walking home from after school practice (cause nada didn't

want to be bothered to drive me). I was 12. I cut across a field, saw a dude on

his bike in the distance. I looked down as I was walking, and after a while,

realized this guy had not passed me, and was not up ahead on the trail. He was

maybe 30 yards away, off his bike, hiding behind a very thin desert tree.

Squatting. Hiding. Staring at me. My instincts told me I was in danger, and I

ran, off the trail, over a ditch. Turned around while running and saw him

trying to get his bike over that ditch, heading my way. I was running through

the desert where there was no trail. I didn't look back after that until I

reached our subdivision. He was gone. When I got home, I was out of breath,

and told my mother what happened. I was expecting we would call the police and

she told me to set the table. Did she not believe me? I never made stuff up.

It was so bizarre that she had no reaction to my " I was almost raped and/or

killed five minutes ago " story.

>

> Any idea what that was about?

>

> The other one was when I won an award for writing when I was 15. It was a

statewide award. I brought it home and she kept asking me over and over if it

was for the WHOLE STATE. (OK, I get it, she can't believe I'm good at

something.) But she kept staring at the award. She wasn't looking at me, or

acting happy for me (she never is), but she was staring at this thing, all

glassy-eyed, kept saying she couldn't believe it. Staring for a really

inappropriate amount of time. It looked like she was dreaming that I might be

famous some day or something. It was creepy!

>

> Anyone get that one?

>

> And do you have any stories that don't make sense to you?

>

> -Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

I think she didn't want you to have been harmed, so she decided in her own mind

that you weren't at risk and nothing had happened.  Harm to you would have

equalled abandonment to her.

As for the other one, I think she was very impressed at the idea her own

daughter had accomplished something so significant to the point that she

couldn't really take it in.  Maybe she had aspired to something similar when she

was younger.  Maybe she was imagining you running off to the big city to be a

famous writer and leaving her behind.  Hard to say.

What adds to the confusion with our bpd parents is that you don't know else has

happened in the course of the day and so you don't know what line of thinking

the particular events fall into.

 

Have you ever asked her?  It might be interesting to know what she says now or

if she even remembers.

Best,

Ashana

Now surf faster and smarter ! Check out the new Firefox 3 - Yahoo! Edition

http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/firefox/

[Guest guest]

Deanna - I think 's on to something. What should have been a " red flags

and sirens " event (you being stalked on the way home from school) elicited NO

response, and then your state-wide win, which should have elicited a huge

celebration - also, no response. It's like she was searching her computer

database for an appropriate response to each of these events and found " no data

available " - she just didn't know how to respond. And I can also imagine that

her immediate, instinctive response to each of these events was, " how does this

affect ME? " - because it's always all about Nada. Since she wasn't affected by

either event, she had no immediate response.

On a much less dramatic level, my nada is very fixated on outer appearance and

always " filtered " everything through that attitude - so when I called her to say

I'd be graduating from college with honors (it was a pretty big deal, since I

was the first person in the family to go to college, and had worked my way

through) - her first and only response was, " What are you going to wear? "

(Well, a cap and gown, duh...) I was hurt and frustrated because she seemed to

be trivializing the accomplishment and bringing everything down to the level of

physical appearance - her weapon of choice. I realized later than she just

didn't have any way of comprehending the real value of the honor - so she

responded the only way she could. She was out of her element, and didn't have a

framework for the event (what does it mean to be inducted into a college honor

society? What does college graduation feel like, and how should Nada react?) -

so she boiled it down to visual imagery. (what will it look like when this

happens?) Once she could imagine a visual image, she could figure out how to

behave. Does that make sense?

>

[Guest guest]

my brother didn't make it :-) he drank himself to death. My oldest sister

didn't make it either...she's not dead, but is suicidal, drinks, smokes, and

is still a 1960's drugged out hippie

Jackie

I agree, I like that analogy too: the brain-as-computer with " no data

available " makes a lot of sense to me! It could also explain how a " power

surge " of emotion could overload the computer and shut it down briefly (ie

the odd behavior of my co-worker after the earthquake.)

I think that long travel plus unfamiliar environments stress out my nada

badly and ratchet up her anxiety level to the point where her brain just

shuts down its rational and logical parts and she starts dissociating. She

has had a bizarre, not-here-with-the-rest-of-us, irrational episode on each

overseas trip we've had together. Even if I were in contact with her right

now, I still would not ever consider traveling with nada again.

-Annie

(PS: To me, all this is just totally driving home the point that bpds are

way too dysfunctional to be allowed to raise children. The fact that we here

survived at all is a miracle. How many kids didn't make it, I wonder.)

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

How scary for you to have that man chasing after you at length. Thankfully you

were able to out run him!

I can relate to your award story but on a much smaller scale. 4th grade was a

rough year for me, I had my 1st grade teacher who moved up to 4th grade that

year, and she humiliated me in front of the 1st grade class, spending 4th grade

with the woman was the longest year of my life...dreaded going to school each

day and became very withdrawn for fear she'd single me out and humiliate me

again.

After one parent teacher conference that year, nada came home to say that I had

tested the highest out of the class on the comprehension tests. She proceeded

to tell me that the teacher didn't want me to know so I was forbidden to tell

anyone about it. What's that all about?

2

>

> For most of the posts I read here, I can see what the nada is doing. Usually

I could say " oh she's jealous " or " oh she's triangulating " or " oh that's

emotional blackmail " .

>

> BUT

>

> Do you guys have any nada moments that you just cannot figure out? I have

two: one that was pretty traumatic and another that was just weird. I'm curious

if anyone experienced something similar to these things, or if they make " sense "

(nada-sense) to anyone?

>

> The first one was walking home from after school practice (cause nada didn't

want to be bothered to drive me). I was 12. I cut across a field, saw a dude on

his bike in the distance. I looked down as I was walking, and after a while,

realized this guy had not passed me, and was not up ahead on the trail. He was

maybe 30 yards away, off his bike, hiding behind a very thin desert tree.

Squatting. Hiding. Staring at me. My instincts told me I was in danger, and I

ran, off the trail, over a ditch. Turned around while running and saw him

trying to get his bike over that ditch, heading my way. I was running through

the desert where there was no trail. I didn't look back after that until I

reached our subdivision. He was gone. When I got home, I was out of breath,

and told my mother what happened. I was expecting we would call the police and

she told me to set the table. Did she not believe me? I never made stuff up.

It was so bizarre that she had no reaction to my " I was almost raped and/or

killed five minutes ago " story.

>

> Any idea what that was about?

>

> The other one was when I won an award for writing when I was 15. It was a

statewide award. I brought it home and she kept asking me over and over if it

was for the WHOLE STATE. (OK, I get it, she can't believe I'm good at

something.) But she kept staring at the award. She wasn't looking at me, or

acting happy for me (she never is), but she was staring at this thing, all

glassy-eyed, kept saying she couldn't believe it. Staring for a really

inappropriate amount of time. It looked like she was dreaming that I might be

famous some day or something. It was creepy!

>

> Anyone get that one?

>

> And do you have any stories that don't make sense to you?

>

> -Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, the pit of my stomach just dropped when I saw your opening line, " Don't tell

so and so. " My whole life I've been told " not to tell anyone anything... don't

share... don't be disloyal... it's us against them... only I have your best

interests at heart... no one else understands what I/we have gone through... " on

and on and on. Through the therapist I've learned that this is wrong. I didn't

know. For 40 years I didn't know this was bad. This is a HUGE issue for me

right now.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I'm roller-coaster dizzy at the moment but trying not to fade

out from it....

I've recently called Nada on her latest efforts to do this (if you remember back

to my Easter/Palm Springs/Step-dad's $$ to Nada secret.) Didn't go so well but I

held my own.

Sigh... I gotta go lay down.

Lynnette

>

> Wow, Jackie, I heard " don't tell so and so " about several things and HUH?

> was my reaction too - but the " don't tell so and so " prevailed. It was also

> the rule for happy things so as to not make that other person feel bad about

> their lack of abilities. Then when the other person found out, I was the one

> who was in trouble for keeping it to myself.

>

> Flowers in Oz

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

>

>

>

>

> when I told ( years after the fact) my nada that I was sexually molested by

> the neighbor behind us, the only thing she said was " don't tell your

> father, it will upset him " HUH ??? what kind of reaction is that to your

> daughter who just confided to you that she was molested as a pre teen ?? I

> suppose, Deanna, this recount of what you went through and what happened to

> me would the be same..but darned if I know the motivation behind it

>

> Jackie

>

[Guest guest]

I can relate totally to the award incident . I won the State Spelling Bee for

antidisestablishmentarianism and I was only in the 8th grade. My mother didn't

even congratulate me afterward.

At 14 the owner of the Kenvil Roller Skating Rink wanted a boy I skated with and

I to represent his rink and compete for the County Title at the time. He

brought my mother the paper to sign and she refused. I was heartbroken because

I really wanted to compete. My skating partner found someone else to compete

with him and they won. Everyone said she wasn't as good a skater as I was, but

of course we will never know if I would have won or not.

What I don't understand is why she never wanted me to compete. She never roller

skated and didn't even know how so why would she care. I grew up pretty fearful

of competing for anything and had to force myself to compete for anything I

wanted even as a young adult. I outgrew that one, but it certainly made things

a lot more difficult for me than they had to be.

She most recently does not get that black mold is bad for a person's health and

my apartment is covered with it (green AND black) since the flood here awhile

ago. She said I 'sounded congested' and 'you know you're HIGHLY allergic to

cats AND dogs'. I know I'm not. It's the mold here which only seems to bother

me in the warmer weather. She is trying to convince me that I am allergic to my

cats so I give them away before I 'live in her house' because she always hated

animals and thinks I am going to live in her house after she's dead which she

claims isn't long from now. I can't see how it can be long from now with her

numerous medical conditions for which she will not follow the doctor's advice

and two of them are life threatening. It's a control issue again to be sure.

NO empathy for my mold problem. She just says, " mold isn't BAD for you.

You'll live " . The landlord is useless and knows it's here full well but nothing

will kill it as it is in the carpeting AND walls. I want out of here but I am

hoping to get my own house soon which nada does NOT know and that I will never

live in her house and of course neither will my cats.

Marilyn

[Guest guest]

I can relate totally to the award incident . I won the State Spelling Bee for

antidisestablishmentarianism and I was only in the 8th grade. My mother didn't

even congratulate me afterward.

At 14 the owner of the Kenvil Roller Skating Rink wanted a boy I skated with and

I to represent his rink and compete for the County Title at the time. He

brought my mother the paper to sign and she refused. I was heartbroken because

I really wanted to compete. My skating partner found someone else to compete

with him and they won. Everyone said she wasn't as good a skater as I was, but

of course we will never know if I would have won or not.

What I don't understand is why she never wanted me to compete. She never roller

skated and didn't even know how so why would she care. I grew up pretty fearful

of competing for anything and had to force myself to compete for anything I

wanted even as a young adult. I outgrew that one, but it certainly made things

a lot more difficult for me than they had to be.

She most recently does not get that black mold is bad for a person's health and

my apartment is covered with it (green AND black) since the flood here awhile

ago. She said I 'sounded congested' and 'you know you're HIGHLY allergic to

cats AND dogs'. I know I'm not. It's the mold here which only seems to bother

me in the warmer weather. She is trying to convince me that I am allergic to my

cats so I give them away before I 'live in her house' because she always hated

animals and thinks I am going to live in her house after she's dead which she

claims isn't long from now. I can't see how it can be long from now with her

numerous medical conditions for which she will not follow the doctor's advice

and two of them are life threatening. It's a control issue again to be sure.

NO empathy for my mold problem. She just says, " mold isn't BAD for you.

You'll live " . The landlord is useless and knows it's here full well but nothing

will kill it as it is in the carpeting AND walls. I want out of here but I am

hoping to get my own house soon which nada does NOT know and that I will never

live in her house and of course neither will my cats.

Marilyn

[Guest guest]

Lynnette,

I was told the same thing. It is also an issue for me because I have spent my

whole life not trusting people and being suspicious of people who when I look

back were genuinely good people who meant me no harm. I also learned in therapy

that my parents taught me not to trust other people and to keep family business

private, so much so that it has had a detrimental impact on my life. It is

troubling on so many levels because I was not born this way. I learned to be

this way and despite the hurt it has caused me and continues to cause me, it is

very difficult to unlearn.

Abby

> >

> > Wow, Jackie, I heard " don't tell so and so " about several things and HUH?

> > was my reaction too - but the " don't tell so and so " prevailed. It was also

> > the rule for happy things so as to not make that other person feel bad about

> > their lack of abilities. Then when the other person found out, I was the one

> > who was in trouble for keeping it to myself.

> >

> > Flowers in Oz

> >

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: " sleddog " <sleddog@>

> >

> >

> >

> > when I told ( years after the fact) my nada that I was sexually molested by

> > the neighbor behind us, the only thing she said was " don't tell your

> > father, it will upset him " HUH ??? what kind of reaction is that to your

> > daughter who just confided to you that she was molested as a pre teen ?? I

> > suppose, Deanna, this recount of what you went through and what happened to

> > me would the be same..but darned if I know the motivation behind it

> >

> > Jackie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

" I was not born this way. I learned to be this way... "

Makes me furious to the core. How do you do this to a child? Why in the world

would ANYONE (let alone a mother) want their child to be distrustful of the

world and the goodness in it? Why, even when that child is an adult, does the

original parent still do it - or attempt to?

OMG!

It's the ultimate form of abuse in my book. If the child somehow manages to

circumvent/overcome/thrive as an adult there is always this little chirping

voice of doom in the back of that childs head, " You can't trust anyone. Don't

tell anyone anything. Don't be a disloyal bi@@@ch. Only *I* understand the

truth because I created it. "

I'm thankful I have a therapy appt tomorrow. I'm triggered all over the place

at the moment.

Lynnette

> > >

> > > Wow, Jackie, I heard " don't tell so and so " about several things and HUH?

> > > was my reaction too - but the " don't tell so and so " prevailed. It was

also

> > > the rule for happy things so as to not make that other person feel bad

about

> > > their lack of abilities. Then when the other person found out, I was the

one

> > > who was in trouble for keeping it to myself.

> > >

> > > Flowers in Oz

> > >

> > >

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > From: " sleddog " <sleddog@>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > when I told ( years after the fact) my nada that I was sexually molested

by

> > > the neighbor behind us, the only thing she said was " don't tell your

> > > father, it will upset him " HUH ??? what kind of reaction is that to your

> > > daughter who just confided to you that she was molested as a pre teen ??

I

> > > suppose, Deanna, this recount of what you went through and what happened

to

> > > me would the be same..but darned if I know the motivation behind it

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

When I tried to discuss my sexual abuse with nada, she said

Oh everybody has been abuse, it is no big deal

Pitiful person, who is really in there?

mg

[Guest guest]

When I tried to discuss my sexual abuse with nada, she said

Oh everybody has been abuse, it is no big deal

Pitiful person, who is really in there?

mg

[Guest guest]

A very funny incident happened when I visited nada and we were starting to eat

breakfast:  I asked nada for sugar for my cereal:  she went totally and

completely blank, like she had NEVER heard of putting sugar on cereal.

As we sat at the table, nada observed birds eating at the bird feeder; when I

said that I could not see the birds from where I sat, nada stated

I don't care and laughed.

oh my, we need to compile a book of nada remarks and publish them

blessings, mg

[Guest guest]

Deanna, I also have experienced a moment (or several) like the one you are

mentioning. I was about 11 years old and was riding my bike down an extremely

steep hill when I went to brake and flipped over the handle bars. I knocked out

one tooth and chipped my front tooth, got numerous cuts and scratches on my face

and hands. I ran home crying, scared and obviously hurt. My nada opened the door

took one look at me and shut the door in my face. I just stood there. She

returned after a few moments with a wet washcloth, told me to stop being

hysterical and shut the door in my face again. I sat in the yard on the side of

the house completely shocked. After about an hour nada came outside and

explained to me she had handled the situation that way for my own good. She

explained ever so sweetly that I had a tendency to get hysterical in certain

situations so by closing the door on me I had time to pull myself together. She

also explained to me how she had smartly handed me a dark colored washcloth to

wipe the blood from face so I would not get hysterical when I saw the blood on

the washcloth. She told me if she had shown any concern or worry when she saw me

I would have worked myself into such a state of hysteria she wouldn't have been

able to calm me down. Nada is such a master of manipulation, I actually stood up

feeling she had done this for my own good. After all I was nothing but an

hysterical mess and I was so lucky to have someone like her to help me since I

could obviously take care of myself in critical situations. I thought there was

something wrong with me for a long time for actually longing to be comforted in

that situation. I agree with the " does not compute " theory but also believe that

by having such a non caring reaction my nada was just continuing to manipulate

me into self doubt. I was not deserving of comfort/love because I was an

hysterical mess.

lily

> >

> > For most of the posts I read here, I can see what the nada is doing.

Usually I could say " oh she's jealous " or " oh she's triangulating " or " oh that's

emotional blackmail " .

> >

> > BUT

> >

> > Do you guys have any nada moments that you just cannot figure out? I have

two: one that was pretty traumatic and another that was just weird. I'm curious

if anyone experienced something similar to these things, or if they make " sense "

(nada-sense) to anyone?

> >

> > The first one was walking home from after school practice (cause nada didn't

want to be bothered to drive me). I was 12. I cut across a field, saw a dude on

his bike in the distance. I looked down as I was walking, and after a while,

realized this guy had not passed me, and was not up ahead on the trail. He was

maybe 30 yards away, off his bike, hiding behind a very thin desert tree.

Squatting. Hiding. Staring at me. My instincts told me I was in danger, and I

ran, off the trail, over a ditch. Turned around while running and saw him

trying to get his bike over that ditch, heading my way. I was running through

the desert where there was no trail. I didn't look back after that until I

reached our subdivision. He was gone. When I got home, I was out of breath,

and told my mother what happened. I was expecting we would call the police and

she told me to set the table. Did she not believe me? I never made stuff up.

It was so bizarre that she had no reaction to my " I was almost raped and/or

killed five minutes ago " story.

> >

> > Any idea what that was about?

> >

> > The other one was when I won an award for writing when I was 15. It was a

statewide award. I brought it home and she kept asking me over and over if it

was for the WHOLE STATE. (OK, I get it, she can't believe I'm good at

something.) But she kept staring at the award. She wasn't looking at me, or

acting happy for me (she never is), but she was staring at this thing, all

glassy-eyed, kept saying she couldn't believe it. Staring for a really

inappropriate amount of time. It looked like she was dreaming that I might be

famous some day or something. It was creepy!

> >

> > Anyone get that one?

> >

> > And do you have any stories that don't make sense to you?

> >

> > -Deanna

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It is exhausting trying to live with an insane mother, trying to make sense of

nonsense. The first time I tried to read Carol's " Alice in Wonderland "

and " Through the Looking Glass " I actually found it upsetting. Alice's

nightmare was too close to my waking reality: I was trying to understand, to

please and get along with the Queen of Hearts who at any moment could go

ballistic on me and scream " Off with her head! " Even the relatively benign

characters in " TtLG " such as Humpty Dumpty are obnoxious and controlling,

illustrated by this exchange:

`I don't know what you mean by " glory " ,' Alice said (to HD.)

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. `Of course you don't -- till I tell you. I

meant " there's a nice knock-down argument for you! " '

`But " glory " doesn't mean " a nice knock-down argument " ,' Alice objected.

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means

just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

****

I had to warp reality in order to just survive being in my nada's presence, and

it took decades for me to understand what was done to me and to get a handle on

how normal people behave so that I could engage in at least some normal social

interactions.

My nada did the emotional equivalent of breaking my legs, over and over again,

and never allowing them to heal up properly before breaking them again, so that

I still limp through life. I am better than I was, I am more sociable now, more

willing to trust people, I have more friends now than I ever did before, but she

damaged me in ways that are not fixable. I have hope, though, that I can still

improve and get as much fun as I can out of life.

-Annie

>

> A very funny incident happened when I visited nada and we were starting to eat

breakfast:  I asked nada for sugar for my cereal:  she went totally and

completely blank, like she had NEVER heard of putting sugar on cereal.

>

> As we sat at the table, nada observed birds eating at the bird feeder; when I

said that I could not see the birds from where I sat, nada stated

>

> I don't care and laughed.

>

> oh my, we need to compile a book of nada remarks and publish them

>

> blessings, mg

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It is exhausting trying to live with an insane mother, trying to make sense of

nonsense. The first time I tried to read Carol's " Alice in Wonderland "

and " Through the Looking Glass " I actually found it upsetting. Alice's

nightmare was too close to my waking reality: I was trying to understand, to

please and get along with the Queen of Hearts who at any moment could go

ballistic on me and scream " Off with her head! " Even the relatively benign

characters in " TtLG " such as Humpty Dumpty are obnoxious and controlling,

illustrated by this exchange:

`I don't know what you mean by " glory " ,' Alice said (to HD.)

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. `Of course you don't -- till I tell you. I

meant " there's a nice knock-down argument for you! " '

`But " glory " doesn't mean " a nice knock-down argument " ,' Alice objected.

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means

just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

****

I had to warp reality in order to just survive being in my nada's presence, and

it took decades for me to understand what was done to me and to get a handle on

how normal people behave so that I could engage in at least some normal social

interactions.

My nada did the emotional equivalent of breaking my legs, over and over again,

and never allowing them to heal up properly before breaking them again, so that

I still limp through life. I am better than I was, I am more sociable now, more

willing to trust people, I have more friends now than I ever did before, but she

damaged me in ways that are not fixable. I have hope, though, that I can still

improve and get as much fun as I can out of life.

-Annie

>

> A very funny incident happened when I visited nada and we were starting to eat

breakfast:  I asked nada for sugar for my cereal:  she went totally and

completely blank, like she had NEVER heard of putting sugar on cereal.

>

> As we sat at the table, nada observed birds eating at the bird feeder; when I

said that I could not see the birds from where I sat, nada stated

>

> I don't care and laughed.

>

> oh my, we need to compile a book of nada remarks and publish them

>

> blessings, mg

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

how sad :-(

Jackie

When I tried to discuss my sexual abuse with nada, she said

Oh everybody has been abuse, it is no big deal

Pitiful person, who is really in there?

mg

[Guest guest]

when I was a kid, I got stung by two bumble bees ( those huge mostly black

fat bees) one the face, the other on my neck..my face swelled up and I

started having trouble breathing..nada called me stupid and careless ( I

was swinging on a swing and more or less collided with the bees) and refused

to take me to the hospital... when I started having a very hard time

breathing, my oldest sister took me to the er !!

Jackie

[Guest guest]

((((((((lilly)))))))))

Oh My God. How cruel to refuse to comfort an injured child! That is just

inhumanly cold, in my opinion and makes me so angry. Its also criminally

negligent; she didn't check you out immediately for concussion, or take you in

to get your tooth replanted, did she?

Holy cow. That's criminally abusive.

I'm betting that it was nada herself who would become hysterical at the sight of

blood and the shock of seeing you bloody triggered a panic; your nada was

slamming the door on her own panic. Feeling panic herself was a worse thing to

your nada than dealing with her child's pain and need for care and comfort.

Again, it is always all about the nada and her needs. I have no doubt that if

another adult had been present, if you had fainted in the street and a crowd had

gathered, your nada would have been all melting motherly concern and teary

compassion, playing the victim herself in a bid for attention and comfort.

Wanna bet?

I know exactly what you experienced, because a similar thing happened to me. I

jumped out of a heavy wooden swing and when I stood up it hit me on the back of

the head hard enough to make it bleed. I was dizzy, frightened by the sight of

my own blood and in pain, but when I stumbled indoors to my nada for comfort she

scared me by angrily screaming at me for being stupid. I learned to hide my

minor illnesses and injuries from her because I didn't want to be yelled at if I

was already sick or hurting.

-Annie

> > >

> > > For most of the posts I read here, I can see what the nada is doing.

Usually I could say " oh she's jealous " or " oh she's triangulating " or " oh that's

emotional blackmail " .

> > >

> > > BUT

> > >

> > > Do you guys have any nada moments that you just cannot figure out? I have

two: one that was pretty traumatic and another that was just weird. I'm curious

if anyone experienced something similar to these things, or if they make " sense "

(nada-sense) to anyone?

> > >

> > > The first one was walking home from after school practice (cause nada

didn't want to be bothered to drive me). I was 12. I cut across a field, saw a

dude on his bike in the distance. I looked down as I was walking, and after a

while, realized this guy had not passed me, and was not up ahead on the trail.

He was maybe 30 yards away, off his bike, hiding behind a very thin desert tree.

Squatting. Hiding. Staring at me. My instincts told me I was in danger, and I

ran, off the trail, over a ditch. Turned around while running and saw him

trying to get his bike over that ditch, heading my way. I was running through

the desert where there was no trail. I didn't look back after that until I

reached our subdivision. He was gone. When I got home, I was out of breath,

and told my mother what happened. I was expecting we would call the police and

she told me to set the table. Did she not believe me? I never made stuff up.

It was so bizarre that she had no reaction to my " I was almost raped and/or

killed five minutes ago " story.

> > >

> > > Any idea what that was about?

> > >

> > > The other one was when I won an award for writing when I was 15. It was a

statewide award. I brought it home and she kept asking me over and over if it

was for the WHOLE STATE. (OK, I get it, she can't believe I'm good at

something.) But she kept staring at the award. She wasn't looking at me, or

acting happy for me (she never is), but she was staring at this thing, all

glassy-eyed, kept saying she couldn't believe it. Staring for a really

inappropriate amount of time. It looked like she was dreaming that I might be

famous some day or something. It was creepy!

> > >

> > > Anyone get that one?

> > >

> > > And do you have any stories that don't make sense to you?

> > >

> > > -Deanna

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Oh gosh! This brings back more for me...

I was 11. We had a huge oak in the backyard of this apt on the back/top of an

old n Nada rented. It had a swing on a rope tied to a high branch. The

swing was one of those round plastic discs where the rope went through the

middle and your legs around it. The rope was old (even I knew that but figured,

Nada said it's safe, I'm overreacting....) I was swinging higher and higher on

it. She was sitting on the stairs that lead up. The rope broke with me about

15 ft in the air. I came down on my lower spine/tailbone region. I had the

wind knocked out of me. I don't remember crying. I do remember Nada getting up

and coming over to me slowly. I think she said something like, " Oh GREAT!

You're so fat you broke the swing. Now I'm going to have to pay for that. Get

up and go to your room. " No Dr's. No concern. When I mentioned it to her a

few years ago, she said, " Yeah, I remember. You broke the swing... "

I still have a tender spot on my spine. Adult Xrays have revealed that the tip

of my tailbone is broken... and it happened in childhood....

Lynnette

>

> when I was a kid, I got stung by two bumble bees ( those huge mostly black

> fat bees) one the face, the other on my neck..my face swelled up and I

> started having trouble breathing..nada called me stupid and careless ( I

> was swinging on a swing and more or less collided with the bees) and refused

> to take me to the hospital... when I started having a very hard time

> breathing, my oldest sister took me to the er !!

>

> Jackie

>

[Guest guest]

I think it's interesting how many of these stories start with " when I was 11 " ,

" when I was 12 " ...

Puberty is the perfect time for a nada to start *especially*

resenting/hating/being jealous of/wanting to hurt her daughter.

-Deanna

[Guest guest]

I wonder how many children suffer in agony or even die because their pd mothers

cannot or will not handle their child's injuries or illnesses? You could have

ruptured your liver and bled to death, for heaven's sake. The other poster was

going into anaphylaxis shock and *still* her nada would not deal with the

situation properly. Its unconscionable for a mother to neglect a child's

injuries or illness that way. God help us all, and God help little children who

are in the " care " of bpd mothers now.

-Annie

> >

> > when I was a kid, I got stung by two bumble bees ( those huge mostly black

> > fat bees) one the face, the other on my neck..my face swelled up and I

> > started having trouble breathing..nada called me stupid and careless ( I

> > was swinging on a swing and more or less collided with the bees) and refused

> > to take me to the hospital... when I started having a very hard time

> > breathing, my oldest sister took me to the er !!

> >

> > Jackie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

When my therapist discovered that I have very few 1st person memories from ages

7 - 10 and a whole lot of 'spotty and traumatic memories' from 11-14, she

solidified her belief that we were on the trail of BPD.... I never asked her

why... I'll do that tomorrow.

Lynnette

>

> I think it's interesting how many of these stories start with " when I was 11 " ,

" when I was 12 " ...

>

> Puberty is the perfect time for a nada to start *especially*

resenting/hating/being jealous of/wanting to hurt her daughter.

>

> -Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

LOL you're right, it IS exhausting !! and I always hated the Alice in

wonderland books

Jackie

It is exhausting trying to live with an insane mother, trying to make sense

of nonsense. The first time I tried to read Carol's " Alice in

Wonderland " and " Through the Looking Glass " I actually found it upsetting.

Alice's nightmare was too close to my waking reality: I was trying to

understand, to please and get along with the Queen of Hearts who at any

moment could go ballistic on me and scream " Off with her head! " Even the

relatively benign characters in " TtLG " such as Humpty Dumpty are obnoxious

and controlling, illustrated by this exchange:

`I don't know what you mean by " glory " ,' Alice said (to HD.)

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. `Of course you don't -- till I tell

you. I meant " there's a nice knock-down argument for you! " '

`But " glory " doesn't mean " a nice knock-down argument " ,' Alice objected.

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it

means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

****

I had to warp reality in order to just survive being in my nada's presence,

and it took decades for me to understand what was done to me and to get a

handle on how normal people behave so that I could engage in at least some

normal social interactions.

My nada did the emotional equivalent of breaking my legs, over and over

again, and never allowing them to heal up properly before breaking them

again, so that I still limp through life. I am better than I was, I am more

sociable now, more willing to trust people, I have more friends now than I

ever did before, but she damaged me in ways that are not fixable. I have

hope, though, that I can still improve and get as much fun as I can out of

life.

-Annie