Re:There is help available

[Guest guest]

Dear dben8

I will try the AlaNon, but not the serenity prayer. After going to a

Christian counselor by myself and then with my daughter for joint counseling, I

have had it with God and prayer. This counselor, who is the pastor also, of an

Evangelical church made it seem like I was the nut and Krisitn was ok. That

it was ok for her not to want a relationship with me, that it was ok for her

to treat me as she does, that it was ok for her to be married to and exposing

her children to a lifelong felon. She said that Krisitn is " probably what

he needs to turn his life around " The last thing my daughter needed to hear.

She has enough trouble taking care of herself and the kids, let alone

" raising " this guy with the emotional maturity and life experience of a 14 yr

old

(when he was first incarcerated). I told this counselor how she has charged

up thousands of dollars on my elderly aunt's soc sec # and the counselor

didn't even bat an eyelash, said it would have to work itself out. Never told

Krisitn this was irresponsible or certainly not Christ like in any way. So, I

have had enough of God and his spokepeople. He doesn't answer any of my

prayers and I doubt his existence at all.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean:

You spoke about getting some kind of counseling. I would heartily suggest that

you run.........not walk to an Al-anon meeting. In their opening statement at

every meeting it speaks of " our lives being unmanageable " . All you have to do

is to substitute mental illness for alcoholism.

It would be healthier for you to get your mind off of your BP daughter and onto

anything else. I know it is easier said than done and it does not come

overnight. Al-anon uses slogans such as " One day at a time " etc. They are

simple but helpful. It was at those meetings that I learned to detach and get

rid of my anger. The Serenity Prayer is also simple but extremely powerful.

dben8

---------------------------------

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

[Guest guest]

Dot

How do I find a GOOD Chrisitan counselor? I would really like to feel God's

presence in my life, but that counselor had prayed for me and since then I

have felt worse. I am to the point of being an aetheist !!!!! I feel like if

there is a God, then he taakes pleasure in kicking me around too.

When we went to the counselor together, Krisitn seemed to be " high " on God.

Yet is rotten to me, runs up all this debt on my aunt (tht she has told me

she is not paying), is certainly not acting in a Christian or Godlike manner

(from my perspective). Perhaps, living kindly and morally is NOT part of

being Chrisitan these days? Because that is how I felt with this

pastor/counselor. Do they not advocate wholesomeness and accountability (you

reap what you

sow) anymore?

Jean

[Guest guest]

Dot

Let me show my stupidity. What are the " Core Needs " ?

Jean

[Guest guest]

I felt like that recently too. But a Christian counselor prayed for me in a

session of healing prayer recently to specifically take the pain, bruising and

abuse in my heart from years and years of emotional abuse by my daughter. God

took the pain away and for a week now, I know the sting is gone. I was able to

forgive her for all the hurt. And out of the blue ............that night she

called me. Go figure?

skj

Re: Re:There is help available

Dear dben8

I will try the AlaNon, but not the serenity prayer. After going to a

Christian counselor by myself and then with my daughter for joint counseling,

I

have had it with God and prayer. This counselor, who is the pastor also, of

an

Evangelical church made it seem like I was the nut and Krisitn was ok. That

it was ok for her not to want a relationship with me, that it was ok for her

to treat me as she does, that it was ok for her to be married to and exposing

her children to a lifelong felon. She said that Krisitn is " probably what

he needs to turn his life around " The last thing my daughter needed to hear.

She has enough trouble taking care of herself and the kids, let alone

" raising " this guy with the emotional maturity and life experience of a 14 yr

old

(when he was first incarcerated). I told this counselor how she has charged

up thousands of dollars on my elderly aunt's soc sec # and the counselor

didn't even bat an eyelash, said it would have to work itself out. Never told

Krisitn this was irresponsible or certainly not Christ like in any way. So,

I

have had enough of God and his spokepeople. He doesn't answer any of my

prayers and I doubt his existence at all.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean

Just because you had a very negative experience with a Christian counselor

doesn't mean they are all bad. As a matter of fact, the counselor I see is

a Christian and that aspect of the counseling is very helpful to me.

I think where the problem comes in is where you say that this counselor was

a pastor also. Doesn't sound like they had any bona fide counseling

training and/or experience. It has been my experience that most pastors are

very ignorant of the sort of mental health issues we discuss on this forum.

Not only are they ignorant, but they tend to feel that you just need to

" love " your daughter more. What a crock!

A couple of the counselors I've had that were in the ministry as pastors, or

whatever, joined with my daughter (and at that time, my husband) in blaming

me. They don't lack empathy, but understanding of real mental health

issues.

For me personally, the aspect of combining my personal faith with the

counseling experience has been all that I could ask for and more.

Dot

_____

From: WTOParentsOfBPs

[mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of cascorsam@...

Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 3:04 AM

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: Re: Re:There is help available

Dear dben8

I will try the AlaNon, but not the serenity prayer. After going to a

Christian counselor by myself and then with my daughter for joint

counseling, I

have had it with God and prayer. This counselor, who is the pastor also,

of an

Evangelical church made it seem like I was the nut and Krisitn was ok.

That

it was ok for her not to want a relationship with me, that it was ok for

her

to treat me as she does, that it was ok for her to be married to and

exposing

her children to a lifelong felon. She said that Krisitn is " probably what

he needs to turn his life around " The last thing my daughter needed to

hear.

She has enough trouble taking care of herself and the kids, let alone

" raising " this guy with the emotional maturity and life experience of a 14

yr old

(when he was first incarcerated). I told this counselor how she has

charged

up thousands of dollars on my elderly aunt's soc sec # and the counselor

didn't even bat an eyelash, said it would have to work itself out. Never

told

Krisitn this was irresponsible or certainly not Christ like in any way.

So, I

have had enough of God and his spokepeople. He doesn't answer any of my

prayers and I doubt his existence at all.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean

Finding a good Christian counselor CAN be difficult. TBH, I had to do a lot

of searching before I located one that I felt comfortable with. I will tell

you that I did a lot of praying to find the right person - not hour long

prayers or anything nuts like that, but short one liners.

For a long time (months?) I felt like God was ignoring my prayers and I made

a lot of calls, saw people that I found out I despised because they blamed

me, that sort of thing.

But, I didn't give up.

I truly believe that the Bible adage is true: those who seek shall find.

Of course, it DOESN'T say how long you have to seek before you'll find. It

has been my experience in my own personal faith that God's time table and

mine rarely coincide and that He answers prayers in a way other than what I

am looking for. I found that last part to be particularly irking! I mean,

since I had it " all figured out " the way He should move, how come He didn't

act that way?

The answer is fairly obvious - my " figuring it out " wasn't solving the

problem! Therefore, I had to be open to new and innovative things. This is

a real pain in the butt aspect of Christianity. Sometimes we have to knock

our head against the wall over and over and over again before we become open

to a solution other than what we think is best.

And, often I find that God perceives relationships and the CORE NEEDS much

differently than I do, and thus, His responses deal with those issues first,

because until the core issues are dealt with, we can't deal with the

external aspects of our problems.

So back to how do you find a GOOD Christian counselor? I don't know where

you live, but contacting the Minirth-Meyer clinics is a good place to start.

You can go on-line to find them. They are an EXCELLENT Christian counseling

group, who are real, live, trained counselors who are also Christians. They

should be able to point you towards other resources. Unless you live in a

large metropolitan area, the M-M clinics will probably not be around, but

you can find them and see where they suggest you go.

Also, the very best way to find someone in your area is to ask questions,

questions and more questions. As you are a real estate person, you well

know the key to selling is location, location, locations. The same is true

with mental health. Like I mentioned earlier, contact your local NAMI

group. I was surprised to find one in my area, as I live in a rather small

town. Specifically ask them (there should be a rep and area contact) about

GOOD Christian counselors and who they would recommend.

Once they make a couple recommendations, DON'T take their word for it! I

know, it sounds contradictory, but to find a person who truly meets your

needs, you must ask more questions, questions, questions. Don't be afraid

to be pushy or to accept an " all our counselors deal with bp " because it's

not true.

But again, your local NAMI is a great place to start. Someone else

mentioned Al-Anon. Another good place to start. But remember, if you don't

ask and don't check, you won't find the life changing counseling that you

(and many of us) need, and you'll end up writing post after post after post

wondering about , when you could be taking care of yourself instead.

It is MHO that you will not find peace in your relationship with

until you find peace within yourself first.

Dot

_____

From: WTOParentsOfBPs

[mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of cascorsam@...

Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 10:38 AM

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: Re: Re:There is help available

Dot

How do I find a GOOD Chrisitan counselor? I would really like to feel

God's

presence in my life, but that counselor had prayed for me and since then I

have felt worse. I am to the point of being an aetheist !!!!! I feel like

if

there is a God, then he taakes pleasure in kicking me around too.

When we went to the counselor together, Krisitn seemed to be " high " on God.

Yet is rotten to me, runs up all this debt on my aunt (tht she has told me

she is not paying), is certainly not acting in a Christian or Godlike

manner

(from my perspective). Perhaps, living kindly and morally is NOT part of

being Chrisitan these days? Because that is how I felt with this

pastor/counselor. Do they not advocate wholesomeness and accountability

(you reap what you

sow) anymore?

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean

No question is stupid!!!

Core needs, in my estimation, are the needs that drive us as individuals.

For example, you express a deeply felt need to " understand " 's

motivations. However, that is NOT your real need, or core need. IMHO, your

core need is to first find someone who can help you deal with the bitterness

and anger and hatred you experience on a daily basis.

See, in life it doesn't really matter whether we understand another person

or not. What our core need is, the basic need is, is to come to peace with

ourselves, with our failings and triumphs and how we perceive the world.

When we come to the point where we are at peace with ourselves, THEN we find

that we can accept others in both their good and ugly points as well.

I know it seems contradictory - that if we're having a problem with someone,

we have to figure out why and resolve that issue. But, in life, we cannot

understand others until we understand ourselves. It is through the

acceptance of self that we find we can extend acceptance to others. It is

not an easy road, but I believe one that is necessary in order for all of us

to understand the world in which we live and the folks who inhabit that

world.

Other " core " needs are love, acceptance and forgiveness. But, as always,

they must start with you. You must learn to love yourself, accept who you

are, and forgive yourself for who you're not. That's a tall order for

anyone! When you are able to let go of the bitterness and anger, which eats

at your very soul, and embrace yourself, then you have something to give to

another person.

And, one last thing. Acceptance, forgiveness and love of self will change

your view of others. All change begins from the inside out, and any change

in your relationship with will happen the same way. As you well

know, you can't change her, but you CAN change yourself and how you view

her. It is a journey, but dare to take the road less traveled.

Dot

_____

From: WTOParentsOfBPs

[mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of cascorsam@...

Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 11:13 AM

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: Re: Re:There is help available

Dot

Let me show my stupidity. What are the " Core Needs " ?

Jean

[Guest guest]

I just read your post and Dot's response and I completely agree with

her.

Holding anger and bitterness inside of you is self-destructive and

will make your heart and body sick. You must let go of these

emotions in order to get yourself centered and back on track in your

life.

Forgive your daughter -- even though she has not apologized, even

though she continues to act in a nasty way. Forgive and let go of

your anger and torment. And forgive yourself, for any acts or

omissions on your part which have contributed to the poor

relationship you have with her. I am not saying you should open

yourself up to her abuse any more. But when you let go of the anger

you hold inside you also diminish the power she has over you.

When you change your thoughts, you change your world. Prayer and

lots of time spent in forgiveness and contemplation will help,

although sometimes it takes quite a while. I hope you are able to

find a good Christian counselor to help you work through this.

Carolyn

> Jean

>

>

>

> Finding a good Christian counselor CAN be difficult. TBH, I had

to do a lot

> of searching before I located one that I felt comfortable with. I

will tell

> you that I did a lot of praying to find the right person - not

hour long

> prayers or anything nuts like that, but short one liners.

>

>

>

> For a long time (months?) I felt like God was ignoring my prayers

and I made

> a lot of calls, saw people that I found out I despised because

they blamed

> me, that sort of thing.

>

>

>

> But, I didn't give up.

>

>

>

> I truly believe that the Bible adage is true: those who seek

shall find.

> Of course, it DOESN'T say how long you have to seek before you'll

find. It

> has been my experience in my own personal faith that God's time

table and

> mine rarely coincide and that He answers prayers in a way other

than what I

> am looking for. I found that last part to be particularly

irking! I mean,

> since I had it " all figured out " the way He should move, how come

He didn't

> act that way?

>

>

>

> The answer is fairly obvious - my " figuring it out " wasn't solving

the

> problem! Therefore, I had to be open to new and innovative

things. This is

> a real pain in the butt aspect of Christianity. Sometimes we have

to knock

> our head against the wall over and over and over again before we

become open

> to a solution other than what we think is best.

>

>

>

> And, often I find that God perceives relationships and the CORE

NEEDS much

> differently than I do, and thus, His responses deal with those

issues first,

> because until the core issues are dealt with, we can't deal with

the

> external aspects of our problems.

>

>

>

> So back to how do you find a GOOD Christian counselor? I don't

know where

> you live, but contacting the Minirth-Meyer clinics is a good place

to start.

> You can go on-line to find them. They are an EXCELLENT Christian

counseling

> group, who are real, live, trained counselors who are also

Christians. They

> should be able to point you towards other resources. Unless you

live in a

> large metropolitan area, the M-M clinics will probably not be

around, but

> you can find them and see where they suggest you go.

>

>

>

> Also, the very best way to find someone in your area is to ask

questions,

> questions and more questions. As you are a real estate person,

you well

> know the key to selling is location, location, locations. The

same is true

> with mental health. Like I mentioned earlier, contact your local

NAMI

> group. I was surprised to find one in my area, as I live in a

rather small

> town. Specifically ask them (there should be a rep and area

contact) about

> GOOD Christian counselors and who they would recommend.

>

>

>

> Once they make a couple recommendations, DON'T take their word for

it! I

> know, it sounds contradictory, but to find a person who truly

meets your

> needs, you must ask more questions, questions, questions. Don't

be afraid

> to be pushy or to accept an " all our counselors deal with bp "

because it's

> not true.

>

>

>

> But again, your local NAMI is a great place to start. Someone else

> mentioned Al-Anon. Another good place to start. But remember, if

you don't

> ask and don't check, you won't find the life changing counseling

that you

> (and many of us) need, and you'll end up writing post after post

after post

> wondering about , when you could be taking care of

yourself instead.

> It is MHO that you will not find peace in your relationship with

> until you find peace within yourself first.

>

>

>

> Dot

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: WTOParentsOfBPs

> [mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of

cascorsam@a...

> Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 10:38 AM

> To: WTOParentsOfBPs

> Subject: Re: Re:There is help available

>

>

>

> Dot

>

> How do I find a GOOD Chrisitan counselor? I would really like to

feel

> God's

> presence in my life, but that counselor had prayed for me and

since then I

> have felt worse. I am to the point of being an aetheist !!!!! I

feel like

> if

> there is a God, then he taakes pleasure in kicking me around too.

>

> When we went to the counselor together, Krisitn seemed to

be " high " on God.

>

> Yet is rotten to me, runs up all this debt on my aunt (tht she

has told me

> she is not paying), is certainly not acting in a Christian or

Godlike

> manner

> (from my perspective). Perhaps, living kindly and morally is NOT

part of

> being Chrisitan these days? Because that is how I felt with this

> pastor/counselor. Do they not advocate wholesomeness and

accountability

> (you reap what you

> sow) anymore?

>

> Jean

>

>

>