Guest guest Posted February 19, 2001 Report Share Posted February 19, 2001 Yea, I'll bet that could be the case maybe because Troy Aikman (Dallas Cowboys, and my personal favorite team!) seemed to me to have metatarsus and not clubfoot. He was considered mild and if you have ever noticed his feet still turn inward when he walks. I don't think anyone even noticed a problem with his feet until later in his first year. (Much like my older daughter) But, as was stated earlier by someone they used to do all sorts of things for babies feet early on who actually did'nt probably even need intervention. Me included, I had Tibial Torsion in both legs which made my feet appear to turn in toward eachother. They put the shoe brace on me for about 4 months I think my mom said and then deemed me " cured! " I still have the shoes and they are indentical to 's! Same size and everything. You know, I do recall that in my baby book, " What to Expect the First Year " , they say that there are varying degrees of " clubfoot " , metatarsus included as a very mild form all the way up to the more serious form, Equinovarous (sp) which all of our kids have. I don't recall them even mentioning Arthrogryprosis (sp again?) and I'm wondering why. It seems with each article I read some include the mild forms of " clubfoot " and some don't and some include the very serious forms, Arthrogryprosis, and some don't even mention it. When we brought up s metatarsus to Dr. P and asked if it was related he said it depends on why. I guess some of these cases definitely could be related to how the baby is possitoned in the womb and maybe less on genetics, although many of these articles argue the exact opposite. OK, I've gone off on a tangent here! Anyway, I clicked into LeRoy's story and thought it was great that he is such an inspiration to others! Holly and About Leroy Bulter >Hello all! > >After reading all the posts and seeing that had once sent Dr. >Ponseti some information about famous people with cf -- including >that Dallas Cowboy player (I'm sorry, I don't remember his name) -- I >wonder if Dr. Ponseti was confusing the Dallas Cowboy player with the >Green Bay Packer's Leroy . Ordinarily, we would consider this >sacreligious ), but I can see how he would be confused. I wondered >how he answered me so quickly about the metatarsus abductus and >was " wowed " by his knowledge. I thought " This man is great! How did >he know that? He even researches celebrities! " But then, our dear Dr. >Ponseti is in 80's and, for some reason, I wouldn't necessarily see >him as an avid football fan type. (Correct me if someone knows >something I don't about him.) So, I guess he can make a mistake. I >will concede that Leroy Bulter did have clubfoot. Hey, that just >makes a better inspriational story for my husband and son! > >Suzanne and Sam 4-19-00 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 " So, I guess he can make a mistake. " Oh, gag a maggot. I gotta jump in here. I am REALLY beginning to have a problem with the way this man is placed on a pedestal. I have heard him referred to as the " Master " , and such, and I consider THIS sacrilegious. He is a doctor who helped correct your kiddos feet. The only thing that makes him special is the fact that GOD created him and allows him to do what he does. I find it embarrassing and offensive for people to be emulating him like this. I love our doctor, but I am acutely aware of the fact that he is human and fallible. I would never DREAM of being so zealot about anyone. I apologize in advance if this hurts anyone's feelings. I understand that you are grateful to him for helping your children. But, no mortal deserves this kind of worship. He is a doctor. That is all. Jody About Leroy Bulter > Hello all! > > After reading all the posts and seeing that had once sent Dr. > Ponseti some information about famous people with cf -- including > that Dallas Cowboy player (I'm sorry, I don't remember his name) -- I > wonder if Dr. Ponseti was confusing the Dallas Cowboy player with the > Green Bay Packer's Leroy . Ordinarily, we would consider this > sacreligious ), but I can see how he would be confused. I wondered > how he answered me so quickly about the metatarsus abductus and > was " wowed " by his knowledge. I thought " This man is great! How did > he know that? He even researches celebrities! " But then, our dear Dr. > Ponseti is in 80's and, for some reason, I wouldn't necessarily see > him as an avid football fan type. (Correct me if someone knows > something I don't about him.) So, I guess he can make a mistake. I > will concede that Leroy Bulter did have clubfoot. Hey, that just > makes a better inspriational story for my husband and son! > > Suzanne and Sam 4-19-00 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 > " So, I guess he can make a mistake. " > > Oh, gag a maggot. I gotta jump in here. It was humor, Jody. Get over it. Masoner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 Is it really? To be honest with you, I don't think that many of the comments I was referring to are humorous. I think Zealot is what comes to mind. Jody Re: About Leroy Bulter > > > " So, I guess he can make a mistake. " > > > > Oh, gag a maggot. I gotta jump in here. > > > It was humor, Jody. Get over it. > > Masoner > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 My opinion is that people can feel however they want. Don't you agree? My son was not treated by Dr. Ponseti, but I have met him and I have to admit, the guy has a special touch. Windie Lilly > Is it really? To be honest with you, I don't think that many of the > comments I was referring to are humorous. I think Zealot is what comes to > mind. > > Jody > Re: About Leroy Bulter > > >> >>> " So, I guess he can make a mistake. " >>> >>> Oh, gag a maggot. I gotta jump in here. >> >> >> It was humor, Jody. Get over it. >> >> Masoner >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 SO does my doctor. But, I don't gush about him and consider him greater than the man that he is. And if I did go on and on about him, how would that benefit anybody here? After all, they aren't coming here to hear about my doctor and what a " Master " he is. People come here to get educated and talk about issues. Our children.....not the doctor treating them. I sometimes feel it is a waste of my time to sift through e-mail after e-mail emulating Ponseti. I use the French technique. Not Ponseti. This e-group says that it represents all treatment modalities that help defer surgery. I could give a rats patootie what Ponseti thinks about in regards to whether or not a athlete did or did not have clubfoot. Did he treat the man???? NO. I am about to delve into the world of the DBB. I am nervous and full of questions. I love hearing about the babies, when they crawl, walk, smile, coo etc....but I am really tired of hearing about Ponseti himself. Jody Re: About Leroy Bulter > > > > > >> > >>> " So, I guess he can make a mistake. " > >>> > >>> Oh, gag a maggot. I gotta jump in here. > >> > >> > >> It was humor, Jody. Get over it. > >> > >> Masoner > >> > >> > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 > Is it really? To be honest with you, I don't think that many of the > comments I was referring to are humorous. I think Zealot is what comes to > mind. Do you think there might be a *reason* these people heap praises on Ponseti? Stop and *think* for a moment. Why would people act this way? I admit to considerable skepticism about Ponseti before I met the man. I thought it was a bit weird that people would talk about Ponseti in almost reverential tones. But then I met him, and there is something altogether different about Ponseti. He is one of those people that you *might* be blessed to meet once in a lifetime who is truly great. I'm not talking about greatness in the sense of somebody who strives to and attains fame, power, or fortune, but greatness in terms of somebody who is just innately A Good Person. We're certainly grateful parents thankful to a skilled doctor who treated our kids -- but many of us have more than one child who have been treated by doctors. These doctors may have even saved a life or two, and may have spent hours or days with the patient and parents. But the doctors names are nearly forgotten. Ponseti, on the other hand, might spend 10 minutes with you, and most of that time is spent telling his students how to apply a cast or manipulate a foot. He is a mere man, of course, and I don't elevate him beyond that, but meeting Ponseti was pretty close to being a religious experience for me. It sounds weird, but it's true. I think others on list would agree with me. Ponseti has been sitting in a small, midwestern hospital in the middle of nowhere for the past 50+ years quietly helping thousands of children. He has sought no fame or recognition. He is intelligent and charismatic, yes, but he also is full of humility. How many Professors Emeritus do you know who will return phone calls and email messages to prospective patients? So, in light of the witness of dozens of people remarking on how wonderful Ponseti is, what secret evidence can you present, Jody, that would justify your mocking and disrespect? You've given your opinion a number of times that no man should be set up on a pedestal, but can you give any *reason* for that? I have met Ponseti, and he deserves every bit of the recognition given to him. Masoner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 Here Here . Thank you for everyone. Windie Lilly > >> Is it really? To be honest with you, I don't think that many of the >> comments I was referring to are humorous. I think Zealot is what > comes to >> mind. > > > > Do you think there might be a *reason* these people heap praises on > Ponseti? > > Stop and *think* for a moment. Why would people act this way? > > I admit to considerable skepticism about Ponseti before I met the man. > I thought it was a bit weird that people would talk about Ponseti in > almost reverential tones. But then I met him, and there is something > altogether different about Ponseti. He is one of those > people that you *might* be blessed to meet once in a lifetime who is > truly great. I'm not talking about greatness in the sense of somebody > who strives to and attains fame, power, or fortune, but greatness in > terms of somebody who is just innately A Good Person. > > We're certainly grateful parents thankful to a skilled doctor who > treated our kids -- but many of us have more than one child who have > been treated by doctors. These doctors may have even saved a life or > two, and may have spent hours or days with the patient and parents. > But the doctors names are nearly forgotten. > > Ponseti, on the other hand, might spend 10 minutes with you, and most > of that time is spent telling his students how to apply a cast or > manipulate a foot. He is a mere man, of course, and I don't elevate > him beyond that, but meeting Ponseti was pretty close to being a > religious experience for me. It sounds weird, but it's true. I think > others on list would agree with me. > > Ponseti has been sitting in a small, midwestern hospital in the middle > of nowhere for the past 50+ years quietly helping thousands of > children. He has sought no fame or recognition. He is > intelligent and charismatic, yes, but he also is full of humility. > How many Professors Emeritus do you know who will return phone calls > and email messages to prospective patients? > > So, in light of the witness of dozens of people remarking on how > wonderful Ponseti is, what secret evidence can you present, Jody, that > would justify your mocking and disrespect? You've given your opinion > a number of times that no man should be set up on a pedestal, but can > you give any *reason* for that? I have met Ponseti, and he deserves > every bit of the recognition given to him. > > Masoner > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 Jody, If your remarks weren't so inflammatory, I wouldn't have a problem with anything you have stated as your opinion. I think a lesson in tact would be beneficial. To say, " gag a maggot " in regards to someones comment (whether stupid or not) is crass and rude. Probably a little redundant there, but you know what, that was a hurtful statement you made. If you responded to something I said in that fashion, I would be upset. You know, there is an old saying, " If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. " I really think that applied in this case. As for putting Ponseti on a pedestal, I've seen it happen. I think he's a great man, and I admire him. A person doesn't see an 86 yr old man being a caring doctor every day. Personally, I give God the glory for sending us Dr. P's way and for giving Dr. P the ability. The reason that there is so much regarding Dr. P on this list is that there are MUCH more parents on this list who have gone to either see him or one of the docs who practice his method. I wish the French Physiotherapy parents WOULD write more, so I could learn more about it. I am unable to discuss the French Physiotherapy since I have no experience in it. I know of 3 parents on this list for certain, who have had the FP method. There are a 100 some people on this list. Not all Dr. P patients, but definitely out-numbering the FP parents. Makes sense why people would be talking about the Ponseti method then, doesn't it? As I said before, I appreciate the input on FP, and I hope to hear more. Regarding, the DBB. I hope your transition is smooth. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. There are many parents here with many different experiences regarding the DBB. Rose was 7 months when she started wearing hers, and the transition wasn't that bad, though it wasn't a piece of cake either. Just let us know what your questions are, and we will try to answer. Obviously, this isn't the first time you've voiced your distaste in regards to Dr. Ponseti. If you don't like to read about him, there's a nifty little thing you can do on the internet. You can ignore it!!!! And not even be considered rude. You don't even have to read a whole message to realize you don't want to read the rest of it. Anyway, I think I should be focusing on more important things right now, so I better go. I'm just sorry that you have to bring flaming to the list and ripple the fairly calm waters. Joy http://community.webtv.net/joybelle15/ROSESCLUBFOOTPAGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 Goodness gracious, I hate to see bickering. I'm the one who wrote that e-mail and yes, it was intended to be humor -- nothing more. Once again, we have frustration because you can't hear voice inflections and see a person's attitude in an e-mail. You know Jody, I know Dr. Ponseti can make a mistake, I know that he is just a mere man. But I also know what he did for our family and my son, and for that, I will be eternally grateful to God and to Dr. Ponseti. You don't know our story. You don't know what we went through before we found Dr. Ponseti. It was six months of shere torture. I am allowed to have admiration for Dr. Ponseti. I am sorry that that offends you. I wish that you wouldn't take it so personally. Suzanne Holton > " So, I guess he can make a mistake. " > > Oh, gag a maggot. I gotta jump in here. > > I am REALLY beginning to have a problem with the way this man is placed on a > pedestal. I have heard him referred to as the " Master " , and such, and I > consider THIS sacrilegious. He is a doctor who helped correct your kiddos > feet. The only thing that makes him special is the fact that GOD created > him and allows him to do what he does. > > I find it embarrassing and offensive for people to be emulating him like > this. > > I love our doctor, but I am acutely aware of the fact that he is human and > fallible. I would never DREAM of being so zealot about anyone. > > I apologize in advance if this hurts anyone's feelings. I understand that > you are grateful to him for helping your children. But, no mortal deserves > this kind of worship. He is a doctor. That is all. > > Jody > About Leroy Bulter > > > > Hello all! > > > > After reading all the posts and seeing that had once sent Dr. > > Ponseti some information about famous people with cf -- including > > that Dallas Cowboy player (I'm sorry, I don't remember his name) - - I > > wonder if Dr. Ponseti was confusing the Dallas Cowboy player with the > > Green Bay Packer's Leroy . Ordinarily, we would consider this > > sacreligious ), but I can see how he would be confused. I wondered > > how he answered me so quickly about the metatarsus abductus and > > was " wowed " by his knowledge. I thought " This man is great! How did > > he know that? He even researches celebrities! " But then, our dear Dr. > > Ponseti is in 80's and, for some reason, I wouldn't necessarily see > > him as an avid football fan type. (Correct me if someone knows > > something I don't about him.) So, I guess he can make a mistake. I > > will concede that Leroy Bulter did have clubfoot. Hey, that just > > makes a better inspriational story for my husband and son! > > > > Suzanne and Sam 4-19-00 > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 I would like to second Windie's " here here " Here Here! I would take the time to fully write out an appropriate response myself but I think , Joy and Suzanne have said it very eloquently. I would add that Dr. Ponseti is a true hero for us and our children to look up to. To actually meet a true hero is very special. By your comments, Jody, I can tell that you have never met the man. How does hearing our appreciation of him harm you? Let it go! - Re: About Leroy Bulter > Is it really? To be honest with you, I don't think that many of the > comments I was referring to are humorous. I think Zealot is what comes to > mind. Do you think there might be a *reason* these people heap praises on Ponseti? Stop and *think* for a moment. Why would people act this way? I admit to considerable skepticism about Ponseti before I met the man. I thought it was a bit weird that people would talk about Ponseti in almost reverential tones. But then I met him, and there is something altogether different about Ponseti. He is one of those people that you *might* be blessed to meet once in a lifetime who is truly great. I'm not talking about greatness in the sense of somebody who strives to and attains fame, power, or fortune, but greatness in terms of somebody who is just innately A Good Person. We're certainly grateful parents thankful to a skilled doctor who treated our kids -- but many of us have more than one child who have been treated by doctors. These doctors may have even saved a life or two, and may have spent hours or days with the patient and parents. But the doctors names are nearly forgotten. Ponseti, on the other hand, might spend 10 minutes with you, and most of that time is spent telling his students how to apply a cast or manipulate a foot. He is a mere man, of course, and I don't elevate him beyond that, but meeting Ponseti was pretty close to being a religious experience for me. It sounds weird, but it's true. I think others on list would agree with me. Ponseti has been sitting in a small, midwestern hospital in the middle of nowhere for the past 50+ years quietly helping thousands of children. He has sought no fame or recognition. He is intelligent and charismatic, yes, but he also is full of humility. How many Professors Emeritus do you know who will return phone calls and email messages to prospective patients? So, in light of the witness of dozens of people remarking on how wonderful Ponseti is, what secret evidence can you present, Jody, that would justify your mocking and disrespect? You've given your opinion a number of times that no man should be set up on a pedestal, but can you give any *reason* for that? I have met Ponseti, and he deserves every bit of the recognition given to him. Masoner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 Now, I'm going to jump in on this one. Jody, I'm sorry if you find our admiration of Dr. Ponseti " sacrilegious " . People with similar attitudes are one of the many reasons I started this mailing list. I initially set this list up as a place where people could discuss the Ponseti Method openly. When I first set it up, I was not even aware of the French Method. I changed the list info to include it once someone had joined who was utilizing it. Yes, there are now people on here that use the French Method and although I'm happy to have you here, I admit I know so little about it that I can not give advice on it at all. Now that your son is in the DBB, I can tell you what our experiences have been with that. I will say in all honesty that I truly admire everything Dr. Ponseti has done to perfect his method. He is one of the most kind and humble doctors I have ever met. However, I also admire the parents on this list who have put so much of their own lives on hold to come to Iowa (or go to NYU or elsewhere) to have their child's feet treated. I admire for all the research he has done and the information he shares in a way that is easily understood. And Masoner for the time he has devoted to clubfoot.net in trying to get information out about ALL the forms of treatment. Yes, these people are just " ordinary " , but they have all given selflessly given something to others. If you feel this list is not meeting your needs, there are 2 other clubfoot lists (at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/clubfoot and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/clubfoot_French_method ) that you may find helpful. I do hope you stick around because you do have a lot to share. Jody wrote: > " So, I guess he can make a mistake. " > > Oh, gag a maggot. I gotta jump in here. > > I am REALLY beginning to have a problem with the way this man is > placed on a > pedestal. I have heard him referred to as the " Master " , and such, and > I > consider THIS sacrilegious. He is a doctor who helped correct your > kiddos > feet. The only thing that makes him special is the fact that GOD > created > him and allows him to do what he does. > > I find it embarrassing and offensive for people to be emulating him > like > this. > > I love our doctor, but I am acutely aware of the fact that he is human > and > fallible. I would never DREAM of being so zealot about anyone. > > I apologize in advance if this hurts anyone's feelings. I understand > that > you are grateful to him for helping your children. But, no mortal > deserves > this kind of worship. He is a doctor. That is all. > > Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 Hi Jody, I'm sure no other input really needs to be said about all of this but I just wanted to say that for my family we just went through so much hell the first 5 months of 's life with trying to fix her feet that when Dr. Ponseti came along it was hope that we had already run out of many times and our heads had been hitting brick walls all over the place. He not only gave us hope and correction in the end, but our normal lives back. I often wondered while in Iowa if the parents who went to U of I for correction in the first place because they live there really knew what an incredible doctor they had been referred to. ( M. answered my question on that one!) Our family has always referred to Dr. Ponseti as the master because at the University of Michigan (where we recieved our first months of uncorrectable treatment) the surgeons and interns there TOLD us that this man, Dr. Ponseti, with his years of experience and knowlege was in fact the best orthopedic doctor in the country, the master in his field and if he could'nt correct without surgery, they doubted that any other doctor would have been able to either. To hear that from a group of doctors that I still to this day believe to be incredible surgeons (although from the very beginning we were against surgery) I realized that this man knew something that we had'nt tried before and he is doing something that is opening the eyes of doctors all over the world including my doctors here in little Ann Arbor, MI. There must be something to this. Then after meeting him (and by that time I can tell you, I did'nt like ANY doctor and did'nt put any weight in anything they were telling me) all I can say is that we were impressed beyond belief and grateful that somehow, someway were were sent to this man and his team of doctors. I hope the DBB's go easily for you, 's was'nt that bad, only a few days of getting used to them but I have to admit it took her awhile to get into a good sleeping pattern with them on. It also took her a LONG time to learn how to crawl in them. In fact, she did'nt start crawling in them until after she started crawling without them on (11 month old) She was pretty late with all that because she went back into casts for another month in a half right around the time she would have been learning to do all the crawling, and pulling up, etc. Hope all continues to go well. Holly and Re: About Leroy Bulter > " So, I guess he can make a mistake. " > >Oh, gag a maggot. I gotta jump in here. > >I am REALLY beginning to have a problem with the way this man is placed on a >pedestal. I have heard him referred to as the " Master " , and such, and I >consider THIS sacrilegious. He is a doctor who helped correct your kiddos >feet. The only thing that makes him special is the fact that GOD created >him and allows him to do what he does. > >I find it embarrassing and offensive for people to be emulating him like >this. > >I love our doctor, but I am acutely aware of the fact that he is human and >fallible. I would never DREAM of being so zealot about anyone. > >I apologize in advance if this hurts anyone's feelings. I understand that >you are grateful to him for helping your children. But, no mortal deserves >this kind of worship. He is a doctor. That is all. > >Jody > About Leroy Bulter > > >> Hello all! >> >> After reading all the posts and seeing that had once sent Dr. >> Ponseti some information about famous people with cf -- including >> that Dallas Cowboy player (I'm sorry, I don't remember his name) -- I >> wonder if Dr. Ponseti was confusing the Dallas Cowboy player with the >> Green Bay Packer's Leroy . Ordinarily, we would consider this >> sacreligious ), but I can see how he would be confused. I wondered >> how he answered me so quickly about the metatarsus abductus and >> was " wowed " by his knowledge. I thought " This man is great! How did >> he know that? He even researches celebrities! " But then, our dear Dr. >> Ponseti is in 80's and, for some reason, I wouldn't necessarily see >> him as an avid football fan type. (Correct me if someone knows >> something I don't about him.) So, I guess he can make a mistake. I >> will concede that Leroy Bulter did have clubfoot. Hey, that just >> makes a better inspriational story for my husband and son! >> >> Suzanne and Sam 4-19-00 >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 Holly, Well said!!! Joy http://community.webtv.net/joybelle15/ROSESCLUBFOOTPAGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 Joy,Hey! We're on at the same time! Not for long, have to go make dinner, I'm being " beckoned " by the rest of the family! It's hot dogs tonight, yes, I am a gormet! Excuse me everyone, this one was REALLY off the subject! Holly Re: About Leroy Bulter >Holly, >Well said!!! >Joy > > >http://community.webtv.net/joybelle15/ROSESCLUBFOOTPAGE > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 So, in light of the witness of dozens of people remarking on how > wonderful Ponseti is, what secret evidence can you present, Jody, that > would justify your mocking and disrespect? You've given your opinion > a number of times that no man should be set up on a pedestal, but can > you give any *reason* for that? Yes. Because it is my belief that only God and His son Jesus should be worshipped. If Dr. Ponseti is as humble as you say, then he would be mortified to hear people speak of himself in this manner. I believe emulating Dr. P. is disrespectful to him. " How many Professors Emeritus do you know who will return phone calls > and email messages to prospective patients? " Quinn's doctor, for one. He personally got on the phone with me the day I called and HE MADE THE APPOINTMENT at the front desk instead of switching me to a secretary. Also the doctor who is going to try and restore some of my deaf mother's hearing. He has never met her, and lives several states away. And my childhood pediatrician, who came to my wedding and still writes to my siblings and I. That is what it means to be a doctor, and in my time as a nurse, I have met many, truly gifted physicians. Most memorable to me is my 3 yo sons anesthesiologist who came to discuss my sons surgery with us in the holding area. As he was leaving, I told him to please take good care of my son....his reply to me was " Oh, Mrs. M., I am just a surgeon. God is in control. " Or would you like to hear about the doctors in my town that still make house calls? Or about my OB doc, who closed one of their clinics for the day so that he could be with me while I labored. " He is a mere man, of course, and I don't elevate > him beyond that, but meeting Ponseti was pretty close to being a > religious experience for me. " This scares me a bit. I am sorry, but it does. I hope that I am just misunderstanding this. Jody Re: About Leroy Bulter > > > Is it really? To be honest with you, I don't think that many of the > > comments I was referring to are humorous. I think Zealot is what > comes to > > mind. > > > > Do you think there might be a *reason* these people heap praises on > Ponseti? > > Stop and *think* for a moment. Why would people act this way? > > I admit to considerable skepticism about Ponseti before I met the man. > I thought it was a bit weird that people would talk about Ponseti in > almost reverential tones. But then I met him, and there is something > altogether different about Ponseti. He is one of those > people that you *might* be blessed to meet once in a lifetime who is > truly great. I'm not talking about greatness in the sense of somebody > who strives to and attains fame, power, or fortune, but greatness in > terms of somebody who is just innately A Good Person. > > We're certainly grateful parents thankful to a skilled doctor who > treated our kids -- but many of us have more than one child who have > been treated by doctors. These doctors may have even saved a life or > two, and may have spent hours or days with the patient and parents. > But the doctors names are nearly forgotten. > > Ponseti, on the other hand, might spend 10 minutes with you, and most > of that time is spent telling his students how to apply a cast or > manipulate a foot. He is a mere man, of course, and I don't elevate > him beyond that, but meeting Ponseti was pretty close to being a > religious experience for me. It sounds weird, but it's true. I think > others on list would agree with me. > > Ponseti has been sitting in a small, midwestern hospital in the middle > of nowhere for the past 50+ years quietly helping thousands of > children. He has sought no fame or recognition. He is > intelligent and charismatic, yes, but he also is full of humility. > How many Professors Emeritus do you know who will return phone calls > and email messages to prospective patients? > > So, in light of the witness of dozens of people remarking on how > wonderful Ponseti is, what secret evidence can you present, Jody, that > would justify your mocking and disrespect? You've given your opinion > a number of times that no man should be set up on a pedestal, but can > you give any *reason* for that? I have met Ponseti, and he deserves > every bit of the recognition given to him. > > Masoner > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 I can be a really sarcastic person, and it s one of my greatest flaws and frequently gets me in trouble. I should have been much more sensitive and articulated my feelings in a less inflammatory way. My apologies. Jody Re: Re: About Leroy Bulter > Jody, > If your remarks weren't so inflammatory, I wouldn't have a problem with > anything you have stated as your opinion. I think a lesson in tact > would be beneficial. To say, " gag a maggot " in regards to someones > comment (whether stupid or not) is crass and rude. Probably a little > redundant there, but you know what, that was a hurtful statement you > made. If you responded to something I said in that fashion, I would be > upset. You know, there is an old saying, " If you have nothing nice to > say, don't say anything at all. " I really think that applied in this > case. > > As for putting Ponseti on a pedestal, I've seen it happen. I think he's > a great man, and I admire him. A person doesn't see an 86 yr old man > being a caring doctor every day. Personally, I give God the glory for > sending us Dr. P's way and for giving Dr. P the ability. > > The reason that there is so much regarding Dr. P on this list is that > there are MUCH more parents on this list who have gone to either see him > or one of the docs who practice his method. I wish the French > Physiotherapy parents WOULD write more, so I could learn more about it. > I am unable to discuss the French Physiotherapy since I have no > experience in it. I know of 3 parents on this list for certain, who > have had the FP method. There are a 100 some people on this list. Not > all Dr. P patients, but definitely out-numbering the FP parents. Makes > sense why people would be talking about the Ponseti method then, doesn't > it? As I said before, I appreciate the input on FP, and I hope to hear > more. > > Regarding, the DBB. I hope your transition is smooth. If you have any > questions, please feel free to ask. There are many parents here with > many different experiences regarding the DBB. Rose was 7 months when > she started wearing hers, and the transition wasn't that bad, though it > wasn't a piece of cake either. Just let us know what your questions > are, and we will try to answer. > > Obviously, this isn't the first time you've voiced your distaste in > regards to Dr. Ponseti. If you don't like to read about him, there's a > nifty little thing you can do on the internet. You can ignore it!!!! > And not even be considered rude. You don't even have to read a whole > message to realize you don't want to read the rest of it. > > Anyway, I think I should be focusing on more important things right now, > so I better go. I'm just sorry that you have to bring flaming to the > list and ripple the fairly calm waters. > > Joy > > > http://community.webtv.net/joybelle15/ROSESCLUBFOOTPAGE > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 Thanks Holly. Tonight is our first night in the brace. Just another hump on the roller coaster ride we have been on. I can so understand what everyone has been going through. We drive to San from where we live 5 days each week. That is 4 hours round trip each day. I am exhausted. Plus the rest of my family has so many demands. One of which is that I get off the computer right now. Rrrr. I'll be back tomorrow with some questions about the DBB. In Him, Jody About Leroy Bulter > > > > > >> Hello all! > >> > >> After reading all the posts and seeing that had once sent Dr. > >> Ponseti some information about famous people with cf -- including > >> that Dallas Cowboy player (I'm sorry, I don't remember his name) -- I > >> wonder if Dr. Ponseti was confusing the Dallas Cowboy player with the > >> Green Bay Packer's Leroy . Ordinarily, we would consider this > >> sacreligious ), but I can see how he would be confused. I wondered > >> how he answered me so quickly about the metatarsus abductus and > >> was " wowed " by his knowledge. I thought " This man is great! How did > >> he know that? He even researches celebrities! " But then, our dear Dr. > >> Ponseti is in 80's and, for some reason, I wouldn't necessarily see > >> him as an avid football fan type. (Correct me if someone knows > >> something I don't about him.) So, I guess he can make a mistake. I > >> will concede that Leroy Bulter did have clubfoot. Hey, that just > >> makes a better inspriational story for my husband and son! > >> > >> Suzanne and Sam 4-19-00 > >> > >> > >> > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2001 Report Share Posted February 20, 2001 Hi Jody, I have felt much hostility from you in many of your post, not only from this last " bout. " I have chosen to ignore it, forgive and go on. For it seemed as if you were *trying* to get folks to flame. Your apologies are accepted and appreciated. I wish you the best in the first night in the DBB. Where are you being treated at in San ? My father lives in TX. I had many of my cleft lip and palate surgeries done at Wolfed Hall, AFB. My folks were station in Wichita Falls, Tx and would make the long drive to San for check up then back home. Sara and Ivy 8/17/99 www.clubfoot.net Re: Re: About Leroy Bulter > > > > Jody, > > If your remarks weren't so inflammatory, I wouldn't have a problem with > > anything you have stated as your opinion. I think a lesson in tact > > would be beneficial. To say, " gag a maggot " in regards to someones > > comment (whether stupid or not) is crass and rude. Probably a little > > redundant there, but you know what, that was a hurtful statement you > > made. If you responded to something I said in that fashion, I would be > > upset. You know, there is an old saying, " If you have nothing nice to > > say, don't say anything at all. " I really think that applied in this > > case. > > > > As for putting Ponseti on a pedestal, I've seen it happen. I think he's > > a great man, and I admire him. A person doesn't see an 86 yr old man > > being a caring doctor every day. Personally, I give God the glory for > > sending us Dr. P's way and for giving Dr. P the ability. > > > > The reason that there is so much regarding Dr. P on this list is that > > there are MUCH more parents on this list who have gone to either see him > > or one of the docs who practice his method. I wish the French > > Physiotherapy parents WOULD write more, so I could learn more about it. > > I am unable to discuss the French Physiotherapy since I have no > > experience in it. I know of 3 parents on this list for certain, who > > have had the FP method. There are a 100 some people on this list. Not > > all Dr. P patients, but definitely out-numbering the FP parents. Makes > > sense why people would be talking about the Ponseti method then, doesn't > > it? As I said before, I appreciate the input on FP, and I hope to hear > > more. > > > > Regarding, the DBB. I hope your transition is smooth. If you have any > > questions, please feel free to ask. There are many parents here with > > many different experiences regarding the DBB. Rose was 7 months when > > she started wearing hers, and the transition wasn't that bad, though it > > wasn't a piece of cake either. Just let us know what your questions > > are, and we will try to answer. > > > > Obviously, this isn't the first time you've voiced your distaste in > > regards to Dr. Ponseti. If you don't like to read about him, there's a > > nifty little thing you can do on the internet. You can ignore it!!!! > > And not even be considered rude. You don't even have to read a whole > > message to realize you don't want to read the rest of it. > > > > Anyway, I think I should be focusing on more important things right now, > > so I better go. I'm just sorry that you have to bring flaming to the > > list and ripple the fairly calm waters. > > > > Joy > > > > > > http://community.webtv.net/joybelle15/ROSESCLUBFOOTPAGE > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 Jody, I am sorry if I gave you the impression that we or others thought that Dr. Ponseti is GOD or an equivilent. That is not true and was not the intention of the messages that I had posted. I had mentioned the word " master " at least twice recently when describing a direct quote from Dr. Lehman's talk at the U of Iowa in Sept 2000 and my own personal opinion concerning Dr. Ponseti's knowledge and skills in treating children with clubfoot. The context in which " master " was used by Dr. Lehman and in which I have and I think that some parents who have had their children treated by Dr. Ponseti's method might use it is such as a " master craftsman " , " master carpenter " or the " master of his trade " . These are not meant to be references to diety, but rather a description of someones skill at what he does. Historically, for centuries, people being taught a trade or skill hoped to recieve training from the best or " master teacher " of that skill. I believe that was the context to which Dr. Lehman (a world reknowned clubfoot surgeon in his own right) was referring to Dr. Ponseti. That he was acknowleding that he felt Dr. Posneti was the " master " teacher (mortal of course) of the proper way to treat clubfoot and he was glad to now have been taught by Dr. Ponseti. He was therefor acknowledging to the other Dr.'s in attendance that they should also look to Dr. Ponseti to learn the best way to treat clubfoot. It is also my opinion that there is no mortal physician in the world with greater knowledge and skill in the " non-surgical " treatment of clubfoot than Dr. Ponseti. As you realize, many doctors and others may not currently agree with this opinion. My messages in the past that made those references are as follows: " Yes, I am sure that there are probably other doctors that are just as smart as Dr. Ponseti although probably no one who has as much experience in the " non-surgical " treatment of clubfoot. I was at a dinner for the doctors at the Ponseti method training clinic at the U of Iowa in Sept. During that dinner, Dr. Wallace Lehman, an emeritis professor and world reknown expert and author on clubfoot treatment and for whom the NYU pediatric orthopedic center is named gave a talk. In his speech, he stated to the other 40 doctors in the room that for years he had thought that the Ponseti method was just a variation of the Kite method that he already knew about. He said said that after going to Iowa to learn about the Ponseti method for himself in October 1999 and implementing it at NYU; he realized that he had now received training at the feet of the " master " , Dr. Ponseti. It had changed his whole outlook on the treatment of clubfeet. " http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nosurgery4clubfoot/message/5701 " If you go to see Dr. Ponseti, you will be seeing the master (with 60 years of clubfoot treatment experience, although only 50 years with the Ponseti method); " http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nosurgery4clubfoot/message/5002 I am sorry if that misunderstanding was offensive, that was not the intention by Dr. Lehman or myself. and (3-17-99) http://www.vh.org/Patients/IHB/Ortho/Peds/Clubfeet/Egbert.html > I am REALLY beginning to have a problem with the way this man is placed on a > pedestal. I have heard him referred to as the " Master " , and such, and I > consider THIS sacrilegious. He is a doctor who helped correct your kiddos > feet. The only thing that makes him special is the fact that GOD created > him and allows him to do what he does. > > I find it embarrassing and offensive for people to be emulating him like > this. > > I love our doctor, but I am acutely aware of the fact that he is human and > fallible. I would never DREAM of being so zealot about anyone. > > I apologize in advance if this hurts anyone's feelings. I understand that > you are grateful to him for helping your children. But, no mortal deserves > this kind of worship. He is a doctor. That is all. > > Jody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 , Thank you for your response. You really hit the nail on the head and I appreciate that. Coming in here cold turkey, and by that I mean not having had the opportunity to understand or know the history of this e-group, I was quite taken aback with the zeal in which Dr. Ponseti was pushed. Please step into my shoes and view this from a perspective of one stumbling upon a website full of clubfoot info. It said in the header that it represented the French method as well. Here I am, a new mother of a child with a birth defect. I have chosen the French method to correct my sons foot. I am full of worry and wonder if I am doing the right thing. When I came here, I was bombarded with statistics that showed how poor the French method worked. Short casts were a no-no. Tenotomies, etc, etc, etc. This is my baby we are talking about. Do you understand? To me, he is the only statistic I care about at this point. For my son, statistically speaking, it has had a 100% success rate. That is the bottom line for me I know that each one of you feel the same way. These are your babies. One of a kind. I have experienced many of the emotions and trauma that you are going through. I am exhausted, impatient, aggravated and feel like the woman in a movie who is going to loose it and noone is noticing. I have driven over 17,100 miles in the last 5 months and spent over 360 hours in a car with a newborn and a 3 year old. The highlight of one trip was the baby screaming(fed and diapered.....just wanting out), and my toddler with his hands over his ears chanting " Stop it, stop it " for 60 miles. Noone here corners the market on worry, ordeal or sacrifice. I am in touch with the painful emotions everyone is going through. There is probably not one emotion you all are feeling that I cannot validate. So, my feelings known, (however inappropriately I laid them out), lets move on and I will keep my sarcasm in check. In Him, Jody Re: About Leroy Bulter > Jody, > > I am sorry if I gave you the impression that we or others thought > that Dr. Ponseti is GOD or an equivilent. That is not true and was > not the intention of the messages that I had posted. I had mentioned > the word " master " at least twice recently when describing a direct > quote from Dr. Lehman's talk at the U of Iowa in Sept 2000 and my own > personal opinion concerning Dr. Ponseti's knowledge and skills in > treating children with clubfoot. > > The context in which " master " was used by Dr. Lehman and in which I > have and I think that some parents who have had their children > treated by Dr. Ponseti's method might use it is such as a " master > craftsman " , " master carpenter " or the " master of his trade " . These > are not meant to be references to diety, but rather a description of > someones skill at what he does. Historically, for centuries, people > being taught a trade or skill hoped to recieve training from the best > or " master teacher " of that skill. I believe that was the context to > which Dr. Lehman (a world reknowned clubfoot surgeon in his own > right) was referring to Dr. Ponseti. That he was acknowleding that > he felt Dr. Posneti was the " master " teacher (mortal of course) of > the proper way to treat clubfoot and he was glad to now have been > taught by Dr. Ponseti. He was therefor acknowledging to the other > Dr.'s in attendance that they should also look to Dr. Ponseti to > learn the best way to treat clubfoot. > > It is also my opinion that there is no mortal physician in the world > with greater knowledge and skill in the " non-surgical " treatment of > clubfoot than Dr. Ponseti. As you realize, many doctors and others > may not currently agree with this opinion. > > My messages in the past that made those references are as follows: > " Yes, I am sure that there are probably other doctors that are just > as smart as Dr. Ponseti although probably no one who has as much > experience in the " non-surgical " treatment of clubfoot. I was at a > dinner for the doctors at the Ponseti method training clinic at the > U of Iowa in Sept. During that dinner, Dr. Wallace Lehman, an > emeritis professor and world reknown expert and author on clubfoot > treatment and for whom the NYU pediatric orthopedic center is named > gave a talk. In his speech, he stated to the other 40 doctors in the > room that for years he had thought that the Ponseti method was just a > variation of the Kite method that he already knew about. He said > said that after going to Iowa to learn about the Ponseti method for > himself in October 1999 and implementing it at NYU; he realized that > he had now received training at the feet of the " master " , Dr. > Ponseti. It had changed his whole outlook on the treatment of > clubfeet. " > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nosurgery4clubfoot/message/5701 > > " If you go to see Dr. Ponseti, you will be seeing the master (with 60 > years of clubfoot treatment experience, although only 50 years with > the Ponseti method); " > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nosurgery4clubfoot/message/5002 > > I am sorry if that misunderstanding was offensive, that was not the > intention by Dr. Lehman or myself. > > and (3-17-99) > http://www.vh.org/Patients/IHB/Ortho/Peds/Clubfeet/Egbert.html > > > > > > > I am REALLY beginning to have a problem with the way this man is > placed on a > > pedestal. I have heard him referred to as the " Master " , and such, > and I > > consider THIS sacrilegious. He is a doctor who helped correct > your kiddos > > feet. The only thing that makes him special is the fact that GOD > created > > him and allows him to do what he does. > > > > I find it embarrassing and offensive for people to be emulating him > like > > this. > > > > I love our doctor, but I am acutely aware of the fact that he is > human and > > fallible. I would never DREAM of being so zealot about anyone. > > > > I apologize in advance if this hurts anyone's feelings. I > understand that > > you are grateful to him for helping your children. But, no mortal > deserves > > this kind of worship. He is a doctor. That is all. > > > > Jody > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 The first night in the DBBeast was......tiring. He was restless until around 1:00, when he started to cry in pain every time he moved. I removed it and he slept the rest of the night. Think that maybe the bar is too long, as the shoes dig into his upper ankle fiercely. I am going to make an appointment with our ortho and let him check it out. I used the Old Navy socks that were suggested and they worked great. Quinn gets his therapy at Methodist Hospital. It is a wonderful group of people and well worth the drive. Just tiring!! Jody Re: Re: About Leroy Bulter > > > > > > > Jody, > > > If your remarks weren't so inflammatory, I wouldn't have a problem with > > > anything you have stated as your opinion. I think a lesson in tact > > > would be beneficial. To say, " gag a maggot " in regards to someones > > > comment (whether stupid or not) is crass and rude. Probably a little > > > redundant there, but you know what, that was a hurtful statement you > > > made. If you responded to something I said in that fashion, I would be > > > upset. You know, there is an old saying, " If you have nothing nice to > > > say, don't say anything at all. " I really think that applied in this > > > case. > > > > > > As for putting Ponseti on a pedestal, I've seen it happen. I think he's > > > a great man, and I admire him. A person doesn't see an 86 yr old man > > > being a caring doctor every day. Personally, I give God the glory for > > > sending us Dr. P's way and for giving Dr. P the ability. > > > > > > The reason that there is so much regarding Dr. P on this list is that > > > there are MUCH more parents on this list who have gone to either see him > > > or one of the docs who practice his method. I wish the French > > > Physiotherapy parents WOULD write more, so I could learn more about it. > > > I am unable to discuss the French Physiotherapy since I have no > > > experience in it. I know of 3 parents on this list for certain, who > > > have had the FP method. There are a 100 some people on this list. Not > > > all Dr. P patients, but definitely out-numbering the FP parents. Makes > > > sense why people would be talking about the Ponseti method then, doesn't > > > it? As I said before, I appreciate the input on FP, and I hope to hear > > > more. > > > > > > Regarding, the DBB. I hope your transition is smooth. If you have any > > > questions, please feel free to ask. There are many parents here with > > > many different experiences regarding the DBB. Rose was 7 months when > > > she started wearing hers, and the transition wasn't that bad, though it > > > wasn't a piece of cake either. Just let us know what your questions > > > are, and we will try to answer. > > > > > > Obviously, this isn't the first time you've voiced your distaste in > > > regards to Dr. Ponseti. If you don't like to read about him, there's a > > > nifty little thing you can do on the internet. You can ignore it!!!! > > > And not even be considered rude. You don't even have to read a whole > > > message to realize you don't want to read the rest of it. > > > > > > Anyway, I think I should be focusing on more important things right now, > > > so I better go. I'm just sorry that you have to bring flaming to the > > > list and ripple the fairly calm waters. > > > > > > Joy > > > > > > > > > http://community.webtv.net/joybelle15/ROSESCLUBFOOTPAGE > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 Hey, Jody, It is tough. I have questioned many a time, gone nuts several times, and prayed lots. I'm glad you shared your feelings with us because it really helped to put things in perspective for me. Apologies accepted, and hey, a touch of sarcasm here and there doesn't hurt (but sometimes it might need to be explained). Joy http://community.webtv.net/joybelle15/ROSESCLUBFOOTPAGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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