Re: Re: new here! Questions!

[Guest guest]

nne,

I think there's a link on the Shoman site for the new endo guidelines

about the new ranges of .3 to 3.3. Yea, you need more Armour. Logic tells

you....if you don't find the written stuff...that you need to actually know the

T4 and T3 levels...but again, check out www.thyroid.about.com for this info.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/13/2004 4:21:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,

marianne@... writes:

> have the Armour on its way from Mexico, so I can up my dose on

> my own, but I would like to look into the adrenal connection too.

>

I thought my adrenals were in poor shape...but my 24-hr urine clearance test

and cortisol serum were okay....I think sometimes it's a matter of letting

your body heal as the Armour does its work and all gets better.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/13/2004 4:21:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,

marianne@... writes:

> 3-What are the proper numbers of these tests when I do get them run?

>

nne

Free T4 (Thyroxine) 0.7 - 1.9

Free T3 (Triiodothyronine) 230 -619

Cindi

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/13/2004 4:30:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,

cris@... writes:

> I plan on buying on my own if the doctor refuses or doesn't know enough to

> treat me with it.

> I have taken my doctor information before on drugs/fibromyalgia and he blows

> them off. NOTHING that I could find, could possibly be of any use or

> factual.

>

Good for you. I wouldn't tolerate a doctor that didn't listen to me. I

recently fired one. Wrote him a short note telling him I was going to a new

doctor who would work with me to suppress my TSH and optimize my Free T4 and

Free

T3 levels.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

>>>>Because so often, a

doc you have to convince to put you on Armour will fail you down the

line by not allowing you to be on ENOUGH. They also tend to leave you

on then initial dose too long, which causes the hypo to return with a

vengeance!!<<<<<

This is where I am.. I convinced my doc to switch me to Armour last year. He

was the one that said that doesn't work, and I told him I wanted to try it

anyway. The first day on Armour I noticed a wonderful difference. My feet

were warm for the first time in years, and I live in Florida!

Everything seemed great.. Well here I am a year later still on 1gr. Feeling

terrible. I just had my TSH checked last week at 3.59. I assume he thinks

that is OK, since I didn't get a call to change the dose.

So, now I have found this group and realize the problems.

Soooo,

I have an appointment Monday.

1-Where is some information to take him about the proper TSH level?

2-Where is the info on why to do the freeT-3 and T-4 tests.

3-What are the proper numbers of these tests when I do get them run?

4-How do I get him to do the adrenal test?

I realize I will probably have to find a different doctor eventually, but

since he is on my insurance plan, I thought I could at least get him to do

the tests. I have the Armour on its way from Mexico, so I can up my dose on

my own, but I would like to look into the adrenal connection too.

Thanks you all,

This is the best group I have ever seen!

nne

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the welcome!

I found out that my aunt takes 1/4 gr of Armour and .1MG of Levoxyl

I'll have to look up Levoxyl to see what it is - from one of the charts I

printed from the files section, it is listed with the Levothyroxine tabs -

synthroid etc.

I take 50mcg of synthroid - I'd like to have my levels taken now - before I

start armour. I plan on buying on my own if the doctor refuses or doesn't know

enough to treat me with it.

I have taken my doctor information before on drugs/fibromyalgia and he blows

them off. NOTHING that I could find, could possibly be of any use or factual.

Cris

Re: new here! Questions!

HI there Cris! Welcome to this group. I can also add that it's the

free T3 and free T4 you need to ask for. Your goal is to get that

free T3 towards the top of the range, NO MATTER HOW LOW it WILL get

your TSH. My TSH is .009 on my optimal dose of Armour, and that does

NOT mean I am hyper, as some docs think. It just means I am letting

the Armour do most of what it needs to do, and not depending on a

sick thyroid, which can't do it anyway.

When I mentioned the free T3 above, I do want to add that when I

first got on Armour, I was very systematic and dosed by labs. But

when I got up to 2 1/4 grains, I started adding a little Armour at a

time, dosing by symptoms only. Once I felt like all my symptoms were

gone, I went and did labs just for the heck of it. My free T3 was

just over the top, and my TSH was the .009. 3 grains.

And as far as trying to convince him---I personally would not if

there is any way you can find a much better doc. Because so often, a

doc you have to convince to put you on Armour will fail you down the

line by not allowing you to be on ENOUGH. They also tend to leave you

on then initial dose too long, which causes the hypo to return with a

vengeance!!

But, if you are stuck with this doc for the time being, there are a

few good articles in the FILES you can copy and take to him. Good

luck!! )

Janie

> IF I beg my doctor to run bloodwork - what specifically, are the

tests that I need to ask him to run. He only ever runs the old style

tests. And are there tests for Adrenal function?

>

> And! How do I convince him to write me a script for armour? I'm

believing that he doesn't know enough about it to do that. My aunt

takes both Armour and ?? something else. I've written to her to ask

what she takes.

[Guest guest]

good questions!

My doctor doesn't believe that the levels have changed. He didn't believe that

Syntroid was refusing to go thru the process to be re-approved -

I believe the lab I have to go to puts the normal levels down - and the last

time I was checked, they still had the old levels - .5 to 5.0 being normal range

for TSH !!

Cris

RE: Re: new here! Questions!

>>>>Because so often, a

doc you have to convince to put you on Armour will fail you down the

line by not allowing you to be on ENOUGH. They also tend to leave you

on then initial dose too long, which causes the hypo to return with a

vengeance!!<<<<<

This is where I am.. I convinced my doc to switch me to Armour last year. He

was the one that said that doesn't work, and I told him I wanted to try it

anyway. The first day on Armour I noticed a wonderful difference. My feet

were warm for the first time in years, and I live in Florida!

Everything seemed great.. Well here I am a year later still on 1gr. Feeling

terrible. I just had my TSH checked last week at 3.59. I assume he thinks

that is OK, since I didn't get a call to change the dose.

So, now I have found this group and realize the problems.

Soooo,

I have an appointment Monday.

1-Where is some information to take him about the proper TSH level?

2-Where is the info on why to do the freeT-3 and T-4 tests.

3-What are the proper numbers of these tests when I do get them run?

4-How do I get him to do the adrenal test?

I realize I will probably have to find a different doctor eventually, but

since he is on my insurance plan, I thought I could at least get him to do

the tests. I have the Armour on its way from Mexico, so I can up my dose on

my own, but I would like to look into the adrenal connection too.

Thanks you all,

This is the best group I have ever seen!

nne

[Guest guest]

It's almost like they are into some form of punishment and a control device for

not seeing it their way, huh? This is how they still keep you for a patient

(your money), and still maintain a certain amt of control, sort of like spousal

abusers. You need to let this doc know that you can order your own Armour any

time you want to, if he/she will not believe that you know your body better than

anyone. They may release you, but that's ok, there are other doctors. They

have a god syndrome.

RE: Re: new here! Questions!

>>>>Because so often, a

doc you have to convince to put you on Armour will fail you down the

line by not allowing you to be on ENOUGH. They also tend to leave you

on then initial dose too long, which causes the hypo to return with a

vengeance!!<<<<<

This is where I am.. I convinced my doc to switch me to Armour last year. He

was the one that said that doesn't work, and I told him I wanted to try it

anyway. The first day on Armour I noticed a wonderful difference. My feet

were warm for the first time in years, and I live in Florida!

Everything seemed great.. Well here I am a year later still on 1gr. Feeling

terrible. I just had my TSH checked last week at 3.59. I assume he thinks

that is OK, since I didn't get a call to change the dose.

So, now I have found this group and realize the problems.

Soooo,

I have an appointment Monday.

1-Where is some information to take him about the proper TSH level?

2-Where is the info on why to do the freeT-3 and T-4 tests.

3-What are the proper numbers of these tests when I do get them run?

4-How do I get him to do the adrenal test?

I realize I will probably have to find a different doctor eventually, but

since he is on my insurance plan, I thought I could at least get him to do

the tests. I have the Armour on its way from Mexico, so I can up my dose on

my own, but I would like to look into the adrenal connection too.

Thanks you all,

This is the best group I have ever seen!

nne

[Guest guest]

Levoxyl is supposed to be the only one that does not contain lactose, and it now

is formulated to dissolve quickly in the mouth. This is what I was on during my

last yrs of T4-only thyroid med. They have had numerous recalls, but so did

$ynthroid. I don't think that Unithroid has had recalls, but all these have so

many fillers that I'm allergic to, that I don't want to take any of them. I

probably need that little bit of extra T4 balance, but no thank you, I want to

breathe normally!

Re: Re: new here! Questions!

Thank you for the welcome!

I found out that my aunt takes 1/4 gr of Armour and .1MG of Levoxyl

I'll have to look up Levoxyl to see what it is - from one of the charts I

printed from the files section, it is listed with the Levothyroxine tabs -

synthroid etc.

I take 50mcg of synthroid - I'd like to have my levels taken now - before I

start armour. I plan on buying on my own if the doctor refuses or doesn't know

enough to treat me with it.

I have taken my doctor information before on drugs/fibromyalgia and he blows

them off. NOTHING that I could find, could possibly be of any use or factual.

Cris

[Guest guest]

Oooohhh!! So this doctor basically called you a liar about the $ynthroid, huh?

Ok, this doctor is getting perks from the pharmaceutical company(ies). This is

always what's going on when they know what you're saying is true, but pretend

like it isn't happening. Vacations, money, etc......It would be time for me to

go. Think about it----this doctor is getting your money (or your insurance

company's money), and treating you like a dog!

Re: Re: new here! Questions!

good questions!

My doctor doesn't believe that the levels have changed. He didn't believe that

Syntroid was refusing to go thru the process to be re-approved -

I believe the lab I have to go to puts the normal levels down - and the last

time I was checked, they still had the old levels - .5 to 5.0 being normal range

for TSH !!

Cris

[Guest guest]

Thank you ! I'll check this out -

Which tests on the site did you do??

I'll check 1st with my doctor, just in the 'off chance' he'll order them !! LOL

Cris

Re: new here! Questions!

Cris,

You can also get saliva tests for cortisol (adrenal function) via online. They

use 4

samples to evaluated the adrenals, one at 8am, 12noon, 4pm and midnight. They

also test DHEA to obtain the cortisol/DHEA ratio. Here are a couple:

http://www.salivatest.com/index.html

http://www.gsdl.com/

The first one doesn't need any doctor involvement. The second does.

I'm " patiently " awaiting my own test results and did them through ZRT, which is

the

first one listed.

Janet

> so if I ask him to run adrenal function tests, he'll know what to run? <smile>

> He'll really call my a hypochondriac now!! LOL

> I can't even get him to run my liver function tests required for some of the

drugs

that I take!!

> yeah, I know - switch doctors!!

> Cris

[Guest guest]

LOL they DEFINITELY have a GOD syndrome! as do many of their employees!!!

Cris

RE: Re: new here! Questions!

>>>>Because so often, a

doc you have to convince to put you on Armour will fail you down the

line by not allowing you to be on ENOUGH. They also tend to leave you

on then initial dose too long, which causes the hypo to return with a

vengeance!!<<<<<

This is where I am.. I convinced my doc to switch me to Armour last year. He

was the one that said that doesn't work, and I told him I wanted to try it

anyway. The first day on Armour I noticed a wonderful difference. My feet

were warm for the first time in years, and I live in Florida!

Everything seemed great.. Well here I am a year later still on 1gr. Feeling

terrible. I just had my TSH checked last week at 3.59. I assume he thinks

that is OK, since I didn't get a call to change the dose.

So, now I have found this group and realize the problems.

Soooo,

I have an appointment Monday.

1-Where is some information to take him about the proper TSH level?

2-Where is the info on why to do the freeT-3 and T-4 tests.

3-What are the proper numbers of these tests when I do get them run?

4-How do I get him to do the adrenal test?

I realize I will probably have to find a different doctor eventually, but

since he is on my insurance plan, I thought I could at least get him to do

the tests. I have the Armour on its way from Mexico, so I can up my dose on

my own, but I would like to look into the adrenal connection too.

Thanks you all,

This is the best group I have ever seen!

nne

[Guest guest]

which reminds me - when i told my doctor that synthroid was in 'hot water' and

he didn't believe me because he hadn't heard that - I mentioned that I would

prefer unithroid to synthroid - and he refused that too. I'm betting that the

makers of synthroid get a big kickback or something! Thanks!!

Cris

Re: Re: new here! Questions!

Thank you for the welcome!

I found out that my aunt takes 1/4 gr of Armour and .1MG of Levoxyl

I'll have to look up Levoxyl to see what it is - from one of the charts I

printed from the files section, it is listed with the Levothyroxine tabs -

synthroid etc.

I take 50mcg of synthroid - I'd like to have my levels taken now - before I

start armour. I plan on buying on my own if the doctor refuses or doesn't know

enough to treat me with it.

I have taken my doctor information before on drugs/fibromyalgia and he blows

them off. NOTHING that I could find, could possibly be of any use or factual.

Cris

[Guest guest]

You are exactly right - there is something going on there - and my girlfriend

used to work for him, and recommended him! that's how I ended up there in the

1st place!! of course, she's a nurse - and I'm sorry to say, because not all

nurses are like this, she has the same GOD complex that his employees have! He's

supposedly a very smart man! maybe... but you could have fooled me!

Cris

Re: Re: new here! Questions!

good questions!

My doctor doesn't believe that the levels have changed. He didn't believe that

Syntroid was refusing to go thru the process to be re-approved -

I believe the lab I have to go to puts the normal levels down - and the last

time I was checked, they still had the old levels - .5 to 5.0 being normal range

for TSH !!

Cris

[Guest guest]

When I first discovered I had problems my Dr. overmedicated me!! He had me

up to 240 mg. (not sure how that plays out in grains) and I told him my

heart was racing - felt jittery. I was the first person he'd ever even used

Armour on - an army Doc. He just decided I was " hypomanic " or in other

words - the manic side of bi-polar! What a bonehead! He was good in some

ways or at least willing to put me on it - but I was losing weight like

crazy and hyper as all get out. BP was climbing. I went to an internist

when the other was deployed somewhere for a few weeks and he said NOT to go

back to this guy for treatment and that anything above 120 mg. was toxic. I

dont' know about that - but I've stayed there for a while now. 2 Doctors

have tried to lower me and I felt horrible. My period was off - hypo

symptoms. So I found a Doc who uses Armour and he is letting me stay on the

same dosage. My labs show both hypo and hyper. One guy was ready to oblate

my thyroid (no way) but then my T4 levels dropped although my TSH is still

way suppressed. I know now my symptoms point to pituitary but no one can

figure that out so I am self treating with pituitary glandulars and for the

past 3 months have had normal periods and feel more energetic. But my BP is

rising so wonder if its causing my thyroid meds to need lowered. I feel

like I'm the Dr. here. I'm also new to Georgia and lived in Alaska before

this for 6 years so am not use to this heat. My chiropractor says my BP

could mean I need more water which makes sense - but I have that hyper

jittery feeling again. Have autoimmune hashimotos so you do have your ups

and downs. I am trying to eat right for my type (type O+) and wheat and all

those foods with lectins that cause my blood to agglutinate are supposed to

aggravate such things. O's are prone to autoimmune thyroid disease - but

also have proven mercury/lead and tin poisoing. Jeanie

>

>Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>To: <NaturalThyroidHormones >

>Subject: RE: Re: new here! Questions!

>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:16:17 -0400

>

> >>>>Because so often, a

>doc you have to convince to put you on Armour will fail you down the

>line by not allowing you to be on ENOUGH. They also tend to leave you

>on then initial dose too long, which causes the hypo to return with a

>vengeance!!<<<<<

>

>

>

>This is where I am.. I convinced my doc to switch me to Armour last year.

>He

>was the one that said that doesn't work, and I told him I wanted to try it

>anyway. The first day on Armour I noticed a wonderful difference. My feet

>were warm for the first time in years, and I live in Florida!

>Everything seemed great.. Well here I am a year later still on 1gr. Feeling

>terrible. I just had my TSH checked last week at 3.59. I assume he thinks

>that is OK, since I didn't get a call to change the dose.

>So, now I have found this group and realize the problems.

>Soooo,

>I have an appointment Monday.

>1-Where is some information to take him about the proper TSH level?

>2-Where is the info on why to do the freeT-3 and T-4 tests.

>3-What are the proper numbers of these tests when I do get them run?

>4-How do I get him to do the adrenal test?

>

>I realize I will probably have to find a different doctor eventually, but

>since he is on my insurance plan, I thought I could at least get him to do

>the tests. I have the Armour on its way from Mexico, so I can up my dose

>on

>my own, but I would like to look into the adrenal connection too.

>

>Thanks you all,

>This is the best group I have ever seen!

>nne

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, Unithroid has not the recalls that $ynthroid has had, and it would be the

DOC that's getting the perks from prescribing the $ynthroid. All kinds of perks

from the drug companies. These large companies have billions to spend on

" education " , etc....

Re: Re: new here! Questions!

which reminds me - when i told my doctor that synthroid was in 'hot water' and

he didn't believe me because he hadn't heard that - I mentioned that I would

prefer unithroid to synthroid - and he refused that too. I'm betting that the

makers of synthroid get a big kickback or something! Thanks!!

Cris

[Guest guest]

I have A+ blood type and have both major antibodies, with very high levels of

both. Everything I've read on the sbjct of the way the healthy thyroid

naturally acts is that we may need more thyroid hormone in the winter and less

in the summer. If you're in a particularly hot climate, you might want to check

that out. Besides, Hashi's notoriously has bleepy swings back and forth from

time to time, even once you've had it for awhile, particularly when the

antibodies are up. It can get crazy. I'm with you on the metal poisoning.

RE: Re: new here! Questions!

>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:16:17 -0400

>

> >>>>Because so often, a

>doc you have to convince to put you on Armour will fail you down the

>line by not allowing you to be on ENOUGH. They also tend to leave you

>on then initial dose too long, which causes the hypo to return with a

>vengeance!!<<<<<

>

>

>

>This is where I am.. I convinced my doc to switch me to Armour last year.

>He

>was the one that said that doesn't work, and I told him I wanted to try it

>anyway. The first day on Armour I noticed a wonderful difference. My feet

>were warm for the first time in years, and I live in Florida!

>Everything seemed great.. Well here I am a year later still on 1gr. Feeling

>terrible. I just had my TSH checked last week at 3.59. I assume he thinks

>that is OK, since I didn't get a call to change the dose.

>So, now I have found this group and realize the problems.

>Soooo,

>I have an appointment Monday.

>1-Where is some information to take him about the proper TSH level?

>2-Where is the info on why to do the freeT-3 and T-4 tests.

>3-What are the proper numbers of these tests when I do get them run?

>4-How do I get him to do the adrenal test?

>

>I realize I will probably have to find a different doctor eventually, but

>since he is on my insurance plan, I thought I could at least get him to do

>the tests. I have the Armour on its way from Mexico, so I can up my dose

>on

>my own, but I would like to look into the adrenal connection too.

>

>Thanks you all,

>This is the best group I have ever seen!

>nne

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks! I'll look ofr your new post!

cris

Re: new here! Questions!

Hi Cris,

I got the diurnal cortisol (4x during the day), DHEA-S, estrogen and

progesterone

with E:P ratio, and testosterone. Salivatest.com took 10 working days from

receipt of

specimen until I got the results. I emailed them and asked them to email the

results

to me to save mailing time. (See new post for my results.) Email with the

results

came in PDF format. Pretty interesting! They also give comments at the end of

the

report.

Janet

> Thank you ! I'll check this out -

> Which tests on the site did you do??

> I'll check 1st with my doctor, just in the 'off chance' he'll order them !!

LOL

> Cris

[Guest guest]

and I think they deliberately, don't hear what they don't want to hear!!

cris

Re: new here! Questions!

The docs get the kickbacks. Vacations, expensive perks, etc. The makers of

Synthroid also fund a lot of the med schools and various programs for docs.

This is

what I've heard from various sources. And it makes sense.

Janet

> which reminds me - when i told my doctor that synthroid was in 'hot water' and

he

didn't believe me because he hadn't heard that - I mentioned that I would prefer

unithroid to synthroid - and he refused that too. I'm betting that the makers of

synthroid get a big kickback or something! Thanks!!

> Cris

[Guest guest]

I am a+ also. I wonder if there is a correlation with the low folic acid anemia

RE: Re: new here! Questions!

>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:16:17 -0400

>

> >>>>Because so often, a

>doc you have to convince to put you on Armour will fail you down the

>line by not allowing you to be on ENOUGH. They also tend to leave you

>on then initial dose too long, which causes the hypo to return with a

>vengeance!!<<<<<

>

>

>

>This is where I am.. I convinced my doc to switch me to Armour last year.

>He

>was the one that said that doesn't work, and I told him I wanted to try it

>anyway. The first day on Armour I noticed a wonderful difference. My feet

>were warm for the first time in years, and I live in Florida!

>Everything seemed great.. Well here I am a year later still on 1gr. Feeling

>terrible. I just had my TSH checked last week at 3.59. I assume he thinks

>that is OK, since I didn't get a call to change the dose.

>So, now I have found this group and realize the problems.

>Soooo,

>I have an appointment Monday.

>1-Where is some information to take him about the proper TSH level?

>2-Where is the info on why to do the freeT-3 and T-4 tests.

>3-What are the proper numbers of these tests when I do get them run?

>4-How do I get him to do the adrenal test?

>

>I realize I will probably have to find a different doctor eventually, but

>since he is on my insurance plan, I thought I could at least get him to do

>the tests. I have the Armour on its way from Mexico, so I can up my dose

>on

>my own, but I would like to look into the adrenal connection too.

>

>Thanks you all,

>This is the best group I have ever seen!

>nne

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I thought about that also, Jamy, and I'll google something to try to check that

out. Very interesting. I remember reading a little magazine article 3 or 4 yrs

ago that mentioned eating according to blood type, and it did mention that type

A's do need to concentrate on the fruits and veggies. I turned up my nose at

that time.

Re: Re: new here! Questions!

I am a+ also. I wonder if there is a correlation with the low folic acid

anemia

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/18/2004 1:31:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, marin@...

writes:

> I LOVE beef, and eat it almost everyday.

This sentence jumped out at me...as I now crave meat...having formerly been

almost a vegetarian. It's really quite strange. I used to always eat lots of

wheat products and stuff (bagels, cereals, pasta, potatoes). since going

hypo, they don't appeal to me at all. Now I have to have meat and protein and

veggies....the other stuff doesn't appeal at all.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

Funny, I am anemic and need red meat but I seem to remember that is says for A

not to eat red meat. Folic acid is in spinach, asparagus, Brussels sprouts. With

no folic acid deficiency, I may not be anemic though.

Re: Re: new here! Questions!

I thought about that also, Jamy, and I'll google something to try to check

that out. Very interesting. I remember reading a little magazine article 3 or

4 yrs ago that mentioned eating according to blood type, and it did mention that

type A's do need to concentrate on the fruits and veggies. I turned up my nose

at that time.

[Guest guest]

I don't remember that, but I do know that, one of the few ways that we can get

our B12 through diet alone, is red meat. It's not concentrated in very much

else. The folic acid and B12 work off of each other. Something about the

receptors in the gut. I LOVE beef, and eat it almost everyday. This is why I

thought that, if I did have B12 deficiency, it would HAVE to be an absorption

problem, i.e., antibodies to intrinsic factor and antiparietal antibodies.

Re: Re: new here! Questions!

Funny, I am anemic and need red meat but I seem to remember that is says for A

not to eat red meat. Folic acid is in spinach, asparagus, Brussels sprouts. With

no folic acid deficiency, I may not be anemic though.

[Guest guest]

I am a big red meat eater and always have been. My b-12 was a bit low, but not

as low as folic acid. That you get from the green stuff. If the folic acid goes,

everything goes too. We are such strange machines! I think God liked jig-saw

puzzles or brain teasers! LOL

Re: Re: new here! Questions!

I don't remember that, but I do know that, one of the few ways that we can get

our B12 through diet alone, is red meat. It's not concentrated in very much

else. The folic acid and B12 work off of each other. Something about the

receptors in the gut. I LOVE beef, and eat it almost everyday. This is why I

thought that, if I did have B12 deficiency, it would HAVE to be an absorption

problem, i.e., antibodies to intrinsic factor and antiparietal antibodies.