RE: Jean - on the Freeze??/Carol

[Guest guest]

Carol

Have you ever come right out and asked her why she is " ignorant " and doesn't

respond to your emails? When my daughter doesn't answer my calls to her or

the messages I leave her, it annoys the heck oput of me. For instance,

according to our agreement< I am supposed to see the boys Sat and Wed. Well,

has soccer now on Sat. I asked her what time and she said it changes.

I

told her I want his schedule so I can schedule my time as well. For this

Sat, she asked if I could take them Sunday instead because she wanted to take

them to a County Fair> I told her I have an OPen HOuse for real estate on

Sunday and perhaps I could take them for the full day during the week. She

whined

a bit and said to just take them Sat.

I got home and realized the Open HOuse is 12-2. I called her cell (not

allowed to call her land line becuase it is in her convict hubby's name----not

that he works and pays for it and HE doesn't want me calling on it). I left a

message saying she could have them Sat and I would take them Sunday after my

Open House. Asked her to call me back and let me know if that would work.

That was Thurs night around 8. By 10 on Friday still no answer. I called

again. She didn't answer and didn't ret a 22nd and a third message. Told her

I

needed to know so I could schedule MY days and if I didn't hear from her by a

certain time, I would consider Sat to be my day with them. Case closed. I

was trying to accomodate her and still I get crap!

She called back a half hr after the time I gave her and saidm her cell had

been dead. Bullsh--. Had it been dead it would have gone into VM right away

and it didn't. If she REALLY does leave that phone in the car most of the

day and night, I can see why she makes nothing in real estate. She must never

answ her messages.

But I am about to tell her that I really didn't raise her to be ignorant and

would appreciate it if she remembered the manners she was taught.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean

I think you give too much of your personal power away. Most of our bp's

have on-again off-again relationships with us. I think that in order to

live healthy lives and to really separate our lives from theirs, we have to

reach the point where it doesn't matter what they do, we move on.

I do understand that your situation is complicated because of the grandkids

involved. And, since your grandkids aren't bp's, then it is very difficult

to sever that relationship.

But it seems to me that it would be much healthier if you could just close

the door on ALL of those relationships. Instead, I hear you speaking over

and over and over again how much your dtr's behavior bothers you - but YOU

are the one who has control over your own emotions and what you let bother

you.

Then I hear you also say how much you hate her, etc. Dare I venture forth

that if you really hated her, in your heart of hearts, it wouldn't hurt

nearly so much when she spurns your advances.

Dear I say these things not to criticize you, but rather to look at

the list and postings of others throughout these past weeks and months, and

how it seems that those whose own personal lives are now healthier are those

who have been able to put their relationships with their bp's AND grandkids

to the side and move on with their own lives.

Dot

[Guest guest]

Carol

Yes my daughter IS very bright academically. Graduated from an excellent 4

year college with excellent grades. Has never used her degree though, chose

to waitress instead. Wouldn't want to actually compete with other

intelligent individuals. But I still believe it is " ignorant " , lacking in

manners or

whatever you would like to call it, to do what she does. How would she like it

if I didn't pick up the cell phone when I see her number come up?

And after all that the other day to change the schedule for my having the

kids, she is home today. I can tell when she is on line and right now she is

on line------not at the County Fair with the boys and all the fuss was over

her having them today. I really think EVERYTHING she does is a game. SO you

are right, I shouild not have gotten frazzled. I should have left it that I

would take them on my regular day instead of caring if she wanted to go to some

Fair. Once again I make the mistake of bending over backwards to accomodate

her desires and make myself a mess.

And she can't even answer a damned phone.

Jean

[Guest guest]

No, I have never asked her why she is " ignorant. " She is not ignorant.

I tried to work with her, but I gave her MY schedule -- if I was the babysitter,

she needed to work around me. She used me by going in early -- I work out of

the house, I told her she could start at 4:00. Initially, she did. Then, she'd

leave at 2:30 and 3 (the baby really wasn't sleeping like she should have been).

So, I started working at a coffee shop and I'd get back when it was time for me.

If she went in at 3:30, I'd be back in time.

Initially, she would post her hours on our calendar (for all of two weeks), then

it ws a secret. I figure I am the one doing her a favor.

Her plans always change --to be expected.

Observe. If someone is continually late by an hour or so, initially you are

annoyed. But the second, third and fourth times you on on notice. You know

what to expect. I go about my business. If they get to my home hours late and

I am not there, they can wait for me. If someone is not considerate enough to

work with you, go about your business.

You cannot control her behavior. You are in control of your reaction however.

Her boyfriend will not pick up his cell if he sees it's my number. Does it

annoy me? Sure, i just want to speak with my granddaughter. But I cannot

change them.

When your daughter needs something from you, she will call.

Under no circumstances would I tell her she's ignorant (she is probably a very

bright person). It's o.k. to remind her " I trust will do the right thing. "

Caroll-------------- Original message --------------

> Carol

>

> Have you ever come right out and asked her why she is " ignorant " and doesn't

> respond to your emails? When my daughter doesn't answer my calls to her or

> the messages I leave her, it annoys the heck oput of me. For instance,

> according to our agreement< I am supposed to see the boys Sat and Wed. Well,

> has soccer now on Sat. I asked her what time and she said it changes.

> I

> told her I want his schedule so I can schedule my time as well. For this

> Sat, she asked if I could take them Sunday instead because she wanted to take

> them to a County Fair> I told her I have an OPen HOuse for real estate on

> Sunday and perhaps I could take them for the full day during the week. She

> whined

> a bit and said to just take them Sat.

>

> I got home and realized the Open HOuse is 12-2. I called her cell (not

> allowed to call her land line becuase it is in her convict hubby's name----not

> that he works and pays for it and HE doesn't want me calling on it). I left a

> message saying she could have them Sat and I would take them Sunday after my

> Open House. Asked her to call me back and let me know if that would work.

> That was Thurs night around 8. By 10 on Friday still no answer. I called

> again. She didn't answer and didn't ret a 22nd and a third message. Told her

> I

> needed to know so I could schedule MY days and if I didn't hear from her by a

> certain time, I would consider Sat to be my day with them. Case closed. I

> was trying to accomodate her and still I get crap!

>

> She called back a half hr after the time I gave her and saidm her cell had

> been dead. Bullsh--. Had it been dead it would have gone into VM right away

> and it didn't. If she REALLY does leave that phone in the car most of the

> day and night, I can see why she makes nothing in real estate. She must never

> answ her messages.

>

> But I am about to tell her that I really didn't raise her to be ignorant and

> would appreciate it if she remembered the manners she was taught.

>

> Jean

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dot,

You're very good with words -- said so well. Much better than me.

Carol

-------------- Original message --------------

> Jean

>

>

>

> I think you give too much of your personal power away. Most of our bp's

> have on-again off-again relationships with us. I think that in order to

> live healthy lives and to really separate our lives from theirs, we have to

> reach the point where it doesn't matter what they do, we move on.

>

>

>

> I do understand that your situation is complicated because of the grandkids

> involved. And, since your grandkids aren't bp's, then it is very difficult

> to sever that relationship.

>

>

>

> But it seems to me that it would be much healthier if you could just close

> the door on ALL of those relationships. Instead, I hear you speaking over

> and over and over again how much your dtr's behavior bothers you - but YOU

> are the one who has control over your own emotions and what you let bother

> you.

>

>

>

> Then I hear you also say how much you hate her, etc. Dare I venture forth

> that if you really hated her, in your heart of hearts, it wouldn't hurt

> nearly so much when she spurns your advances.

>

>

>

> Dear I say these things not to criticize you, but rather to look at

> the list and postings of others throughout these past weeks and months, and

> how it seems that those whose own personal lives are now healthier are those

> who have been able to put their relationships with their bp's AND grandkids

> to the side and move on with their own lives.

>

>

>

> Dot

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, I don't know, Carol. I just found myself envying YOUR ability to say so

many things in a tactful way; wish I could emulate you more!

Dot

_____

From: WTOParentsOfBPs

[mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of

bosoxfan199@...

Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 1:59 PM

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: RE: - on the " Freeze " ??/Carol

Dot,

You're very good with words -- said so well. Much better than me.

Carol

-------------- Original message --------------

> Jean

>

>

>

> I think you give too much of your personal power away. Most of our bp's

> have on-again off-again relationships with us. I think that in order to

> live healthy lives and to really separate our lives from theirs, we have

to

> reach the point where it doesn't matter what they do, we move on.

>

>

>

> I do understand that your situation is complicated because of the

grandkids

> involved. And, since your grandkids aren't bp's, then it is very difficult

> to sever that relationship.

>

>

>

> But it seems to me that it would be much healthier if you could just close

> the door on ALL of those relationships. Instead, I hear you speaking over

> and over and over again how much your dtr's behavior bothers you - but YOU

> are the one who has control over your own emotions and what you let bother

> you.

>

>

>

> Then I hear you also say how much you hate her, etc. Dare I venture forth

> that if you really hated her, in your heart of hearts, it wouldn't hurt

> nearly so much when she spurns your advances.

>

>

>

> Dear I say these things not to criticize you, but rather to look at

> the list and postings of others throughout these past weeks and months,

and

> how it seems that those whose own personal lives are now healthier are

those

> who have been able to put their relationships with their bp's AND

grandkids

> to the side and move on with their own lives.

>

>

>

> Dot

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Carol

Thanks for the insight. Quite honestly I wondered if this might be the case

and mentuined it to my son, who's response was, " why not just start doing

things right? " I often ask myself that same question.

As I have mentioned before, my daughter has a 4 yr degree from an excellent

college here. When you mention the name of the college to most business and

professional people, their response is, " Oh, she can write her own ticket

now " . Yeah, right!!! Since she graduated, she has only waitressed for years

and then a couple of years ago got the real estate license (commissions only

and no paid benefits). A couple of years ago, while still waitressing, she had

had a good day tip wise and made quite a bit of money. She said ro me,

" aren't you proud of me? " . I said " yes " , but thought to myself, what's to be

proud of when you have a degree you refuse to use and you are waitressing like

someone with no degree or like she did as a part time job while in college.

Does my daughter think her choice of men and her stealing other peoples'

credit is going to get her respect and positive reinforcement from anyone with

any moral fiber? Is it really easier for them to just be screw ups?

So I will not react. Actually I don't react and tell her she is lacking in

mannners. I just fume to myself and to all you guys here.

Jean

[Guest guest]

When my daughter doesn't answer my calls to her or

> the messages I leave her, it annoys the heck oput of me.

It occurred to me -- when my daughter was younger she would continue

inappropriate behavior and push and push my buttons, until finally

you'd have enough -- you would break. She was continually looking

for this reaction.

It gave her a high. She told someone she could never do anything

good enough, she could never do anything right, so she might as well

continue to push my buttons even though she knew it made me mad.

It's their payoff. It's makes it all worthwhile for them.

So, I worked very hard at not reacting -- at not breaking. And, lo

and behold, over time the behavior stopped. If she doesn't get a

rise out of me, there's nothing to misbehave over.

And, I am more sane - more calm.

Carol

>

>

> No, I have never asked her why she is " ignorant. " She is not

ignorant.

>

> I tried to work with her, but I gave her MY schedule -- if I was

the babysitter, she needed to work around me. She used me by going

in early -- I work out of the house, I told her she could start at

4:00. Initially, she did. Then, she'd leave at 2:30 and 3 (the

baby really wasn't sleeping like she should have been). So, I

started working at a coffee shop and I'd get back when it was time

for me. If she went in at 3:30, I'd be back in time.

>

> Initially, she would post her hours on our calendar (for all of

two weeks), then it ws a secret. I figure I am the one doing her a

favor.

>

> Her plans always change --to be expected.

>

> Observe. If someone is continually late by an hour or so,

initially you are annoyed. But the second, third and fourth times

you on on notice. You know what to expect. I go about my

business. If they get to my home hours late and I am not there,

they can wait for me. If someone is not considerate enough to work

with you, go about your business.

>

> You cannot control her behavior. You are in control of your

reaction however.

>

> Her boyfriend will not pick up his cell if he sees it's my

number. Does it annoy me? Sure, i just want to speak with my

granddaughter. But I cannot change them.

>

> When your daughter needs something from you, she will call.

>

> Under no circumstances would I tell her she's ignorant (she is

probably a very bright person). It's o.k. to remind her " I trust

will do the right thing. "

>

> Caroll-------------- Original message --------------

>

> > Carol

> >

> > Have you ever come right out and asked her why she is " ignorant "

and doesn't

> > respond to your emails? When my daughter doesn't answer my calls

to her or

> > the messages I leave her, it annoys the heck oput of me. For

instance,

> > according to our agreement< I am supposed to see the boys Sat

and Wed. Well,

> > has soccer now on Sat. I asked her what time and she said

it changes.

> > I

> > told her I want his schedule so I can schedule my time as well.

For this

> > Sat, she asked if I could take them Sunday instead because she

wanted to take

> > them to a County Fair> I told her I have an OPen HOuse for real

estate on

> > Sunday and perhaps I could take them for the full day during the

week. She

> > whined

> > a bit and said to just take them Sat.

> >

> > I got home and realized the Open HOuse is 12-2. I called her

cell (not

> > allowed to call her land line becuase it is in her convict

hubby's name----not

> > that he works and pays for it and HE doesn't want me calling on

it). I left a

> > message saying she could have them Sat and I would take them

Sunday after my

> > Open House. Asked her to call me back and let me know if that

would work.

> > That was Thurs night around 8. By 10 on Friday still no answer.

I called

> > again. She didn't answer and didn't ret a 22nd and a third

message. Told her

> > I

> > needed to know so I could schedule MY days and if I didn't hear

from her by a

> > certain time, I would consider Sat to be my day with them. Case

closed. I

> > was trying to accomodate her and still I get crap!

> >

> > She called back a half hr after the time I gave her and saidm

her cell had

> > been dead. Bullsh--. Had it been dead it would have gone into VM

right away

> > and it didn't. If she REALLY does leave that phone in the car

most of the

> > day and night, I can see why she makes nothing in real estate.

She must never

> > answ her messages.

> >

> > But I am about to tell her that I really didn't raise her to be

ignorant and

> > would appreciate it if she remembered the manners she was

taught.

> >

> > Jean

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I think in many ways, we as parents are looked upon as the ones they

failed. When we criticize, even slightly, it is deeply personal to

our kids. And they can't pull the wool over our eyes like they can a

friend or someone who doesn't know their history. So they are more

vulnerable with us.

Yes, your daughter is probably trying to have that fantasy of the

perfect life. And with things as they are, I can't imagine that will

last.

All of this reminds me of that famous movie line from Jack Nicholson:

" You can't handle the truth!! "

Carolyn

> Carol

>

> Thanks for the insight. Quite honestly I wondered if this might

be the case

> and mentuined it to my son, who's response was, " why not just

start doing

> things right? " I often ask myself that same question.

>

> As I have mentioned before, my daughter has a 4 yr degree from an

excellent

> college here. When you mention the name of the college to most

business and

> professional people, their response is, " Oh, she can write her

own ticket

> now " . Yeah, right!!! Since she graduated, she has only

waitressed for years

> and then a couple of years ago got the real estate license

(commissions only

> and no paid benefits). A couple of years ago, while still

waitressing, she had

> had a good day tip wise and made quite a bit of money. She said

ro me,

> " aren't you proud of me? " . I said " yes " , but thought to myself,

what's to be

> proud of when you have a degree you refuse to use and you are

waitressing like

> someone with no degree or like she did as a part time job while

in college.

>

> Does my daughter think her choice of men and her stealing other

peoples'

> credit is going to get her respect and positive reinforcement

from anyone with

> any moral fiber? Is it really easier for them to just be screw

ups?

>

> So I will not react. Actually I don't react and tell her she is

lacking in

> mannners. I just fume to myself and to all you guys here.

>

> Jean

>

>

>