Higher Armour doses deemed safe by Dr. Derry - For Janie:)

[Guest guest]

Hi Janie,

Here is one quote: " Usually with desiccated thyroid (Armour) the

brain fog and accompanying personality difficulties will lift early in

a treatment regime with adequate thyroid. By early I mean within a few

weeks. Any dose of thyroid extract below 180 mg is unlikely to work at

all for someone in your condition (this person had CFS). Clinicians

even in the 1960s used history taking, clinical examination along with

laboratory tests and rarely found that a dose below 180 mg had any

effect at all. "

Here's another: " The real problem of why you are not responding is

related to the dosage of thyroid you are taking (Woman with hairloss

and only on 50 mcg of synthroid). This dosage will not help your hair

or you at all. In the 1960s it was textbook material after 70 years of

experience using thyroid that a dose below 180 mg of desiccated

thyroid could not be measured clinically or in the laboratory. In

other words it was without effect.(2) The approximate equivalent dose

of synthroid or thyroxine (T4) would be about 180 micrograms.(3)

So unless your dose is above 180 there is little chance of regaining

your hair back and the problem likely continue and get worse. You can

tell when you are approaching the right dose personally when the

itching starts to go away permanently. Depending on how old you are

and other medical history it is likely though you would get complete

relief with a dosage up around 200 micrograms of Synthroid or higher.

We know that there are no side effects at those dosages. Dosages of

thyroxine (Synthroid, T4) of up to 300 micrograms are without

morbidity or mortality. (no sickness or deaths). "

Most of his answers to patients keep saying this same thing. Really,

it make total sense to me. For instance, I was given 75 mcg of

synthroid. At that level, I felt horrible. I thought My heart palps,

high anxiety etc... were related to hyper symptoms. What if, if Dr.

Derry is 100% correct in what he is saying, that the 75 mcg was way

too little a dose for me to shut off the imflammatory process of my

Hashi's, and the dose of synthroid was actually less that what I was

already producing naturally? I found it quite odd that after starting

thyroid treatment that I actually got worse than I already was.

Everyone kept saying that my adrenals were to blame, yet I have been

taking adrenals since Feb. 9th (with a very short break) and have

really seen no improvement with them. Now I am up to 1 1/2 grains of

Armour, which is 1 1/2 times the amount of the 75 mcg of Synthroid

that made me feel even worse. Dr. Derry states that once thyroid

hormone is begun, it's supposed to be a process of shutting off the

dysfunstional thyroid so to speak and letting the thryoid dose take

over and restore proper thyroid functions and levels. What do you

think? Here is a tad of this same theory (I hope I have re-iterated in

the same fashion).

" If the cause of your long standing hypothyroidism was Hashimoto's

there is a real chance your sequence of events you described could

happen (patient went from hypo to hyper supposedly). You didn't say

what your dose of Synthroid was but the intention of treatment is to

give you enough thyroid to not only make you feel well but also calm

the inflammatory process in the thyroid. If the dose is not adequate

the thyroid is not turned off and so the smoldering inflammatory

process in your thyroid can still sputter on. In which case it is

possible for you to become hyperthyroid. However this is not common

and most times it is transitory. That is the hyperthyroidism will die

off by itself. "

He explains this shutting off process (with adequate thyroid hormone)

better in another read, but I can't find it right now. I will look for it.

[Guest guest]

, thanks for sending those quotes! I now know what you have!

It's what we talked about here a few months ago and was so

inspiring! He's great, isn't he? I'm always glad to see him

mentioned here.

And do note that he is not saying to START on 3 grains. He's just

saying that for many folks, symptoms are not relieved until they get

up to at least 3 grains.

Yes, in most folks, T4 will not stop the inflammation of Hashi's,

and neither will lower amounts of Armour! Even the Lowe's in

Boulder have noted that folks have to take enough of Armour to

suppress the TSH, which in turn is the only way to really stop the

Hashi's.

You are experiencing a lightbulb moment today, !! Yes, you

would feel worse on 75 mcg Synthroid, and on your lower dosing of

Armour, because it is less than what you need! That's why we tell

folks it can be wise to NOT stay on a starting dose more than 3-4

weeks. The reason: when you start on Armour, your pituitary gland

senses the introduction of the thyroid hormones. It then, via the

TSH, sends a message to your thyroid to reduce it's production (to

prevent TOO much thyroid hormones). BUT, the pituitary gland does

NOT know that the thyroid is diseased----that the thyroid is already

producing way too little. So when the thyroid reduces it's

production, you are left with even LESS thyroid hormones, even with

the introduction of the Armour (or the amount of T4 you were on!)

So.... you feel worse.

Like me, you may not need adrenal support. What you may need to do

is raise your Armour more. The closer you get to your optimal dose,

the less your adrenals may freak out. That's certainly what happened

to me.

, when I was on T4 meds, I had a horrific adrenal reaction to

ANY kind of exercise, movement, or activity. And I mean HORRIFIC and

debilitating. After an activity, my heart would pound in my chest

for hours. I would become quite hot, and my fatigue would be so

profound, it was almost nauseating. I would go to bed, only to have

an increase in my heart pounding. I would sweat profusely. I would

be quite hot. And the fatigue is hard, hard to describe. 17 years of

this. Miserable years.

When I started on Armour, even BEFORE I reached my current optimal

dose, it totally stopped. I don't do adrenal support, though I do

use testosterone and DHEA.

You are on your way, too, !! (and it may be time for you to

raise your Armour dose...again, and once again....)

Janie aka ThyroDiva

> it make total sense to me. For instance, I was given 75 mcg of

> synthroid. At that level, I felt horrible. I thought My heart

palps,

> high anxiety etc... were related to hyper symptoms. What if, if Dr.

> Derry is 100% correct in what he is saying, that the 75 mcg was way

> too little a dose for me to shut off the imflammatory process of my

> Hashi's, and the dose of synthroid was actually less that what I

was

> already producing naturally? I found it quite odd that after

starting

> thyroid treatment that I actually got worse than I already was.

> Everyone kept saying that my adrenals were to blame, yet I have

been

> taking adrenals since Feb. 9th (with a very short break) and have

> really seen no improvement with them. Now I am up to 1 1/2 grains

of

> Armour,

[Guest guest]

> And do note that he is not saying to START on 3 grains. He's just

> saying that for many folks, symptoms are not relieved until they get

> up to at least 3 grains.

Ahhhh, okay. That makes sense. Perhaps some folk can start at a higher

thryoid dose and get there quicker .

Yes, I really did have a light-bulb moment. It actually feels great to

know that I really do hold my health and destiny in my own hands for

the most part. This constant research has given me great hope and

confidence in my personal journey back to good health and quality of

life. I have been able to get back to doing some of the things I was

doing before the hypo crash since upping my dose to 1 1/2 from 1

grain. This I may give credit to you also because you mentioned that I

could probably jump from just a 1/4 grain to 1/2 (I was sliding back

into hypo and it was panicking me). My temps are now back up to normal

and I have had a few heart jitters, but nothing that is scaring me

from continuing my current dose. I just feel like I can't look back

now. I am going to give this new dose a coupl more weeks and see how I

feel etcc... I might be upping another 1/4 grain if need be.

I have also come to the realization that I may have to self-dose from

now on. Since moving to Canada, there are literally no physicians in a

60 mile radius accepting new patients. The waiting list is long and is

approx. 2 years. When i called local doctors to find this out, they

told me to go to the ER - FOR EVERYTHING! This is very scary to me! I

don't know what has happened to the Canadian medical system since I

left 12+ years ago, but I don't like it.

[Guest guest]

As usual I haven't been keeping up here but just passing through on

my way out the door this morning. Wanted to mention that I am

currently on 6 grains of Armour orally and my energy is better than

it has been in a long time. Not 100% by any means but definately

better. I really believe that once I get my allergy and sinus

problems under control I will be doing much better. Have an

appoinment with my new allergist in two weeks. Also, the top doc Dr.

Odom I saw pushes the TSH to BELOW .01 in many cases in order for his

patients to really feel well. Hugs, Carol B

[Guest guest]

This is one reason why I am strongly opposed to any sort of national

health care for the US. That and the higher taxes needed to pay for

it. If I remember right the UK has a 15% sales tax on everything and

Sweden's is 25%. Not to mention the high income tax rates. In the UK

gas is about $4 a gallon. Approx $3 of that is tax and surcharges.

Phooey - I'll take my lower tax rates. (Note - for low income people,

yes the government should step in and help but not for the whole

country.)

Louise

>

>

> I have also come to the realization that I may have to self-dose

from

> now on. Since moving to Canada, there are literally no physicians

in a

> 60 mile radius accepting new patients. The waiting list is long and

is

> approx. 2 years. When i called local doctors to find this out, they

> told me to go to the ER - FOR EVERYTHING! This is very scary to me!

I

> don't know what has happened to the Canadian medical system since I

> left 12+ years ago, but I don't like it.

>

>