Re: Overreaction to situations that trigger and getti...

[Guest guest]

aw, thats sad :-(

Jackie

Oops...sorry I hit send in mid-sentence. My therapist said I had one of

the loneliest childhood's of anyone she had ever met. I told her that

didn't make me feel good....? LOL

[Guest guest]

That is such a cruel thing to do to a child, or even an adult. Stripping a

person of their own name is dehumanizing, its telling you in an indirect way

that you are a thing, not a person. Its telling you that you are less worthy of

respect and dignity than a dog; even domestic animals have names.

Deliberate cruelty towards one's children seems to be a big feature of

personality disorder, and the *level* of cruelty gets worse the deeper into the

" Cluster B " pool you go; a larger number of the narcissistic pds and the

anti-social pds end up in jail than bpds. Their cruelties include physical

violence, sexual abuse, and child murder as well as emotional torture.

-Annie

>

> thats so sad, 2...my nada called me girl when she was very angry with

> me..like in " I don't know what I'm going to do with you, girl! " My fada

> always called my by my oldests sisters name...and we don't look anything

> alike

>

> Jackie

>

>

> I had a very lonely childhood too. I grew up an only child in a 2 street

> neighborhood a mile out of town, and most of the neighborhood kids were

> boys. We played together until I was about 12 and started developing, then

> I got self-conscious and stayed at home, spent a lot of time in my room too,

> when I wasn't having to shovel up the dog piles in the back yard, mow the

> lawn, or weed the vegetable garden. Around the time I was 12 my nada started

> a cold war with her mother, and the two didn't speak for 4 years...during

> that time my nada used me as her scapegoat, venting onto me the guilt that

> she wouldn't admit to having. Everything I did was scrutinized, criticized

> and belittled. Then she and fada started calling me " GIRL " instead of my

> name, and ordered me around, saying " GIRL, go let the dogs out " ... " GIRL, go

> bring me a pepsi. " I got very depressed and had no self-esteem after

> that...such a lovely way to transition into teenage years.

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

With this being a 3 day weekend, we typically would see nada and fada sometime

during this weekend. I was starting to soften with obligation, thinking of

contacting them to go out to dinner or something with us. After reading your

post, I changed my mind.

I sincerely thank you for putting how they treated me into perspective of

dehumanization. I always felt like I was treated as a slave when they called me

GIRL...they'd even sit and laugh amongst themselves as I was carrying out the

duties. It was most humiliating and thinking back on all that makes me see what

sort of parents I truly had and I don't want to be mistreated anymore. I read

your post to my husband, who said he stands behind me and that he supports me

not contacting them until I'm ready. I'm so thankful our marriage has ironed

out its wrinkles and he's on the same page with me.

You don't know how much you hit the nail on the head about me being treated with

less dignity than the animals. Fada had a hunting dog when I was a kid, and nada

LOVED that dog, sweet talked the dog with babyish little nicknames, groomed him,

hugged and kissed him everyday.

No matter who visited, that dog was allowed to sit on their laps, looking back I

think HOW RUDE to let a full size dog sit on guests laps...but then look who I'm

talking about. My point is that the dog received better treatment than I EVER

did. And to add insult to injury, we had other dogs but they gave those away

for one fabricated reason or another...and it was always the dogs I was most

attached to.

Neither nada or fada ever deal in anything but the physical and material world.

If you can't see it or smell it, it does not exist...specifically I'm referring

to the emotional and spiritual realm. Their primary focus is the physical and

material world. Makes me wonder if they are not sicker than I

realized...leaning towards antisocial pd.

I would be most happy if I never saw either of them again.

2

> >

> > thats so sad, 2...my nada called me girl when she was very angry with

> > me..like in " I don't know what I'm going to do with you, girl! " My fada

> > always called my by my oldests sisters name...and we don't look anything

> > alike

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> > I had a very lonely childhood too. I grew up an only child in a 2 street

> > neighborhood a mile out of town, and most of the neighborhood kids were

> > boys. We played together until I was about 12 and started developing, then

> > I got self-conscious and stayed at home, spent a lot of time in my room too,

> > when I wasn't having to shovel up the dog piles in the back yard, mow the

> > lawn, or weed the vegetable garden. Around the time I was 12 my nada started

> > a cold war with her mother, and the two didn't speak for 4 years...during

> > that time my nada used me as her scapegoat, venting onto me the guilt that

> > she wouldn't admit to having. Everything I did was scrutinized, criticized

> > and belittled. Then she and fada started calling me " GIRL " instead of my

> > name, and ordered me around, saying " GIRL, go let the dogs out " ... " GIRL, go

> > bring me a pepsi. " I got very depressed and had no self-esteem after

> > that...such a lovely way to transition into teenage years.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

With this being a 3 day weekend, we typically would see nada and fada sometime

during this weekend. I was starting to soften with obligation, thinking of

contacting them to go out to dinner or something with us. After reading your

post, I changed my mind.

I sincerely thank you for putting how they treated me into perspective of

dehumanization. I always felt like I was treated as a slave when they called me

GIRL...they'd even sit and laugh amongst themselves as I was carrying out the

duties. It was most humiliating and thinking back on all that makes me see what

sort of parents I truly had and I don't want to be mistreated anymore. I read

your post to my husband, who said he stands behind me and that he supports me

not contacting them until I'm ready. I'm so thankful our marriage has ironed

out its wrinkles and he's on the same page with me.

You don't know how much you hit the nail on the head about me being treated with

less dignity than the animals. Fada had a hunting dog when I was a kid, and nada

LOVED that dog, sweet talked the dog with babyish little nicknames, groomed him,

hugged and kissed him everyday.

No matter who visited, that dog was allowed to sit on their laps, looking back I

think HOW RUDE to let a full size dog sit on guests laps...but then look who I'm

talking about. My point is that the dog received better treatment than I EVER

did. And to add insult to injury, we had other dogs but they gave those away

for one fabricated reason or another...and it was always the dogs I was most

attached to.

Neither nada or fada ever deal in anything but the physical and material world.

If you can't see it or smell it, it does not exist...specifically I'm referring

to the emotional and spiritual realm. Their primary focus is the physical and

material world. Makes me wonder if they are not sicker than I

realized...leaning towards antisocial pd.

I would be most happy if I never saw either of them again.

2

> >

> > thats so sad, 2...my nada called me girl when she was very angry with

> > me..like in " I don't know what I'm going to do with you, girl! " My fada

> > always called my by my oldests sisters name...and we don't look anything

> > alike

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> > I had a very lonely childhood too. I grew up an only child in a 2 street

> > neighborhood a mile out of town, and most of the neighborhood kids were

> > boys. We played together until I was about 12 and started developing, then

> > I got self-conscious and stayed at home, spent a lot of time in my room too,

> > when I wasn't having to shovel up the dog piles in the back yard, mow the

> > lawn, or weed the vegetable garden. Around the time I was 12 my nada started

> > a cold war with her mother, and the two didn't speak for 4 years...during

> > that time my nada used me as her scapegoat, venting onto me the guilt that

> > she wouldn't admit to having. Everything I did was scrutinized, criticized

> > and belittled. Then she and fada started calling me " GIRL " instead of my

> > name, and ordered me around, saying " GIRL, go let the dogs out " ... " GIRL, go

> > bring me a pepsi. " I got very depressed and had no self-esteem after

> > that...such a lovely way to transition into teenage years.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I wish you and all the other fellow KOs here a joyful, interesting, relaxing,

healthy, and lovely holiday weekend, hopefully totally bpd-free and spent with

those who love you and whom you love, or in blissful, serene solitude.

I think we've all earned it.

-Annie

> > >

> > > thats so sad, 2...my nada called me girl when she was very angry with

> > > me..like in " I don't know what I'm going to do with you, girl! " My fada

> > > always called my by my oldests sisters name...and we don't look anything

> > > alike

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> > >

> > > I had a very lonely childhood too. I grew up an only child in a 2 street

> > > neighborhood a mile out of town, and most of the neighborhood kids were

> > > boys. We played together until I was about 12 and started developing,

then

> > > I got self-conscious and stayed at home, spent a lot of time in my room

too,

> > > when I wasn't having to shovel up the dog piles in the back yard, mow the

> > > lawn, or weed the vegetable garden. Around the time I was 12 my nada

started

> > > a cold war with her mother, and the two didn't speak for 4 years...during

> > > that time my nada used me as her scapegoat, venting onto me the guilt that

> > > she wouldn't admit to having. Everything I did was scrutinized,

criticized

> > > and belittled. Then she and fada started calling me " GIRL " instead of my

> > > name, and ordered me around, saying " GIRL, go let the dogs out " ... " GIRL,

go

> > > bring me a pepsi. " I got very depressed and had no self-esteem after

> > > that...such a lovely way to transition into teenage years.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I know exactly what you mean. In my FOO, there were no boundaries for me with

other people. I was taught to accomodate and accomodate, and I was always

wrong. No one ever stood up for me. I can't believe I survived all of that,

And my life is better, sometimes I look back and I don't know how I lived, that

that was my life.

Today I was out doing errands, and I saw this lady from an old job of mine.

That lady undermined my efforts, and caused me so many problems and stress. One

time I got angry with her, and then she said I was too emotional at work! I

couldn't stand that lady. It's been a little while since that job ended, but I

couldn't believe I saw her in a store today. I know she saw me, but I walked

past, and didn't even stop to say " hi " . It was a big store, and I live in a big

city. It was almost like, I was so busy I didn't even see her...

I thought afterwards, wow, had I been younger or even now, had I been with my

FOO, especially fada, I would have tried to tell him how much that lady had

undermined me in my efforts, and fada would not have understood at all. On the

contrary, fada would have told me to go say " hi " to her, fada would have gone

and said " hi " himself, and I would have been in trouble (probably at my age

still, thank God I am NC!!!) and it would have been the theme for the whole

evening until it escalated into fullblown FOO drama. The whole FOO would have

characterized me as " bad " and " impolite " because I didn't chat with that

bothersome lady in the store. The whole day would have been ruined in my FOO,

and I would have been left confused and apologetic and beaten down, with my true

feelings beaten down and ignored.

Today, I just felt relief, that I was able to stay away from and not even

aknowledge someone who had no respect for me whatsoever. It was like making a

little bit of my authentic self known on this planet, and it was certainly

showing myself some respect. And my day went on without a wrinkle. I don't

need that lady.

Also, it just amazes me when families stick up for each other. When a young or

vulnerable member of a family is picked on or disrespected, and the other family

members stick up for that person. That has always fascinated me, because that

NEVER happened for me. It's still hard to accept when people in my life now

care enough about me to get upset when someone else walks all over me. It feels

overwhelming. It's also hard to accept help when someone walks all over me, and

someone else is willing to stick up for me. It feels really foreign.

I think this relates to what you are writing about.

Walkingto Happiness.

>

> Thank you for the reassurance I am not in this alone. I hate that you all

> know how I feel, but at the same time, it helps to know others

> understand...in a twisted sort of way.

>

> I think a good point was brought up here too and that's the blame game.

>

> Everything, when I was little, was my fault. If I got into an argument with

> playmate, my mother ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS took the other child's side.

> However, I'd go to a playmate's house and if we argued (as sometimes kids do)

> the mother would take their child's side. So it left me feeling really

> betrayed all the time and almost like no one was ever one my side.

>

> I get very upset and again, OVERREACT even now if I think someone doesn't

> take my side about something or even just innocently plays the devils

> advocate. I hate it when my husband does it especially because he's married

to

> ME and I feel like he should be siding with me.

>

> I know it stems from childhood. I know, I know, I know it does and I hate

> it, but I feel powerless to stop these feelings sometimes.

>

> Of course, being DID doesn't help my situation.

>

> I have so much work to do in therapy.

>

> It overwhelms me just thinking about it.

>

> One day at a time I guess.

>

>

> **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell’s

> full line of laptops.

>

(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222399266x1201456865/aol?redir=http:%2\

F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215073777%3B3703434

> 3%3Bf)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Walking.

Congratulations on sticking up for YOU.

I know how thaqt feels....

im also sorry you had to go thru that with your Foo...

You DESERVE to be respected and heard.you are NOT invisible...neither are your

feelings.

steve

Subject: Re: Overreaction to situations that trigger and

getti...

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Sunday, May 24, 2009, 12:35 AM

I know exactly what you mean. In my FOO, there were no boundaries for me with

other people. I was taught to accomodate and accomodate, and I was always wrong.

No one ever stood up for me. I can't believe I survived all of that,

And my life is better, sometimes I look back and I don't know how I lived, that

that was my life.

Today I was out doing errands, and I saw this lady from an old job of mine. That

lady undermined my efforts, and caused me so many problems and stress. One time

I got angry with her, and then she said I was too emotional at work! I couldn't

stand that lady. It's been a little while since that job ended, but I couldn't

believe I saw her in a store today. I know she saw me, but I walked past, and

didn't even stop to say " hi " . It was a big store, and I live in a big city. It

was almost like, I was so busy I didn't even see her...

I thought afterwards, wow, had I been younger or even now, had I been with my

FOO, especially fada, I would have tried to tell him how much that lady had

undermined me in my efforts, and fada would not have understood at all. On the

contrary, fada would have told me to go say " hi " to her, fada would have gone

and said " hi " himself, and I would have been in trouble (probably at my age

still, thank God I am NC!!!) and it would have been the theme for the whole

evening until it escalated into fullblown FOO drama. The whole FOO would have

characterized me as " bad " and " impolite " because I didn't chat with that

bothersome lady in the store. The whole day would have been ruined in my FOO,

and I would have been left confused and apologetic and beaten down, with my true

feelings beaten down and ignored.

Today, I just felt relief, that I was able to stay away from and not even

aknowledge someone who had no respect for me whatsoever. It was like making a

little bit of my authentic self known on this planet, and it was certainly

showing myself some respect. And my day went on without a wrinkle. I don't need

that lady.

Also, it just amazes me when families stick up for each other. When a young or

vulnerable member of a family is picked on or disrespected, and the other family

members stick up for that person. That has always fascinated me, because that

NEVER happened for me. It's still hard to accept when people in my life now care

enough about me to get upset when someone else walks all over me. It feels

overwhelming. It's also hard to accept help when someone walks all over me, and

someone else is willing to stick up for me. It feels really foreign.

I think this relates to what you are writing about.

Walkingto Happiness.

>

> Thank you for the reassurance I am not in this alone. I hate that you all

> know how I feel, but at the same time, it helps to know others

> understand.. .in a twisted sort of way.

>

> I think a good point was brought up here too and that's the blame game.

>

> Everything, when I was little, was my fault. If I got into an argument with

> playmate, my mother ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS took the other child's side.

> However, I'd go to a playmate's house and if we argued (as sometimes kids do)

> the mother would take their child's side. So it left me feeling really

> betrayed all the time and almost like no one was ever one my side.

>

> I get very upset and again, OVERREACT even now if I think someone doesn't

> take my side about something or even just innocently plays the devils

> advocate. I hate it when my husband does it especially because he's married to

> ME and I feel like he should be siding with me.

>

> I know it stems from childhood. I know, I know, I know it does and I hate

> it, but I feel powerless to stop these feelings sometimes.

>

> Of course, being DID doesn't help my situation.

>

> I have so much work to do in therapy.

>

> It overwhelms me just thinking about it.

>

> One day at a time I guess.

>

>

> ************ **Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop

Dell’s

> full line of laptops.

> (http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 100126575x122239 9266x1201456865/ aol?redir=

http:%2F% 2Fad.doubleclick .net%2Fclk% 3B215073777% 3B3703434

> 3%3Bf)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I had similar experiences. I had a best friend who lived next door and we would

play all the time, it was really healthy, and her family were really nice to me,

inviting me for dinner all the time. Nada and my split-all-good sister found

some fault with my friend: " she's too bossy " and refused to let me play with her

anymore or go over there. It was painful. If she REALLY was bossy, why not use

the experience to teach me (the child) good boundaries?

It was never about me or my needs as a child. Probably nada and my all-good

sister felt threatened that I would abandon them if I had other friends.

We moved away, and I spent most of my childhood so isolated. whenever I see

kids playing in packs together in neighborhoods, I feel sadness and envy,

because it was an experience I so rarely had as a child. I was so isolated, all

I had were pets, and then the crazy crazy FOO. Thank god for animals, at least.

Although nada was threatened by the time I spent with my pets,too.

The FOO just thought about themselves, and never reflected about parenting or

their impact on me. Feelings were something we weren't supposed to have. So

sad.

With compassion,

Walkingto happiness.

>

> By the end of 5th grade, I was pretty much banned from playing with anyone in

the neighborhood because my mother couldn't get along with the parents. She

would fight with them, so I wouldn't be allowed to play with their kids.

>

>

> I had a similar nada, she fought with all the neighbor women and would yell

for them to keep their %$*# kids in their own yards. The kids and I got along

but nada refused to allow me to play with them.

>

> Then when I was in 4th grade, I made a new friend and was invited to play at

her house. Nada wouldn't allow it because the friend's mother made a derogatory

comment to my nada 15 years earlier.

>

> 2

>

[Guest guest]

Isolating a child is yet another form of emotional abuse:

" Isolating a child, or cutting them off from normal social experiences, prevents

the child from forming friendships and can lead to depression. Isolating a child

seriously impairs their intellectual, emotional and social development.

Isolating is often accompanied by other forms of emotional abuse and often

physical abuse. "

Its like keeping a puppy on a short chain, alone in the back yard, and just

feeding it but not playing with it or giving it attention. Its cruel.

Its just tragic that according to current social services guidelines, emotional

abuse of children is " not actionable. " Children can't be removed for being

emotionally abused, it takes visible physical trauma to become actionable.

I think that needs to change.

-Annie

> >

> > By the end of 5th grade, I was pretty much banned from playing with anyone

in the neighborhood because my mother couldn't get along with the parents. She

would fight with them, so I wouldn't be allowed to play with their kids.

> >

> >

> > I had a similar nada, she fought with all the neighbor women and would yell

for them to keep their %$*# kids in their own yards. The kids and I got along

but nada refused to allow me to play with them.

> >

> > Then when I was in 4th grade, I made a new friend and was invited to play at

her house. Nada wouldn't allow it because the friend's mother made a derogatory

comment to my nada 15 years earlier.

> >

> > 2

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm fairly new here still and I can't get over how much our nada's are alike in

many ways.

My nada wouldn't allow me to play with any of the neighborhood kids except for

one girl she 'chose' for me and she went to her mother and told this woman she

'approved of her to play with her daughter' as she had been 'watching her and

she was acceptable'. This turned out to be a girl 4 years older than I -

someone I would have NEVER chosen for a friend as she was the athletic, brazen,

selfish, condesecending type and I was the artistic, at that time introverted

thanks to nada, self-effacing, giving, caring, sensitive type. This girl only

added to my angst and later abuse. But I guess I have to thank her because if

it weren't for her I wouldn't have turned out to be the woman I had become.

[Guest guest]

I can relate. I grew up as an only child with no grandparents, aunts, uncles,

cousins nearby. My parents never socialized other than the church my mother was

obsessed with.

As an adult, I have no difficulty making friends-just with maintaining the

friendships. I feel " different " -like I don't fit in.

I am visiting my grown children (out-of-state) this weekend. I often feel

isolated. They are big partiers and I am not. I try to leave the impression

that I am having fun, but the truth is, I am not. I love my kids but I don't

feel comfortable. I get the feeling of wanting to go to the airport and go home.

> >

> > By the end of 5th grade, I was pretty much banned from playing with anyone

in the neighborhood because my mother couldn't get along with the parents. She

would fight with them, so I wouldn't be allowed to play with their kids.

> >

> >

> > I had a similar nada, she fought with all the neighbor women and would yell

for them to keep their %$*# kids in their own yards. The kids and I got along

but nada refused to allow me to play with them.

> >

> > Then when I was in 4th grade, I made a new friend and was invited to play at

her house. Nada wouldn't allow it because the friend's mother made a derogatory

comment to my nada 15 years earlier.

> >

> > 2

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Eggshell,

Why don't you just tell your kids you aren't a big partier and maybe you could

just do some mellow, low-key things together?  I am guessing you feel

uncomfortable even with your own children because you feel you have to be

someone you are not with them.  It's not comfortable pretending to be someone

else.  The thing is, they love you too, and I think they could probably meet you

half-way on this. 

I wanted to comment on your feeling " different. "   It reminded me of something I

was reading the other day.  I have been reading a book written by Ervin Staub, a

Holocaust survivor who writes mostly about group violence and genocide.  In his

forward, he writes that before he began to meet with other child survivors of

the Holocaust and to acknowledge his feelings about his experiences and how they

had affected him, he felt like a screen separated him from the rest of the

world. 

I think what you are describing is what everyone feels who has experienced

something terrible--especially when those experiences happened in childhood. 

Having grown up essentially in hell does mark us out as different, but the fact

is that it mostly does not fall outside of the realm of human imagination.  I

think our sense of being at a distance from life isn't mostly about actually

being different.  I think it's a lack of ability to really connect to

ourselves.  There were a lot of things we simply could not acknowledge or

experience directly, feelings we could not feel and truths we could not speak. 

They place us at a distance from ourselves and therefore from other people.

Best,

Ashana

Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Go to

http://in.movies.yahoo.com/

[Guest guest]

2,

I know exactly what you mean about the FOO not understanding anything of the

spiritual or emotional realm. It was straight up rationality with them. I was

always so different from them, because I felt emotions, and I would perceive

creativity and other things that were not straight up material or physical. I

wonder if other peoples' FOOs were like this, too. What makes someone go

through life unable to perceive anything unless it is material?

In my FOO's case, both nada and fada survived wartime and came here as refugees.

I always felt like fada pushed away all his unpleasant memories. He would

recite some memories sometimes, really disturbing stuff that he confided in me

at inappropriate ages, but it was always a retelling devoid of emotion or

reflection. He would state it matter-of-factly and then make really disparaging

comments about the opposing side in that particular war...

Nada was just off her rocker, and although she went through a horrible childhood

in wartime, really horrible stuff, she would only refer to it if she could

manipulate some advantage out of someone for it...

it was always calculating and repressed, and neither of them ever really

processed their trauma or was willing to face their pain in any way. They were

deeply damaged people who experience unspeakable horrors at really young ages,

but they have rejected any help for healing from that.

I think that's why they are so focused on the material. If my FOO had to

aknowledge that there are intangible qualities in life that are just as real as

the material/physical, then they would have to face their pain...

Here's an extreme example of their materialistic worldview: When I was a kid,

pretty young, I remember asking nada in the kitchen one day, " what happens to

people after they die? "

A normal kid question. Nada didn't sugarcoat anything, she said " they are

buried and their bodies disintegrate like the worms eating the leaves in the

fall " .

Pretty gross and direct. No spirituality there. No emotions there but the

desire to shock. It took me years to undo that imagery from my mind.

And, now I'm left with the questions, is all this cultural or is this a symptom

of the BP family??

Thanks for bringing that up, that your people were also totally materialistic

and had no concept of the non-physical in this world. What a horrible way to go

through life. I think my nada has real problems with aging, because of this...

Walkingto happiness

> > >

> > > thats so sad, 2...my nada called me girl when she was very angry with

> > > me..like in " I don't know what I'm going to do with you, girl! " My fada

> > > always called my by my oldests sisters name...and we don't look anything

> > > alike

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> > >

> > > I had a very lonely childhood too. I grew up an only child in a 2 street

> > > neighborhood a mile out of town, and most of the neighborhood kids were

> > > boys. We played together until I was about 12 and started developing,

then

> > > I got self-conscious and stayed at home, spent a lot of time in my room

too,

> > > when I wasn't having to shovel up the dog piles in the back yard, mow the

> > > lawn, or weed the vegetable garden. Around the time I was 12 my nada

started

> > > a cold war with her mother, and the two didn't speak for 4 years...during

> > > that time my nada used me as her scapegoat, venting onto me the guilt that

> > > she wouldn't admit to having. Everything I did was scrutinized,

criticized

> > > and belittled. Then she and fada started calling me " GIRL " instead of my

> > > name, and ordered me around, saying " GIRL, go let the dogs out " ... " GIRL,

go

> > > bring me a pepsi. " I got very depressed and had no self-esteem after

> > > that...such a lovely way to transition into teenage years.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

I totally agree with you about emotional abuse being serious and that it should

be taken more seriously.

when I think back on my FOO, rarely would I have shown any signs of physical

abuse, although it was there, it was so subtle. This is thinking in terms of

the material/physical world, when so much of child rearing is in the

emotional/non-physical world...

How can we get this to change ? Our whole culture is so focused on the

material. I know people who abuse their children but then bring them to school

in brand new and coordinated clothes. Sometimes I think the people with the

best-dressed children are the ones to mistrust most.

Walkingto.

> > >

> > > By the end of 5th grade, I was pretty much banned from playing with anyone

in the neighborhood because my mother couldn't get along with the parents. She

would fight with them, so I wouldn't be allowed to play with their kids.

> > >

> > >

> > > I had a similar nada, she fought with all the neighbor women and would

yell for them to keep their %$*# kids in their own yards. The kids and I got

along but nada refused to allow me to play with them.

> > >

> > > Then when I was in 4th grade, I made a new friend and was invited to play

at her house. Nada wouldn't allow it because the friend's mother made a

derogatory comment to my nada 15 years earlier.

> > >

> > > 2

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Annie,

I totally agree with you about emotional abuse being serious and that it should

be taken more seriously.

when I think back on my FOO, rarely would I have shown any signs of physical

abuse, although it was there, it was so subtle. This is thinking in terms of

the material/physical world, when so much of child rearing is in the

emotional/non-physical world...

How can we get this to change ? Our whole culture is so focused on the

material. I know people who abuse their children but then bring them to school

in brand new and coordinated clothes. Sometimes I think the people with the

best-dressed children are the ones to mistrust most.

Walkingto.

> > >

> > > By the end of 5th grade, I was pretty much banned from playing with anyone

in the neighborhood because my mother couldn't get along with the parents. She

would fight with them, so I wouldn't be allowed to play with their kids.

> > >

> > >

> > > I had a similar nada, she fought with all the neighbor women and would

yell for them to keep their %$*# kids in their own yards. The kids and I got

along but nada refused to allow me to play with them.

> > >

> > > Then when I was in 4th grade, I made a new friend and was invited to play

at her house. Nada wouldn't allow it because the friend's mother made a

derogatory comment to my nada 15 years earlier.

> > >

> > > 2

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Walking,

It is a symptom of a bpd family and/or of the transmission of trauma to

successive generations.   It is not cultural.  All cultures have spiritual

values and beliefs, even if not all members share them.  My family went the

other way, and took on such an extreme version of their religion that it had

almost the same quality as having none--it amounted to a set of rules to follow

and a prescription for how to be good that's essentially impossible.

You may find information on how trauma is transmitted between generations

interesting.  There is quite a bit of work on how traumatic experiences have

affected later generations among Cambodian refugees and Holocaust survivors (and

probably other groups).  It's really very interesting.  Many children of

individuals who have experienced tremendous amounts of collective traumas

describe their parents' recollections in similar ways: as either emotionally

flat, or strange and shocking without any proper context.  They also describe

feeling inappropriately responsible for protecting their parents from the

trauma--such as needing to bring a parent back to present reality from a

flashback.

You aren't alone.

Best,

Ashana

Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Go to

http://in.movies.yahoo.com/

[Guest guest]

Ashana,

Very intersting and very well said. It is a journey we are on, and I appreciate

the words of validation. So many times I suspect things may be one way or

another, but can't always see it straight or can't put the words to my thoughts.

Thanks.

2

 

> I think what you are describing is what everyone feels who has experienced

something terrible--especially when those experiences happened in childhood. 

Having grown up essentially in hell does mark us out as different, but the fact

is that it mostly does not fall outside of the realm of human imagination.  I

think our sense of being at a distance from life isn't mostly about actually

being different.  I think it's a lack of ability to really connect to

ourselves.  There were a lot of things we simply could not acknowledge or

experience directly, feelings we could not feel and truths we could not speak. 

They place us at a distance from ourselves and therefore from other people.

>

> Best,

> Ashana

[Guest guest]

Ashana,

Do you have more information about these studies, I would like to look them up.

I had heard this before, and it's very real for me. It came up in therapy, that

my fada had confided in me at the ages when traumas happened to him, and my T

saw that as inappropriate.

Also, unpacking and rethinking all of the FOO's attitudes, very prejudiced

attitudes towards the other side in that particular war. That's the only

emotion they'll express regarding their traumas: anger at the opposing side. In

the FOO household, it was really normal to insult and degrade that particular

group of people. It has taken me a while to examine those attitudes, and look

for a place of common humanity.

Yeah, please let me know how I can find those studies, because it's true, their

way of telling about the traumas was really flat. I often thought BPD started

because of the unspeakable traumas my nada went through as a child. Because she

can't even speak about it, and because none of that generation can really

address what happened, I feel like I need to read about it, and educate people.

I'm not sure how I would do this, but I do feel a responsibility to somehow

process all of this suffering...

Walkingto

>

> Walking,

>

> It is a symptom of a bpd family and/or of the transmission of trauma to

successive generations.   It is not cultural.  All cultures have spiritual

values and beliefs, even if not all members share them.  My family went the

other way, and took on such an extreme version of their religion that it had

almost the same quality as having none--it amounted to a set of rules to follow

and a prescription for how to be good that's essentially impossible.

>

> You may find information on how trauma is transmitted between generations

interesting.  There is quite a bit of work on how traumatic experiences have

affected later generations among Cambodian refugees and Holocaust survivors (and

probably other groups).  It's really very interesting.  Many children of

individuals who have experienced tremendous amounts of collective traumas

describe their parents' recollections in similar ways: as either emotionally

flat, or strange and shocking without any proper context.  They also describe

feeling inappropriately responsible for protecting their parents from the

trauma--such as needing to bring a parent back to present reality from a

flashback.

>

> You aren't alone.

>

> Best,

> Ashana

>

>

> Bollywood news, movie reviews, film trailers and more! Go to

http://in.movies.yahoo.com/

>

>

[Guest guest]

Walking to,

I think you are a very brave person.

[Guest guest]

Walking,

Unfortunately,  I really can't remember the names of the studies or where I got

them.  I mostly ran across them in the course of looking for something else,

which happens a lot to me.  If you do a search on google like +trauma

+ " intergenerational transmission " you may get something.  When I tried that, I

got mostly information on Holocaust survivors.  You do have to weed through the

ones that are only citations, unfortunately.  You can also try looking for

specific countries/ethnicities that have experienced significant trauma with the

keyword trauma.  If you get stuck, it's really not a bad idea to call up the

reference librarian at your local library and tell them you are looking at

information on the intergenerational transmission of trauma.  They really should

be able to help you.

There are some articles in a book I've been reading that I think may interest

you.  It is Ervin Staub's The Psychology of Good and Evil.  There is an essay in

it by Goleman called " Studying the Pivotal Roles of Bystanders " and there

is one by Staub called " Basic Human Needs and Their Role in Altruism and Human

Aggression. "   Also, you may find his older book, " The Roots of Evil " of

interest. 

I tend to agree with you.  There is something about understanding and processing

the unprocessed trauma that has led to all of this destruction and dysfunction

in the first  that seems like it will in some way help.  You are at least one

less casualty if you are whole.  I also think people need their histories--and

if your parents cannot give you your history or can only give it to you in a

form that is toxic, then I guess you have to seek out the truth on your own.

Best,

Ashana

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