Re: nadas causing or exacerbating health problems

[Guest guest]

I don't know if there is research out there, but my husband group up with a

BPD parent and has ulcerative colitis.

Stress-related physical problems are not uncommon, though.

In a message dated 5/17/2009 10:23:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

charlottehoneychurch@... writes:

Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a friend who

was extremely offended when I casually mentioned my belief that a narcissist

ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his wife to die early from cancer. I did

put it rather crudely and didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In

the argument that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I

might not be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and other Cluster B

parents/spouses can indeed actually have physical effects on their

families. I'm wondering what experiences any of you have had, and if you guys

know

of literature on this subject.

I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of health

problems improved, and I realized they had very much been 'projected' onto me

by

nada. Obviously this has its limits--you can't say nadas are the sole

cause of illness, esp. cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up an

already existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress and anxiety

they cause; but maybe it could even be more than that.

Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me to have

certain health problems or physical 'deformities' and lo, I did. Until I

learned about BPD and got rid of the will to do her will. I am very interested

in other experiences with this.

--Charlie

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[Guest guest]

I don't think nadas can actually will people to have health

problems, but I do believe they cause them in a several ways.

Stress is known to be a factor in a lot of health problems and

nadas certainly cause a lot of stress. Constant stress weakens

your immune system which leaves you vulnerable and it alters

various hormone levels which messes up your health. I think that

being repeatedly told you're going to be ill or have some sort

of health problem causes your mind and body to comply to a

certain extent too. The mind can have a powerful effect on the

body. Plus, mistreatment by nadas can result in things like

eating disorders that lead to additional health problems.

At 10:23 AM 05/17/2009 charlottehoneychurch wrote:

>Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a

>friend who was extremely offended when I casually mentioned my

>belief that a narcissist ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his

>wife to die early from cancer. I did put it rather crudely and

>didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In the argument

>that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I

>might not be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and

>other Cluster B parents/spouses can indeed actually have

>physical effects on their families. I'm wondering what

>experiences any of you have had, and if you guys know of

>literature on this subject.

>

>I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of

>health problems improved, and I realized they had very much

>been 'projected' onto me by nada. Obviously this has its

>limits--you can't say nadas are the sole cause of illness, esp.

>cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up an

>already existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress

>and anxiety they cause; but maybe it could even be more than

>that.

>

>Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me

>to have certain health problems or physical 'deformities' and

>lo, I did. Until I learned about BPD and got rid of the will

>to do her will. I am very interested in other experiences with

>this.

>

>--Charlie

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Charlie,

I don't think there is any specific evidence that pds cause illness.  On the

other hand, there is very clear evidence that stress contributes to illness,

especially immune-mediated illnesses.  Having your parents own their home in

your childhood (an indicator of financial stability), significantly reduces the

number of colds you get as an adult.  (That was the result of a Harvard study a

few years ago).  Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the study or the

researchers.  What it indicates is that childhood stress has a life-long effect.

Part of the effect of being a KO on me is that I do not know how to take care of

my health.  I don't know when to go to the doctor or how to assess how serious

an illness is.  I wasn't cared for when I was sick as a child.  The response to

physical distress was either non-existant, delayed, or inappropriate and

therefore unhelpful.  I was taught not to listen to myself and to disregard my

perceptions in general, and so I have a terribly hard time evaluating my

physical well-being.  I think this would also be true for those who were only

cared for when they were sick, or were pampered during illness but not at any

other time.  I sometimes do not go to the doctor when I should, and other times

I go when it's really unnecessary.  I end up asking other people or looking at

the webmd advice on " when to consult a physician " because I really do not know. 

I try to accumulate those little things that people seem to use as an

indicator--fever of over 100,

respiratory infection that lasts more than 2 weeks.  My sister is the same

way.  She doesn't know.

If you live with a pd, what you may be faced with is someone who has strange

reactions to your physical symptoms--either rage (since being ill makes you

unavailable to them), panic and excessive care-taking, or minimizing your

concerns.  This may have the same effect.  You put off going to the doctor

because you stop taking symptoms of physical illness seriously, or you go all of

the time for everything until the doctor stops taking you seriously, you don't

listen to your body anymore or you are hypervigilant and then realize you are

over-reacting also don't listen to yourself.  You may push your body more than

you should because your pd has so many demands you need to fulfill.  Stresses

between you and the pd may interfere with things like following a treatment

regimen--you end up forgetting because the stress is affecting your memory, or

there is somehow always a terrible argument right when you need to go to the

physical therapist or do your

exercises or whatever it is.

On the other hand, I think there is a very human tendency to look for

psychological causes for physical problems because we do not want to face our

own physical vulnerabilities or our mortality.  We do not want to think we can

become chronically ill or disabled out of the blue--it's much easier to think

it's some kind of emotional weakness or life stress, because then maybe it won't

happen to us (since we are obviously emotionally stronger and/or we will have

the sense to reduce our stress).

We certainly do not want to believe that we can just suddenly become ill and

die, and it's a lot easier to think an unexpected death might result from some

kind of psychological flaw.  It is easier to think that either because we don't

have that flaw or because something that has a psychological basis seems more

like something we can control.  In part, it's a way of blaming the victim, but

it's also about wanting to think it can't happen to us.  We are in therapy, we

are dealing with our issues, we will not end up like that.  But that's not

true.  Illness strikes very unexpectedly and it is surprisingly indiscriminate

about who it affects.

There is something to what you are saying, Charlie.  His npd may very well have

contributed to your friend's death.  On the other hand, I think it is wise to be

cautious about exaggerating the part it might have played, simply because the

idea that psychological issues cause physical problems is so seductive that

it can seem truer than it really is.

When I lived at home, with my abusive and disordered parents, I was extremely

healthy.  My pulse was 55 bpm whether or not I exercised.  I had a bmi of 18.  I

almost never got sick.  When I was about to turn 30, I was in the process of

ending an emotionally abusive relationship after nine years.  Everyone around me

went on about how you gain weight after that age.  I lost nearly 15 pounds and

never regained it, which makes me terribly underweight.  Within several months,

I developed a chronic illness that has still not been diagnosed nearly 6 years

later.  I now catch almost every cold that goes around.  Getting rid of the

emotional stress in my life did not make me better.  It made me sick.  I have no

doubt that my life has been extremely hard on my body, but I think the role that

stress has played in my physical health is a little more complicated than I can

really understand.

Best,

Ashana

Bring your gang together. Do your thing. Find your favourite Yahoo! group

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[Guest guest]

Also,

As a child I had a ton of allergies...but after I married they all disapeared!

> >

> > Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a friend who

was extremely offended when I casually mentioned my belief that a narcissist

ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his wife to die early from cancer. I did put it

rather crudely and didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In the

argument that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I might not

be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and other Cluster B

parents/spouses can indeed actually have physical effects on their families.

I'm wondering what experiences any of you have had, and if you guys know of

literature on this subject.

> >

> > I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of health

problems improved, and I realized they had very much been 'projected' onto me by

nada. Obviously this has its limits--you can't say nadas are the sole cause of

illness, esp. cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up an already

existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress and anxiety they cause;

but maybe it could even be more than that.

> >

> > Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me to have

certain health problems or physical 'deformities' and lo, I did. Until I

learned about BPD and got rid of the will to do her will. I am very interested

in other experiences with this.

> >

> > --Charlie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Also,

As a child I had a ton of allergies...but after I married they all disapeared!

> >

> > Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a friend who

was extremely offended when I casually mentioned my belief that a narcissist

ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his wife to die early from cancer. I did put it

rather crudely and didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In the

argument that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I might not

be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and other Cluster B

parents/spouses can indeed actually have physical effects on their families.

I'm wondering what experiences any of you have had, and if you guys know of

literature on this subject.

> >

> > I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of health

problems improved, and I realized they had very much been 'projected' onto me by

nada. Obviously this has its limits--you can't say nadas are the sole cause of

illness, esp. cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up an already

existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress and anxiety they cause;

but maybe it could even be more than that.

> >

> > Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me to have

certain health problems or physical 'deformities' and lo, I did. Until I

learned about BPD and got rid of the will to do her will. I am very interested

in other experiences with this.

> >

> > --Charlie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Charlie,

I think you're on to something there. I think the illness and health problems

are a result of the constant state of stress that dealing with a BP causes. I

also had major health issues that seem to be resovling themselves as I separate

more from her. I don't have the constant anxiety in my life, so my body is

starting to relax and I have time to take care of myself and not focus all

energy and time on her. I have to keep away from her and limit contact or it all

starts again. I am definitely healthier - mentally and physically - since I have

gotten away from her.

Abby

>

> Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a friend who was

extremely offended when I casually mentioned my belief that a narcissist

ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his wife to die early from cancer. I did put it

rather crudely and didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In the

argument that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I might not

be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and other Cluster B

parents/spouses can indeed actually have physical effects on their families.

I'm wondering what experiences any of you have had, and if you guys know of

literature on this subject.

>

> I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of health problems

improved, and I realized they had very much been 'projected' onto me by nada.

Obviously this has its limits--you can't say nadas are the sole cause of

illness, esp. cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up an already

existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress and anxiety they cause;

but maybe it could even be more than that.

>

> Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me to have certain

health problems or physical 'deformities' and lo, I did. Until I learned about

BPD and got rid of the will to do her will. I am very interested in other

experiences with this.

>

> --Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

Cortisol is a stress hormone with is also closely linked to weight gain. High

stress = high cortisol levels = weight gain

Abby

> >

> > Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a friend who

was extremely offended when I casually mentioned my belief that a narcissist

ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his wife to die early from cancer. I did put it

rather crudely and didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In the

argument that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I might not

be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and other Cluster B

parents/spouses can indeed actually have physical effects on their families.

I'm wondering what experiences any of you have had, and if you guys know of

literature on this subject.

> >

> > I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of health

problems improved, and I realized they had very much been 'projected' onto me by

nada. Obviously this has its limits--you can't say nadas are the sole cause of

illness, esp. cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up an already

existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress and anxiety they cause;

but maybe it could even be more than that.

> >

> > Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me to have

certain health problems or physical 'deformities' and lo, I did. Until I

learned about BPD and got rid of the will to do her will. I am very interested

in other experiences with this.

> >

> > --Charlie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

I hope everything turns out to be okay with your mammogram.

> >

> > Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a friend who

was extremely offended when I casually mentioned my belief that a narcissist

ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his wife to die early from cancer. I did put it

rather crudely and didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In the

argument that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I might not

be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and other Cluster B

parents/spouses can indeed actually have physical effects on their families.

I'm wondering what experiences any of you have had, and if you guys know of

literature on this subject.

> >

> > I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of health

problems improved, and I realized they had very much been 'projected' onto me by

nada. Obviously this has its limits--you can't say nadas are the sole cause of

illness, esp. cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up an already

existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress and anxiety they cause;

but maybe it could even be more than that.

> >

> > Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me to have

certain health problems or physical 'deformities' and lo, I did. Until I

learned about BPD and got rid of the will to do her will. I am very interested

in other experiences with this.

> >

> > --Charlie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

So sorry . Everything will be okay. I know how difficult and stressful not

knowing can be.

I can relate to this topic completely. Health problems have been a BIG problem

in my family. My nada has had 14 surgeries!! My nada's father has been in the

hospital so many times I can't even count! Needless to say, he is the reason

that my nada is a BPD due to his intense physical abuse and often torture. I

agree with you that health related problems do have something to do with your

mental well being.

There never is a day that went by as a child where my nada DIDNT say she was

sick. Headaches ALL the time, chest pains when she has no heart problems, blurry

vision, earaches, stomach pains (which related to gall bladder and ulcers

later). Constant complaining was definitely an issue in my life that I have had

to overcome myself because it was all I was used to.

Just recently my nada went in for an angiogram to see if there is blockage in

her heart. She recently had the dye test which determines for sure if there is a

blockage, but it got her so sick that she couldn't finish. So they decided to do

the angiogram instead. Doctors told her she is fine and that there is absolutely

nothing blocking. So my nada decides NOT to check up with her primary doctor,

because its her last ditch effort to be the victim!! She doesn't want to ask why

her blood pressure is still high? She doesn't want to ask what medication she

should be taking now? She doesn't want to ask if the dosages are wrong and maybe

they need to raise or lower it? Nope! My nada decides she would rather NOT

know....and be the victim!

AJ

> > >

> > > Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a friend who

was extremely offended when I casually mentioned my belief that a narcissist

ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his wife to die early from cancer. I did put it

rather crudely and didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In the

argument that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I might not

be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and other Cluster B

parents/spouses can indeed actually have physical effects on their families.

I'm wondering what experiences any of you have had, and if you guys know of

literature on this subject.

> > >

> > > I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of health

problems improved, and I realized they had very much been 'projected' onto me by

nada. Obviously this has its limits--you can't say nadas are the sole cause of

illness, esp. cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up an already

existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress and anxiety they cause;

but maybe it could even be more than that.

> > >

> > > Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me to have

certain health problems or physical 'deformities' and lo, I did. Until I

learned about BPD and got rid of the will to do her will. I am very interested

in other experiences with this.

> > >

> > > --Charlie

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

me too !! I had 2 " weird " ones, that turned out to be nothing !! One was a

fluid filled cyst that once they drained, it was gone..the other was a black

" spot " that disapeared on its own

Jackie

,

I hope everything turns out to be okay with your mammogram.

[Guest guest]

I think stress from living with and dealing with a BPD/NP can cause health

issues, but naturally they aren't the only causes :-) My nada has told me

since I was in high school that she thinks I have lupus. I have a

" butterfly " type redness across my cheeks and nose..that's it...and for this

she has hounded me almost every time we are in the same room...I've been

checked for it ( I have no symptoms of it, or symptoms that can't be

explained) she's just psycho !!

Jackie

Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a friend who

was extremely offended when I casually mentioned my belief that a narcissist

ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his wife to die early from cancer. I did

put it rather crudely and didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In

the argument that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I

might not be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and other Cluster B

parents/spouses can indeed actually have physical effects on their families.

I'm wondering what experiences any of you have had, and if you guys know of

literature on this subject.

I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of health

problems improved, and I realized they had very much been 'projected' onto

me by nada. Obviously this has its limits--you can't say nadas are the sole

cause of illness, esp. cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up

an already existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress and

anxiety they cause; but maybe it could even be more than that.

Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me to have

certain health problems or physical 'deformities' and lo, I did. Until I

learned about BPD and got rid of the will to do her will. I am very

interested in other experiences with this.

--Charlie

[Guest guest]

oh crap. I guess I have lupus too. I have had red cheeks and nose my whole life.

LOL. A couple of years ago my mom got upset with me and told me that I had way

too much blush on. Only problem? I wasn't wearing any.

So-do you think BPD people cause health issues for themselves due to their own

negativity? My mother has a host of health issues, mainly diabetes (type 1) and

fibromyalgia (sp?) When she gets stressed about things like money, or loss of

control (like when we told her we were moving) she vomits and has debilitating

diarrhea (sorry for TMI) for a few days. This started back when my step dad

asked for a divorce. It never happened prior to that.

>

> I think stress from living with and dealing with a BPD/NP can cause health

> issues, but naturally they aren't the only causes :-) My nada has told me

> since I was in high school that she thinks I have lupus. I have a

> " butterfly " type redness across my cheeks and nose..that's it...and for this

> she has hounded me almost every time we are in the same room...I've been

> checked for it ( I have no symptoms of it, or symptoms that can't be

> explained) she's just psycho !!

>

> Jackie

>

>

> Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a friend who

> was extremely offended when I casually mentioned my belief that a narcissist

> ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his wife to die early from cancer. I did

> put it rather crudely and didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In

> the argument that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I

> might not be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and other Cluster B

> parents/spouses can indeed actually have physical effects on their families.

> I'm wondering what experiences any of you have had, and if you guys know of

> literature on this subject.

>

> I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of health

> problems improved, and I realized they had very much been 'projected' onto

> me by nada. Obviously this has its limits--you can't say nadas are the sole

> cause of illness, esp. cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up

> an already existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress and

> anxiety they cause; but maybe it could even be more than that.

>

> Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me to have

> certain health problems or physical 'deformities' and lo, I did. Until I

> learned about BPD and got rid of the will to do her will. I am very

> interested in other experiences with this.

>

> --Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

LOL welcome to the non lupus lupus club :-) I never wear makeup..I blush

very easily naturally, and always have the red cheeks and bridge of

nose...so, I don't need make up :-) maybe some BPD people do cause their own

illneses, I don't think BPD was the reason for my nadas ....my nada was

always very healthy until she got older ( she's almost 85)..she has diabetes

type 2 because she's been so overweight her whole adult life..she's had 2

bouts of non Hodgkin's lymphoma cancer..one in the 1990's and one in

2004...and she's had a heart attack, but she always refused to go to the dr

and get checked out...so other than the cancer, her other conditions were

brought on by her eating habits..and other than that...she's never sick..she

rarely ever had a cold, never had the flu...

Jackie

oh crap. I guess I have lupus too. I have had red cheeks and nose my whole

life. LOL. A couple of years ago my mom got upset with me and told me that I

had way too much blush on. Only problem? I wasn't wearing any.

So-do you think BPD people cause health issues for themselves due to their

own negativity? My mother has a host of health issues, mainly diabetes (type

1) and fibromyalgia (sp?) When she gets stressed about things like money, or

loss of control (like when we told her we were moving) she vomits and has

debilitating diarrhea (sorry for TMI) for a few days. This started back when

my step dad asked for a divorce. It never happened prior to that.

[Guest guest]

Oh, that's great news for you! I like it when things disappear on their own.

>

> me too !! I had 2 " weird " ones, that turned out to be nothing !! One was a

> fluid filled cyst that once they drained, it was gone..the other was a black

> " spot " that disapeared on its own

>

> Jackie

>

>

> ,

>

> I hope everything turns out to be okay with your mammogram.

>

[Guest guest]

thanks, me too :-) they of course wanted to see me in 6 months for a few

times in a row...they decided it must have been either a cyst or maybe a

bruise ?

Jackie

Oh, that's great news for you! I like it when things disappear on their

own.

[Guest guest]

I too have the red checks, due to roseceia. I have other health problems because

of my weight and nerves. High blood pressure and cholestrol.

I am trying to stay off the anti- depressants, that it is hard.

Nada's are hard on our physical and emotional health for sure...

and it really is disturbing to know that. Parents are to help and support, not

tear us down.

Malinda

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " sleddog " wrote:

>

> LOL welcome to the non lupus lupus club :-) I never wear makeup..I blush

> very easily naturally, and always have the red cheeks and bridge of

> nose...so, I don't need make up :-) maybe some BPD people do cause their own

> illneses, I don't think BPD was the reason for my nadas ....my nada was

> always very healthy until she got older ( she's almost 85)..she has diabetes

> type 2 because she's been so overweight her whole adult life..she's had 2

> bouts of non Hodgkin's lymphoma cancer..one in the 1990's and one in

> 2004...and she's had a heart attack, but she always refused to go to the dr

> and get checked out...so other than the cancer, her other conditions were

> brought on by her eating habits..and other than that...she's never sick..she

> rarely ever had a cold, never had the flu...

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> oh crap. I guess I have lupus too. I have had red cheeks and nose my whole

> life. LOL. A couple of years ago my mom got upset with me and told me that I

> had way too much blush on. Only problem? I wasn't wearing any.

> So-do you think BPD people cause health issues for themselves due to their

> own negativity? My mother has a host of health issues, mainly diabetes (type

> 1) and fibromyalgia (sp?) When she gets stressed about things like money, or

> loss of control (like when we told her we were moving) she vomits and has

> debilitating diarrhea (sorry for TMI) for a few days. This started back when

> my step dad asked for a divorce. It never happened prior to that.

>

[Guest guest]

At 03:02 PM 05/17/2009 my4fireflies wrote:

>So-do you think BPD people cause health issues for themselves

>due to their own negativity?

I think BPD makes every little bitty symptom turn into a major

health issue in their minds. They like to be victims and want

reasons why the rest of us should be forced to take care of

them. My nada started moaning and groaning about having

arthritis years ago. As far as I could tell, she didn't have

much of a real problem with it at that time. But because her

arthritis was " bad " she stopped getting any exercise at all,

leading to her being more and more out of shape, leading to

further real health problems. I think their failure to behave

sensibly exacerbates their health problems as well. My nada says

she can't understand why her cholesterol is high when she's a

vegetarian. She can't (or more likely, doesn't want to) see that

eating almost all packaged food instead of cooking healthy meals

is bad for her health or that doing things like eating a whole

bag of candy bars or a carton of ice cream might have something

to do with her cholestrol level. My nada's not one of the ones

who refuses to go to the doctor, but I'm not convinced she

really listens to the doctor when she goes. Beyond that, I think

that being angry and resentful so much of the time harms their

health just like I think the stress they cause us harms our

health.

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Do you have rosacea? I have the red flush too. They also thought I had lupus

because I have other autoimmune issues. Turns out I don't - thank heavens. But,

I do have rosacea i.e. redness in my cheeks, nose and forehead which flairs up

when nada stresses me out or I eat hot/spicy food. )

>

> I think stress from living with and dealing with a BPD/NP can cause health

> issues, but naturally they aren't the only causes :-) My nada has told me

> since I was in high school that she thinks I have lupus. I have a

> " butterfly " type redness across my cheeks and nose..that's it...and for this

> she has hounded me almost every time we are in the same room...I've been

> checked for it ( I have no symptoms of it, or symptoms that can't be

> explained) she's just psycho !!

>

> Jackie

>

>

> Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a friend who

> was extremely offended when I casually mentioned my belief that a narcissist

> ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his wife to die early from cancer. I did

> put it rather crudely and didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In

> the argument that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I

> might not be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and other Cluster B

> parents/spouses can indeed actually have physical effects on their families.

> I'm wondering what experiences any of you have had, and if you guys know of

> literature on this subject.

>

> I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of health

> problems improved, and I realized they had very much been 'projected' onto

> me by nada. Obviously this has its limits--you can't say nadas are the sole

> cause of illness, esp. cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up

> an already existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress and

> anxiety they cause; but maybe it could even be more than that.

>

> Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me to have

> certain health problems or physical 'deformities' and lo, I did. Until I

> learned about BPD and got rid of the will to do her will. I am very

> interested in other experiences with this.

>

> --Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

Now this is getting very weird! I have rosacea, you have rosacea..sounds like MY

and Jackie have it...I blame nada. " She did this to meeeeeeee!!!...It's all her

faulllllllt that I have a red face..waaaahhhhh " ..(Abby goes wailing from the

room in nada hysterics...NOT!)

> >

> > LOL welcome to the non lupus lupus club :-) I never wear makeup..I blush

> > very easily naturally, and always have the red cheeks and bridge of

> > nose...so, I don't need make up :-) maybe some BPD people do cause their own

> > illneses, I don't think BPD was the reason for my nadas ....my nada was

> > always very healthy until she got older ( she's almost 85)..she has diabetes

> > type 2 because she's been so overweight her whole adult life..she's had 2

> > bouts of non Hodgkin's lymphoma cancer..one in the 1990's and one in

> > 2004...and she's had a heart attack, but she always refused to go to the dr

> > and get checked out...so other than the cancer, her other conditions were

> > brought on by her eating habits..and other than that...she's never sick..she

> > rarely ever had a cold, never had the flu...

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > oh crap. I guess I have lupus too. I have had red cheeks and nose my whole

> > life. LOL. A couple of years ago my mom got upset with me and told me that I

> > had way too much blush on. Only problem? I wasn't wearing any.

> > So-do you think BPD people cause health issues for themselves due to their

> > own negativity? My mother has a host of health issues, mainly diabetes (type

> > 1) and fibromyalgia (sp?) When she gets stressed about things like money, or

> > loss of control (like when we told her we were moving) she vomits and has

> > debilitating diarrhea (sorry for TMI) for a few days. This started back when

> > my step dad asked for a divorce. It never happened prior to that.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That is what I have, same side effects... one good thing is we never need

blush...:-)

Malinda

In WTOAdultChildren1 , " abby_doo " wrote:

>

> Do you have rosacea? I have the red flush too. They also thought I had lupus

because I have other autoimmune issues. Turns out I don't - thank heavens. But,

I do have rosacea i.e. redness in my cheeks, nose and forehead which flairs up

when nada stresses me out or I eat hot/spicy food. )

>

>

>

>

> >

> > I think stress from living with and dealing with a BPD/NP can cause health

> > issues, but naturally they aren't the only causes :-) My nada has told me

> > since I was in high school that she thinks I have lupus. I have a

> > " butterfly " type redness across my cheeks and nose..that's it...and for this

> > she has hounded me almost every time we are in the same room...I've been

> > checked for it ( I have no symptoms of it, or symptoms that can't be

> > explained) she's just psycho !!

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> > Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a friend who

> > was extremely offended when I casually mentioned my belief that a narcissist

> > ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his wife to die early from cancer. I did

> > put it rather crudely and didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In

> > the argument that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I

> > might not be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and other Cluster B

> > parents/spouses can indeed actually have physical effects on their families.

> > I'm wondering what experiences any of you have had, and if you guys know of

> > literature on this subject.

> >

> > I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of health

> > problems improved, and I realized they had very much been 'projected' onto

> > me by nada. Obviously this has its limits--you can't say nadas are the sole

> > cause of illness, esp. cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up

> > an already existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress and

> > anxiety they cause; but maybe it could even be more than that.

> >

> > Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me to have

> > certain health problems or physical 'deformities' and lo, I did. Until I

> > learned about BPD and got rid of the will to do her will. I am very

> > interested in other experiences with this.

> >

> > --Charlie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, I hope so too. I have a few benign cysts already, now I have several

others that showed up which are not the usual round but oval shape and are close

to dividing and have to go back in September for another mammogram. I've been

trying to take better care of myself, especially emotionally to reduce the

stress in my life. Getting dumped by nada and fada as the result of boundary

setting has been the best thing, and also avoiding the bpd dil. My son and

grandson came to visit today w/o her...its always nice when she's not around.

2

> > >

> > > Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a friend who

was extremely offended when I casually mentioned my belief that a narcissist

ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his wife to die early from cancer. I did put it

rather crudely and didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In the

argument that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I might not

be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and other Cluster B

parents/spouses can indeed actually have physical effects on their families.

I'm wondering what experiences any of you have had, and if you guys know of

literature on this subject.

> > >

> > > I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of health

problems improved, and I realized they had very much been 'projected' onto me by

nada. Obviously this has its limits--you can't say nadas are the sole cause of

illness, esp. cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up an already

existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress and anxiety they cause;

but maybe it could even be more than that.

> > >

> > > Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me to have

certain health problems or physical 'deformities' and lo, I did. Until I

learned about BPD and got rid of the will to do her will. I am very interested

in other experiences with this.

> > >

> > > --Charlie

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Can they biopsy them?

Glad to hear that you saw your son and grandson without the crazy lady.

> > > >

> > > > Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a friend

who was extremely offended when I casually mentioned my belief that a narcissist

ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his wife to die early from cancer. I did put it

rather crudely and didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In the

argument that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I might not

be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and other Cluster B

parents/spouses can indeed actually have physical effects on their families.

I'm wondering what experiences any of you have had, and if you guys know of

literature on this subject.

> > > >

> > > > I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of health

problems improved, and I realized they had very much been 'projected' onto me by

nada. Obviously this has its limits--you can't say nadas are the sole cause of

illness, esp. cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up an already

existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress and anxiety they cause;

but maybe it could even be more than that.

> > > >

> > > > Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me to have

certain health problems or physical 'deformities' and lo, I did. Until I

learned about BPD and got rid of the will to do her will. I am very interested

in other experiences with this.

> > > >

> > > > --Charlie

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

They said they were a level 3, which is questionable but not malignant at this

point so right now they're just monitoring them with mammogram. We have a

useless HMO, so who knows what sort of hack surgeon I'd even be referred to. I

had a few benign things removed in the past by a wonderful surgeon, but he's not

in my current insurance plan. Insurance companies run the world.

2

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a friend

who was extremely offended when I casually mentioned my belief that a narcissist

ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his wife to die early from cancer. I did put it

rather crudely and didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In the

argument that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I might not

be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and other Cluster B

parents/spouses can indeed actually have physical effects on their families.

I'm wondering what experiences any of you have had, and if you guys know of

literature on this subject.

> > > > >

> > > > > I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of health

problems improved, and I realized they had very much been 'projected' onto me by

nada. Obviously this has its limits--you can't say nadas are the sole cause of

illness, esp. cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up an already

existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress and anxiety they cause;

but maybe it could even be more than that.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me to have

certain health problems or physical 'deformities' and lo, I did. Until I

learned about BPD and got rid of the will to do her will. I am very interested

in other experiences with this.

> > > > >

> > > > > --Charlie

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hell yes! Most illnesses I have had are pretty directly related to times of

extreme FOO induced, nada particularly, stress. Charlie, I'm surprised your

friend got offended - another person maybe who doesn't want to believe families

can hurt eachother I guess. Health is a delicate thing, our bodies work hard to

stay in balance in the face of environmental toxins, carcinogens, exposure to

viruses and bacteria, remove free radicals...it's truly amazing and stress

hampers the body's ability to do all that.

>

> Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a friend who was

extremely offended when I casually mentioned my belief that a narcissist

ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his wife to die early from cancer. I did put it

rather crudely and didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In the

argument that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I might not

be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and other Cluster B

parents/spouses can indeed actually have physical effects on their families.

I'm wondering what experiences any of you have had, and if you guys know of

literature on this subject.

>

> I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of health problems

improved, and I realized they had very much been 'projected' onto me by nada.

Obviously this has its limits--you can't say nadas are the sole cause of

illness, esp. cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up an already

existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress and anxiety they cause;

but maybe it could even be more than that.

>

> Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me to have certain

health problems or physical 'deformities' and lo, I did. Until I learned about

BPD and got rid of the will to do her will. I am very interested in other

experiences with this.

>

> --Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

i don't think that i believe that personality disorders cause cancer, but i

definitely think that stress will eventually lead to cancer. my aunt died this

march from cancer that they found in february. in the previous year, her

husband had been brutally assaulted and had both lungs punctured by broken ribs.

we thought he was going to die, but he pulled through. then a few months after

that, her brother was killed by a drunk driver WHILE SITTING ON A CURB! he

wasn't even in a car! it was sooooooo horrible. anyway, i think that those two

things happening so closely together really screwed up her immune system and she

just succumbed to cancer.

i can't prove any of this, but it has gotten me worried. i know that i have

huge knots in my upper and lower back from stress and since my aunt died, i have

decided to get my stress levels under control. i think that if i keep

sustaining the amount of stress i'm used to living under, i will inevitably end

up with cancer. so i have been exercising and getting an hour massage once a

week. i also have gone nc and am keeping myself out of stressful situations as

much as possible. hopefully this will help.

bink

>

> Hi everyone, I got into a very rare argument last night with a friend who was

extremely offended when I casually mentioned my belief that a narcissist

ex-boyfriend of mine had caused his wife to die early from cancer. I did put it

rather crudely and didn't qualify it--I wasn't thinking about it. In the

argument that ensued, I realized that I do strongly believe (though I might not

be able to prove it scientifically) that nadas and other Cluster B

parents/spouses can indeed actually have physical effects on their families.

I'm wondering what experiences any of you have had, and if you guys know of

literature on this subject.

>

> I know that when I began to break free of nada, any number of health problems

improved, and I realized they had very much been 'projected' onto me by nada.

Obviously this has its limits--you can't say nadas are the sole cause of

illness, esp. cancers, but I do think they can increase or speed up an already

existing propensity. Maybe just by the constant stress and anxiety they cause;

but maybe it could even be more than that.

>

> Anyway it certainly *feels* true to me, that my nada willed me to have certain

health problems or physical 'deformities' and lo, I did. Until I learned about

BPD and got rid of the will to do her will. I am very interested in other

experiences with this.

>

> --Charlie

>