Re: Do you tell your mom you think she's got BPD?

[Guest guest]

At 09:10 AM 04/17/2009 Amber Fraley wrote:

>I recently read Understanding the Borderline Mother and have

>found that it explains much of my mom's behavior. She's pretty

>much equal parts Queen, Waif and Hermit.

>

>But I have read so many online comments to " never let your

>mother find this book " !

>

>Really? How is the person with BPD supposed to know they have

>it unless someone clues them in?

They generally don't want to know things like that and seeing

the book isn't likely to clue them in because they " know " that

there's nothing wrong with them. That's part of having BPD. If

you show them the book, they're more likely to either decide

you're plotting against them and/or that you're the one who has

BPD. They don't see themselves in descriptions of BPD because

they don't think there is anything wrong with the things they

do.

>Anyway, I guess I'm trying to figure out if I just cut off

>contact or try one more time to get her to see she needs help.

If the only choices are trying to convince her that she has BPD

or cutting off contact, I'd go with the latter because the

former is only likely to result in drama and unpleasantness. BPs

don't believe mental health professionals who diagnose them with

BPD. It is really unlikely that your mom is going to believe it

coming from you or a book you provide.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

People say not to let Nada find that book, because BP's are notorious for

refusing to acknowledge that they need help, and attacking those who try to

help them. So by letting the nada know that you think she is mentally ill,

you will be doing yourself great harm, and doing no good for her. The

general train of thought is that it's better to find therapy and learning

for yourself, and coping mechanisms to deal with, or go NC with nada,

because Nada's don't get better.

My nada makes the same kinds of claims that yours does. She says my father

abused her, is on drugs, is a vile, vile person, and none of it is true. She

does it to get attention and sympathy. Or maybe she really does believe it.

But no one is going to convince her otherwise, and she will say it to anyone

who will listen.

>

>

> I recently read Understanding the Borderline Mother and have found that it

> explains much of my mom's behavior. She's pretty much equal parts Queen,

> Waif and Hermit.

>

> But I have read so many online comments to " never let your mother find this

> book " !

>

> Really? How is the person with BPD supposed to know they have it unless

> someone clues them in?

>

> I'm not speaking to my mother right now because she's accused me of " trying

> to have her committed " when I've done no such thing. (I wrote a letter of

> concern to her therapist who immediately dismissed my concerns.) I don't

> know how much more of her wild and upsetting accusations I can take. She's

> accused my daughter's grandfathers of sexually abusing her (not true) and

> she claims that my dad sexually abused me. (Also not true.) Mom and dad have

> been divorced since 1980 but you'd think it was yesterday from the hate that

> spews from her mouth. She even makes hateful phone calls to him, even though

> they've been divorced for 29 years!!! They were only married 14.

>

> I'm also pretty sure she's BPD because dad is a big-time narcissist,

> although I have to say that in his older years, dad and I are actually

> getting along much better. Since I'm getting along with dad, my mother of

> course interprets this as me being against her, when it's nothing of the

> sort.

>

> Anyway, I guess I'm trying to figure out if I just cut off contact or try

> one more time to get her to see she needs help.

>

> Thanks.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well my nada cannot handle the slightest form of personal criticism so my

telling her she's mentally ill would send her completely over the edge. She

yelled at me then didn't speak to me for 4 days when I suggested she was

becoming hard of hearing in her 70's!

>

> I recently read Understanding the Borderline Mother and have found that it

explains much of my mom's behavior. She's pretty much equal parts Queen, Waif

and Hermit.

>

> But I have read so many online comments to " never let your mother find this

book " !

>

> Really? How is the person with BPD supposed to know they have it unless

someone clues them in?

>

> I'm not speaking to my mother right now because she's accused me of " trying to

have her committed " when I've done no such thing. (I wrote a letter of concern

to her therapist who immediately dismissed my concerns.) I don't know how much

more of her wild and upsetting accusations I can take. She's accused my

daughter's grandfathers of sexually abusing her (not true) and she claims that

my dad sexually abused me. (Also not true.) Mom and dad have been divorced since

1980 but you'd think it was yesterday from the hate that spews from her mouth.

She even makes hateful phone calls to him, even though they've been divorced for

29 years!!! They were only married 14.

>

> I'm also pretty sure she's BPD because dad is a big-time narcissist, although

I have to say that in his older years, dad and I are actually getting along much

better. Since I'm getting along with dad, my mother of course interprets this as

me being against her, when it's nothing of the sort.

>

> Anyway, I guess I'm trying to figure out if I just cut off contact or try one

more time to get her to see she needs help.

>

> Thanks.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> >

> >

> > I recently read Understanding the Borderline Mother and have found that it

> > explains much of my mom's behavior. She's pretty much equal parts Queen,

> > Waif and Hermit.

> >

> > But I have read so many online comments to " never let your mother find this

> > book " !

> >

> > Really? How is the person with BPD supposed to know they have it unless

> > someone clues them in?

> >

> > I'm not speaking to my mother right now because she's accused me of " trying

> > to have her committed " when I've done no such thing. (I wrote a letter of

> > concern to her therapist who immediately dismissed my concerns.) I don't

> > know how much more of her wild and upsetting accusations I can take. She's

> > accused my daughter's grandfathers of sexually abusing her (not true) and

> > she claims that my dad sexually abused me. (Also not true.) Mom and dad have

> > been divorced since 1980 but you'd think it was yesterday from the hate that

> > spews from her mouth. She even makes hateful phone calls to him, even though

> > they've been divorced for 29 years!!! They were only married 14.

> >

> > I'm also pretty sure she's BPD because dad is a big-time narcissist,

> > although I have to say that in his older years, dad and I are actually

> > getting along much better. Since I'm getting along with dad, my mother of

> > course interprets this as me being against her, when it's nothing of the

> > sort.

> >

> > Anyway, I guess I'm trying to figure out if I just cut off contact or try

> > one more time to get her to see she needs help.

> >

> > Thanks.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks, everyone. This is kind of what I thought. I've already gotten myself

into trouble.

See, my mom has been in therapy for years, but I'm pretty sure she seeks out

therapists who only tell her what she wants to hear. I know for a fact she does

this with medical doctors. She goes to several until she finds one who will

" diagnose " her with whatever ailment she's convinced she's got.

So I wrote this letter to her therapist saying that I had concerns about my

mom's mental health that I didn't think they were addressing. This was BEFORE I

read the book " Understanding the Borderline Mother " .

Now, she's telling everyone that I tried to have her committed. I refuse to

speak to her now. I've spent so much money and time trying to help her with

various things that I really ticks me off that she'd accuse me of something so

heinous.

[Guest guest]

How does she react to other things she does not want to hear?  How would she

react if you told her you were terminally ill or were joining a cult or becoming

a lesbian?  People are remarkably consistent.  If she would react badly to other

kinds of unpleasant news coming from you, she'll react badly to this.

No one really wants to be told they are seriously and almost incurably ill, no

one wants to be told they are mentally ill, and they certainly don't want to be

told by their own children.

Do you want to deal with that reaction, or are you okay with the idea of

her leaving her diagnosis and treatment to her to find out about and figure out

for herself?

Best of luck,

Ashana

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[Guest guest]

This thread has been very helpful to me in thinking about a conversation I

had last night with my BPD mom. She was higher than a kite and I was painted

all white big time for some reason unknown to me (which now that I know more

about BPD I actually found extremely irritating and actually felt physically

sick to my stomach the longer the conversation went on - another issue for

another time perhaps).

Anyway, she reads me this letter from her psychiatrist that is for her

attorney in a defense of a DUI she received recently. She had been totally

whacked out on meds for many months (all kinds of doctors prescribing and

changing her really powerful psyciatric medications as she was not seeing a

psychiatrist at the time). She's bad without her meds being screwed up, but

she's really awful when the meds are off whether it is because of a doctor's

error or her willful or intentional taking them incorrectly both of which

have happened multiple times. I had been saying to her for weeks if not

months things like " Have you changed any of your medications? " " Are you

taking all of your pills? " " I think something is off in your medicaitons. "

So, she suddenly stops taking one of the drugs because a doctor told her to

- either Zanex or Effexor (whichever one has the major withdrawal if stopped

suddenly) and she basically completely went nuts for several days! which

culminated in her driving into a parked car and being arrested with a DUI

and a ten day stay in the psych ward - as she was clearly under the

influence of something when the neighbors and police found her.

So, the psychiatrist's letter in my opinion is basically just an

explaination of the facts - what medicines she was taking and what the

effect of stopping the one suddenly is - all in proper medical language. But

she is sooo happy and feels like the letter is so caring and compassionate

and isn't he a wonderful man. (Her psychiatrist is obviously painted all

white currently as she just started seeing him.) I actually thought it a

little funny because he refers multiple times to the effects on " the

elderly " . He's basically calling her elderly, which she hates to be called

,and she still thinks this statement of facts about drug effects is this

really kind and caring letter to her (it's actually to the attorney or

court).

All this is background to get to the part where she suddenly says " So, I

hope by reading that to you that you can see what was really going on then. "

(translation: that I have no responsibility, please stop blaming me/thinking

I am crazy/mentally ill). My husband said he saw that cominga mile away, but

for some reason I did not. I just said, " Mom, I knew that your meds were

screwed up and and said so at the time. " I was very careful to only validate

what was actually true and not more than that. I also acknowledged that her

current meds seem to be better (which they really do - her mood has been

much more stable overall.) She seemed so relieved ( " Did you really? " ) and

acted as if somehow now everything was great. I did not say what I was

thinking - but you are still crazy! Instead I just changed the subject.

Right after the phone call I was wondering if I should have said something

more like " Your meds were screwed up. I'm glad the psychiatrist seems to be

getting the meds straightened out, but you still have a lot of things to

work on and there has always been more going on with your mental health than

just messed up meds. " My brother never would have let she said go and he

would not have sugarcoated it at all (You are completely nuts - kind of

line), so I was concerned that in the moment I avoided the truth just to

protect myself. But reading this thread I am reminded that I can tell her

she is mentally ill all I want, but until she is ready to hear it and do

something about it it won't do any good. It will only result in rages from

her (I'm sure if i had said this, I would have flipped to black for her in a

second.) I have a long way to go to getting to the point of not letting

these kinds of things from her bother me. I want her to own her part and I

still have the delusion that I can and have the responsibility to help her

to see reality. She can make me feel sick and oh so angry and frustrated

(whether she is raging or acting all sweet) with all of her twisting of

reality, but I do need to learn to let it go and not let it bother me like

it does.

my

>

>

> Amber,

>

> That's a hope I held onto for way too long - even before I knew about

> BP. I hoped my nada would get that she needed help for more than

> depression. On some level deep within her, I know she really fears that

> something is wrong with her and has fought it so vehemently that any

> mere hint in that direction has always sent her into a major meltdown.

> She has a radar more sensitive than the hairs on a fly - and on various

> occasions has even made comments like " I'm not crazy " or " everyone looks

> at me like I'm crazy " or " don't even think about trying and

> intervention " when we had thought, but never mentioned any such terms to

> her. It actually kinda made the hairs on my neck stand up -- her

> " sense. " The one time I did actually say to her that I thought she was

> indeed mentally ill and needed help - she got very calm and then

> proceeded to try to convince me why I was wrong - sounding all the

> crazier still in her rationalizations. It was even more creepy -

> tending more to psychopathy.

>

> BP's are very capable of fooling their therapists/psychiatrists - if the

> therapist doesn't have the full context. If her therapist is not

> receptive to your concerns - there you have it. The one time I had

> contact with one of my nada's therapists (nada insisted that the

> therapist call me so she could straighten me out on how I should treat

> poor nada because of her depression), I was very straight with the

> counselor about nada - and her treatment of me. When she found out how

> nada had acted during my bout with cancer - she was stunned.) She

> obviously took a different approach with nada after that, since nada

> called and berated me for turning her therapist against her - and said

> she had " fired " her.

>

> It sounds as though your nada falls in the complete denial category. I

> guarantee you, if she read a book on BPD or the like, she would

> certainly not recognize herself, and would more likely say, " I know

> people just like that. They're awful and only care about themselves. "

> Mirrors don't work for them. They only see the " internal " image they

> have created of themselves - they don't " see " what's in front of their

> face.

>

> I can't tell you not to try, but I fear you will only continue to be

> disappointed and hurt.

>

> Suzy

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Abby! Oh, my lord. A " visit " from your nada is more like an infestation. Oh,

you can't let that happen. It sounds HORRIBLE. You've got to limit it,

somehow, to a " reasonable " period of time. For your sanity. Either that or be

heavily sedated (just kidding, sort of). GEEZ. And I thought crazy twisted

hate mail was bad - I'm getting off easy.

Joanna

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " abby_doo " wrote:

>

> Nada's idea of a visit in the past has been 6 weeks! At one point she wanted

to come for 3-4 months - I said no. She doesn't get it. She doesn't care that

she imposes herself and is like the houseguest from hell. She can't just visit

and enjoy herself. She throws everything out of whack - routines, meals, etc.

She doesn't adapt to what we do. By the fourth or fifth day of her visit, hubby

and I are no longer speaking to each other because I'm so stressed out and you

can cut the tension in the house with a knife. Last visit we agreed to 8-10 days

because she travels about 2,000 miles to get here. She disregarded what we

agreed to and booked her trip for 17 days. The previous time we agreed to 2

weeks and she left 21 days later. She pushes it all the time and makes no

apologies. She is afterall the queen.

>

> Abby

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > This thread has been very helpful to me in thinking about a conversation

I

> > > > had last night with my BPD mom. She was higher than a kite and I was

painted

> > > > all white big time for some reason unknown to me (which now that I know

more

> > > > about BPD I actually found extremely irritating and actually felt

physically

> > > > sick to my stomach the longer the conversation went on - another issue

for

> > > > another time perhaps).

> > >

> >

>