Re: National Registry Paramedic Exam

[Guest guest]

Can anyone release, tell, or explain how the RFP was done and who it was sent

to?

There is a company " Schroeder Measurement Technologies " (www.smtorg.com) that

provides testing services. They do so for the State of Florida. As a Paramedic

wanna be, you ship your application, course completion and $75 ($65 for EMT's)

to the State. They send you a ticket and you show up at the testing site you

chose on the last Friday of the month. You sit for an exam that has been

written, validated, and now given by SMT folks. If you pay $15 extra, they will

grade it before you leave and your results are your certification until you get

the card within 14 days.

Recertification is handled by the State (unless you choose to test which SMT

provides). Every 2 years (December of each even year(2000, 2002, 2004) all

certified people expire. You recert by sending $45 for Paramedics ($20 for

EMT's) to the state with your CE's and a completed application. That is all.

I know that Florida is a separate state, but can we not learn from their

experience? SMT has been providing this service for over 9 years and the cost

is WAY reasonable compared to Texas. Plus, you get your results same day if you

are willing to pay a little extra. How cool is that?

This allows some neat features that you might not see in the Texas or NR

formats. Looking for EMT's or Paramedics to come to work for you in a tight

labor market? A great recruiting tool is to be standing outside the testing

site when the succesful ones walk out (BTW, everybody pays the $15 extra to get

their results before they leave). At some of the testing sites, it looks like

the exhibit hall at Conference. Ambulances, booths, etc all set up in the

parking lot recruiting new employees.

All this to say, if the State didn't get what they were looking for in their

first RFP, why not reject the bids and repeat the process? I cannot imagine

that, if the bid was structured well, that other agencies besides NR would not

be willing to put their hat in the ring. According to their website, SMT is

looking for more business......

Just my thoughts, sorry about all the Florida talk, but even though they can't

count, they have overcome a few issues that Texas is just now looking at.

Dudley Wait

[Guest guest]

Donn,

I agree that we don't need to make this worse than it sounds, but it was clearly

stated in Austin at the EMS subcommittee meeting that after the NR began

providing testing for Texas that:

TDH would still collect $75 because legislation required it.

NR fees would have to be paid by the students taking the test, but the state

would attempt to waive the fees for volunteers (because of the money saved from

the $75 not going to state testing anymore). This included site fees and

testing fees. For NR-EMT exams, they would continue to be given by TDH at the

regional offices as there was no skills testing involved.

For Paramedics the testing would be done by 30 coordinators chosen by TDH (as an

initial set) who would provide all the paramedic testing across the state. This

was necessary because NR requires skills testing for Paramedics. The cost of

the testing site fees was discussed because it is coming upon time to find a way

to pass those costs along to students (tough for some educational institutions

whose fees are set by others) and the costs described in earlier posts are not

out of line for new certificants wanting NR/Texas certification.

After successfully completing the NR testing process (passing all the skills and

the written test; a full day at best) then the ne NR-EMTP would be given a four

year state of Texas card (for what purpose???)

So, although he was illustrating the absurd with the absurd, Ron's costs are not

that far out of line.....

Dudley

[Guest guest]

While adding figures, why not compute the cost of traveling to another area,

the cost of fuel and lodging expenses, not to mention meals. Hopefully the

vehicle doesn't break down, Additionally, what if an employee has to take

off work to go take a test, will the employer pay any of the costs since it

may be required to continue working? I don't want to figure the additional

costs -- it will give me a headache!!

Joanna B. LP

[Guest guest]

Ron,

You know that I am basically in agreement with you that the testing

issue needs revisiting. I don't like the way our Texas colleges were

railroaded with the short bid process. Things could have been done

better and should be done over. I am not against NR, I just feel that

if our local colleges had been allowed a reasonable amount of time to

review and offer counter proposals that we might have been able to

keep the test development process in state. All that said I'm afraid

I have to take issue with your figures. I don't like to see this made

to sound worse than it really is.

Just to clarify things, the cost mentioned in the initial post that

you seem to take issue with is the cost of National Registry testing,

not Texas initial or re-certification testing. The National Registry

site fee is for a two-day testing that includes both skills and

written tests. Part of the cost is to pay for the required NR

representative and the rest goes to the site to pay costs, which

include skills examiners. National Registry, as Don Elbert so

eloquently stated, is a costly process initially, but fairly

inexpensive to maintain. This is something to consider as NR is one

of the Texas re-certification options.

The proposed Texas test is not the same as the test being offered at

TSTC and the fees you object to will probably not apply. I'm not

saying the new process isn't costly, but probably not as costly as

you make it sound. If I recall correctly there will be a $75.00

application fee paid to the state and a $50.00 testing fee paid to

NR. The application fee is waived for volunteers and the state is

looking for a way to refund the testing fee as well. The site fee, if

here is any, will not be refunded. Since it will be only a one-day

event and there will be no skills testing, I doubt the site fee will

be the $125.00 being charged by TSTC. If indeed there is a site fee

that would be my major bone of contention. My take is that the $75.00

application fee should cover any site fees and the cost of all

manpower involved.

You are correct that the fees will be repeated for each retest. As

for how much it will cost an applicant to retest six times, well…

should this even be allowed? I feel that if they have that much

trouble with the test they ought to be required to go back to school

and complete the entire process from the beginning, and that will

cost them a bunch of money. Just my opinion.

Regards,

Donn

> The best part ,if needed you can take up to 6 test X $290.00=

$1,740.00. You can fail one skill and just keep retesting. Three

test, then a refresher, and then three more if needed. This doesn't

included any increase once they have a full hold on Texas.

> Thanks,

> Ron

> National Registry Paramedic Exam

>

>

> There will be an advanced level (Paramedic only) test held on

February 1st and 2nd in Abilene Texas at Texas State Technical

College.

>

> Site fee is $125 per person, plus the cost of the NREMT fee

which is $50.

>

> There will be a 4 hour preparation class given on:

> December 13th from 0830 hrs at TSTC-Abilene and on December

18th from 0830 hrs at Navarro Jr College in Waxahachie.

>

> Cost for the prep class is $40 per person.

>

> Please email me if you have any questions, want a packet sent

to you, or want to register.

>

> Thanks, Lee

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Don,

What was not pointed out was the fact that NR DID NOT submit on official bid

as was required, but submitted an unofficial bid per say. Lance, the air

medical rep on GETAC pointed out to TDH and Kathy Perkins that if NR did not

submit an official bid, then why are they being considered to do the state

testing. GETAC was told by TDH that there were several that did place a

bid, but when a meeting was set up to discuss the process, no one showed up

for the meeting. Others on GETAC also questioned why, this was not put out

for re-bid. Ron, made the point that if no one made a bid, then they should

request more bids. Others said that some did not submit, because of all of

the hoops that they had to go through and the limited time frame.

I, and it appears that other feel the same way, that TDH should not accept

the NR unofficial bid.

Yes, testing site fee are set by each school, so they can range from $100 on

up to what ever the school wants to set them at, for either the written or

to re-test one skill.

Just my thoughs.

Wayne

>

>Reply-To:

>To: < >

>Subject: Re: National Registry Paramedic Exam

>Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:40:49 -0600

>

>Ron, we are hoping that TDH rethinks NR also. We are as familiar with it as

>anyone as we have been doing NR testing at our place for 14 years. In these

>14 years we have seen MANY people face retest needs (and at a considerably

>higher rate than with TDH testing). So, as you point out - $290 is for one

>test. Now, for those folks who will need a written retest (there's another

>$50 and probably another site fee to go with it), and a skills retest (even

>if it's 1 station but another site fee attached). Mmmm, this is adding up.

>

>If TDH wanted someone to contract with to write their exam, so be it....but

>it's unfortunate that the road takes the twist that NR happens to be the

>only bidder...and then...oh boy...they're in the perfect position to just

>take over Texas testing. TDH can now wash their hands of it, and we're

>suddenly a " NR state " .

>

>We started the testing here for our own interest and, at the time, it was

>something else for our staff, if interested, could gain in the way of

>credentials. Some of them worked offshore or out-of-state, and needed it.

>It served a purpose. It subsequently became required by our service. And

>after these years of experience with NR, I can say (and I think accurately)

>that the Texas exam (despite a few recent gliches), has been offering a

>much better instrument for competency measurement. Had been offering it, I

>should say.

>

>The NR sites have also costed us plenty. Yes, we charge outside people, but

>most of the candidates are our own who are not charged. Expense that we

>didn't have with TDH testing. I'm sure that the Texas to NR conversion will

>see new private-based as well as college-based " entrepreneurs " who will be

>making money from hosting NR test sites. For many of the states around us,

>Paramedic candidates are paying $200 or more per site. It's one reason

>they've come to us (we charge $100). It'll be interesting to see how this

>goes and who'll charge what.

>

>If you have anything to do with initial testing...you can start warning

>your students now...prepare for coughing up many more bucks than Texas

>testing would have costed you. And, with volunteer reimbursement, who'll

>pay for that? I bet everyone else who is certifying, licensing,

>registering, or re-certifying, re-licensing, re-registering (any of the

>above) will. These fees may just be going up in the near future to cover it

>(?) And what about the more rural students who likely will have more travel

>involved reaching the test sites, if our prediction that test sites will be

>few and far between. Just speculation.

>

>Texas EMS Training Programs: Good luck. With the current trends in state

>EMS, we did NOT need to see a more expensive and burdensome testing process

>looming. Those students who were already wavering about which health

>program to go into...may have just got more bad news about EMS. We will

>keep doing the NR sites as we have been, so it won't change things for us.

>We're used to it. But for the rest of the state, I do not wish to see the

>NR of EMT's process become your ONLY testing process. Prepare your students

>well, prep them for the testing process, and don't be too frustrated when

>many of them face retests.

>

>Don Elbert, LP, EMS/C

>Education Coordinator

>ETMC-EMS, Tyler

>

>

>

>

> >>> washcoems@... 12/10/01 11:14AM >>>

> If you add everything below, and $75 for Paramedic application with

> " TDH " that is $290.00 for one test. This was a major issue EMSAT pointed

>out to TDH at the GETAC meeting. Some site fees , ect' may be higher. I

>hope TDH re-thinks going to NR. TDH said they wanted to refund the

>Volunteers, but that would only be the NR testing fee.

>Thanks,

>

>EMSAT President

> National Registry Paramedic Exam

>

>

> There will be an advanced level (Paramedic only) test held on February

>1st and 2nd in Abilene Texas at Texas State Technical College.

>

> Site fee is $125 per person, plus the cost of the NREMT fee which is

>$50.

>

> There will be a 4 hour preparation class given on:

> December 13th from 0830 hrs at TSTC-Abilene and on December 18th from

>0830 hrs at Navarro Jr College in Waxahachie.

>

> Cost for the prep class is $40 per person.

>

> Please email me if you have any questions, want a packet sent to you, or

>want to register.

>

> Thanks, Lee

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Reality Check:

1. TDH has no choice but to go to NR because it has no mechanism in place

to create exams which are defensible.

2. The State of Texas, in it's infinite wisdom as applied by the Lege, has

limited budget for TDH to the extent that there is no way it can develop such

a mechanism at present funding levels.

3. Once TDH did have such a mechanism in place and it worked very well.

But, as the song goes, " you never know what you've got till it's gone. They

paved Paradise and put up a parking lot. " (Joni , The Big Yellow

Taxi).

4. Now that the parking lot is in place, it only makes sense to outsource.

That's the American way.

5. EMS has no constituency among legislators nor with the bureaucrats who

call the shots. TDH is under Texas Department of Human Services, and the

Bureau of Emergency Management is only a pustule on the ass of that

organization. EMS is seen as a " problem child " by members of the Lege, and

it is only one of many who are trying to grab a piece of the pie. Everybody

else has a stronger organization, a better lobby, and more money to spend

than we do. Look at the hospitals, nursing homes, physician organizations,

nursing organizations, lawyers, accountants, HMOs, and myriads of others

who have in place lobbying groups. Money talks and we as EMS

certificants/licensees ain't got none.

6. Stuff like " Homeland Security " moves strictly along political lines.

Don't think for one minute that folks in Washington nor Austin have ever

given any thought about how to better use the resources that EMS folks have.

It's all about " Show me the Money. " We all are heroes in our little

communities because the little old ladies and men that rely upon us know us,

but we have NO clout either in state or national politics.

We are a community of bright, dedicated people, but we're essentially

whiners. We never have trusted and probably never will trust any

organization to represent us, allow it's duly elected representatives to

represent us, nor to lobby for our interests, because we can't even decide

what our collective interests are.

gg

E. Gandy, JD, LP

EMS Professions Program

Tyler Junior College

Tyler, TX

[Guest guest]

> After successfully completing the NR testing process (passing all the

skills and the written test; a full day at best) then the ne NR-EMTP would

be given a four year state of Texas card (for what purpose???)

Interesting point. If there's no Texas test, why have a Texas card? Why

not just accept *any* NREMTP from *any* state? And if there's no Texas

card, what's the point of licensure? NR doesn't recognize licensure.

Should that be a condition before allowing them to " run " Texas testing?

Two issues with this: there is significant hope of making progress along

the lines of " licensed medical personnel " in the next legislative session,

from what I hear, with regards to prehospital medicine and in-hospital

paramedics in Texas. No licensure, no " licensed medical personnel " as

paramedics. Secondly, what to do about all of us who *are* licensed and

need to re-license? How does this fit into the cafeteria plan and

requirements for re-licensure, let alone re-certification.

Mike

[Guest guest]

Next year, Joby, next year. Houston Texans. <vbg>

Mike

----- Original Message -----

To: < >

> Such a sad thing on a holiday. Not to mention that the Colts lost to the

> Dolphins.

[Guest guest]

This is really a sad move for TDH to make if the figures are correct. We

have been under change for so many years and I was under the impression

several years ago that we were going in the right direction, Until now. Can

someone tell me what it costs for a RN to take their boards and a medical

doctor to take theirs as well? I would like to know if the profession pays

them a good salary or hourly wage to justify new applicants to continue in

the chosen profession. There is an overflow of paramedics working for $7-10

an hour, barely making their ends meet and know this.

Such a sad thing on a holiday. Not to mention that the Colts lost to the

Dolphins.

Joby Berkley

National Registry Paramedic Exam

>

>

> There will be an advanced level (Paramedic only) test held on

February 1st and 2nd in Abilene Texas at Texas State Technical College.

>

> Site fee is $125 per person, plus the cost of the NREMT fee which is

$50.

>

> There will be a 4 hour preparation class given on:

> December 13th from 0830 hrs at TSTC-Abilene and on December 18th

from 0830 hrs at Navarro Jr College in Waxahachie.

>

> Cost for the prep class is $40 per person.

>

> Please email me if you have any questions, want a packet sent to

you, or want to register.

>

> Thanks, Lee

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

More bake and raffle tickets just like in the old days. It will take the

community to pull together and figure out what their priority will be for

EMS coverage.

JB

Re: National Registry Paramedic Exam

>

> I do not have much knowledge on NR. I am curious about what it takes too

renew every two years.

> I must agree that this will be an issue with the small EMS providers who

volunteer/or make a small salary. How are those in poverty able to pay

these outrageous fees. They wont and once again EMS will be set back with

lack of personnel and money. It is truly amazing when things sound so good

to be true, they are not.

>

> s

>

[Guest guest]

Dudley,

I was not present in Austin at the GETAC subcommittee meeting, but I

was when Eddie explained the certification process and re-

certification options at the conference. There was right smart

discussion at the time on the topic of NR. My understanding differs

from what you write and I may be incorrect. If so will take my

lashes. Eddie monitors this list. Maybe he will chime in and set the

record straight.

The test as I understood it would be composed of " retired " NR exam

questions and would not be the actual, current NR exam. Texans would

not be testing for NR and would not receive the NR patch. Thus the

costs would not necessarily be the same as initial NR certification

testing. If I am incorrect and this applies only to re-certification

then I apologize for my ignorance.

As I said in an earlier post, I don't have any problem with the NR

exam being used as the Texas exam other than the additional costs it

entails. However, additional cost is something we may have to learn

to live with. My problem is with the extreme requirements of the RFP

and the failure to allow adequate time for our Texas colleges to be

part of the process. For these reasons I feel the process should be

reopened. If the exam were developed in state we might be able to

better control the cost.

Alternately I feel that if we are going to go with NR we ought to go

all the way, pay our fees to NR and drop the Texas fees altogether. I

say this knowing full well nothing like this will not happen. No

political body will ever give up a source of revenue once it has its

hooks into it.

Regards,

Donn

> Donn,

>

> I agree that we don't need to make this worse than it sounds, but

it was clearly stated in Austin at the EMS subcommittee meeting that

after the NR began providing testing for Texas that:

>

> TDH would still collect $75 because legislation required it.

>

> NR fees would have to be paid by the students taking the test, but

the state would attempt to waive the fees for volunteers (because of

the money saved from the $75 not going to state testing anymore).

This included site fees and testing fees. For NR-EMT exams, they

would continue to be given by TDH at the regional offices as there

was no skills testing involved.

>

> For Paramedics the testing would be done by 30 coordinators chosen

by TDH (as an initial set) who would provide all the paramedic

testing across the state. This was necessary because NR requires

skills testing for Paramedics. The cost of the testing site fees was

discussed because it is coming upon time to find a way to pass those

costs along to students (tough for some educational institutions

whose fees are set by others) and the costs described in earlier

posts are not out of line for new certificants wanting NR/Texas

certification.

>

> After successfully completing the NR testing process (passing all

the skills and the written test; a full day at best) then the ne NR-

EMTP would be given a four year state of Texas card (for what

purpose???)

>

> So, although he was illustrating the absurd with the absurd, Ron's

costs are not that far out of line.....

>

> Dudley

[Guest guest]

Bingo! Everyone out there better grow up fast and get it together.

> Reality Check:

>

> 1. TDH has no choice but to go to NR because it has no mechanism

in place

> to create exams which are defensible.

>

> 2. The State of Texas, in it's infinite wisdom as applied by the

Lege, has

> limited budget for TDH to the extent that there is no way it can

develop such

> a mechanism at present funding levels.

>

> 3. Once TDH did have such a mechanism in place and it worked very

well.

> But, as the song goes, " you never know what you've got till it's

gone. They

> paved Paradise and put up a parking lot. " (Joni , The Big

Yellow

> Taxi).

>

> 4. Now that the parking lot is in place, it only makes sense to

outsource.

> That's the American way.

>

> 5. EMS has no constituency among legislators nor with the

bureaucrats who

> call the shots. TDH is under Texas Department of Human Services,

and the

> Bureau of Emergency Management is only a pustule on the ass of that

> organization. EMS is seen as a " problem child " by members of the

Lege, and

> it is only one of many who are trying to grab a piece of the pie.

Everybody

> else has a stronger organization, a better lobby, and more money to

spend

> than we do. Look at the hospitals, nursing homes, physician

organizations,

> nursing organizations, lawyers, accountants, HMOs, and myriads of

others

> who have in place lobbying groups. Money talks and we as EMS

> certificants/licensees ain't got none.

>

> 6. Stuff like " Homeland Security " moves strictly along political

lines.

> Don't think for one minute that folks in Washington nor Austin have

ever

> given any thought about how to better use the resources that EMS

folks have.

> It's all about " Show me the Money. " We all are heroes in our little

> communities because the little old ladies and men that rely upon us

know us,

> but we have NO clout either in state or national politics.

>

> We are a community of bright, dedicated people, but we're

essentially

> whiners. We never have trusted and probably never will trust any

> organization to represent us, allow it's duly elected

representatives to

> represent us, nor to lobby for our interests, because we can't even

decide

> what our collective interests are.

>

> gg

>

> E. Gandy, JD, LP

> EMS Professions Program

> Tyler Junior College

> Tyler, TX

>

>

>