Re: the mirror

[Guest guest]

OH...thats HORRIBLE!!! And such a basic question, though how to articulate an

answer to it...beats me.

She must have already had some fear that you didnt love her or something to have

reacted like that. In any event, to her Love is probably just a word.

> > >

> > > same with my nada..she even told me once that I HAVE to love her !! of

> > > course under my breath I said oh no I dont !!

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> > >

> > > With my nada, I believe its due to her false belief that nothing she can

> > > possibly do to us will drive us away permanently. She truly believes that

> > > Sister and I *have to* love her no matter what. Its our filial obligation,

I

> > > suppose. " Honor thy father and thy mother " and all that.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That is just awful. No words. Just a big cyber hug.

Damn....

>

> I belong to a narcissists list too ! since my nada is that as well as

> BPD..I remember vividly when she was trying to " teach " me how to swim in our

> pool . She would hold me head under water...and when I'd struggle to come

> up, she wouldn't let me. My sister pushed her away one time, and I came up

> gasping and coughing...sister got beat and sent to her room..nada tried it

> again..she shoved my head under the water, I wanted up and started

> struggling..I ended up scratching her arms with my finger nails..then the

> neighbor looked out his window and she let me up. I get beat and sent to my

> room for hurting her. I HATE swimming to this day..I HATE water splashed in

> my face...I get almost panicked by it

>

> Jackie

>

>

> I also belong to a site for the adult children of narcissists, and the

> horror stories over there make me just flabbergasted and sick.

> They are the next level down the staircase to hell.

>

> One woman's n-mom tried to smother her with a pillow when she was about 5

> years old. The child was cold and wanted to climb into bed with mommy.

> First the n-mom became angry and pushed the child away harshly, then n-mom

> changed her mind, sweet-talked the child into climbing back up in bed with

> n-mom, and then nearly succeeded in killing her little child.

>

> Sounds to me like your nada's emotional rheostat was set fairly high in the

> sociopathic range of behaviors if she tried to kill you on more than one

> occasion. That is so chilling. I'm so glad for you that you got lucky and

> survived what was passing for " parenting " in your life.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

thanks Annie, but back then ( in the 1960's and early 1970's) in was

unconscionable to think a mother would try and kill her kids. No one would

have believed me...I was called a big baby because I was afraid of the

water, and that I'd never amount to anything so why should she even waste

her time on me...and no, my nada should never have been allowed to raise any

of us kids ( well, maybe the her favorite) but when I'd mention something to

a teacher, they always told me I misunderstood...or I didn't get the facts

straight..so I learned no one but me would help me..and I became very

independent

Jackie

You poor little kid. Holy Freakin' Cow. How horrific for you, good Lord.

Your nada's behavior was more sociopathic, frankly, in my opinion, and she

could very well have succeeded in drowning you.

Thank God your sister and the neighbor were there, otherwise you might just

be an " accidental drowning " statistic.

You definitely should have been removed from your nada's " care, " she was too

disturbed to have been allowed to raise you and your sibs. Chilling. So

chilling.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

thanks..that wasn't the only time...once when I inhaled some food and was

choking, she jumped up and came over and started choking me with her

hands..I managed to kick her away ( I was in jr high then) she was

furious..she said she was " trying " to get the food dislodged ( by getting a

strangle hold on me ???)

Jackie

That is just awful. No words. Just a big cyber hug.

Damn....

[Guest guest]

OMG. Im not sure, cause I know I've repressed alot and have NO desire to get

the memories back, but I think your mom would anhillate my dad.

She's sounds really scary!!!!

>

> thanks..that wasn't the only time...once when I inhaled some food and was

> choking, she jumped up and came over and started choking me with her

> hands..I managed to kick her away ( I was in jr high then) she was

> furious..she said she was " trying " to get the food dislodged ( by getting a

> strangle hold on me ???)

>

> Jackie

>

>

> That is just awful. No words. Just a big cyber hug.

>

> Damn....

>

[Guest guest]

Something simlar happened to me. I was maybe 7 - 9 years old and my nada

was hitting me & kicking me. I can't remember her reason for it now, but I

managed to get to my feet & run to my room. Being a kid, I just jumped in

my bed & pulled the covers over my head (like that was really going to

protect me). Well, she came storming in & pounced on top of me & continued

to throw punches. Well at some point the covers came down from over my face

& I said " I hate it when you do this mommy " . The look on her face... I

swear, it is permanently burned into my brain. She didn't speak to me for

about 3 - 5 days afterwards, I can't remember the exact ammount of time but

it was several days. My step dad did everything for me. Somehow my step

dad convinced me to appologise to her when I asked why she was so angry with

me. He said it was because I said " I hate you " to her. I remember sitting

on his lap and I said " I didn't say that, I said I hate it when she does

that to me " . Well, I did appologise, but I remember feeling like I didn't

know why I was appologising. Then it was all hugs & snuggles from the Nada.

This very clear episode assures me of something though. I have other

memories (lots) of times when she would beat the living crap out of me but

they're not quite as put together as this memory. And I remember saying

very clearly " i hate it when you do this " which leads me to believe this was

not the first time she had done it. It's just the memory I can recall most

clearly of her physical rage. I've also spoke to my therapist about it and

she thinks part of the reason I don't remember other abuive episodes so

clearly is because I may be blocking them. She says I have PTSD and that

it's not uncomon for children of abusive parents to block out or forget

memories of abuse.

I bought " Stop Walking on Eggshells " yesterday, and the more I read it the

more convinced I am that she is the one who is ill. Sure, I have my own

issues from being raised by a Terrorist, but, I've tried to take

responsibility for them and fix myself. ly, I'm glad for it. I'm a

happy person now (and it drives nada mad that I am!) Reading the book I've

had little flashbacks of memories and I really do think she's probably BP.

This example sort of enforces that with the whole idea of being hated or

abandoned, so what did she do? She basically abandoned me for 3 - 5 days

before I could 'hurt her' any more.

I mentioned in my introduction, that I'm going through a divorce now and

have an amazing opportunity for work, housing & to complete my degree out of

state. I emailed Nada, called & left 2 messages and she's playing the

ignore game. Well, I'm tired of playing games. If she wants to be like

this, fine, I won't see her before I leave and will likely go NC when I do.

She doesn't have the address of where I'll be living and I've held off

giving her my cell phone number, and now I'm glad I did! She's taking the

divorce personally too and doesn't seem to unerstand that it's not an ugly

divorce. My soon-to-be-ex and I are getting along fine and only hired one

lawyer because we are able to compromise & agree on things without fighting.

I think this is unacceptable to Nada because both of her divorces were very

ugly. In fact, when I did tell her I was getting divorced, she said " hit

below the belt & take him for everything " . Sorry Nada, that's not my style.

ly, if I could divorce her right now, I would.

Justi

>

>

> When I was about 5, I was mad at my nada for something (I don't remember

> what) and I told her I hated her. This is a very normal thing for a kid to

> do. She slapped me across the face and told me, " You do NOT hate your

> MOTHER. "

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jackie - What, you've never heard of the " Reverse Heimlich Maneuver " ? Your

story of " learning to swim " made me see red. I've taught a few little kids how

to overcome fear of swimming - you NEVER force a panic by holding somebody's

head under water. What a monster she was. How on earth has she managed to stay

out of jail? Jeeeezus.

once when I inhaled some food and was

> choking, she jumped up and came over and started choking me with her

> hands..I managed to kick her away ( I was in jr high then) she was

> furious..she said she was " trying " to get the food dislodged ( by getting a

> strangle hold on me ???)

>

> Jackie

>

[Guest guest]

oh, exactly !!! even now, I will not speak to her on the phone without

hubby on the other phone or when we visit I will not let her drag me into

another room, I stay with the crowd...

Jackie

What's so insidious is that nadas do these things to their children when no

other adult is around to witness it, so its the child's word against their

parent's, and gee, how many small children have the ability to boldly stand

up for themselves like that?

In that way, that sneaky, do-it-behind-closed-doors way, the nada is sort of

like a pedophile, but nada gets her child alone in order to slap her around,

beat her or maybe kill her instead of sexually abusing her.

Deeply, deeply disturbed people. Chilling. Makes the idea of Big

Brother-type (or Reality TV Show type) recording cameras in every room sound

appealing.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

That's awesome. A nanny cam for your nada/fada. Its too bad children dont have

actual rights as I seriously wonder if it would hold up in court...like would it

be a violation of the parents right to privacy or some kind of bullshit like

that. I also wonder...if there had been such a thing when I was in HS and was

earning my own money if I would have thought to do something like that. Kinda

makes you wonder why there isnt more of that going on. Though, I must admit I

have seen some pretty fightening tapes made by teenagers of their raging

nada/fada's on youtube.

I really wonder if I'd known then what I know now...would I have taken advantage

of that forum. Hmmmmm.

But...ya know what kills me even more than the fact that nada/fada's do this

behind closed doors though, is when I see a child being publicly ridiculed or

mocked or screamed at or any of those invalidating type parenting behaviors.

Always makes me wonder " what's going on at home if they are willing to act like

that in public " .

> >

> > LOL thats a new one for me..the " reverse Heimlich " :-) She never went to

> > jail because no one ever turned her in...plus she has a silver tongue when

> > it comes to defending herself...she is a master at twisting things around so

> > she looks good or is the victim

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > Jackie - What, you've never heard of the " Reverse Heimlich Maneuver " ? Your

> > story of " learning to swim " made me see red. I've taught a few little kids

> > how to overcome fear of swimming - you NEVER force a panic by holding

> > somebody's head under water. What a monster she was. How on earth has she

> > managed to stay out of jail? Jeeeezus.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I totally agree !! My nada can turn it on and off when she wants to...she's

always so nice to her friends and outsiders, she NEVER treats outsiders like

she treats fada and me and my siblings. I have no sympathy for my

nada..she chooses to be nasty to me, even when I point out what I don't like

her doing, she does it any way...so obviously she doesn't care about me, and

wants to abuse me...

Jackie

This is why I believe that BPDs do have a choice on how they act. Yes, they

are sick-minded people and have no empathy, but they *know* how to play the

game. They can turn it " on " or " off " whenever they want. This, to me, is

clear cut proof that choosing to act on their sick intentions is their

*choice.* I have no sympathy for BPDs. They are just master manipulators

who hurt chosen people.

It's sick.

[Guest guest]

My Sister and I have discussed the idea of keeping a small recording device

going in our purses or pockets when we talk to nada because she will deny having

said something horrific 30 seconds after the fact. " I never said that! " " Um,

yes, you did, mom, and this is what it sounded like... "

I think that's *great* that teens are starting to use technology to expose

abusive parents! Really, really great! I think we're going to see a lot more of

that in coming years. Wow! Could result in more public awareness of how

dysfunctional pds can be, and possibly result in more rights/advocacy for

children and teens.

And I agree with you, when I see someone clearly being abusive with insulting,

mocking, ridiculing, humiliating raging and/or shaking their child in public it

just makes my blood boil. (And I think I'll start recording those incidents

whenever possible on my cel phone cam!)

I usually will walk over close to the parent and calmly say something like,

" Wow, you seem out of control to me; is this really necessary? Is there

something I can do to help you? " Half the time they'll scream at me to mind my

own business, sometimes they get themselves under control, and sometimes they

just keep screaming as they drag their child away. But I feel that making a

statement like that does some good: it makes both the parent and the child aware

that that behavior is not normal.

-Annie

> > >

> > > LOL thats a new one for me..the " reverse Heimlich " :-) She never went to

> > > jail because no one ever turned her in...plus she has a silver tongue when

> > > it comes to defending herself...she is a master at twisting things around

so

> > > she looks good or is the victim

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Jackie - What, you've never heard of the " Reverse Heimlich Maneuver " ?

Your

> > > story of " learning to swim " made me see red. I've taught a few little

kids

> > > how to overcome fear of swimming - you NEVER force a panic by holding

> > > somebody's head under water. What a monster she was. How on earth has

she

> > > managed to stay out of jail? Jeeeezus.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah...I guess Im still a little scared of confronting a person like that. My

armor for strangers just isnt that thick. Im never sure if they're just PD or

truly psychopathic. I mean...I do it with GranNada cause I know her...like

since I was five (so...not my actual mother or blood but the mother of my

BF's/sisters) when she is ridiculing or calling my nieces/nephews " little

assholes " . Then...I'll go to the mattresses, and have. I think its cause Im

not so afraid of her since while I call her mom as deference to the years we

have all spent together she isnt really my mom...she's just the crazy lady that

isnt very nice to my sisters and their children.

Funny enough...GranNada loves me like to the nth degrees (Im the all good????)

so no matter what I do or say she sorta defers to it. And...we've had

semi-rational conversations. She KNOWS she does this. She KNOWS she releases

anger on the wrong people. She just can't seem to stop. I finally told her

that she needs to put herself away and take a moment to herself when she starts

feeling " out of balance " as she calls it. And she does...just not always in

time.

> > > >

> > > > LOL thats a new one for me..the " reverse Heimlich " :-) She never went

to

> > > > jail because no one ever turned her in...plus she has a silver tongue

when

> > > > it comes to defending herself...she is a master at twisting things

around so

> > > > she looks good or is the victim

> > > >

> > > > Jackie

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Jackie - What, you've never heard of the " Reverse Heimlich Maneuver " ?

Your

> > > > story of " learning to swim " made me see red. I've taught a few little

kids

> > > > how to overcome fear of swimming - you NEVER force a panic by holding

> > > > somebody's head under water. What a monster she was. How on earth has

she

> > > > managed to stay out of jail? Jeeeezus.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That's wonderful, that you have the courage to stand up to your " grandnada " and

call her out on her bad behavior toward your nieces/nephews! You are doing a

great deal of good for them, letting them know that its not OK for grandnada to

talk to them like that.

You are making a big difference in their lives, and that is important and

meaningful.

What I've discovered is that a lot of the nadas who rage and scream at their

child in public are actually bullies and therefor cowards. They feel safe

abusing their child, but if another adult confronts them about it it rattles

them, or at least diverts their attention for a moment.

I don't have the opportunity to advocate for relative's children because (A) I

live far away from all my relatives and ( they're all nice, normal, sane

people. But I think its wonderful that you stand up for your nieces and

nephews, really great!

-Annie

> > > > >

> > > > > LOL thats a new one for me..the " reverse Heimlich " :-) She never went

to

> > > > > jail because no one ever turned her in...plus she has a silver tongue

when

> > > > > it comes to defending herself...she is a master at twisting things

around so

> > > > > she looks good or is the victim

> > > > >

> > > > > Jackie

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Jackie - What, you've never heard of the " Reverse Heimlich Maneuver " ?

Your

> > > > > story of " learning to swim " made me see red. I've taught a few little

kids

> > > > > how to overcome fear of swimming - you NEVER force a panic by holding

> > > > > somebody's head under water. What a monster she was. How on earth

has she

> > > > > managed to stay out of jail? Jeeeezus.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

" You are making a big difference in their lives, and that is important and

meaningful. "

Thanks I'd like to think so

There are five total, and only three of them am I close to. There are three

sisters (aside from myself) and the one with the twins is dysfunctional married

to dysfunctional. I do what I can. I'm a six hour drive from them and see them

about six times a year for camping trips and holidays. Mostly...I play with

them. Its good for them and good for me. My one nephew is convinced Im a

" teenager " for it. They seem OK despite GN's influence. It was touch and go

for awhile (eldest niece was having sleeping problems at nine!!!!) but, we've

got GN back on meds (for now) and have initiated a more open flow of

communication with the kids so they have some idea of what is reality...and what

is just GN being crazy.

Oddly enough...ME going into therapy was huge for EVERYBODY. And only cause I

spoke openly about what was going on in my head which then translated to

questions of " Hmmm...maybe that's me and maybe that would be good for me too. "

Its truly amazing what just a little bit of honest (albeit sometimes difficult)

communication can do.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > LOL thats a new one for me..the " reverse Heimlich " :-) She never

went to

> > > > > > jail because no one ever turned her in...plus she has a silver

tongue when

> > > > > > it comes to defending herself...she is a master at twisting things

around so

> > > > > > she looks good or is the victim

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jackie

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jackie - What, you've never heard of the " Reverse Heimlich

Maneuver " ? Your

> > > > > > story of " learning to swim " made me see red. I've taught a few

little kids

> > > > > > how to overcome fear of swimming - you NEVER force a panic by

holding

> > > > > > somebody's head under water. What a monster she was. How on earth

has she

> > > > > > managed to stay out of jail? Jeeeezus.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

(((((Justi)))))

Its more than sick, its criminal assault for a mother to batter her child, punch

the child with her fists and kick her. Your nada should have been arrested.

Then to turn it around and completely neglect you to punish you further because

you said you hated being beaten? Holy crap! And then your fada forced you to

apologize to your nada for all that? You poor kid. Both your nada and fada

were clearly way too disturbed and dangerous to have been allowed to raise you.

I think you are right and physical distance will be an excellent boundary

between you and your dysfunctional foo (family of origin) . Good luck on

starting your new life, and good luck with becoming emotionally detached from

your nada so that she can't hurt you any more.

-Annie

>

> >

> >

> > When I was about 5, I was mad at my nada for something (I don't remember

> > what) and I told her I hated her. This is a very normal thing for a kid to

> > do. She slapped me across the face and told me, " You do NOT hate your

> > MOTHER. "

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

thats a great response ! I know my nada would just deny it all, since

that's what's she's been doing all along

Jackie

I got this one, too. I told her that child abuse is never the " best you

could do. "

[Guest guest]

Justi, You were a very brave child and very strong. I think you are still those

things today! Thank you for sharing.

Sincerely,

[Guest guest]

Wow, that's my nada too... totally the perfect mother in front of

everyone else.

She's remarried and has 3 step children. We're all grown, all around

the same age. She NEVER acts like that in front of them. But, boy oh

boy, if they only knew the crap she has said about them to me behind

their backs. (I'd never tell them because it's not my place, and

frankly, she'd just say I was lying anyway!)

When my oldest step sister was pregnant with her first daughter, I was

at nada's visiting. She looks at me all huffy & puffy and says in a

very snotty tone of voice " Did you hear that stepsis is pregnant? " I

said " Oh? Really! Wow, that's great! They must be really excited. "

She scoughed and said, " Well, those are HIS grandchildren, not mine "

(His meaning my step dad's). But no one else ever sees that side.

Not even stepdad. Ha, he'd probably disown her if he knew that's how

she thought about his kids. (and trust me, there's so much more that

I've heard from nada about his " no good " children.) But, she's

perfect in front of his kids and in front of her grandkids. I

honestly wonder what her real feelings are about the grandkids... She

has photos of them in her office at work, but I can't help but wonder

if that's all just for show? But I sincerly hope she does love them

and never does to them the things she's done to me.

But yes, she can turn it on or off any time. All the easier for her

to smear my name to them now that I'm leaving and 'without even

calling her'... well, when my stepdad's mom died she didn't even

bother to call & tell me. Then, when stepsis's father-in-law died...

she did it again! Didn't even bother to tell me and played it off

like, all cute like a little kid " oops, I forgot " .

Really makes me wonder what kind of lies she's fed them all about me.

Did she tell them that " Justi just didn't care enough to come to the

funeal " . I'm sure they're all captivated by her charm, but what's

going to happen when the black sheep isn't around to abuse anymore?

This might sound terrible, but I almost wish I could be a fly on the

wall & see just what's going to happen. All I can hope is that if she

does snap, it'll be the last time and she'll get some help. I just

can't be the one to try & help her get that help anymore. Maybe if

someone who's not me says it to her, she'll finally do it.

Justi

>

>

> I totally agree !! My nada can turn it on and off when she wants to...she's

> always so nice to her friends and outsiders, she NEVER treats outsiders like

> she treats fada and me and my siblings. I have no sympathy for my

> nada..she chooses to be nasty to me, even when I point out what I don't like

> her doing, she does it any way...so obviously she doesn't care about me, and

> wants to abuse me...

>

> Jackie

>

> This is why I believe that BPDs do have a choice on how they act. Yes, they

> are sick-minded people and have no empathy, but they *know* how to play the

> game. They can turn it " on " or " off " whenever they want. This, to me, is

> clear cut proof that choosing to act on their sick intentions is their

> *choice.* I have no sympathy for BPDs. They are just master manipulators

> who hurt chosen people.

>

> It's sick.

>

>

<div><br></div>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I replied premptively before reading responces to my earlier post.

Thank you for the support & kind words. And you are right, looking

back at it now it certainly was child abuse, but hell, I was 7 or 8 at

the time and I didn't know any better. And I honestly don't remember

if stepdad#2 was even home when she did this to me (She's on stepdad#3

now). It's quite possible that he wasn't because he worked late a

lot, so she probably told him that I said " I hate you " because she

simply scolded me. As many of you have said about your nadas...

mine's also good at playing the victim.

So many things becoming so much clearer now. Things were all ready

becoming more clear because I did seek help for myself. But even

after years of therapy, I never once thought in my mind that she was

the one who was sick. Once I had that lightbulb moment, I started

looking for groups like this.

But thanks again. I do feel strong. The saying is " what doesn't kill

you makes you stronger " , right? Well, she didn't kill me (thank God)!

I definetly think I'm a stronger person for living through all this

garbage and managing to get some help for myself.

Justi

> Wow, that's my nada too... totally the perfect mother in front of

> everyone else.

>

> She's remarried and has 3 step children.  We're all grown, all around

> the same age.  She NEVER acts like that in front of them.  But, boy oh

> boy, if they only knew the crap she has said about them to me behind

> their backs.  (I'd never tell them because it's not my place, and

> frankly, she'd just say I was lying anyway!)

>

> When my oldest step sister was pregnant with her first daughter, I was

> at nada's visiting.  She looks at me all huffy & puffy and says in a

> very snotty tone of voice " Did you hear that stepsis is pregnant? "  I

> said " Oh? Really! Wow, that's great! They must be really excited. "

> She scoughed and said, " Well, those are HIS grandchildren, not mine "

> (His meaning my step dad's).  But no one else ever sees that side.

> Not even stepdad.  Ha, he'd probably disown her if he knew that's how

> she thought about his kids.  (and trust me, there's so much more that

> I've heard from nada about his " no good " children.)  But, she's

> perfect in front of his kids and in front of her grandkids.  I

> honestly wonder what her real feelings are about the grandkids... She

> has photos of them in her office at work, but I can't help but wonder

> if that's all just for show?  But I sincerly hope she does love them

> and never does to them the things she's done to me.

>

> But yes, she can turn it on or off any time.  All the easier for her

> to smear my name to them now that I'm leaving and 'without even

> calling her'... well, when my stepdad's mom died she didn't even

> bother to call & tell me.  Then, when stepsis's father-in-law died...

> she did it again! Didn't even bother to tell me and played it off

> like, all cute like a little kid " oops, I forgot " .

>

> Really makes me wonder what kind of lies she's fed them all about me.

> Did she tell them that " Justi just didn't care enough to come to the

> funeal " .  I'm sure they're all captivated by her charm, but what's

> going to happen when the black sheep isn't around to abuse anymore?

>

> This might sound terrible, but I almost wish I could be a fly on the

> wall & see just what's going to happen.  All I can hope is that if she

> does snap, it'll be the last time and she'll get some help.  I just

> can't be the one to try & help her get that help anymore.  Maybe if

> someone who's not me says it to her, she'll finally do it.

>

> Justi

>

>

>>

>>

>> I totally agree !! My nada can turn it on and off when she wants to...she's

>> always so nice to her friends and outsiders, she NEVER treats outsiders like

>> she treats fada and me and my siblings. I have no sympathy for my

>> nada..she chooses to be nasty to me, even when I point out what I don't like

>> her doing, she does it any way...so obviously she doesn't care about me, and

>> wants to abuse me...

>>

>> Jackie

>>

>> This is why I believe that BPDs do have a choice on how they act. Yes, they

>> are sick-minded people and have no empathy, but they *know* how to play the

>> game. They can turn it " on " or " off " whenever they want. This, to me, is

>> clear cut proof that choosing to act on their sick intentions is their

>> *choice.* I have no sympathy for BPDs. They are just master manipulators

>> who hurt chosen people.

>>

>> It's sick.

>>

>>

>

> <div><br></div>

>

<div><br></div>

[Guest guest]

This sparked a memory for me...

When my cousin, Alana, got married, it was a shotgun wedding and she was 8

months pregnant. However, I was happy for them and thrilled they were going to

be parents. Her parents, my aunt and uncle, were both married before and Alana

is my aunt's daughter from a previous marriage. However, her dad died in a car

accident when she was a little girl so my uncle is the only father figure she

has ever known. When my nada and I went to speak to my uncle and congratulate

him, he was beeming! The first thing he said was " I can't believe I'm going to

be a grandpa! " Of course, my 'wonderful' nada replied, " Well, not really because

she really isn't YOUR daughter! " My uncle was super mad and didn't speak to my

nada for years after that.

There definitely a piece of compassion missing from my BP nada. She never

comforted me when I cried, or tried to make everything better. She would just

say " Get over it. " When my father in law tragically died 2 years ago, all she

said was " I don't know why everyone is so sad. Its not like he is a God or

something! " But when she was around people, the sympathetic face comes out and I

think I even saw a few tears! Amazing to me!!

AJ

> >

> >

> > I totally agree !! My nada can turn it on and off when she wants to...she's

> > always so nice to her friends and outsiders, she NEVER treats outsiders like

> > she treats fada and me and my siblings. I have no sympathy for my

> > nada..she chooses to be nasty to me, even when I point out what I don't like

> > her doing, she does it any way...so obviously she doesn't care about me, and

> > wants to abuse me...

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> > This is why I believe that BPDs do have a choice on how they act. Yes, they

> > are sick-minded people and have no empathy, but they *know* how to play the

> > game. They can turn it " on " or " off " whenever they want. This, to me, is

> > clear cut proof that choosing to act on their sick intentions is their

> > *choice.* I have no sympathy for BPDs. They are just master manipulators

> > who hurt chosen people.

> >

> > It's sick.

> >

> >

>

> <div><br></div>

>

[Guest guest]

that is so cool that your divorce isn't a horrible, drawn-out ordeal.

and your mom is OFFENDED BY THIS?!?! that is insane.

bink

>

> >

> >

> > When I was about 5, I was mad at my nada for something (I don't remember

> > what) and I told her I hated her. This is a very normal thing for a kid to

> > do. She slapped me across the face and told me, " You do NOT hate your

> > MOTHER. "

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, my nada doesn't have 'the balls' (pardon the expression) to say

things like that in front of most other people. She usally pulls me

aside & will make her snarky remarks about others. I guess to

maintain her perfect appearance.

But yes, she seems offended that my ex (ok, soon to be ex husband, but

that's too much to type every time lol) and I are getting along fine.

I still am living in the house, just staying in the office on an air

mattress (it's fine with me) until I move in a little over a week.

When I told her we were getting divorced, oh man, the flood gates of

hell opened up wide. She berated me, called me everything but a child

of God. And then said " hit below the belt & take him for everything

he's got " . heh.

But, it shouldn't surprise me. Even though I'm finally really just

seeing it, everything's always been about nada. So of course, her

daughter's divorce is all about her too.

Funny that she can't seem to find the time to pick up the phone & see

how I'm doing. But it's quite ok, really. I'm tired of that knot in

my stomach every time she tries to get in touch with me.

But then again, why would she call? She never calls. Then when I do

call her, I get accused of never calling unless there's something bad

going on or unless I " want something " . *shakes head*. Well last I

checked, I'm not the only person in the world with a phone that dials

out!

I really can't wait to move next week.

Justi

>

>

> that is so cool that your divorce isn't a horrible, drawn-out ordeal.

>

> and your mom is OFFENDED BY THIS?!?! that is insane.

> bink

>

>

>>

>> >

>> >

>> > When I was about 5, I was mad at my nada for something (I don't remember

>> > what) and I told her I hated her. This is a very normal thing for a kid

>> > to

>> > do. She slapped me across the face and told me, " You do NOT hate your

>> > MOTHER. "

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Wow, my nada doesn't have 'the balls' (pardon the expression) to say

things like that in front of most other people. She usally pulls me

aside & will make her snarky remarks about others. I guess to

maintain her perfect appearance.

But yes, she seems offended that my ex (ok, soon to be ex husband, but

that's too much to type every time lol) and I are getting along fine.

I still am living in the house, just staying in the office on an air

mattress (it's fine with me) until I move in a little over a week.

When I told her we were getting divorced, oh man, the flood gates of

hell opened up wide. She berated me, called me everything but a child

of God. And then said " hit below the belt & take him for everything

he's got " . heh.

But, it shouldn't surprise me. Even though I'm finally really just

seeing it, everything's always been about nada. So of course, her

daughter's divorce is all about her too.

Funny that she can't seem to find the time to pick up the phone & see

how I'm doing. But it's quite ok, really. I'm tired of that knot in

my stomach every time she tries to get in touch with me.

But then again, why would she call? She never calls. Then when I do

call her, I get accused of never calling unless there's something bad

going on or unless I " want something " . *shakes head*. Well last I

checked, I'm not the only person in the world with a phone that dials

out!

I really can't wait to move next week.

Justi

>

>

> that is so cool that your divorce isn't a horrible, drawn-out ordeal.

>

> and your mom is OFFENDED BY THIS?!?! that is insane.

> bink

>

>

>>

>> >

>> >

>> > When I was about 5, I was mad at my nada for something (I don't remember

>> > what) and I told her I hated her. This is a very normal thing for a kid

>> > to

>> > do. She slapped me across the face and told me, " You do NOT hate your

>> > MOTHER. "

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

My nada regularly uses the line " I did (or was doing or am doing ) the best

I could/can " . It seems to be both manipulative - to try to get the response

of " Oh no, you were a great mom " and it seems also in her own mind it

absolves her of all guilt in the matter - like it lets her off the hook and

everyone else should too because " she was doing the best she could " . Ohh,

please!

my

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 4:11 PM, bink1227 wrote:

>

>

> good god. " the best i could. " give me a break. that's the biggest cop-out i

> have ever heard. " i did the best i could! "

>

> um...NO YOU DIDN'T. pure and simple. it's a lie.

>

> bink

>

>

>

> >

> > my nada always said she did the best she could. I once told her she just

> > took the easy way out...I got " that look " and she didn't speak to me for

> the

> > rest of the day and part of the next...since it was only a few years ago

> > this happened, I didn't care. my nada was smart enough to know better

> than

> > to admit anything to us

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> > Yes, my Sister and I both remember being approached now and then by a

> teary

> > nada saying, " I know I wasn't a good mother to you sometimes, but, I

> tried

> > my best... " but God help us if we fell for that ploy and said something

> > like, " Um... that's right, mom, you were scary and you hurt us a lot. "

> >

> > That would have triggered a tsunami-level rage.

> >

> > We knew that we were supposed to reply, " Oh, no, mom. You were just the

> > greatest mom ever. " It was a kind of test, I think. I think my nada felt

> > safe in admitting her feelings of guilt from time to time, because we

> never

> > called her on it. We had been trained to reassure her that she was just

> > fine, and we were just fine, and everything was fine.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mine wouldn't let me go to therapy because, " You'll make me look like

a bad mother " .

I have sometimes gotten " I did the best I could " , but usually it's

followed with " you always had a roof over your head, clothes on your

back & food in your stomach "

Like that's all a child needs. Please.

Justi

> My nada regularly uses the line " I did (or was doing or am doing ) the best

> I could/can " . It seems to be both manipulative - to try to get the response

> of " Oh no, you were a great mom "  and it seems also in her own mind it

> absolves her of all guilt in the matter  - like it lets her off the hook and

> everyone else should too because " she was doing the best she could " . Ohh,

> please!

>

> my

>

> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 4:11 PM, bink1227

wrote:

>

>>

>>

>> good god. " the best i could. " give me a break. that's the biggest cop-out i

>> have ever heard. " i did the best i could! "

>>

>> um...NO YOU DIDN'T. pure and simple. it's a lie.

>>

>> bink

>>

>>

>>

>> >

>> > my nada always said she did the best she could. I once told her she just

>> > took the easy way out...I got " that look " and she didn't speak to me for

>> the

>> > rest of the day and part of the next...since it was only a few years ago

>> > this happened, I didn't care. my nada was smart enough to know better

>> than

>> > to admit anything to us

>> >

>> > Jackie

>> >

>> >

>> > Yes, my Sister and I both remember being approached now and then by a

>> teary

>> > nada saying, " I know I wasn't a good mother to you sometimes, but, I

>> tried

>> > my best... " but God help us if we fell for that ploy and said something

>> > like, " Um... that's right, mom, you were scary and you hurt us a lot. "

>> >

>> > That would have triggered a tsunami-level rage.

>> >

>> > We knew that we were supposed to reply, " Oh, no, mom. You were just the

>> > greatest mom ever. " It was a kind of test, I think. I think my nada felt

>> > safe in admitting her feelings of guilt from time to time, because we

>> never

>> > called her on it. We had been trained to reassure her that she was just

>> > fine, and we were just fine, and everything was fine.

>> >

>> > -Annie

>> >

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>