Re: Jaw joint pain, will surgery help?Will ANYTHING help?

[Guest guest]

I had TMJ for YEARS lots of clicking and pain and headaches.

I am 4 weeks postop.

Not a one headache!

My jaw is now symmetrical and my teeth line up so no clicking out of

position either. My sister has same problems she goes to " pain

managment " people. They told her surgery wouldn't help her pain.

BUT I DON'T CARE IF THEY ARE RIGHT OR WRONG SOMETIMES CAUSE MINE IS

GONE! I had an overbite of 5mm.

That and I am a horrid clencher which made it worse.

But funny now that everything fits and there is now " space " in my

mouth I feel great.

For the pain before, sorry I tried it all.

I used to massage my jaw joints until I was red!

Tried lots of drugs, muscle relaxers, but I carry all my tension

there....alcohol helped and so did my bite plate.

I know what you mean about hanging the jaw out.

With me after my surgery I started to feel something really felt

wrong in my mouth! It was then I realized that my teeth on the one

side had never really connected and I was feeling equal pressure on

all teeth for the first time!

Its a long hard road (hence why we are all on this board)

But for me it has been so worth it.

For the pain, for the normal bite and maybe when the swelling goes

down some cosmetics.

Shiloh

> Hi everyone!

> I have had my braces for a few months now and see my Ortho again

in 2

> weeks to decide if I can have surgery in September or if I will

have

> to wait a bit longer. I spoke with the Surgeon and she said that

they

> don't know if surgery will help my jaw pain or not, it has

improved

> others but sometimes it doesn't make any difference at all. The

> reason I decided to go through with this was becuase the pain has

> gotten so bad I can hardly stand it. I sit around with my mouth

> hanging open quite a bit becuase it is the only thing that even

> remotely helps.I have a class 3 underbite of 7 mm. Did anyone have

> this and did surgery help? Can anyone recommend anything? I take

> ibuprofin but it doens't seem to make a dent. The pain is right in

my

> jaw joints on both sides. Thanks for the feedback!

>

[Guest guest]

There is a group at yahoo.com called TMJ-life support that deals

with tmj pain more specifically. When I was 16 I had surgery to make

the teeth meet in hopes of reducing the pain and it didn't work. It

backfired big time. The degeneration became much more rapid. I just

had my jaw joints rebuild 2 months ago (at age 28) because the

condyle's had worn down to the mandible. 10 1/2 hours of surgery.

Before going for surgery to make the teeth meet make sure the

surgeon has done their homework. They should have taken some sort of

diagnostic imaging of the jaw joints (CT scan, arthrogram, mri,

etc.) to see what kind of damage, if any, there is in the joint

itself. They should also do a full range of blood work to rule out

diseases such as rhuematoid arthritis. I also think it is important

your surgeon also be a surgeon that can and does do jaw joint

repairs. Sometimes people don't admit their limitations and they may

suggest a surgery that they can do versus referring you to a more

specialised surgeon.

TMJ pain is a bigger deal than most doctors make it. If you are

taking ibuprofen every day you may want to look into a stronger

prescription NSAID preferable with an enteric coating so you don't

burn out your stomach or something like Celebrex or Vioxx. Sometimes

a drug called Elavil will be prescribed in low doses at bedtime for

chronic pain. It increases the seritonin levels and that helps

somepeople with pain relief. It also makes you sleep harder which

can help with pain. It is a tricyclic antidepressant, but it is a

crappy antidepressant, works much better as a pain reliever. They

found that out when people who were depressed and in pain, had less

pain, but were still depressed. In Canada you can also buy tylenol

#1 over the counter (ask the pharmacist) it contains a bit of

codeine that will help with pain. In the US I think it is

prescription only.

Also thinks like physiotherapy where they use ultrasound, massage,

hot or cold therapy are also good. Simple things like soaking in a

bath with about 1 cup of epsom salts (drug store-cheap). Gentle

range of motion exercises (neck and jaw). What else.... I'm sure

there are some things I am missing out.

I am dead tired so please forgive if this is rambling. Take care as

best you can. I'm at tl_cloutier@... if you want to get

a hold of me.

> Hi everyone!

> I have had my braces for a few months now and see my Ortho again

in 2

> weeks to decide if I can have surgery in September or if I will

have

> to wait a bit longer. I spoke with the Surgeon and she said that

they

> don't know if surgery will help my jaw pain or not, it has

improved

> others but sometimes it doesn't make any difference at all. The

> reason I decided to go through with this was becuase the pain has

> gotten so bad I can hardly stand it. I sit around with my mouth

> hanging open quite a bit becuase it is the only thing that even

> remotely helps.I have a class 3 underbite of 7 mm. Did anyone have

> this and did surgery help? Can anyone recommend anything? I take

> ibuprofin but it doens't seem to make a dent. The pain is right in

my

> jaw joints on both sides. Thanks for the feedback!

>

[Guest guest]

wrote:

>When I was 16 I had surgery to make

> the teeth meet in hopes of reducing the pain and it didn't work. It

> backfired big time. The degeneration became much more rapid. I just

> had my jaw joints rebuild 2 months ago (at age 28) because the

> condyle's had worn down to the mandible. 10 1/2 hours of surgery.

, one of my greatest fears in my daughter's case is the

situation with the TMJ. She does have degeneration of the joints--

remodeling of the condyles. According to the surgeon, the joints can

sort of hit a point where they max out on the degeneration and then

sort of accommodate themselves or something like that. I'm not sure

exactly what he meant. I take it yours " maxed out " but felt awful if

you had to have protheses put in--or was it fat grafts? How soon

after the surgery to fix your bite did you start having more problems

with the joints? What surgery did you have for the malocclusion? Did

it seem to fix the problem initially before everything started to go

downhill, or were there problems that were evident right away post-op?

> Before going for surgery to make the teeth meet make sure the

> surgeon has done their homework. They should have taken some sort

> of diagnostic imaging of the jaw joints (CT scan, arthrogram, mri,

> etc.) to see what kind of damage, if any, there is in the joint

> itself. They should also do a full range of blood work to rule out

> diseases such as rhuematoid arthritis. I also think it is important

> your surgeon also be a surgeon that can and does do jaw joint

> repairs. Sometimes people don't admit their limitations and they

>may suggest a surgery that they can do versus referring you to a

>more specialised surgeon. TMJ pain is a bigger deal than most

>doctors make it.

We specifically went with a surgeon who had experience with the TMJ.

Rather than have the surgery locally, she went to U of Michigan. The

surgeon there does many orthognathic procedures weekly and also works

on the TMJ doing fat grafts, repair, etc. He has kept records (a

database) on over 1000 patients with TMJ issues. But when we had her

ortho (who also teaches at U of M) ask him if she should have an MRI

of the joints or anything before surgery, he said no, it wasn't

necessary. He did check out her joints with a manual examination and

discussing her problems with her. He also had the usual x-rays. I

thought at the time that some actual " picture " of the joints

themselves would be beneficial, but it was not to be. (And I have

excellent insurance that will cover her through December of this

year, so cost was not a biggie.) Since TMJ problems are his

specialty, we did not question his judgment. It does make me somwhat

apprehensive however. Well, no going back now. Her situation

regarding the joints does seem to be better post-op, but who knows

what the deal will be further down the line. She is having some

cracking noise on the one side--but that was something she dealt with

beforehand, too. That's why I'm asking you when you started to have a

worsening of problems post-op. What was the first indicator? Her pain

situation has dramatically improved--and we were hoping it would stay

that way.

, I hope that your recent surgery was an answer to your TMD

problems. What exactly was the procedure you had done? Thanks for

your posts on this topic. Sue

[Guest guest]

thank you everyone for your advice and input! This board is truly a

god send!!

Thanks

> >When I was 16 I had surgery to make

> > the teeth meet in hopes of reducing the pain and it didn't work.

It

> > backfired big time. The degeneration became much more rapid. I

just

> > had my jaw joints rebuild 2 months ago (at age 28) because the

> > condyle's had worn down to the mandible. 10 1/2 hours of surgery.

>

> , one of my greatest fears in my daughter's case is the

> situation with the TMJ. She does have degeneration of the joints--

> remodeling of the condyles. According to the surgeon, the joints

can

> sort of hit a point where they max out on the degeneration and then

> sort of accommodate themselves or something like that. I'm not sure

> exactly what he meant. I take it yours " maxed out " but felt awful

if

> you had to have protheses put in--or was it fat grafts? How soon

> after the surgery to fix your bite did you start having more

problems

> with the joints? What surgery did you have for the malocclusion?

Did

> it seem to fix the problem initially before everything started to

go

> downhill, or were there problems that were evident right away post-

op?

>

> > Before going for surgery to make the teeth meet make sure the

> > surgeon has done their homework. They should have taken some

sort

> > of diagnostic imaging of the jaw joints (CT scan, arthrogram,

mri,

> > etc.) to see what kind of damage, if any, there is in the joint

> > itself. They should also do a full range of blood work to rule

out

> > diseases such as rhuematoid arthritis. I also think it is

important

> > your surgeon also be a surgeon that can and does do jaw joint

> > repairs. Sometimes people don't admit their limitations and they

> >may suggest a surgery that they can do versus referring you to a

> >more specialised surgeon. TMJ pain is a bigger deal than most

> >doctors make it.

>

> We specifically went with a surgeon who had experience with the

TMJ.

> Rather than have the surgery locally, she went to U of Michigan.

The

> surgeon there does many orthognathic procedures weekly and also

works

> on the TMJ doing fat grafts, repair, etc. He has kept records (a

> database) on over 1000 patients with TMJ issues. But when we had

her

> ortho (who also teaches at U of M) ask him if she should have an

MRI

> of the joints or anything before surgery, he said no, it wasn't

> necessary. He did check out her joints with a manual examination

and

> discussing her problems with her. He also had the usual x-rays. I

> thought at the time that some actual " picture " of the joints

> themselves would be beneficial, but it was not to be. (And I have

> excellent insurance that will cover her through December of this

> year, so cost was not a biggie.) Since TMJ problems are his

> specialty, we did not question his judgment. It does make me

somwhat

> apprehensive however. Well, no going back now. Her situation

> regarding the joints does seem to be better post-op, but who knows

> what the deal will be further down the line. She is having some

> cracking noise on the one side--but that was something she dealt

with

> beforehand, too. That's why I'm asking you when you started to have

a

> worsening of problems post-op. What was the first indicator? Her

pain

> situation has dramatically improved--and we were hoping it would

stay

> that way.

>

> , I hope that your recent surgery was an answer to your TMD

> problems. What exactly was the procedure you had done? Thanks for

> your posts on this topic. Sue