Guest guest Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 I take Surmontil (also known as Rhotrimine) because it is one of the only two antidepressants that raise REM (dream) sleep instead of lowering it. This is because I have sleep apnea that happens in the REM sleep phases making me severely REM sleep deprived. It is impossible to stay sane without dream sleep. Before Surmontil, it took me a 4th of a bottle of l tryptophan a night and 16 hours to get enough sleep to avoid sleep deprivation caused migraines. I often had them 24/7. The Surmontil cut my sleep needs down to 11 to 12 hours and I can often get by with less. Since having two operations (throat and nose), and getting a CPAP Machine I was able to cut way back on the Surmontil but never have been able to eliminate it completely, and yes I do take magnesium and was on feverfew. It does not help the migraines any. To avoid temper tantrums and residual depression, I take 20 mg of Prozac too. The hashis is probably responsible for at least some of the obstructive sleep apnea. It causes the big, thick, fleshy throats that collapse and cut off the air ways. But I have central sleep apnea too, (My brain forgets to breath and that wakes me up out of many a nice dream). I'm blonde too! I wish it was just a joke! Unfortunately once one's throat is that big and thick, just going on Armour or some other thyroid med doesn't make the throat shrink or the sleep apnea go away, and sleep deprivation will big on depression BIG TIME. So, I would be in trouble even if I hadn't obviously inherited bad genes from my parents. I have learned to follow EVERYBODY'S advice to help myself. I stay prayed up. I get enough rest and avoid stress. I take nutritional supplements, Armour Thyroid and listen to relaxation tapes. I have people pray for me because there is some evidence prayer actually works. I also take prescription meds to help myself. It is like a three legged stool. I have learned if I fail to follow any of all this good advice, my moods tip over like a stool with only two legs. One of the theories for autism is that it is caused by a deficiency of a hormone called oxytocin. (Don't confuse this with the pain killer oxicontin). Oxytocin is produced by lactating Females. (My mother could not breast feed). It also causes the bond between Mother and Child, and Husband and Wife. I never bonded with my Mother and never felt the urge to pair up with a mate. The brain also needs it to be able to recognize other people. I am very face blind (prosopagnosia). Experiments with supplementing this hormone has helped Autistic people socially interact better with people better and helps Face Blind people do a better job of recognizing people, reading facial expressions and telling them apart, but alas, the effect lasts only a few minutes, and it has a terrible side effect, it makes people trust one another too much. Obviously before Humans found they could hire " wet nurses " and/or bottle feed, if you couldn't breast feed your offspring, he or she died. The huge numbers of autistic people (not all of them children), that our society seems to be producing lately may partially be caused by that. Autistic children just starved to death in earlier generations because their Mothers (quite often with Autistic tendencies themselves), could not feed them. Another factor is of course, if you are deficient in one hormone you are probably deficient in more than one of them. Lack of thyroid causes low body temperatures and the inability to run a fever. If you can't run a fever you can't cook away bad germs. Before antibiotics most people with weak glands just died of infections or the above starvation from being unable to nurse. Now they live, and have kids, and often those kids have hormone issues of their own including sometimes, low oxytocin. If you can't love and your Mother could not bond with you, that is reason enough to develop developmental depression. The pleasure centers of the brain do not get stimulated, so they do not grow. One becomes emotionally stunted and there is a limit of how much an adult brain can rewire itself to correct the problem, but there is hope, some antidepressants, (Prozac included), have been found to speed up brain cell formation, at least in the hippocampus where memory and moods are regulated. I have noticed on Prozac I think better and can remember better. If I go off of it this advantage goes away really quickly. Both my Mother and my own life were saved several times by antibiotics. It is all well and good to talk about doing things only the, " Natural way, " but Mother Nature would have weeded me and my Mother out of the gene pool without considerable help from Medical science. It is too late for my kind to go back to living only naturally. I am childless by choice, by the way. I made the decision when I was three years old (yes, THREE) not to pass it on. In the future science may invent medications that even do a better job of regrowing brain cells. Not only depression, but schizophrenia, autism, mental retardation and various learning disabilities may be permanently reversible after a temporary course of drugs. The future looks very promising, but only to those that have the wisdom to make use of what is learned. If someone says something will help, listen to them. If that same someone says something won't help, be very cautious about believing that. It seems if a person has a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. But a problem may not need a hammer, it may need a screw driver or a pair of pliers. In fact it helps to have many different kind of tools to build a house, or a Human. Hensley Re: Re: Anybody try Adaptocrine? >>They have better ones now, or maybe she wasn't on a high enough dose.<< NO she had untreated, undiagnosed HAshi's. She did nto have mental problems and neither did I but I was on every drug under the dsun for years and they nmmade me feel goos while tkaing them but they dod nto correct the problem. I have been ckeabn and sober for 12 years now on the best drug there is, THYROID hormone.This after 3 jail trips and 20 years of addictions. 5 attempted siuicides. I did nto need drugs ai needed thyroid, so did my mother. If my htyroid had been treated poroperly WAY back when I am betting I owuld not be Diabetic right now either. The harm is not the drugs so much as them being used in PLACE of the proper thyroid treatment people need. -- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 C'mon people, get off Liz's case. I am another person whose life was saved by antidepressants. I took them for several years, until I was able to function normally again without them. The argument that nobody suffers from a lack of antidepressants is akin to saying that nobody suffers from a lack of Cortef. That's true; nobody has ever died because their body did not produce enough brand-name Cortef. Do you say not to treat the adrenals with Cortef because it's not really curing the cause of the adrenal fatigue? No, of course not. The reason you take it is to give your adrenals a rest and to let them mend themselves while you are artificially supporting them. Well, for most people on antidepressants, it is exactly the same thing--they are on them for anywhere from six months to 2 years (most do not have to be on them for life), during which time they are allowing their brain's chemistry to return to normal. Rather than stressing and wearing out the synapses and receivers (depending on which mechanisms you are having trouble with) fighting the stress and depression and being in a vicious cycle, the antidepressants rest those areas so that they can begin functioning normally again. And that's okay. Someone who is very depressed probaby should not be judged or told that they are weak or misinformed or not in touch with their real emotions or that their doctor is a quack--if someone needs Cortef you don't tell them they are weak or it's all in their heads. If I hadn't taken antidepressants when I did, I would not be here now. Period. And now I have been off of them for seven years--through losing my house due to mold and declaring bankruptcy and being laid off--because my brain was able to right itself during the time I was on the antidepressants, so once I got off them I was able to handle all the above stressors without slipping into The Abyss. It was absolutely the right thing to do, and I would be horrified if someone else who really really needs them does not get them because they fear judgement on boards such as this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 Not to chime in on a debate here but I have been on several different antidepressants at times in the past. This T3 that I am on now, has uplifted my mood within days and I feel no depression, which is very nice. So for me, it is working better than the antidepressants did. -- Re: Re: Anybody try Adaptocrine? But Liz, don't you think the withdrawals have something to do with the temper? Having been a former drug addict.. an yes you do compare, I KNOW what withdrawals do to a person.. and the people around them. I have been to the depths of depressors with a wicked temper than almost got me killed and believe me antidepressants were never the answer. T3 was the answer. That and getting my sex hormones leveled out as I used to have Endometriosis and THAT little buggar can give you some personality swings. I have never seen a person suffering from too low antidepressants, just low brain chemicals they need to live. Had anyone tested your cortiosl or DHEA then? HIGH DHEA can cause the kind of things oyu are talking about as well. -- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2007 Report Share Posted May 9, 2007 I would never be able to sleep on 15 mgs of melatonin. That is a high dose. -- Re: Re: Anybody try Adaptocrine? I am on two different antidepressants, 3000 mg a day of fish oil, SAMe (which is what TM makes), b vitamins, Armour thyroid, molybdenum, chromium, tonilin, 15 mg a night of melatonin, htp tryptophan, and several other supplements. All of them together help my depression about 80 percent. Of all of this, the Surmontil and the Prozac help the most, but I notice very quickly if I go off of ANY of them. I also get 11 hours sleep a night or more to cope with my migraines and energy problems. For some of us nutrition is just not enough. It helps, oh yes it does, but it is not enough. I tried nutrition alone without meds for many years because it was all I knew. Alas, I had been " educated " out of taking medications. I had vicious temper tantrums, and crying jags that lasted hours. At that time I was off of ALL sugar and not trying to work or function at all, just trying to avoid melt downs. I was exhausted even more than I am now. The antidepressants keep away the temper tantrums and the crying jags. I have tried several times to go off of them and every time I get vicious, almost psychotic temper tantrums. I do lose weight but it isn't worth it because I lose all my friends too. I am still trying to repair the social damage done by the last time I tried to quit just the Prozac. There could be others out there reading these posts and having similar difficulties. PLEASE don't discourage them! :-0 Hensley Re: Re: Anybody try Adaptocrine? In a message dated 09/05/2007 19:16:33 GMT Daylight Time, lhensley@... writes: Please, you guys, they saved my sanity and my life! Oh how I wish I hadn't been discouraged from trying them! I wasted years being depressed and unable to function and it wasn't necessary and my parents went through unnecessary hell because I wasn't on them. Don't knock them so much. You might discourage someone who needs to be on them to function as a normal person from taking them. I believe it is a question of getting all the available information before making any decisions. Yes, I benefitted from SSRI's and I consider myself one of the lucky few. Check out TMG which has been shown in clinical trials to do better than anti-ds without the worryng sides and withdrawal problems. Mo www.NOVACounselling.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 I know its a high dose, but I have sleep apnea very, very bad. Re: Re: Anybody try Adaptocrine? In a message dated 09/05/2007 19:16:33 GMT Daylight Time, lhensley@... writes: Please, you guys, they saved my sanity and my life! Oh how I wish I hadn't been discouraged from trying them! I wasted years being depressed and unable to function and it wasn't necessary and my parents went through unnecessary hell because I wasn't on them. Don't knock them so much. You might discourage someone who needs to be on them to function as a normal person from taking them. I believe it is a question of getting all the available information before making any decisions. Yes, I benefitted from SSRI's and I consider myself one of the lucky few. Check out TMG which has been shown in clinical trials to do better than anti-ds without the worryng sides and withdrawal problems. Mo www.NOVACounselling.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 Thank you!!!!!! Hensley Re: Anybody try Adaptocrine? C'mon people, get off Liz's case. I am another person whose life was saved by antidepressants. I took them for several years, until I was able to function normally again without them. The argument that nobody suffers from a lack of antidepressants is akin to saying that nobody suffers from a lack of Cortef. That's true; nobody has ever died because their body did not produce enough brand-name Cortef. Do you say not to treat the adrenals with Cortef because it's not really curing the cause of the adrenal fatigue? No, of course not. The reason you take it is to give your adrenals a rest and to let them mend themselves while you are artificially supporting them. Well, for most people on antidepressants, it is exactly the same thing--they are on them for anywhere from six months to 2 years (most do not have to be on them for life), during which time they are allowing their brain's chemistry to return to normal. Rather than stressing and wearing out the synapses and receivers (depending on which mechanisms you are having trouble with) fighting the stress and depression and being in a vicious cycle, the antidepressants rest those areas so that they can begin functioning normally again. And that's okay. Someone who is very depressed probaby should not be judged or told that they are weak or misinformed or not in touch with their real emotions or that their doctor is a quack--if someone needs Cortef you don't tell them they are weak or it's all in their heads. If I hadn't taken antidepressants when I did, I would not be here now. Period. And now I have been off of them for seven years--through losing my house due to mold and declaring bankruptcy and being laid off--because my brain was able to right itself during the time I was on the antidepressants, so once I got off them I was able to handle all the above stressors without slipping into The Abyss. It was absolutely the right thing to do, and I would be horrified if someone else who really really needs them does not get them because they fear judgement on boards such as this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 Liz how much Armour are you on? And have you had recent testing for thyroid levels? I have to ask as oyu seem to still have BAD hypo symptoms. Are you able to increase it without problems? -- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 >>The argument that nobody suffers from a lack of antidepressants is akin to saying that nobody suffers from a lack of Cortef.<< Well I do nto agree with this because we ALL suffer from lack of cortisol which is what Cortef is. But I agree this discussion is not productive so I shall drop it. -- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2007 Report Share Posted May 10, 2007 I was on T3 for a while. It stressed my adrenals very badly. Re: Re: Anybody try Adaptocrine? But Liz, don't you think the withdrawals have something to do with the temper? Having been a former drug addict.. an yes you do compare, I KNOW what withdrawals do to a person.. and the people around them. I have been to the depths of depressors with a wicked temper than almost got me killed and believe me antidepressants were never the answer. T3 was the answer. That and getting my sex hormones leveled out as I used to have Endometriosis and THAT little buggar can give you some personality swings. I have never seen a person suffering from too low antidepressants, just low brain chemicals they need to live. Had anyone tested your cortiosl or DHEA then? HIGH DHEA can cause the kind of things oyu are talking about as well. -- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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