Re: temps going mad......

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/05/2007 14:40:43 GMT Daylight Time,

smann writes:

I say that I would not dose it every 4 hours cause I would have palps and

manic tendencies taking that much so close together. I did take that much

last year but this year my body is responding to T3 well. What brand are

you using?

I am not having palps YET today and I took my first dose at 7.15 am and

second dose 4 hours later.

The palps will probably arrive later.

I don't feel manic or anything like that at all. My head is a bit clearer is

all I can notice.

Cynomel is what I am taking.

Mo

www.NOVACounselling.com

[Guest guest]

Hello

I just thought your dose was too high cause I cannot tolerate that high a

dose myself. I probably should not have said that. Maybe it is too low a

dose for you. Do you have Hashis? How much do you weigh?

We are all different as we discover on this list every day I suppose.

No I don't have Hashis, I don't think I do anyway.I asked for TWO antibody

tests when my GP first tested me and he only did one so I am not 100% positive.

If you are clear of palps at bedtime due to not taking T3, then it IS the T3

dose that is giving you palps, so I would cut the dose.

Yes but it is only happening when I raise so Val's theory could be correct

in that the T3 is lowering my TSH and making me more hypo? How would cutting

the dose help? I need to get out of hypo hell. If a lower dose did not work

before, why would it work now. This is what happened to you wasn't it, a higher

dose did not work and then a lower doswe did? Why was that?

But I don't have

that much experience with thyroid stuff. It just makes sense to me that

palps with high dose T3 means too much T3.

I had palps with low dose T3 also you see. BUT only on raises.

However, if dosing once a day

works for you, perhaps you have a slow metabolism that allows the T3 to stay

with you longer. I don't know.

Twice a day is what I am doing .

My bottle label says not to exceed 120 mcg per day. (Sorry I thought it

said 90, my doc said he did not want me on over 90).

Ok, thanks for that, I am taking 125 right now so living dangerously, what's

new

www.NOVACounselling.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/05/2007 16:31:56 GMT Daylight Time,

smann writes:

Maybe you have a bad thermometer.

Always a possibility and I have one on order just in case, both

mercury.

Mo

www.NOVACounselling.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/05/2007 17:49:53 GMT Daylight Time,

nsndallas@... writes:

Just my 2 cents worth. I am not on T3 but am on Armour. I too get

palps when I have a dose increase. I have always just continued with

the increase & the palps go away after 7-10 days.

Hi Gail

And do you feel these palps are from adrenal stress Gail?

It is interesting to me that so few people on the list have responded to my

query re this so that must be saying that indeed it is really unusual to have

palps when making thyroid raises.

I assumed that nearly everyone had to do this, I have been believing that

for a couple of years now.

Mo

www.NOVACounselling.com

[Guest guest]

Mo:

I have never taken 100 mcg per day. That would cause palps for me all day.

People are of different sizes and metabolic types. I think your dose is too

high and I would not take it 4 times a day. From what my doc said and

reading about T3, it last 12 hours so if you are worried about not being

covered all day with T3, it is not like HC. I would dose your higher dose a

breakfast and a lower dose 8-12 hours later. Just my opinion.

If you are not taking any T4, your reverse T3 will be reduced every day you

are not taking the T4 or Armour. So you should be improving daily. The T3

is not making the rT3 diminish, the reduced T4 is. You can have both rT3

and T3 in your body at the same time, both being produced by T4.

Have you not improved at all? If your dose is too high it may be stressing

your adrenals. But more HC with a high dose T3 may not be the answer.

Reducing both may be.

And I do not use temps anymore. I know we are supposed to but I could never

correlate feeling better with any temp increase or decrease. I occasionally

do my morning temp just to see. But I have not correlated higher temp with

feeling better. But that is just me.

And I have never correlated higher dose Armour with feeling better. I felt

best at 2 grains a day but I blew it by increasing it to 3 then 4 and felt

worse each time and I was on HC.

So you just need to experiment and see what works for you.

When I see Val's high doses I cringe but if they work for her, that does not

mean they will work for me. The T3 meds I take say the highest does for

someone with an intact thyroid is 90 mcg per day. When I was on that level

last year I did not feel better. Now on 30 to 4-0 per day I am much

improved.

I am not saying I KNOW, I am just telling my experience.

Hope you feel better soon!

-- Re: temps going mad......

In a message dated 11/05/2007 03:10:18 GMT Daylight Time,

smann writes:

What about time of day dosing? I notice that I can double my morning dose

of T3 (to 40 mcg from 20) and be fine but in the afternoon or early evening

I get palps if I only take 20 mcg but am awake all night if I take more. I

don't often know if the palps are from low T or low HC and have to take 5 mg

HC to see if I improve and if not, more T3.

I found myself thinking exactly that thought last night. I mean about taking

a higher dose earlier in the day because it could well set my heart off

biog-time BUT it would be out of my system by bedtime.

I am taking 20, 20, 20, 20 since day before yesterday.

I read on Dr Lowe's site that he recommends (where there is cell resistance)

to take ALL of the daily amounts of T3 in the morning because he feels this

gives a surge that opens the receptors. He said yes there could be palps but

that they were nothing to worry about, not dangerous in any way.

Maybe I will take another 20 right now and see what happens, then 3rd dose

2pm of 40 also.

I am getting desperate.

Also I wonder if you know if the 100 mcgs I am now on is likely to be enough

to turn off the feedback loop.

It is about two weeks since I had my last piece of Armour and I am expecting

to be feeling better right now, not worse.

Thanks.

Mo

www.NOVACounselling.com

[Guest guest]

My emails keep getting cut off. I am referring to Armour doses making my

body create reverse T3. It sounds like most people here do not have that

problem. I think only 3 or 4 of us here have had the problem.

-- Re: temps going mad......

In a message dated 11/05/2007 03:10:23 GMT Daylight Time,

smann writes:

Isn't it interesting that I had what you are describing, but many people do

not have this problem with Armour?

May I ask what you are referring to here? thanks.

Mo

www.NOVACounselling.com

[Guest guest]

How much do you weigh Mo? I hear what Val is saying about your 100 mcg not

being enough but geez, my 30 has been plenty, with no HC.

My T3 is formulary so it may be stronger AND I am using the type that is

made to go under the tongue so I am getting every drop of that dose. My doc

was convinced I am not absorbing my meds throu my tummy well.

-- Re: temps going mad......

In a message dated 11/05/2007 03:10:18 GMT Daylight Time,

smann writes:

What about time of day dosing? I notice that I can double my morning dose

of T3 (to 40 mcg from 20) and be fine but in the afternoon or early evening

I get palps if I only take 20 mcg but am awake all night if I take more. I

don't often know if the palps are from low T or low HC and have to take 5 mg

HC to see if I improve and if not, more T3.

I found myself thinking exactly that thought last night. I mean about taking

a higher dose earlier in the day because it could well set my heart off

biog-time BUT it would be out of my system by bedtime.

I am taking 20, 20, 20, 20 since day before yesterday.

I read on Dr Lowe's site that he recommends (where there is cell resistance)

to take ALL of the daily amounts of T3 in the morning because he feels this

gives a surge that opens the receptors. He said yes there could be palps but

that they were nothing to worry about, not dangerous in any way.

Maybe I will take another 20 right now and see what happens, then 3rd dose

2pm of 40 also.

I am getting desperate.

Also I wonder if you know if the 100 mcgs I am now on is likely to be enough

to turn off the feedback loop.

It is about two weeks since I had my last piece of Armour and I am expecting

to be feeling better right now, not worse.

Thanks.

Mo

www.NOVACounselling.com

[Guest guest]

Maybe you have a bad thermometer.

-- Re: temps going mad......

In a message dated 11/05/2007 11:25:07 GMT Daylight Time,

artisticgroomer@... writes:

You are still losing the T4 from your system, and going MORE hypo from that.

I do nto think 100MCG is going to be eneough, and your temps confirm that.

Thanks Val, any idea WHY my temps. did not come up with this raise as with

others?

Mo

www.NOVACounselling.com

[Guest guest]

OK, I do not have antibodies. Mine is probably receptor blockade by Lyme

and mercury.

-- Re: temps going mad......

>>But your thyroid gland does not work at all, correct? Would the dose be

lower for people with intact thyroid glands? <<

WHY? Most of us have Hashi's and need full replacement, I beieve the

difference may be the amount of resistance I have, as I still had antibodies

a year ago I assume I still have SOME thyroid activity.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Well, if there is thyroid resistance or blockage of the receptors, I don't

know how you get them moving. Perhaps I need much less this year because I

did 50 hyperbaric treatments in the past 6months.

-- Re: temps going mad......

Hi again

The first time I used extended release T3 I had to take 90 mcgs a day due to

feeling hypo. Now I am fine on 40 to 50 or so mcg a day.

That seems really low to me but then this is all v. new to me.

I think you are

taking too much! Just my opinion. I would be having palps too and do.

I only get palps when making raises. Do you still think I am taking too

much?

I

accidentally took an extra 20 for my pm dose and had palps. Can you try

30-40 mcg in the morning and 20 12 hours later? You could use a 10 mcg

boost at lunch if you feel you need it.

I have never really come out of hypo, that's the thing. The only times I

have felt anything near to normal is when I make raises and then only for

maybe

one day or so.

So it is not really a question of maybe needing a boost at lunchtime for me,

it is a question of needing something radical to get body moving. I have

been virtually housebound for over a week now, (some of those days bedbound

mostly) maybe more because my brain goes south also and I lose track........

Mo

www.NOVACounselling.com

[Guest guest]

Mo:

I say that I would not dose it every 4 hours cause I would have palps and

manic tendencies taking that much so close together. I did take that much

last year but this year my body is responding to T3 well. What brand are

you using?

-- Re: temps going mad......

Hi again, again,

Are you saying you take 20 mcg of T3 every 4 or 5 hours?

No, what I did was take 50 mcg first dose and then 4/5 hours later another

50 mcg PLUS I added in an extra 12.5 so two doses totalling 112.5.

I dose twice a day

20 tp 40 mcg in the morning, depending on how i feel, and 20 in the

evening. I was using a 20 mcg of SR extended release T2 for the second 20

in the morning but my doc won't let me have both.

I would not take this T3 every 4 or 5 hours, thats just me.

You are frightening me now, do you want to say why?

Thanks.

Mo

www.NOVACounselling.com

[Guest guest]

Mo:

I just thought your dose was too high cause I cannot tolerate that high a

dose myself. I probably should not have said that. Maybe it is too low a

dose for you. Do you have Hashis? How much do you weigh?

If you are clear of palps at bedtime due to not taking T3, then it IS the T3

dose that is giving you palps, so I would cut the dose. But I don't have

that much experience with thyroid stuff. It just makes sense to me that

palps with high dose T3 means too much T3. However, if dosing once a day

works for you, perhaps you have a slow metabolism that allows the T3 to stay

with you longer. I don't know.

My bottle label says not to exceed 120 mcg per day. (Sorry I thought it

said 90, my doc said he did not want me on over 90).

-- Re: temps going mad......

Hi again

I have never taken 100 mcg per day. That would cause palps for me all day.

People are of different sizes and metabolic types. I think your dose is too

high and I would not take it 4 times a day.

Buy WHY do you think it is too high ? What is the reasoning behind

your statement? This is what I am trying to understand.

From what my doc said and

reading about T3, it last 12 hours so if you are worried about not being

covered all day with T3, it is not like HC. I would dose your higher dose a

breakfast and a lower dose 8-12 hours later. Just my opinion.

The problem is that I have palps from raising the T3. So if I do as

you suggest I will have sleep disruption from the palps. The reason I

decided

to go to twice a day is because of the 12 hours the T3 stays in the body. By

dosing twice a day, it means I am clear of the palps by bedtime. That is my

main focus for now. And if I can keep myself free of bed-time palps I am a

happy bunny as I get VERY debilitated by lack of sleep.

I understand that I need to be covered 24 hours by the T3 but for NOW, I

will settle for being able to make the necessary raises without twoo much

trauma

and THEN when I get where my temps and symptoms are improving, then I will

revert to spreading the T3 out over the course of the 24 hours. That is the

plan for now anyway.

If you are not taking any T4, your reverse T3 will be reduced every day you

are not taking the T4 or Armour. So you should be improving daily. The T3

is not making the rT3 diminish, the reduced T4 is. You can have both rT3

and T3 in your body at the same time, both being produced by T4.

Yes I understand this.

Have you not improved at all? If your dose is too high it may be stressing

your adrenals. But more HC with a high dose T3 may not be the answer.

Reducing both may be.

Yes I have improved and my temps have risen but they did not hold. Which

says 'more' to me. And I have been decreasing Armour at the same time so

almost

inevitable that I would keep swinging from feeling better to feeling worse I

think, don't you?

And I do not use temps anymore. I know we are supposed to but I could never

correlate feeling better with any temp increase or decrease. I occasionally

do my morning temp just to see. But I have not correlated higher temp with

feeling better. But that is just me.

Yes I have doubts about it but it is a case of suck it and see right now and

the temps. DO seem to be reflecting my condition lately.

And I have never correlated higher dose Armour with feeling better. I felt

best at 2 grains a day but I blew it by increasing it to 3 then 4 and felt

worse each time and I was on HC.

I felt at my best on 2 grains of Armour also but I was still a v. long way

from feeling well.

So you just need to experiment and see what works for you.

Yes that is what I am doing.

When I see Val's high doses I cringe but if they work for her, that does not

mean they will work for me. The T3 meds I take say the highest does for

someone with an intact thyroid is 90 mcg per day.

Where does it say this? On the patient information leaflet? I have not heard

of this before.

When I was on that level

last year I did not feel better. Now on 30 to 4-0 per day I am much

improved.

I am not saying I KNOW, I am just telling my experience.

Hope you feel better soon!

Hope so.......... watch this space!

Mo

www.NOVACounselling.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/05/2007 19:23:49 GMT Daylight Time,

dove.rose@... writes:

I notice the same thing; increased palps with increased thyroid dosage for a

few days, then everything goes back to normal.

Dove Rose

So there ARE afew of us out there but not many it seems. I always thought

most of us had to stress-dose through raises if we had adrenal issues.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

thanks for letting me know.

Mo

www.NOVACounselling.com

[Guest guest]

Mo,

Just my 2 cents worth. I am not on T3 but am on Armour. I too get

palps when I have a dose increase. I have always just continued with

the increase & the palps go away after 7-10 days.

Gale

[Guest guest]

>>Mo,

Just my 2 cents worth. I am not on T3 but am on Armour. I too get

palps when I have a dose increase. I have always just continued with

the increase & the palps go away after 7-10 days.>>

Gale:

I notice the same thing; increased palps with increased thyroid dosage for a few

days, then everything goes back to normal.

Dove Rose

[Guest guest]

Do you also get an increase in insomnia when you raise the dose? Les

Re: Re: temps going mad......

>>>Mo,

>

> Just my 2 cents worth. I am not on T3 but am on Armour. I too get

> palps when I have a dose increase. I have always just continued with

> the increase & the palps go away after 7-10 days.>>

>

> Gale:

>

> I notice the same thing; increased palps with increased thyroid dosage for

> a few days, then everything goes back to normal.

>

> Dove Rose

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mo,

I do not think that it is adrenal related. I just think that it is

how my body reacts. I do not have any signs of AF. If anything I

believe that I have high cortisone.

Gale

>

>

>

> In a message dated 12/05/2007 17:49:53 GMT Daylight Time,

> nsndallas@... writes:

>

> Just my 2 cents worth. I am not on T3 but am on Armour. I too get

> palps when I have a dose increase. I have always just continued with

> the increase & the palps go away after 7-10 days.

>

>

> Hi Gail

> And do you feel these palps are from adrenal stress Gail?

> It is interesting to me that so few people on the list have

responded to my

> query re this so that must be saying that indeed it is really

unusual to have

> palps when making thyroid raises.

> I assumed that nearly everyone had to do this, I have been believing

that

> for a couple of years now.

>

> Mo

>

> www.NOVACounselling.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have never gotten palps from an increase so far; I started with 1 grain and

raised by the 1/2 - 1 grain until I reached 3 grains and then raises were by 1/4

grain every few weeks and I am now at 5 grains.

C.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 13/05/2007 02:23:32 GMT Daylight Time,

cccquilter@... writes:

I have never gotten palps from an increase so far;

and you do have adrenal issues, don't you CC?

www.NOVACounselling.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 13/05/2007 02:25:54 GMT Daylight Time,

nsndallas@... writes:

I do not think that it is adrenal related. I just think that it is

how my body reacts. I do not have any signs of AF. If anything I

believe that I have high cortisone.

But high cortisol IS adrenal fatigue Gale!

Mo

www.NOVACounselling.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 16/05/2007 19:50:27 GMT Daylight Time,

lhensley@... writes:

How do I treat adrenal fatigue if my cortisol is already too high?

It is important to understand that ytour afternoon cortisol only goes high

as part of adrenal stress. It is an adapation process.

Treaitng adrenal fatigue enables your afternoon cortisol to normalise.

Mo

www.NOVACounselling.com

[Guest guest]

Re: Re: temps going mad......

In a message dated 13/05/2007 02:25:54 GMT Daylight Time,

nsndallas@... writes:

I do not think that it is adrenal related. I just think that it is

how my body reacts. I do not have any signs of AF. If anything I

believe that I have high cortisone.

But high cortisol IS adrenal fatigue Gale!

Mo

www.NOVACounselling.com

[Guest guest]

HELP! I am confused big time! I need someone to explain to me how having high

cortisol is a sign of adrenal fatigue. When I took my saliva test from Canary

Club it showed normal cortisol in the evening and at midnight, low in the

morning (when I would normally have been asleep anyway, since I sleep to about

11) and high cortisol in the afternoon. I thought this meant I didn't need to

take any cortisol and there had to be another reason for my fatigue. Now, Mo,

you are saying having high cortisol can be a sign one has adrenal fatigue

anyway? How do I treat adrenal fatigue if my cortisol is already too high? I am

taking Armour and it seems to be helping my fatigue (and dry skin), quite a bit.

I upped to 4 grains from 3 at Val's advice and thanks Val. That helped!

Hensley

Re: Re: temps going mad......

In a message dated 13/05/2007 02:25:54 GMT Daylight Time,

nsndallas@... writes:

I do not think that it is adrenal related. I just think that it is

how my body reacts. I do not have any signs of AF. If anything I

believe that I have high cortisone.

But high cortisol IS adrenal fatigue Gale!

Mo

www.NOVACounselling.com