Re: Higher Armour doses deemed safe by Dr. Derry--READ MY REPLY

[Guest guest]

Hi . Dr. Derry is a fastastic guy. And I believe that when he

first mentioned the 3 grains, he was referring to the idea that

before the TSH came into existence, and when most folks were on

dessicated natural thyroid, the minimum dose was 3 grains.

Now what we don't know is if " 3 grains " then, was equivalent to " 3

grains " now thanks to more stringent guidelines about consistency.

BUT, his statement has interested us here for months, and several of

us raised our doses because of it!!

BUT (again), there is NO WAY we can encourage folks who come on here

to START on high doses. Why? Because there are some folks who come on

here VERY sick. And starting right out on a high dose is disasterous

for them. It could be that their adrenals are useless. Or, it could

be that since they've been sick SO long, that their bodies simply

overreact to the T3.

Or...like me. I have Mitral Valve Prolapse, aka MVP. That means that

I have a floppy valve. When I started on Armour with it's direct T3,

it initially caused my palps to greatly increase. And....each

increase, no matter how small, caused the same thing. So it turned

out to be crucial to start on a small dose!

Or... you can have someone new here who has a monstrously low

Ferritin. And starting on a high dose can cause scary hyper symptoms.

Now, on the other side of the coin, this doesn't mean that no one

here can NOT start out on a higher dose. Several may!! But we can't

discern that, and we can't encourage it.

ADDITIONALLY, if you start on a small dose, we are definitely NOT

saying it works to stay on that small dose for long. If you do (and

it seems to be around 3-4 weeks), you will have some hypo symptoms

return with a vengeance. SO once you start on a small dose, and

everything seems to be great, you can decide to start moving up

fairly slowly or quickly, but WISELY.

Also, there DO SEEM TO BE SOME FOLKS whose optimal dose is NOT higher

than 2 grains!!! And they don't know it unless they rise CAREFULLY. I

watched a guy on another thyroid site go up and up and up until he

found himself at 6 grains and VERY hyper!! He wasn't prudent OR wise.

So the final comment would be this: once you start on a lower dose,

and once you start moving up safely, and give the higher doses (such

as over 2 grains) time to build in your body, you may be able to

experiment going a bit higher. I did. I went from 2 1/4 grains to 3.

And, its VERY important to make sure that your FERRITIN is optimized,

too. And..some may need strong adrenal support.

Does that make sense??

Janie aka ThyroDiva

> I have a question for y'all . According to Dr. Derry, he claimes

> that any thyroid dosage under 3 grains is considered inefficient.

This

> is very interesting because as I keep increasing my dosages, I get

> better briefly and then slip back into hypo

> Why the heck are we starting out at such low doses then?

[Guest guest]

Great comments Janie... I'd like to add... it might be wise for those

that feel that they need to increase their dose that they should add the

addition as an afternoon dose... since many of us seem to have the mid

afternoon slump....

I'm one of the folks that have had to be very careful with dosage

increases.... from when I first started on Synthroid 6 months after my

RAI... when I started on Naturals my increase were 6 to 8 weeks apart..

and for one increase I waited 12 weeks... then I added adrenal support

and the increase felt okay to do at 6 weeks again.

Each of us is very different and there is no way to tell if you are

someone that can increase as rapidly as 3 weeks or need to wait the 4 to

6 that it takes the T4 to build up in your system...

So, as Janie said, make your adjustments wisely and if in doubt share

your observations here.. it's much easier for others to spot things that

it is for you to see it in yourself... I've had to rely on the

observations of others a couple of times, sharing my symptoms here in the

groups, so that others might spot what I was missing... In every case

others saw something that I did not.. I made that adjustment and it was

right on!

We're all here to help each other and there is no greater resource then

to tap into the minds of all those who are here.....

Topper ()

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:42:21 -0000 " loboshe " writes:

> Hi . Dr. Derry is a fastastic guy. And I believe that when he

> first mentioned the 3 grains, he was referring to the idea that

> before the TSH came into existence, and when most folks were on

> dessicated natural thyroid, the minimum dose was 3 grains.

> Now what we don't know is if " 3 grains " then, was equivalent to " 3

> grains " now thanks to more stringent guidelines about consistency.

> BUT, his statement has interested us here for months, and several of

> us raised our doses because of it!!

> BUT (again), there is NO WAY we can encourage folks who come on here

> to START on high doses. Why? Because there are some folks who come

> on here VERY sick. And starting right out on a high dose is disasterous

> for them. It could be that their adrenals are useless. Or, it could

> be that since they've been sick SO long, that their bodies simply

> overreact to the T3.

> Or...like me. I have Mitral Valve Prolapse, aka MVP. That means that

> I have a floppy valve. When I started on Armour with it's direct T3,

> it initially caused my palps to greatly increase. And....each

> increase, no matter how small, caused the same thing. So it turned

> out to be crucial to start on a small dose!

> Or... you can have someone new here who has a monstrously low

> Ferritin. And starting on a high dose can cause scary hyper symptoms.

> Now, on the other side of the coin, this doesn't mean that no one

> here can NOT start out on a higher dose. Several may!! But we can't

> discern that, and we can't encourage it.

> ADDITIONALLY, if you start on a small dose, we are definitely NOT

> saying it works to stay on that small dose for long. If you do (and

> it seems to be around 3-4 weeks), you will have some hypo symptoms

> return with a vengeance. SO once you start on a small dose, and

> everything seems to be great, you can decide to start moving up

> fairly slowly or quickly, but WISELY.

> Also, there DO SEEM TO BE SOME FOLKS whose optimal dose is NOT

> higher

> than 2 grains!!! And they don't know it unless they rise CAREFULLY.

> I watched a guy on another thyroid site go up and up and up until he

> found himself at 6 grains and VERY hyper!! He wasn't prudent OR

> wise.

> So the final comment would be this: once you start on a lower dose,

> and once you start moving up safely, and give the higher doses (such

> as over 2 grains) time to build in your body, you may be able to

> experiment going a bit higher. I did. I went from 2 1/4 grains to 3.

> And, its VERY important to make sure that your FERRITIN is

> optimized, too. And..some may need strong adrenal support.

> Does that make sense??

> Janie aka ThyroDiva

[Guest guest]

> Hi . Dr. Derry is a fastastic guy. And I believe that when he

> first mentioned the 3 grains, he was referring to the idea that

> before the TSH came into existence, and when most folks were on

> dessicated natural thyroid, the minimum dose was 3 grains.

I thought about that Janie, yet Dr. Derry still claims that even with

the dessicated hormone today, that 3 grains is approx. a good starting

point. I believe that many may benefit from less (we are all

different). So I understand you dissuading people from starting high.

I too have MVP or SVT (diagnosed differently by two cardiologists - go

figure), so going slow has been a concern for me too. I don't want to

get people all excited about increasing their meds, but just to keep

it in the back of the mind that 3 grains might be a good goal to

eliminate all symptoms etc... Hope you're not mad at my post.

Also, concerning adrenals, Dr, Derry believes with the high starting

dose, that the adrenals should rise along with the thyroid. What do

you think of that? Just curious. I am still taking my adrenal support

anyway .

I just got excited because I have been having a very hard time getting

better. Everyone keeps asking me how I am feeling and I just don't

have any positive stuff to say and they all think I am a complaining

hypochondriac. The readings on Dr. Derry have provided me tremendous

relief and hope in knowing that what I am currently on right now is

probably not sufficient enough to rid me of all my hypo symptoms.

ANyway, I just thought his protocol was/is thought provoking and

inspirational for all of us that are suffering with the crappy

symptoms that come with being hypo.

[Guest guest]

Oh no, ! I'm not mad at your post! It's a great discussion. I

just want you and everyone to understand why it can't be recommended

to ANYONE to " start " on such a high dose.

And, if Derry states anywhere to START on 3 grains, he's off base,

no matter how much I respect him. (Can you provide the exact link to

a site that shows he is saying that? I didn't see it in the links

you provided before---did I miss it?)

But if he says that 3 grains is the " minimum dose " that folks used

to be on to start eliminating symptoms, he can be accurate for most

folks (but now all).

The beauty of what he says is that you are OK if you need more

Armour to relieve yourself of symptoms!!

Adrenal support is a tricky one. It's an unknown and it's SO

individual. I, for example, don't seem to need adrenal support, and

you would think I would considering how MISERABLE my adrenal

reactions were when I was on T4-only meds. But I do use DHEA and

testosterone in a gel---perhaps that does it for me!!

Janie

> I thought about that Janie, yet Dr. Derry still claims that even

with

> the dessicated hormone today, that 3 grains is approx. a good

starting

> point. I believe that many may benefit from less (we are all

> different). So I understand you dissuading people from starting

high.