Re: the mirror

[Guest guest]

Abby, I too suffer with weight problems related to my nada. Also I cannot tell

you how many successful diet attempts have met their end after I talk to her.

Suddenly it's as if my willpower evaporates or my desire to take care of myself

is gone. Kind of a feeling of " well my whole life is f***ed so why not take

comfort in food " . Yet, being overweight is part of what makes life hard.

Another angle on this I wanted to share with you was an interview I read

yesterday from the author of " Ending Overeating " a book coming out soon. He

said they have proof now that foods high in fat/sugar/salt literally highjack

the brain and that some people are also more vulnerable to this affect than

others. So it's not an even playing field, it is a huge issue of willpower

involving brain chemistry. Now add in the stress and emotional pain from

dealing with a nada - how much energy do we then have leftover to fight the food

brain highjacking? In my case not much! I've often thought it might be that

I'm eating/stuffing my feelings but the idea that it takes real effort to fight

to make the right food choices and the amount of energy for that effort is

sapped in dealing with nada feels more true for me.

I hear you about those moments in the mirror too - I want to change that. Don't

we deserve to have relaxed happy faces one day? It's never too late to make

wrinkles that we prefer

>

> I happened to glance at a mirror today as I was walking past and I was struck

by what looked back at me. I saw nada. Not that I look anything like her

physically, but the expression on my face was hers. When I took a closer look I

realized I have no idea who I am. For so many years I have been what she wanted

to me to be. My thoughts, my beliefs, my interests were all hers. I did as she

commanded. Answered her every whim and wish. Gave her all I had and she took

more. The line between us had been blurred my whole life. There was a point when

I didn't know where she ended and I began. I have moved beyond that and I know I

am not her. I just don't know who I am yet.

>

> Since I started on this journey I have done a lot of work to move through the

emotional pain. Each day brings new understanding and insight. At first, my

thoughts were consumed with her. What she said, what she did, my childhood, my

adulthood all as it related to her. The tapes played non-stop in my head - first

thing in the morning and last thing at night. She was all I thought about. I

seem to have moved beyond that and the focus is now shifted to me.

>

> I'm 38 years old and I'm trying to figure out who I am. I'm trying to separate

myself completely from her and create an identity. I am no longer comfortable

with the old me and not yet sure who the new me is. I know I will never allow

nada the access to me that she once had. That child/girl/woman has quietly

slipped into the background.

>

> One of the things that struck me when I saw my reflection was how tired and

sad I looked. I don't feel that way, but it shows on my face. My face showed a

sadness and a strain that really took me aback. It also jarred me because

suddenly I saw all the pictures of me as a child, teenager, adult and even my

wedding day. The same sad, strained face appears in every picture. There are no

pictures of me smiling. It is a ghost of a person staring back at the camera.

>

> Charlie's reply to my post about nada's phone call really got me thinking

about a lot of things. Especially the idea that I inflict pain on myself and

hurt myself because that is what nada wants, but will not do herself, so I have

done it for her. This brought me back to a therapy session when the therapist

said " You have to stop hurting yourself " . I never knew what she meant. Now I'm

beginning to understand.

>

> To add to the list of other things about myself, I am also overweight and have

been since I was a child (I was 200 lbs as a ten year old, nobody cared. I was a

very lonely child. Being an only child made it worse.) I've gained and lost some

weight throughout my life, but for the most part, I've always been overweight

and have never been at a healthy weight. This has hurt me in so many ways. The

weight has kept me from so many things. I have isolated myself from the world

and buffered myself from hurt through it. With each bite I stuffed down the

words and emotions I was not allowed to feel and express. I swallowed my

emotions, my anger, my sadness, my pain and my loneliness for years.

>

> I've been really struggling and trying to get to the root cause of my

overeating. I have been able to lose about 30 lbs over the past year, but was

derailed when nada came for a visit a few months ago and have not been able to

get back on track. She had noticed that I lost weight (I could tell by " the

look " ) and though she never said a word and did not acknowledge my success, the

message was loud and clear - nada was not happy with it. Since her visit, I

haven't been able to get back on track and my anxiety is back. She often makes

comments about me not being home when she calls because I'm at the gym. " I never

know when to call anymore or when you'll be home. You're never there when I

call. You're always exercising " Or, " how is your diet going? I wish I could lose

weight. (She doesn't need to really, maybe 30 lbs) Do you watch the biggest

loser? They work so hard and lose so much weight so fast. They must be under

medical supervision....That show is degrading to fat people. " On and on it goes.

I never respond, but I feel her bearing down on me with each comment, slowly

whittling away at my efforts.

>

> " The weight will come off when you stop hurting yourself. " I've been trying to

understand this statement for over a year and now I am beginning to get it.

Through my weight. Through my sending out the signals " stay away or go ahead,

use me " , I have been hurting myself. Through self-doubt and self-hatred I have

been hurting myself. Through my inability to trust others and trust myself I

have been hurting myself. Through the difficulty I have loving and being loved,

I have been hurting myself. By allowing her to abuse me, I have been hurting

myself. I have been doing all of this to me and I have done it my whole life -

unknowingly. I have done nada's bidding. I can't do it anymore. I am starting to

understand why she never did anything to help me lose weight as a child or as a

teenager. My weight has served her very well.

>

> Abby

>

[Guest guest]

same here..when we had a bad day at school, nada would give us a glass of

milk and cookies, or cake or...and make us sit in the kitchen, alone, and

eat them. So food became our friend. Food was there to soothe us ( NOT

nada) food was there to listen to us ( NOT nada) and food made us feel

better ( NOT nada)

Jackie

Abby, I too suffer with weight problems related to my nada. Also I cannot

tell you how many successful diet attempts have met their end after I talk

to her. Suddenly it's as if my willpower evaporates or my desire to take

care of myself is gone. Kind of a feeling of " well my whole life is f***ed

so why not take comfort in food " . Yet, being overweight is part of what

makes life hard.

[Guest guest]

I think you are right, , and I wish I could make that complete emotional

break, but I'm just not there yet. I envy you, actually.

Yet, I do think I will get there eventually.

I feel guilty, I suppose, because I haven't been the perfect daughter. I admit

it. The things my nada accuses me of are true.

I haven't been a particularly good daughter, let alone a perfect one.

But I can achieve some emotional objectivity when I observe nada being hateful

to my Sister, who has tried *so* hard to please nada to no avail. Nothing

Sister does is ever enough, or good enough, and nada has been particularly cruel

and hateful to Sister regarding her son.

I can get angry about that, and I can stand up to nada about that,

and cut off my feelings for her about that because its so obvious

that nada is dead wrong and just being malicious and hateful.

Again, its always about pain.

Nada is pain. I want the pain to stop.

-Annie

> >

> > thats like last fall, when my fada called to tell my nada had a heart attack

> > and was in the hospital...I really didn't care. I don't want anyone to be

> > in pain/sick, but since she was my mother, I should have felt

> > something... nope, nothing...and I didn't even feel guilty about it

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> > When she died I experienced no sense of loss. ly, there was nothing

> > left to mourn.

> >

> > It made me sad that I didn't care that she was dead. But that too went away

> > in a few minutes.

> >

> > All the best,

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kinda funny. Nada has done that to me too. One time she announced loudly in her

queen voice, " I know I wasn't the best mother in the world, but I did the best I

could! " Another time, she said in the waif voice " I wasn't that bad of a mother

to you..was I? "

Is all this in the " 101 Ways to Drive your daughter nuts " BP handbook?

Interestingly, both statements lead me to believe she knows what she's done. She

doesn't care, but she knows.

A-Doo

> >

> > wow, your nada actually admitted doing this ?? mine denies it !! I swear,

> > my nada remembers things SO differently than the rest of us...she remembers

> > herself as the perfect mother, it's just US who are rotten people and make

> > her look bad !! She think sshe was there for us any time, and where and was

> > June Cleaver !!

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> > Yes, food as a tool of manipulation or a substitute for emotional care and

> > closeness messes up a kid's head in more than one way. My nada would look

> > at me with disgust when I was too heavy (I was never the right weight as far

> > as nada was concerned: either too skinny as a child or too fat as a

> > teen/adult) and say, " Well, I guess I shouldn't have used cookies to shut

> > you up when you were crying. " So I came to associate food with relief from

> > pain after being raged at.

> >

> > Nada was in effect training me to be a masochist: physical abuse =

> > pleasurable reward.

> >

> > Nada's completely warped and horrific parenting caused damage on many, many

> > levels of my psyche. And it was so much more bewildering because she would

> > be nice to me sometimes, and she was always nice to me in front of other

> > adults. I think I'm pretty lucky to be functioning as well as I am, and not

> > dead, frankly.

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

good god. " the best i could. " give me a break. that's the biggest cop-out i

have ever heard. " i did the best i could! "

um...NO YOU DIDN'T. pure and simple. it's a lie.

bink

>

> my nada always said she did the best she could. I once told her she just

> took the easy way out...I got " that look " and she didn't speak to me for the

> rest of the day and part of the next...since it was only a few years ago

> this happened, I didn't care. my nada was smart enough to know better than

> to admit anything to us

>

> Jackie

>

>

> Yes, my Sister and I both remember being approached now and then by a teary

> nada saying, " I know I wasn't a good mother to you sometimes, but, I tried

> my best... " but God help us if we fell for that ploy and said something

> like, " Um... that's right, mom, you were scary and you hurt us a lot. "

>

> That would have triggered a tsunami-level rage.

>

> We knew that we were supposed to reply, " Oh, no, mom. You were just the

> greatest mom ever. " It was a kind of test, I think. I think my nada felt

> safe in admitting her feelings of guilt from time to time, because we never

> called her on it. We had been trained to reassure her that she was just

> fine, and we were just fine, and everything was fine.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

With my nada, I believe its due to her false belief that nothing she can

possibly do to us will drive us away permanently. She truly believes that

Sister and I *have to* love her no matter what. Its our filial obligation, I

suppose. " Honor thy father and thy mother " and all that.

And yes, I agree: her admission means that nada does remember what she did and

knows that it was very bad and inappropriate parenting.

Which is why both Sister and I were poleaxed with astonishment when nada

recently declared that now she does *not* remember ever abusing us in any way,

and not only that, but at the same time nada announced that our dad beat *her,*

which is untrue to the point of absurdity. We were speechless, Sister and I.

(We learned that particular detail from a confidante of nada's, not from nada

directly.)

So, it all just goes to show that our nada will adroitly cherry-pick and/or

re-write history to suit her purposes, whenever and however she needs to. Its

all about making nada the poor victim.

Sorry, but I seem to be drifting towards " bpd=evil " sentiments again.

Their need to hurt, abase and degrade others, their need to control others'

bodies and souls, their need to cast themselves as victims while dumping

truckloads of abuse on their helpless children and then feeling *nothing* about

the harm they've done...

If that's not evil, what is?

-Annie

> > >

> > > wow, your nada actually admitted doing this ?? mine denies it !! I swear,

> > > my nada remembers things SO differently than the rest of us...she

remembers

> > > herself as the perfect mother, it's just US who are rotten people and make

> > > her look bad !! She think sshe was there for us any time, and where and

was

> > > June Cleaver !!

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> > > Yes, food as a tool of manipulation or a substitute for emotional care and

> > > closeness messes up a kid's head in more than one way. My nada would look

> > > at me with disgust when I was too heavy (I was never the right weight as

far

> > > as nada was concerned: either too skinny as a child or too fat as a

> > > teen/adult) and say, " Well, I guess I shouldn't have used cookies to shut

> > > you up when you were crying. " So I came to associate food with relief

from

> > > pain after being raged at.

> > >

> > > Nada was in effect training me to be a masochist: physical abuse =

> > > pleasurable reward.

> > >

> > > Nada's completely warped and horrific parenting caused damage on many,

many

> > > levels of my psyche. And it was so much more bewildering because she

would

> > > be nice to me sometimes, and she was always nice to me in front of other

> > > adults. I think I'm pretty lucky to be functioning as well as I am, and

not

> > > dead, frankly.

> > >

> > > -Annie

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

OH...I can so relate to this thread. The admissions of guilt wrapped up in a

thick protective blanket of " I did the best I could " crap which is inevitably

followed by complete denial (in the case of my fada admission/denial could occur

in the same conversation). And I believe he really did think that because he

produced the sperm that makes up 1/2 of my genetic code he has some sort of

divine right to do whatever he wants to me and Im just supposed to take it. How

many times growing up did you hear something to the equivalent of " Im the only

mother/father you're ever going to have. " For my part...it was many times.

And I think it is evil. Pure unadulterated evil. But, I wonder if they realize

it...really. From what I've read the BPD mind tricks are so intense and

intricate, and quite frankly from a biologists perspective fascinating, that

they can justify ANYTHING and really truly believe it, not just " OH...I hope

noone finds out or catches me in the lie " because to them it isnt a lie.

Like...they can turn an evil act into something they had to do...didnt have a

choice and by god...if someone ever even asked them how they could do that the

explanation is elementary and if you dont get it then you must be crazy or

something. Unless...you're not and and that's why you don't get it. I mean, I

see on this board time and again " how could someone do something like that to a

child " and I've asked myself this question many times over with regards to both

myself and the abuse I witnessed happening to my brother and I'd just like to

say that the conclusion I've come to is that to understand it would to be crazy

yourself.

Honesly...how can you understand crazy unless you are crazy?????

> > > >

> > > > wow, your nada actually admitted doing this ?? mine denies it !! I

swear,

> > > > my nada remembers things SO differently than the rest of us...she

remembers

> > > > herself as the perfect mother, it's just US who are rotten people and

make

> > > > her look bad !! She think sshe was there for us any time, and where and

was

> > > > June Cleaver !!

> > > >

> > > > Jackie

> > > >

> > > > Yes, food as a tool of manipulation or a substitute for emotional care

and

> > > > closeness messes up a kid's head in more than one way. My nada would

look

> > > > at me with disgust when I was too heavy (I was never the right weight as

far

> > > > as nada was concerned: either too skinny as a child or too fat as a

> > > > teen/adult) and say, " Well, I guess I shouldn't have used cookies to

shut

> > > > you up when you were crying. " So I came to associate food with relief

from

> > > > pain after being raged at.

> > > >

> > > > Nada was in effect training me to be a masochist: physical abuse =

> > > > pleasurable reward.

> > > >

> > > > Nada's completely warped and horrific parenting caused damage on many,

many

> > > > levels of my psyche. And it was so much more bewildering because she

would

> > > > be nice to me sometimes, and she was always nice to me in front of other

> > > > adults. I think I'm pretty lucky to be functioning as well as I am, and

not

> > > > dead, frankly.

> > > >

> > > > -Annie

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

you're more compassionate then I am in this respect. When my nada dies, I

will not mourn anything...it will be just like a total stranger died...how

unfortunate for those close to her, but that's not me. I will not go to the

service either. I don't think I could stand listening to eulogies praising

her and saying was a warm generous loving person she was...and how she was

loved by all...

Jackie

Its so sad and tragic that they almost literally stomp our hearts into the

ground and destroy even the tiniest vestiges of love, or the hope of love,

that we cling to. When my nada dies, I will mourn for the illusion of the

good mother that she gave me sometimes; I will mourn for the pitiful, false

thing that I interpreted as a loving parent. I will mourn for the final

passing away of my dream for a real mother.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

the next time my nada says this..I'm going to tell her " no you didn't, you

just took the easiest way you could, at the determent of your kids " of

course my nada doesn't say she knows she wasn't the best mother...all she

ever says was she did the best she could...by slapping us around, insulting

us and belittling us ??

Jackie

Kinda funny. Nada has done that to me too. One time she announced loudly in

her queen voice, " I know I wasn't the best mother in the world, but I did

the best I could! "

[Guest guest]

Abby,

I appreciated your post and can relate to a lot of it.

Your nada manages to find a way to passive-aggressively sabotage your physical

health.  My mom managed to sabotage nearly all of my personal interests as a

child.  Whatever I was doing, she always seemed to think I should be doing

something else.  If I was quietly reading, then I should go outside and play. 

When I started writing stories as a teenager, if she was home, she constantly

came in to interrupt from some stupid reason like did I take out the trash? 

(Well, does it look like the trash has been emptied?)  She dug out rejected

drafts from the trash, read them and then raged at me for them (but they were in

the trash--clearly I did not like them either...)  She had nothing against

reading and writing.  In fact, as a small child, we went to the library every

week and she always read to us before bed.  She just didn't like seeing me happy

doing something I enjoyed when she was so miserable.

Can you just tell her you won't discuss your weight or your diet with her and

you won't tolerate comments about weight--yours or anyone else's?  I'm sure she

won't like it, but all of those subtle stabs at your self-esteem really do have

an effect.

I think there's a simple reason you learned to hurt yourself.  Hurting yourself

is a virtue in her world.  You were rewarded for it.  You were punished when you

didn't, when you dared to be happy and to do what felt good and what you liked. 

My mother believed it was a virtue as well--not just for us, but for

herself--and that was a part of what she told us through words and actions every

single day I lived at home with her.

It's not a virtue.

Best,

Ashana

Explore your hobbies and interests. Go to

http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/

[Guest guest]

i know !! it just turnes my skin when she says that !! she took the easy

way out, by spalling us around when she was mad..rather than at maturly,

control herself, and NOT hit us...

Jackie

good god. " the best i could. " give me a break. that's the biggest cop-out

i have ever heard. " i did the best i could! "

um...NO YOU DIDN'T. pure and simple. it's a lie.

bink

[Guest guest]

same with my nada..she even told me once that I HAVE to love her !! of

course under my breath I said oh no I dont !!

Jackie

With my nada, I believe its due to her false belief that nothing she can

possibly do to us will drive us away permanently. She truly believes that

Sister and I *have to* love her no matter what. Its our filial obligation, I

suppose. " Honor thy father and thy mother " and all that.

[Guest guest]

oh, all the time !!

Jackie

> How many times growing up did you hear something to the equivalent of " Im

> the only mother/father you're ever going to have. " For my part...it was

> many times.

And I think it is evil. Pure unadulterated evil. But, I wonder if they

realize it...really. From what I've read the BPD mind tricks are so intense

and intricate, and quite frankly from a biologists perspective fascinating,

that they can justify ANYTHING and really truly believe it, not just " OH...I

hope noone finds out or catches me in the lie " because to them it isnt a

lie. Like...they can turn an evil act into something they had to do...didnt

have a choice and by god...if someone ever even asked them how they could do

that the explanation is elementary and if you dont get it then you must be

crazy or something. Unless...you're not and and that's why you don't get

it. I mean, I see on this board time and again " how could someone do

something like that to a child " and I've asked myself this question many

times over with regards to both myself and the abuse I witnessed happening

to my brother and I'd just like to say that the conclusion I've come to is

that to understand it would to be crazy yourself.

Honesly...how can you understand crazy unless you are crazy?????

[Guest guest]

I got this one, too. I told her that child abuse is never the " best you could

do. "

>

> the next time my nada says this..I'm going to tell her " no you didn't, you

> just took the easiest way you could, at the determent of your kids " of

> course my nada doesn't say she knows she wasn't the best mother...all she

> ever says was she did the best she could...by slapping us around, insulting

> us and belittling us ??

>

> Jackie

>

>

> Kinda funny. Nada has done that to me too. One time she announced loudly in

> her queen voice, " I know I wasn't the best mother in the world, but I did

> the best I could! "

>

[Guest guest]

When I was about 5, I was mad at my nada for something (I don't remember what)

and I told her I hated her. This is a very normal thing for a kid to do. She

slapped me across the face and told me, " You do NOT hate your MOTHER. "

I thought, " Um, hitting me isn't going to make me like you more. Maybe you

should be NICE to me. "

And really, this has continued into my late 30's. Whenever she feels I'm not

calling or seeing (loving) her enough, she responds with rage and gets my father

to call me and yell at me.

You can't FORCE someone to love you. You can only control and frighten them

enough to make them pretend they don't hate you.

-Deanna

>

> same with my nada..she even told me once that I HAVE to love her !! of

> course under my breath I said oh no I dont !!

>

> Jackie

>

>

> With my nada, I believe its due to her false belief that nothing she can

> possibly do to us will drive us away permanently. She truly believes that

> Sister and I *have to* love her no matter what. Its our filial obligation, I

> suppose. " Honor thy father and thy mother " and all that.

>

[Guest guest]

YES !! exactly !! I called the parents once a month since oct through

feb..for some reason it wasn't enough, and in march can The Call. fada told

me I was a terrible daughter, nada screamed " we want to hear from you

more!! " like THAT'S going to do it ?? now I wont even talk to them on the

phone...hm..lets look at this...the last 6 months they've yelled at me 3X

over the phone for heaven only knows why...and they wonder why I don't want

to speak with them ???

Jackie

When I was about 5, I was mad at my nada for something (I don't remember

what) and I told her I hated her. This is a very normal thing for a kid to

do. She slapped me across the face and told me, " You do NOT hate your

MOTHER. "

I thought, " Um, hitting me isn't going to make me like you more. Maybe you

should be NICE to me. "

And really, this has continued into my late 30's. Whenever she feels I'm

not calling or seeing (loving) her enough, she responds with rage and gets

my father to call me and yell at me.

You can't FORCE someone to love you. You can only control and frighten them

enough to make them pretend they don't hate you.

-Deanna

[Guest guest]

Oh god. My dad pulled that one too. " You HAVE to love me...Im your father. " I

had the same response, under my breath, " The hell I do. "

Respect. Respect was another one you HAD to have. Right...respect isn't

earned...its forcefully taken. NOT!

>

> same with my nada..she even told me once that I HAVE to love her !! of

> course under my breath I said oh no I dont !!

>

> Jackie

>

>

> With my nada, I believe its due to her false belief that nothing she can

> possibly do to us will drive us away permanently. She truly believes that

> Sister and I *have to* love her no matter what. Its our filial obligation, I

> suppose. " Honor thy father and thy mother " and all that.

>

[Guest guest]

it's amazing the " rights " they think they're owed by us, huh ?

Jackie

Oh god. My dad pulled that one too. " You HAVE to love me...Im your

father. " I had the same response, under my breath, " The hell I do. "

Respect. Respect was another one you HAD to have. Right...respect isn't

earned...its forcefully taken. NOT!

[Guest guest]

That behavior is a good example showing how pd individuals lack empathy and

think of other people (especially their children) as mere objects instead of as

fellow human beings with feelings. You are nada's property, her possession, not

a separate person with rights.

You are her wind up toy or her talking doll that isn't working properly, so you

have to be knocked around and shaken, and maybe you'll say the right thing

again.

Its so scary to think of a small child in the hands of someone who thinks like

that. We're all lucky to be alive.

-Annie

> >

> > same with my nada..she even told me once that I HAVE to love her !! of

> > course under my breath I said oh no I dont !!

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> > With my nada, I believe its due to her false belief that nothing she can

> > possibly do to us will drive us away permanently. She truly believes that

> > Sister and I *have to* love her no matter what. Its our filial obligation, I

> > suppose. " Honor thy father and thy mother " and all that.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I can't count HOW many times she's shaken me...to " shake some sense into

you! " she's scream ..yeah, THAT worked...NOT ! It IS a wonder we survived

at all..and my nada even threatened to kill me several times, and tried

several

Jackie

That behavior is a good example showing how pd individuals lack empathy and

think of other people (especially their children) as mere objects instead of

as fellow human beings with feelings. You are nada's property, her

possession, not a separate person with rights.

You are her wind up toy or her talking doll that isn't working properly, so

you have to be knocked around and shaken, and maybe you'll say the right

thing again.

Its so scary to think of a small child in the hands of someone who thinks

like that. We're all lucky to be alive.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

You are right. You can't force someone to love you, nor do you have to love

someone just because you're related to the person.

> >

> > same with my nada..she even told me once that I HAVE to love her !! of

> > course under my breath I said oh no I dont !!

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> > With my nada, I believe its due to her false belief that nothing she can

> > possibly do to us will drive us away permanently. She truly believes that

> > Sister and I *have to* love her no matter what. Its our filial obligation, I

> > suppose. " Honor thy father and thy mother " and all that.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I also belong to a site for the adult children of narcissists, and the horror

stories over there make me just flabbergasted and sick.

They are the next level down the staircase to hell.

One woman's n-mom tried to smother her with a pillow when she was about 5 years

old. The child was cold and wanted to climb into bed with mommy. First the

n-mom became angry and pushed the child away harshly, then n-mom changed her

mind, sweet-talked the child into climbing back up in bed with n-mom, and then

nearly succeeded in killing her little child.

Sounds to me like your nada's emotional rheostat was set fairly high in the

sociopathic range of behaviors if she tried to kill you on more than one

occasion. That is so chilling. I'm so glad for you that you got lucky and

survived what was passing for " parenting " in your life.

-Annie

>

> I can't count HOW many times she's shaken me...to " shake some sense into

> you! " she's scream ..yeah, THAT worked...NOT ! It IS a wonder we survived

> at all..and my nada even threatened to kill me several times, and tried

> several

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> That behavior is a good example showing how pd individuals lack empathy and

> think of other people (especially their children) as mere objects instead of

> as fellow human beings with feelings. You are nada's property, her

> possession, not a separate person with rights.

>

> You are her wind up toy or her talking doll that isn't working properly, so

> you have to be knocked around and shaken, and maybe you'll say the right

> thing again.

>

> Its so scary to think of a small child in the hands of someone who thinks

> like that. We're all lucky to be alive.

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

When I was about seven years old I asked nada " how do you know if you love

someone? " I still remember the reaction vividly. She pulled back from me as if

she was bitten by a snake or something, her face contorted and the rage (didn't

know what that was then, but it sure was scary) ensued and she shrieked at me

" What do you MEAN how do you know if you love someone?...Don' you love me?! " She

then ran out of the room in hysterics. I could hear her going down the hall

wailing and screaming. I don't think I ever got an answer. Life was very

confusing for little ole me back then.

Abby

> >

> > same with my nada..she even told me once that I HAVE to love her !! of

> > course under my breath I said oh no I dont !!

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> > With my nada, I believe its due to her false belief that nothing she can

> > possibly do to us will drive us away permanently. She truly believes that

> > Sister and I *have to* love her no matter what. Its our filial obligation, I

> > suppose. " Honor thy father and thy mother " and all that.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I belong to a narcissists list too ! since my nada is that as well as

BPD..I remember vividly when she was trying to " teach " me how to swim in our

pool . She would hold me head under water...and when I'd struggle to come

up, she wouldn't let me. My sister pushed her away one time, and I came up

gasping and coughing...sister got beat and sent to her room..nada tried it

again..she shoved my head under the water, I wanted up and started

struggling..I ended up scratching her arms with my finger nails..then the

neighbor looked out his window and she let me up. I get beat and sent to my

room for hurting her. I HATE swimming to this day..I HATE water splashed in

my face...I get almost panicked by it

Jackie

I also belong to a site for the adult children of narcissists, and the

horror stories over there make me just flabbergasted and sick.

They are the next level down the staircase to hell.

One woman's n-mom tried to smother her with a pillow when she was about 5

years old. The child was cold and wanted to climb into bed with mommy.

First the n-mom became angry and pushed the child away harshly, then n-mom

changed her mind, sweet-talked the child into climbing back up in bed with

n-mom, and then nearly succeeded in killing her little child.

Sounds to me like your nada's emotional rheostat was set fairly high in the

sociopathic range of behaviors if she tried to kill you on more than one

occasion. That is so chilling. I'm so glad for you that you got lucky and

survived what was passing for " parenting " in your life.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

You poor little kid. Holy Freakin' Cow. How horrific for you, good Lord. Your

nada's behavior was more sociopathic, frankly, in my opinion, and she could very

well have succeeded in drowning you.

Thank God your sister and the neighbor were there, otherwise you might just be

an " accidental drowning " statistic.

You definitely should have been removed from your nada's " care, " she was too

disturbed to have been allowed to raise you and your sibs. Chilling. So

chilling.

-Annie

>

> I belong to a narcissists list too ! since my nada is that as well as

> BPD..I remember vividly when she was trying to " teach " me how to swim in our

> pool . She would hold me head under water...and when I'd struggle to come

> up, she wouldn't let me. My sister pushed her away one time, and I came up

> gasping and coughing...sister got beat and sent to her room..nada tried it

> again..she shoved my head under the water, I wanted up and started

> struggling..I ended up scratching her arms with my finger nails..then the

> neighbor looked out his window and she let me up. I get beat and sent to my

> room for hurting her. I HATE swimming to this day..I HATE water splashed in

> my face...I get almost panicked by it

>

> Jackie

>

>

> I also belong to a site for the adult children of narcissists, and the

> horror stories over there make me just flabbergasted and sick.

> They are the next level down the staircase to hell.

>

> One woman's n-mom tried to smother her with a pillow when she was about 5

> years old. The child was cold and wanted to climb into bed with mommy.

> First the n-mom became angry and pushed the child away harshly, then n-mom

> changed her mind, sweet-talked the child into climbing back up in bed with

> n-mom, and then nearly succeeded in killing her little child.

>

> Sounds to me like your nada's emotional rheostat was set fairly high in the

> sociopathic range of behaviors if she tried to kill you on more than one

> occasion. That is so chilling. I'm so glad for you that you got lucky and

> survived what was passing for " parenting " in your life.

>

> -Annie

>