What Borderlines Want--an Amateur List

April 15, 2009

Hi all, Some things about BPD have struck me lately and I need to vent them on

the list.

A very favorite topic of conversation seems to be their desperate, life and

death displeasure with another immediate family member. There seems to be a

constant, relentless obsession with trying to force a family member to do

something the BPD wills--for example, cleaning the yard a particular day, buying

a certain piece of furniture, stopping dating so and so...it will be something

the BPD is *certain* the family member should do, and is not doing. And the

world will be ending, because their will is not happening. It will be presented

as a life and death matter--the family will become destitute, the daughter will

end up pregnant or a prostitute, the house will burst into flames. But if that

one thing they want gets done, the BPD will move on to another thing, and

another, and another. Family interaction is a whole succession of the BPD being

absolutely miserable that their latest want is not being effected.

'Supporting' them as they rant about this means generally just agreeing that the

thing they want is absolutely necessary and that the world will indeed end if it

doesn't happen. But if you do agree with them, and say something insulting

about the party who is not doing their will, or try to say something good about

them, they are apt to turn on you and start a grand argument, as if you've

attacked them.

Which is my next point. If you try to express empathy in a normal way--for

example, by saying they look good if they've expressed a wish to lose weight, or

their husband is abusive if they've insisted he is--they are very apt to take it

as an attack, especially if you are split black. There will then be a weird

'argument' and verbal lashing about how 'bad' you are or how 'wrong' you

are--for agreeing with them. After the verbal lashing, they will then act like

nothing happened and you didn't argue at all.

In general, even outside of will over family members, BPDs seem to be in a

constant state of panicked misery. It will be described as based in reality, in

ways that sounds convincing to outsiders. For example, a daughter is dating

someone she just knows is going to beat her or wind up in jail, and it is

breaking her heart, sob sob panic panic. Or, her husband is going to 'force'

her to go back to work, and she doesn't know how she will bear it, with her

heart condition and all, sob sob ...Any words of comfort or attempts to help fix

the problem don't work. The state of misery is constant. If one thing is

resolved or ends, they will find another thing. After you speak with them, you

feel worried and panicked for them, and want to help them fix whatever they've

expressed--but you will be lashed and attacked if you dare try.

Compliments are not accepted. Compliments are not given.

Attempts at normal conversation are often taken as 'attacks', so that the

conversation is one big 'argument' even though you don't really disagree with

them about anything. I'm not talking about scholarly debate. I'm talking about

weird twisted, convaluded interpretations of what you just said, that make you

less and less likely to want to say anything at all.

There is a willingness to come along with you to more things, and more often,

than a friend or relation usually would. This is good at first. Until you are

split black and start getting misinterpreted.

So. This is how nadas can be even when they're not directly attacking the

person they'r talking to. Hope that list hopes organize behaviors--some of you

split whites may have experienced this sortof thing from nadas when they are

playing the waif? A recent interaction I had brought this up to my mind, and I

needed to post it.

--Charlie

April 15, 2009

Hi Charlie,

I think the panicked misery is really how they feel. I think they really

believe the world will fall apart if x won't stop datig y or if the sky does not

turn blue that day. It must be a scary way to live.

I find the appropriate response to most bpd statements (like husband is being

abusive) is something like, " That must be very upsetting for you. " In other

words, no comment on the facts, only the feelings. The " facts " are full of

mine-fields and often there is some game I am supposed to play that I don't want

to play--such as becomig the one to point out uncomfortable truths for the

purposes of arguing with or to come up with solutions to problems that can then

be shown as unworkable so that the problem does not need to be solved. At the

very least, if you don't agree, then the bp is upset because they feel

invalidated and if you do agree, well...it could cause any number of reactions

(like, " Are you saying I'm FAT!!!)

There is a purpose behind misinterpreting everything you say. I'm not sure what

it is, but there is one. If I think of it, I'll post it. It is not about just

being argumentative and difficult. It has to do with control, and you are

right--the net effect is to kill all desire to speak.

I think the purpose of their panicked rants is exactly what happens--to transfer

the panic onto you. If you feel it, too, then it must be real. And I think bps

want to feel real a lot of the time. They remind me of Pinocchio (I just want

to be a real boy.) I find validating responses helpful for this also. They

remind me that the bp is upset and not me.

I'm so sorry. I can only imagine what the afternoon or whatever it was that you

spent with your nada must have been like.

Best,

Ashana

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April 15, 2009