Re: What to do about grandchildren?

[Guest guest]

We all have versions of it somewhere in our experience I would wager.

So, here's my advice...seriously.

Spare your children. God help us all for thinking and hoping that it would be

different. It's not. I thought it was. She was, I said, a better grandmother

than a mother. But you know...she's not. She never was.

My mother was here for a little less than 24 hours this last weekend. My son is

not fond of her, but its my house and I expect him to be a respectful human

being not because it's her, but because he is better than her. So he is. He is

not obligated to show affection, he is just required to acknowledge her arrival

and her departure and if she speaks to him to answer.

She doesn't speak to him, if she can avoid it. She is not fond of men and my

son is 18 going on 35....and since she can't fuck him, he is irrelevant to her

except where he gets in her way.

SO, at 6 am on Saturday morning, he came out of the bathroom to her crossed arms

and staring at the door where he was at.

His comment is that she is just freaking creepy.

Ya think?

Anyway, the history behind this is that she feels he is like me, and according

to her I am not nurturing. He doesn't want her touching him because he feels

she is inappropriate and does not recognize boundaries. And he is adept at

putting up boundaries...both my kids are because I made it clear they were

empowered to do so and taught them how to do it.

SO, point is...if your kids are not comfortable, that's not good. BUT, more

importantly YOU are not comfortable with how she is and it's up to you to

protect them. So do what you think needs to be done to make sure they don't

grow up tormented like you were.

Her using them to get things from you...is ALL the ammo you need.

Sincerely,

L

>

> It's been a while since I've been here. This has always been a source of

support and information that I have found instrumental in my dealing with my BPD

mother whom I not-so-affectionately refer to as mymomzilla.

>

> I have had NC with her since Oct. 06. I do however have three beautiful

children who loved their grandmother and were not targets of hers so we allowed

them to continue having contact with her. The kids are now 10, 12 and the oldest

just turned 17. As they get older they are noticing more and more how difficult

their grandmother can be and it is effecting their desire to talk to her let

alone see her. My 12 year old received a birthday card from mymomzilla and

instead of being excited about the potential birthday treat enclosed they were

trepidatious and conflicted about the fact that this now meant she had to call

her to thank her for this. Calling her is always a crap shoot and they too have

come to learn this - sadly the hard way. They feel they have to be restrained

and worried about what they say because of how she may react. Is that a healthy

child-grandparent relationship? Not at all.

>

> Then last night while it was still my oldest's birthday mymomzilla called them

on their cell phone wishing them a terse happy birthday and then proceeded to

tell them that she once gave my wife a fancy watch and some special dishes and

that she now wants them back and for my child to see what they could do about

that. This stuff was given almost 10 years ago and now all of the sudden she

wants them back? This is nothing more than another salvo on her part; a power

play and attempt to get a rise out of me and I fully intend to ignore it. That

does not negate how utterly inappropriate it was to go through my child on this.

I can live with the idea that she wants to strip me of any kind of fond memory I

may have by trying to remove anything nice that she may have done for us in the

past. She gave some money towards our now 9 year old vehicle, is she going to go

after that too? Right now I wouldn't put it past her to start reclaiming

anything and everything she thinks she had a hand in.

>

> The only good thing about this is that I feel an odd sense of calm about it

all. I am boiling over the fact that she chose to go through my child in such a

inappropriate way. I am considering that my younger kids are no longer safe in

her company. And they are all supposed to go out for lunch with her next week.

Yikes! I am angry that this is even a consideration. BUT at the same time I am

calm in the knowledge that this is the raving of a lunatic and I intend to chalk

it up to just that and ignore it. Several years ago there is no way I could have

done this and would have seethed for days on this contemplating what I was going

to say and do about it. Now I am content to ignore it knowing that to do

anything else would simply feed into it. I have told my child, should they be

speaking to her again, to simply tell her that the message had been passed on

and to leave it at that. To acknowledge it beyond that only gives her more fuel

to continue with more crap.

>

> Yes I want to phone her up and rip a strip off of her for involving my child.

Maybe as their father that is what I should be doing. I also know full well that

as is the case with most borderline personalities that is exactly what she

wants. Knowing that is what has allowed me to feel this calmness and contentment

with my stance of simply ignoring it. Calling her would give her the

satisfaction that she finally found a way to get a rise out of me; to get me to

break my non contact. The truly scary part is now wondering just how far she's

prepared to go to get that rise. My silence will probably only escalate her

further. Will that only serve to put my kids in jeopardy? That will be

unacceptable and will only result in her not being allowed to have anything to

do with them either. So sad isn't it?

>

> After rereading this I am worried that I do indeed need to protect my kids

more. Am I hanging them out on a limb by letting them maintain contact with her?

That is always a possibility when dealing with her. The truth is that I think

they would could live with not having anything to do with her. So why am I

putting my kids out there like this? Mostly because despite all of this they

still care for her and want to see her albeit only once in a while. Oh what to

do? Thus far I have simply been letting them dictate this but I will say for the

record that should she step out of line during their next visit with her it will

most definitely be their last visit. I would be negligent as a loving caring

parent to not make that call.

>

> I guess after all of that my question is whether anyone else has found

themselves in this kind if situation, how did you handle it and am I nuts for

even allowing it to go on?

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, is this one ever relevant. Thanks for posting this one. I sometimes

wonder if I'm doing the right thing by keeping my kids completely NC. Nada was

always very good with them, but that doesn't take away the risk of her going

stupid in their presence or when they are in her care.

First, that is completely an absolutely inexcusable that she would attempt to

get at you through your kids. Major loser points go to her for that.

Truth is, she will always be who she is, and she will continue to escalate at

them to try to get at you. I would do a serious " safety " check to make sure I

was comfortable with her. I'm not saying she would harm them, but it always a

good thing to make sure she wouldn't put them in any situations that would be

painful in the long term.

Here is something I've learned from my sons' father. (He is major BP/NP).

Being with him causes them pain and confusion. They have a lot of crazy to cut

through after spending time with him. However, each and every thing he does has

served as a great " learning lesson " for them. It gives me an opportunity to

talk about what they are dealing with. In a very calm and respectful tone, I

give them sympathy and validation. I let them know that it is not them, and

sometimes give high-level descriptions of BP behavior.

The calm and respectful tone I use (I always tell them I respect him as their

father and always will)lets them know I have no hidden agendas, which is true.

End result is they are getting a WEALTH of education on how to deal with BP/NP.

They are learning to set boundaries, how to separate themselves from his crazy,

learning it is NOT them, learning how to deal with another's crazy, and learning

how to accept someone while choosing a different path for their lives, and

learning how to not run their lives.

He is the best negative example I could hope for as far as how to choose the

type of person they want to become.

I'm not saying its great, and I wish they didn't have to learn these lessons so

young, but they will be better equipped to deal with BP at 15 than I am at 42.

Can't help but think that will come in handy.

Hope this helps--

I'm sure you'll make the right choice. Kudos for not reacting as well. I know

that took growth!

Blessings,

Karla

>

> It's been a while since I've been here. This has always been a source of

support and information that I have found instrumental in my dealing with my BPD

mother whom I not-so-affectionately refer to as mymomzilla.

>

> I have had NC with her since Oct. 06. I do however have three beautiful

children who loved their grandmother and were not targets of hers so we allowed

them to continue having contact with her. The kids are now 10, 12 and the oldest

just turned 17. As they get older they are noticing more and more how difficult

their grandmother can be and it is effecting their desire to talk to her let

alone see her. My 12 year old received a birthday card from mymomzilla and

instead of being excited about the potential birthday treat enclosed they were

trepidatious and conflicted about the fact that this now meant she had to call

her to thank her for this. Calling her is always a crap shoot and they too have

come to learn this - sadly the hard way. They feel they have to be restrained

and worried about what they say because of how she may react. Is that a healthy

child-grandparent relationship? Not at all.

>

> Then last night while it was still my oldest's birthday mymomzilla called them

on their cell phone wishing them a terse happy birthday and then proceeded to

tell them that she once gave my wife a fancy watch and some special dishes and

that she now wants them back and for my child to see what they could do about

that. This stuff was given almost 10 years ago and now all of the sudden she

wants them back? This is nothing more than another salvo on her part; a power

play and attempt to get a rise out of me and I fully intend to ignore it. That

does not negate how utterly inappropriate it was to go through my child on this.

I can live with the idea that she wants to strip me of any kind of fond memory I

may have by trying to remove anything nice that she may have done for us in the

past. She gave some money towards our now 9 year old vehicle, is she going to go

after that too? Right now I wouldn't put it past her to start reclaiming

anything and everything she thinks she had a hand in.

>

> The only good thing about this is that I feel an odd sense of calm about it

all. I am boiling over the fact that she chose to go through my child in such a

inappropriate way. I am considering that my younger kids are no longer safe in

her company. And they are all supposed to go out for lunch with her next week.

Yikes! I am angry that this is even a consideration. BUT at the same time I am

calm in the knowledge that this is the raving of a lunatic and I intend to chalk

it up to just that and ignore it. Several years ago there is no way I could have

done this and would have seethed for days on this contemplating what I was going

to say and do about it. Now I am content to ignore it knowing that to do

anything else would simply feed into it. I have told my child, should they be

speaking to her again, to simply tell her that the message had been passed on

and to leave it at that. To acknowledge it beyond that only gives her more fuel

to continue with more crap.

>

> Yes I want to phone her up and rip a strip off of her for involving my child.

Maybe as their father that is what I should be doing. I also know full well that

as is the case with most borderline personalities that is exactly what she

wants. Knowing that is what has allowed me to feel this calmness and contentment

with my stance of simply ignoring it. Calling her would give her the

satisfaction that she finally found a way to get a rise out of me; to get me to

break my non contact. The truly scary part is now wondering just how far she's

prepared to go to get that rise. My silence will probably only escalate her

further. Will that only serve to put my kids in jeopardy? That will be

unacceptable and will only result in her not being allowed to have anything to

do with them either. So sad isn't it?

>

> After rereading this I am worried that I do indeed need to protect my kids

more. Am I hanging them out on a limb by letting them maintain contact with her?

That is always a possibility when dealing with her. The truth is that I think

they would could live with not having anything to do with her. So why am I

putting my kids out there like this? Mostly because despite all of this they

still care for her and want to see her albeit only once in a while. Oh what to

do? Thus far I have simply been letting them dictate this but I will say for the

record that should she step out of line during their next visit with her it will

most definitely be their last visit. I would be negligent as a loving caring

parent to not make that call.

>

> I guess after all of that my question is whether anyone else has found

themselves in this kind if situation, how did you handle it and am I nuts for

even allowing it to go on?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Ross,

In reading your post I did have one thought - you say your kids have begun

realizing how messed up their grandma is. Yes, you have to protect them, but

you are also raising them. And it's going to be very important for them to know

that they do NOT have to take abuse or manipulation from people like their

grandmother, right? So maybe one way to solve the dilemma is to just tell them

(or the two older ones, anyway) that you acknowledge the problems with Grandma,

you've had your own share of trouble with her, and that you respect their

decisions - to either see her, not see her, or see her only with " backup " (you,

perhaps at a table nearby while they have lunch, for instance). That gives them

the secure feeling that you are squarely in their court, even when dealing with

other relatives. It tells them that their discomfort with Grandma is valid,

that you've been uncomfortable with her too, and that, while you don't want to

be unnecessarily cruel to her, you also refuse to be her victim or to let her

abuse your family. That's a healthy role model - showing as much compassion for

her as you can while maintaining very strong boundaries to preserve the peace of

your home. Then, once they know that the problem is a real one, you can talk

with them about strategies - how to react when Momzilla pulls stunt like the one

about the dishes. Those lessons will be useful now and in the future - there

are plenty of crazy and manipulative people out there, so your kids will surely

use these new skills later in life.

I just had a conversation like this with my son (almost 17) yesterday. He has

earned a very important honor, and there will be a ceremony - one that a

grandparent would normally be invited to. I gave him the option - invite her or

not. He decided against it, because he knows she'd insist on being the center

of attention, or embarrass him in front of his peers and the other guests. I

told him I'd back him either way. I'm pretty confident that this really was his

decision - he wasn't just saying what he thought I wanted to hear. It's sad

that she can't attend - sad for her, sad for him. But he knows he doesn't have

to put up with her behavior just because " she's family. "

>

> It's been a while since I've been here. This has always been a source of

support and information that I have found instrumental in my dealing with my BPD

mother whom I not-so-affectionately refer to as mymomzilla.

>

> I have had NC with her since Oct. 06. I do however have three beautiful

children who loved their grandmother and were not targets of hers so we allowed

them to continue having contact with her. The kids are now 10, 12 and the oldest

just turned 17. As they get older they are noticing more and more how difficult

their grandmother can be and it is effecting their desire to talk to her let

alone see her. My 12 year old received a birthday card from mymomzilla and

instead of being excited about the potential birthday treat enclosed they were

trepidatious and conflicted about the fact that this now meant she had to call

her to thank her for this. Calling her is always a crap shoot and they too have

come to learn this - sadly the hard way. They feel they have to be restrained

and worried about what they say because of how she may react. Is that a healthy

child-grandparent relationship? Not at all.

>

> Then last night while it was still my oldest's birthday mymomzilla called them

on their cell phone wishing them a terse happy birthday and then proceeded to

tell them that she once gave my wife a fancy watch and some special dishes and

that she now wants them back and for my child to see what they could do about

that. This stuff was given almost 10 years ago and now all of the sudden she

wants them back? This is nothing more than another salvo on her part; a power

play and attempt to get a rise out of me and I fully intend to ignore it. That

does not negate how utterly inappropriate it was to go through my child on this.

I can live with the idea that she wants to strip me of any kind of fond memory I

may have by trying to remove anything nice that she may have done for us in the

past. She gave some money towards our now 9 year old vehicle, is she going to go

after that too? Right now I wouldn't put it past her to start reclaiming

anything and everything she thinks she had a hand in.

>

> The only good thing about this is that I feel an odd sense of calm about it

all. I am boiling over the fact that she chose to go through my child in such a

inappropriate way. I am considering that my younger kids are no longer safe in

her company. And they are all supposed to go out for lunch with her next week.

Yikes! I am angry that this is even a consideration. BUT at the same time I am

calm in the knowledge that this is the raving of a lunatic and I intend to chalk

it up to just that and ignore it. Several years ago there is no way I could have

done this and would have seethed for days on this contemplating what I was going

to say and do about it. Now I am content to ignore it knowing that to do

anything else would simply feed into it. I have told my child, should they be

speaking to her again, to simply tell her that the message had been passed on

and to leave it at that. To acknowledge it beyond that only gives her more fuel

to continue with more crap.

>

> Yes I want to phone her up and rip a strip off of her for involving my child.

Maybe as their father that is what I should be doing. I also know full well that

as is the case with most borderline personalities that is exactly what she

wants. Knowing that is what has allowed me to feel this calmness and contentment

with my stance of simply ignoring it. Calling her would give her the

satisfaction that she finally found a way to get a rise out of me; to get me to

break my non contact. The truly scary part is now wondering just how far she's

prepared to go to get that rise. My silence will probably only escalate her

further. Will that only serve to put my kids in jeopardy? That will be

unacceptable and will only result in her not being allowed to have anything to

do with them either. So sad isn't it?

>

> After rereading this I am worried that I do indeed need to protect my kids

more. Am I hanging them out on a limb by letting them maintain contact with her?

That is always a possibility when dealing with her. The truth is that I think

they would could live with not having anything to do with her. So why am I

putting my kids out there like this? Mostly because despite all of this they

still care for her and want to see her albeit only once in a while. Oh what to

do? Thus far I have simply been letting them dictate this but I will say for the

record that should she step out of line during their next visit with her it will

most definitely be their last visit. I would be negligent as a loving caring

parent to not make that call.

>

> I guess after all of that my question is whether anyone else has found

themselves in this kind if situation, how did you handle it and am I nuts for

even allowing it to go on?

>

[Guest guest]

If you waver on this, EVERY holiday will be discussed like this. Set the

boundary and stick to your Easter eggs!

>

> It's been a while since I've been here. This has always been a source of

support and information that I have found instrumental in my dealing with my BPD

mother whom I not-so-affectionately refer to as mymomzilla.

>

> I have had NC with her since Oct. 06. I do however have three beautiful

children who loved their grandmother and were not targets of hers so we allowed

them to continue having contact with her. The kids are now 10, 12 and the oldest

just turned 17. As they get older they are noticing more and more how difficult

their grandmother can be and it is effecting their desire to talk to her let

alone see her. My 12 year old received a birthday card from mymomzilla and

instead of being excited about the potential birthday treat enclosed they were

trepidatious and conflicted about the fact that this now meant she had to call

her to thank her for this. Calling her is always a crap shoot and they too have

come to learn this - sadly the hard way. They feel they have to be restrained

and worried about what they say because of how she may react. Is that a healthy

child-grandparent relationship? Not at all.

>

> Then last night while it was still my oldest's birthday mymomzilla called them

on their cell phone wishing them a terse happy birthday and then proceeded to

tell them that she once gave my wife a fancy watch and some special dishes and

that she now wants them back and for my child to see what they could do about

that. This stuff was given almost 10 years ago and now all of the sudden she

wants them back? This is nothing more than another salvo on her part; a power

play and attempt to get a rise out of me and I fully intend to ignore it. That

does not negate how utterly inappropriate it was to go through my child on this.

I can live with the idea that she wants to strip me of any kind of fond memory I

may have by trying to remove anything nice that she may have done for us in the

past. She gave some money towards our now 9 year old vehicle, is she going to go

after that too? Right now I wouldn't put it past her to start reclaiming

anything and everything she thinks she had a hand in.

>

> The only good thing about this is that I feel an odd sense of calm about it

all. I am boiling over the fact that she chose to go through my child in such a

inappropriate way. I am considering that my younger kids are no longer safe in

her company. And they are all supposed to go out for lunch with her next week.

Yikes! I am angry that this is even a consideration. BUT at the same time I am

calm in the knowledge that this is the raving of a lunatic and I intend to chalk

it up to just that and ignore it. Several years ago there is no way I could have

done this and would have seethed for days on this contemplating what I was going

to say and do about it. Now I am content to ignore it knowing that to do

anything else would simply feed into it. I have told my child, should they be

speaking to her again, to simply tell her that the message had been passed on

and to leave it at that. To acknowledge it beyond that only gives her more fuel

to continue with more crap.

>

> Yes I want to phone her up and rip a strip off of her for involving my child.

Maybe as their father that is what I should be doing. I also know full well that

as is the case with most borderline personalities that is exactly what she

wants. Knowing that is what has allowed me to feel this calmness and contentment

with my stance of simply ignoring it. Calling her would give her the

satisfaction that she finally found a way to get a rise out of me; to get me to

break my non contact. The truly scary part is now wondering just how far she's

prepared to go to get that rise. My silence will probably only escalate her

further. Will that only serve to put my kids in jeopardy? That will be

unacceptable and will only result in her not being allowed to have anything to

do with them either. So sad isn't it?

>

> After rereading this I am worried that I do indeed need to protect my kids

more. Am I hanging them out on a limb by letting them maintain contact with her?

That is always a possibility when dealing with her. The truth is that I think

they would could live with not having anything to do with her. So why am I

putting my kids out there like this? Mostly because despite all of this they

still care for her and want to see her albeit only once in a while. Oh what to

do? Thus far I have simply been letting them dictate this but I will say for the

record that should she step out of line during their next visit with her it will

most definitely be their last visit. I would be negligent as a loving caring

parent to not make that call.

>

> I guess after all of that my question is whether anyone else has found

themselves in this kind if situation, how did you handle it and am I nuts for

even allowing it to go on?

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you to those who took the time to respond to me. The saga continues.

Mymomzilla again brought up the return of these items with my oldest who did as

instructed and told her that the message had been passed on. I am hoping it ends

there but know in my gut that as long as there is contact between my children

and mymomzilla it wont.

She is still supposed to take them out for lunch on Saturday and they still want

to go. That is the only reason that I have not called it off and told her not to

contact any of us ever again. The bottom line is that she wants engagement and I

will not give her that, not even to tell her that she is precariously close to

losing her grandchildren all together. I will assure you all that if she blows

up during this lunch visit it will be her last visit. My kids don't deserve to

be anything but loved and cherished by her and that is not what she gives them.

I have apologized to my oldest for being put in this position and given them a

little bit more background about why things are the way they are. My oldest has

a petty good handle on who mymomzilla is and at least for now is prepared to put

up with her crap but even they are starting to question that. Who wouldn't?

In the meantime my wife and I will be on eggshells the entire time our kids are

with her ready to rescue them if need be. We have discussed with our oldest a

safe exit plan and should the need arise will enact it without hesitation. As I

type and reread this I can't help but think both that this is absurd for any of

this to be necessary and how sad it is that in fact it is absolutely necessary.

Keep your fingers crossed, I know ours will be.

[Guest guest]

I wonder...

What about teaching your children that they don't have to carry messages from

her to you? I can think of a couple ways of doing this and I'm sure there are

more. One way would be to handle it between you and your children " I appreciate

your sharing that with me, but if grandma needs to get a message to me about

that then she needs to contact me herself. It is unfair for her to ask you to

do that job for her and I'm sorry she did that. Now, how was the food? " or

something like that...being careful, of course, to let the kids know THEY did

NOTHING wrong.

Or maybe even to empower them to draw the boundary by teaching them how to say

to her " Grandma, that sounds really important, I think you should tell that to

my mom yourself. " or something along that line.

Help them to learn that triangulating isn't healthy by showing them how to stay

out of it and not be used like that.

Ninera

>

> Subject: Re: What to do about grandchildren?

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 7:05 PM

> Thank you to those who took the time

> to respond to me. The saga continues. Mymomzilla again

> brought up the return of these items with my oldest who did

> as instructed and told her that the message had been passed

> on. I am hoping it ends there but know in my gut that as

> long as there is contact between my children and mymomzilla

> it wont.

>

> She is still supposed to take them out for lunch on

> Saturday and they still want to go. That is the only reason

> that I have not called it off and told her not to contact

> any of us ever again. The bottom line is that she wants

> engagement and I will not give her that, not even to tell

> her that she is precariously close to losing her

> grandchildren all together. I will assure you all that if

> she blows up during this lunch visit it will be her last

> visit. My kids don't  deserve to be anything but loved

> and cherished by her and that is not what she gives them.

>

> I have apologized to my oldest for being put in this

> position and given them a little bit more background about

> why things are the way they are. My oldest has a petty good

> handle on who mymomzilla is and at least for now is prepared

> to put up with her crap but even they are starting to

> question that. Who wouldn't?

>

> In the meantime my wife and I will be on eggshells the

> entire time our kids are with her ready to rescue them if

> need be. We have discussed with our oldest a safe exit plan

> and should the need arise will enact it without hesitation.

> As I type and reread this I can't help but think both that

> this is absurd for any of this to be necessary and how sad

> it is that in fact it is absolutely necessary.

>

> Keep your fingers crossed, I know ours will be.

>

>

>

>

>

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> and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Ross -

Your plan to be ready to rescue the kids is a good one - and unfortunately,

their grandmother is providing good training for their teenage years. Having an

" exit code phrase " for immediate rescue is a good idea for kids who are old

enough to go to sleepovers, parties, etc. If they start feeling uncomfortable

for any reason (guns/drugs/sex/booze/shoplifting/weird adults/dangerous

driving/Grandma), they can call you on the cell or house phone, work the phrase

into the conversation, and you will come pick them up immediately, no questions

asked, no embarrassing parental fit in front of their peers. It's sad that

Grandma has to be on the list with the other dangers, though.

>

> Thank you to those who took the time to respond to me. The saga continues.

Mymomzilla again brought up the return of these items with my oldest who did as

instructed and told her that the message had been passed on. I am hoping it ends

there but know in my gut that as long as there is contact between my children

and mymomzilla it wont.

>

> She is still supposed to take them out for lunch on Saturday and they still

want to go. That is the only reason that I have not called it off and told her

not to contact any of us ever again. The bottom line is that she wants

engagement and I will not give her that, not even to tell her that she is

precariously close to losing her grandchildren all together. I will assure you

all that if she blows up during this lunch visit it will be her last visit. My

kids don't deserve to be anything but loved and cherished by her and that is

not what she gives them.

>

> I have apologized to my oldest for being put in this position and given them a

little bit more background about why things are the way they are. My oldest has

a petty good handle on who mymomzilla is and at least for now is prepared to put

up with her crap but even they are starting to question that. Who wouldn't?

>

> In the meantime my wife and I will be on eggshells the entire time our kids

are with her ready to rescue them if need be. We have discussed with our oldest

a safe exit plan and should the need arise will enact it without hesitation. As

I type and reread this I can't help but think both that this is absurd for any

of this to be necessary and how sad it is that in fact it is absolutely

necessary.

>

> Keep your fingers crossed, I know ours will be.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much Ninera for your spot on input. In fact I have had that

conversation several times with my oldest. I have apologized for them being put

in that situation and have given them the same or similar examples of how best

to address this should she try to continue to use them as a mode of

communication. They definitely know that they have done nothing wrong, at least

from our end. I don't trust mymomzilla from thinking and acting otherwise on her

end. That is why we have also put in place a safety plan for our kids to follow

should it go badly. Now if that isn't sad nothing is!

>

> >

> > Subject: Re: What to do about grandchildren?

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 7:05 PM

> > Thank you to those who took the time

> > to respond to me. The saga continues. Mymomzilla again

> > brought up the return of these items with my oldest who did

> > as instructed and told her that the message had been passed

> > on. I am hoping it ends there but know in my gut that as

> > long as there is contact between my children and mymomzilla

> > it wont.

> >

> > She is still supposed to take them out for lunch on

> > Saturday and they still want to go. That is the only reason

> > that I have not called it off and told her not to contact

> > any of us ever again. The bottom line is that she wants

> > engagement and I will not give her that, not even to tell

> > her that she is precariously close to losing her

> > grandchildren all together. I will assure you all that if

> > she blows up during this lunch visit it will be her last

> > visit. My kids don't  deserve to be anything but loved

> > and cherished by her and that is not what she gives them.

> >

> > I have apologized to my oldest for being put in this

> > position and given them a little bit more background about

> > why things are the way they are. My oldest has a petty good

> > handle on who mymomzilla is and at least for now is prepared

> > to put up with her crap but even they are starting to

> > question that. Who wouldn't?

> >

> > In the meantime my wife and I will be on eggshells the

> > entire time our kids are with her ready to rescue them if

> > need be. We have discussed with our oldest a safe exit plan

> > and should the need arise will enact it without hesitation.

> > As I type and reread this I can't help but think both that

> > this is absurd for any of this to be necessary and how sad

> > it is that in fact it is absolutely necessary.

> >

> > Keep your fingers crossed, I know ours will be.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @...

> > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE

> > GROUP.

> >

> > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call

> > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to

> > “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and

> > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can

> > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

> >

> > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community

> > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

You're welcome.

And your kids are lucky to have you as a parent!

>

> Subject: Re: What to do about grandchildren?

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Saturday, March 27, 2010, 3:55 PM

> Thanks so much Ninera for your spot

> on input. In fact I have had that conversation several times

> with my oldest. I have apologized for them being put in that

> situation and have given them the same or similar examples

> of how best to address this should she try to continue to

> use them as a mode of communication. They definitely know

> that they have done nothing wrong, at least from our end. I

> don't trust mymomzilla from thinking and acting otherwise on

> her end. That is why we have also put in place a safety plan

> for our kids to follow should it go badly. Now if that isn't

> sad nothing is!

>

>

> >

> > >

> > > Subject: Re: What to do about

> grandchildren?

> > > To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > > Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 7:05 PM

> > > Thank you to those who took the time

> > > to respond to me. The saga continues. Mymomzilla

> again

> > > brought up the return of these items with my

> oldest who did

> > > as instructed and told her that the message had

> been passed

> > > on. I am hoping it ends there but know in my gut

> that as

> > > long as there is contact between my children and

> mymomzilla

> > > it wont.

> > >

> > > She is still supposed to take them out for lunch

> on

> > > Saturday and they still want to go. That is the

> only reason

> > > that I have not called it off and told her not to

> contact

> > > any of us ever again. The bottom line is that she

> wants

> > > engagement and I will not give her that, not even

> to tell

> > > her that she is precariously close to losing her

> > > grandchildren all together. I will assure you all

> that if

> > > she blows up during this lunch visit it will be

> her last

> > > visit. My kids don't  deserve to be anything

> but loved

> > > and cherished by her and that is not what she

> gives them.

> > >

> > > I have apologized to my oldest for being put in

> this

> > > position and given them a little bit more

> background about

> > > why things are the way they are. My oldest has a

> petty good

> > > handle on who mymomzilla is and at least for now

> is prepared

> > > to put up with her crap but even they are

> starting to

> > > question that. Who wouldn't?

> > >

> > > In the meantime my wife and I will be on

> eggshells the

> > > entire time our kids are with her ready to rescue

> them if

> > > need be. We have discussed with our oldest a safe

> exit plan

> > > and should the need arise will enact it without

> hesitation.

> > > As I type and reread this I can't help but think

> both that

> > > this is absurd for any of this to be necessary

> and how sad

> > > it is that in fact it is absolutely necessary.

> > >

> > > Keep your fingers crossed, I know ours will be.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ------------------------------------

> > >

> > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for

> help at @...

> > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT

> Respond ON THE

> > > GROUP.

> > >

> > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on

> Eggshells, " call

> > > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We

> also refer to

> > > “Understanding the Borderline

> Mother� (Lawson) and

> > > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,�

> (Roth) which you can

> > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO

> community!

> > >

> > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online

> Community

> > > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo!

> Groups Links

> > >

> > >

> > >     WTOAdultChildren1-fullfeatured

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

> SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE

> GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call

> 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to

> “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and

> “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can

> find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community

> and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Hi Ross,

Yes grandchildren are a tricky one. I think you have done so well to have let

them have contact for as long as you have. I really liked what you said about

holding back from wanting to ring her and blast her as you know that is what she

wanted.

I get sick of all the games too. I have been letting my 8 year old have contact

with Nada. I am LC and can't even handle that anymore because of the games.

Now I have to make the decision what to do about my daughter and her contact as

I don't want her the meat in the sandwich. Then I don't want her to come back

at me one day when she is older and hold it against me. Nadas have a great way

of manipulating adults so children will be an easy target.

My Nada just sent my daughter a card for easter with money as usual and all the

I love yous. A letter with no mention of my husband or myself. She asked her

to ring her sometime. I was so mad and like you wanted to send it back or ring

her and tell her not to use my daughter to get at me. It hurt so much watching

my daughter open the card and see her so excited about the money.

It was like Nada did it again, buying love and manipulating my daughter to make

her believe she is so wonderful.

Do your children see through Nada? I feel bad trying to make my daughter see

through her. I say things like " Nanny is good at buying gifts and giving money

but wouldn't you prefer her to visit and have time with you? "

It just comes out sometimes. Now I am at a stage I can't do the LC anymore

because every special occasion that comes around that I should be enjoying with

my family is ruined because of Nada. This is the only time we contact so there

is anxiety leading up to it then the game begins to see who makes the move then

the anger response after that. Then it takes all my energy to make myself feel

better than it happens all over again next special occasion.

To me it seems like I am never going to get better and heal until I go NC and

also stop my daughter from contact too.

Has anyone ever had their children come back at them after many years of NC with

Nada to blame you for taking them away? Has anyone ever had Nada win their child

over years later by poisoning them about you? Has anyone every had their child

contact Nada by themselves when they got older?

Lots of questions I know but it seems I am confused what to do as I don't want

it to come back and bite me.

I know I have to do what is right for this given day and not look into the

future or the past.

I am so sick of wasting my time and energy on all this stuff.

Thanks Ross for bringing up this subject. I know I went on to talk about my

experience but like you I have no answers and want help with this one.

Kazam

>

> It's been a while since I've been here. This has always been a source of

support and information that I have found instrumental in my dealing with my BPD

mother whom I not-so-affectionately refer to as mymomzilla.

>

> I have had NC with her since Oct. 06. I do however have three beautiful

children who loved their grandmother and were not targets of hers so we allowed

them to continue having contact with her. The kids are now 10, 12 and the oldest

just turned 17. As they get older they are noticing more and more how difficult

their grandmother can be and it is effecting their desire to talk to her let

alone see her. My 12 year old received a birthday card from mymomzilla and

instead of being excited about the potential birthday treat enclosed they were

trepidatious and conflicted about the fact that this now meant she had to call

her to thank her for this. Calling her is always a crap shoot and they too have

come to learn this - sadly the hard way. They feel they have to be restrained

and worried about what they say because of how she may react. Is that a healthy

child-grandparent relationship? Not at all.

>

> Then last night while it was still my oldest's birthday mymomzilla called them

on their cell phone wishing them a terse happy birthday and then proceeded to

tell them that she once gave my wife a fancy watch and some special dishes and

that she now wants them back and for my child to see what they could do about

that. This stuff was given almost 10 years ago and now all of the sudden she

wants them back? This is nothing more than another salvo on her part; a power

play and attempt to get a rise out of me and I fully intend to ignore it. That

does not negate how utterly inappropriate it was to go through my child on this.

I can live with the idea that she wants to strip me of any kind of fond memory I

may have by trying to remove anything nice that she may have done for us in the

past. She gave some money towards our now 9 year old vehicle, is she going to go

after that too? Right now I wouldn't put it past her to start reclaiming

anything and everything she thinks she had a hand in.

>

> The only good thing about this is that I feel an odd sense of calm about it

all. I am boiling over the fact that she chose to go through my child in such a

inappropriate way. I am considering that my younger kids are no longer safe in

her company. And they are all supposed to go out for lunch with her next week.

Yikes! I am angry that this is even a consideration. BUT at the same time I am

calm in the knowledge that this is the raving of a lunatic and I intend to chalk

it up to just that and ignore it. Several years ago there is no way I could have

done this and would have seethed for days on this contemplating what I was going

to say and do about it. Now I am content to ignore it knowing that to do

anything else would simply feed into it. I have told my child, should they be

speaking to her again, to simply tell her that the message had been passed on

and to leave it at that. To acknowledge it beyond that only gives her more fuel

to continue with more crap.

>

> Yes I want to phone her up and rip a strip off of her for involving my child.

Maybe as their father that is what I should be doing. I also know full well that

as is the case with most borderline personalities that is exactly what she

wants. Knowing that is what has allowed me to feel this calmness and contentment

with my stance of simply ignoring it. Calling her would give her the

satisfaction that she finally found a way to get a rise out of me; to get me to

break my non contact. The truly scary part is now wondering just how far she's

prepared to go to get that rise. My silence will probably only escalate her

further. Will that only serve to put my kids in jeopardy? That will be

unacceptable and will only result in her not being allowed to have anything to

do with them either. So sad isn't it?

>

> After rereading this I am worried that I do indeed need to protect my kids

more. Am I hanging them out on a limb by letting them maintain contact with her?

That is always a possibility when dealing with her. The truth is that I think

they would could live with not having anything to do with her. So why am I

putting my kids out there like this? Mostly because despite all of this they

still care for her and want to see her albeit only once in a while. Oh what to

do? Thus far I have simply been letting them dictate this but I will say for the

record that should she step out of line during their next visit with her it will

most definitely be their last visit. I would be negligent as a loving caring

parent to not make that call.

>

> I guess after all of that my question is whether anyone else has found

themselves in this kind if situation, how did you handle it and am I nuts for

even allowing it to go on?

>

[Guest guest]

My daughter is now 12.  A couple of years ago, she looked at me and said,

" Mommy, was grandma born with something wrong with her brain? " .  Kids

understand things more than you realize.  I'm not contact with my nada and my

daughter understands why.  My son is only 6 but doesn't even ask.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Wed, March 31, 2010 5:18:34 PM

Subject: Re: What to do about grandchildren?

 

Hi Ross,

Yes grandchildren are a tricky one. I think you have done so well to have let

them have contact for as long as you have. I really liked what you said about

holding back from wanting to ring her and blast her as you know that is what she

wanted.

I get sick of all the games too. I have been letting my 8 year old have contact

with Nada. I am LC and can't even handle that anymore because of the games.

Now I have to make the decision what to do about my daughter and her contact as

I don't want her the meat in the sandwich. Then I don't want her to come back at

me one day when she is older and hold it against me. Nadas have a great way of

manipulating adults so children will be an easy target.

My Nada just sent my daughter a card for easter with money as usual and all the

I love yous. A letter with no mention of my husband or myself. She asked her to

ring her sometime. I was so mad and like you wanted to send it back or ring her

and tell her not to use my daughter to get at me. It hurt so much watching my

daughter open the card and see her so excited about the money.

It was like Nada did it again, buying love and manipulating my daughter to make

her believe she is so wonderful.

Do your children see through Nada? I feel bad trying to make my daughter see

through her. I say things like " Nanny is good at buying gifts and giving money

but wouldn't you prefer her to visit and have time with you? "

It just comes out sometimes. Now I am at a stage I can't do the LC anymore

because every special occasion that comes around that I should be enjoying with

my family is ruined because of Nada. This is the only time we contact so there

is anxiety leading up to it then the game begins to see who makes the move then

the anger response after that. Then it takes all my energy to make myself feel

better than it happens all over again next special occasion.

To me it seems like I am never going to get better and heal until I go NC and

also stop my daughter from contact too.

Has anyone ever had their children come back at them after many years of NC with

Nada to blame you for taking them away? Has anyone ever had Nada win their child

over years later by poisoning them about you? Has anyone every had their child

contact Nada by themselves when they got older?

Lots of questions I know but it seems I am confused what to do as I don't want

it to come back and bite me.

I know I have to do what is right for this given day and not look into the

future or the past.

I am so sick of wasting my time and energy on all this stuff.

Thanks Ross for bringing up this subject. I know I went on to talk about my

experience but like you I have no answers and want help with this one.

Kazam

>

> It's been a while since I've been here. This has always been a source of

support and information that I have found instrumental in my dealing with my BPD

mother whom I not-so-affectionate ly refer to as mymomzilla.

>

> I have had NC with her since Oct. 06. I do however have three beautiful

children who loved their grandmother and were not targets of hers so we allowed

them to continue having contact with her. The kids are now 10, 12 and the oldest

just turned 17. As they get older they are noticing more and more how difficult

their grandmother can be and it is effecting their desire to talk to her let

alone see her. My 12 year old received a birthday card from mymomzilla and

instead of being excited about the potential birthday treat enclosed they were

trepidatious and conflicted about the fact that this now meant she had to call

her to thank her for this. Calling her is always a crap shoot and they too have

come to learn this - sadly the hard way. They feel they have to be restrained

and worried about what they say because of how she may react. Is that a healthy

child-grandparent relationship? Not at all.

>

> Then last night while it was still my oldest's birthday mymomzilla called them

on their cell phone wishing them a terse happy birthday and then proceeded to

tell them that she once gave my wife a fancy watch and some special dishes and

that she now wants them back and for my child to see what they could do about

that. This stuff was given almost 10 years ago and now all of the sudden she

wants them back? This is nothing more than another salvo on her part; a power

play and attempt to get a rise out of me and I fully intend to ignore it. That

does not negate how utterly inappropriate it was to go through my child on this.

I can live with the idea that she wants to strip me of any kind of fond memory I

may have by trying to remove anything nice that she may have done for us in the

past. She gave some money towards our now 9 year old vehicle, is she going to go

after that too? Right now I wouldn't put it past her to start reclaiming

anything and

everything she thinks she had a hand in.

>

> The only good thing about this is that I feel an odd sense of calm about it

all. I am boiling over the fact that she chose to go through my child in such a

inappropriate way. I am considering that my younger kids are no longer safe in

her company. And they are all supposed to go out for lunch with her next week.

Yikes! I am angry that this is even a consideration. BUT at the same time I am

calm in the knowledge that this is the raving of a lunatic and I intend to chalk

it up to just that and ignore it. Several years ago there is no way I could have

done this and would have seethed for days on this contemplating what I was going

to say and do about it. Now I am content to ignore it knowing that to do

anything else would simply feed into it. I have told my child, should they be

speaking to her again, to simply tell her that the message had been passed on

and to leave it at that. To acknowledge it beyond that only gives her more fuel

to continue with more

crap.

>

> Yes I want to phone her up and rip a strip off of her for involving my child.

Maybe as their father that is what I should be doing. I also know full well that

as is the case with most borderline personalities that is exactly what she

wants. Knowing that is what has allowed me to feel this calmness and contentment

with my stance of simply ignoring it. Calling her would give her the

satisfaction that she finally found a way to get a rise out of me; to get me to

break my non contact. The truly scary part is now wondering just how far she's

prepared to go to get that rise. My silence will probably only escalate her

further. Will that only serve to put my kids in jeopardy? That will be

unacceptable and will only result in her not being allowed to have anything to

do with them either. So sad isn't it?

>

> After rereading this I am worried that I do indeed need to protect my kids

more. Am I hanging them out on a limb by letting them maintain contact with her?

That is always a possibility when dealing with her. The truth is that I think

they would could live with not having anything to do with her. So why am I

putting my kids out there like this? Mostly because despite all of this they

still care for her and want to see her albeit only once in a while. Oh what to

do? Thus far I have simply been letting them dictate this but I will say for the

record that should she step out of line during their next visit with her it will

most definitely be their last visit. I would be negligent as a loving caring

parent to not make that call.

>

> I guess after all of that my question is whether anyone else has found

themselves in this kind if situation, how did you handle it and am I nuts for

even allowing it to go on?

>

[Guest guest]

LOL smart kid !!! :-)

Jackie

My daughter is now 12. A couple of years ago, she looked at me and said,

" Mommy, was grandma born with something wrong with her brain? " . Kids

understand things more than you realize. I'm not contact with my nada and my

daughter understands why. My son is only 6 but doesn't even ask.

[Guest guest]

Kazam - I have 2 children (7 & 9 yrs old) and have struggled with the *same

exact* questions you are asking. I went NC last summer, and my nada and dad

have sent the girls all sorts of cards and gifts, never once inquiring about me

or my husband. Never once recognizing that they need to re-establish some sort

of trust with me before I can trust them with my kids! The cards have all had

the same messages " please call us - we miss you so much - we are so sad we can't

see you " etc...

What I've done (because I've gotten some really great advice from this group!):

1) Screen all the mail. My kids have not seen any cards that have manipulative

messages. Those cards go right in the trash. 2) I tell my kids that any time

they miss grandma and grandpa, they can write them a letter, draw them a picture

or send them an email. No phone calls (because at this point I would need to be

on the phone too). My kids have not been inspired to do this very often, only

when they get a gift in the mail and are obliged to write a thank you note. 3)

I've explained to my kids in very simple terms why mommy and daddy are having a

" time-out " from grandma and grandpa. My oldest daughter completely gets it, and

has always sensed that something was " off " with her grandma. She gets the idea

that " grandma's brain does not work the same as other people's brains, and

sometimes she says mean things without thinking first " . My youngest does not

quite get it, she has some abandonment issues (she was adopted) and the

discussions we have about her " missing grandma and grandpa " always seem to turn

into sadness about her birthmother. I'm struggling a bit with this one, but try

to keep open, honest discussions a priority and really validate her feelings.

Going NC has been THE BEST decision for ME. I have made more progress in

healing and understanding my nada's BPD than I had in YEARS of therapy. It has

been a lot of work, but I am much less stressed, having more fun with my kids,

having a better relationship with my husband, and enjoying life more. It has

been empowering and healing for me. My kids, I'm sure notice this.

What to do when the kids get older? I can easily see my nada splitting my kids

- my oldest speaks her mind, my youngest worships her grandma because she loves

to test limits, and grandma always breaks the limits ( " oh sure dear, you can

have candy right before dinner! " " I know your mommy doesn't let you do xyz, but

you can do it with grandma! " ). My need to protect my kids seems to outweigh my

need to let them have a relationship with their grandparents at the moment. I

think as they get older, I'll just have to keep re-evaluating the situation,

based on what my kids understand and want. I won't ever force my kids to be NC

- they get to choose. But I also get to be honest with them about why I have

chosen NC or LC.

If someday my kids resent me for my NC, I'm keeping a journal of my childhood

memories and experiences growing up with a BPD nada. When my kids are adults, I

will let them read it and ask them " if you were me, would you want to protect

your children, or let them have contact with their grandparents? " I also have

lots of friends and extended family who can back me up - they all know how crazy

nada is, and have their OWN stories they can share. My nada may try to poison

my kids against me, but I don't really think she will succeed.

Of course, we can't really control the future - but I'm trying to give my kids

tools to deal with it. Educating myself about BPD, reading posts on this group

have all helped me find some clarity in dealing with this. I think that as my

kids get older, I can educate them (age-appropriately) about BPD just as I would

teach them about diabetes or alcoholism or cancer.

Don't know if this is helpful - it has been a process for me. It is really sad

to have to be in this situation, that's for sure!

Best wishes,

-

> >

> > It's been a while since I've been here. This has always been a source of

support and information that I have found instrumental in my dealing with my BPD

mother whom I not-so-affectionately refer to as mymomzilla.

> >

> > I have had NC with her since Oct. 06. I do however have three beautiful

children who loved their grandmother and were not targets of hers so we allowed

them to continue having contact with her. The kids are now 10, 12 and the oldest

just turned 17. As they get older they are noticing more and more how difficult

their grandmother can be and it is effecting their desire to talk to her let

alone see her. My 12 year old received a birthday card from mymomzilla and

instead of being excited about the potential birthday treat enclosed they were

trepidatious and conflicted about the fact that this now meant she had to call

her to thank her for this. Calling her is always a crap shoot and they too have

come to learn this - sadly the hard way. They feel they have to be restrained

and worried about what they say because of how she may react. Is that a healthy

child-grandparent relationship? Not at all.

> >

> > Then last night while it was still my oldest's birthday mymomzilla called

them on their cell phone wishing them a terse happy birthday and then proceeded

to tell them that she once gave my wife a fancy watch and some special dishes

and that she now wants them back and for my child to see what they could do

about that. This stuff was given almost 10 years ago and now all of the sudden

she wants them back? This is nothing more than another salvo on her part; a

power play and attempt to get a rise out of me and I fully intend to ignore it.

That does not negate how utterly inappropriate it was to go through my child on

this. I can live with the idea that she wants to strip me of any kind of fond

memory I may have by trying to remove anything nice that she may have done for

us in the past. She gave some money towards our now 9 year old vehicle, is she

going to go after that too? Right now I wouldn't put it past her to start

reclaiming anything and everything she thinks she had a hand in.

> >

> > The only good thing about this is that I feel an odd sense of calm about it

all. I am boiling over the fact that she chose to go through my child in such a

inappropriate way. I am considering that my younger kids are no longer safe in

her company. And they are all supposed to go out for lunch with her next week.

Yikes! I am angry that this is even a consideration. BUT at the same time I am

calm in the knowledge that this is the raving of a lunatic and I intend to chalk

it up to just that and ignore it. Several years ago there is no way I could have

done this and would have seethed for days on this contemplating what I was going

to say and do about it. Now I am content to ignore it knowing that to do

anything else would simply feed into it. I have told my child, should they be

speaking to her again, to simply tell her that the message had been passed on

and to leave it at that. To acknowledge it beyond that only gives her more fuel

to continue with more crap.

> >

> > Yes I want to phone her up and rip a strip off of her for involving my

child. Maybe as their father that is what I should be doing. I also know full

well that as is the case with most borderline personalities that is exactly what

she wants. Knowing that is what has allowed me to feel this calmness and

contentment with my stance of simply ignoring it. Calling her would give her the

satisfaction that she finally found a way to get a rise out of me; to get me to

break my non contact. The truly scary part is now wondering just how far she's

prepared to go to get that rise. My silence will probably only escalate her

further. Will that only serve to put my kids in jeopardy? That will be

unacceptable and will only result in her not being allowed to have anything to

do with them either. So sad isn't it?

> >

> > After rereading this I am worried that I do indeed need to protect my kids

more. Am I hanging them out on a limb by letting them maintain contact with her?

That is always a possibility when dealing with her. The truth is that I think

they would could live with not having anything to do with her. So why am I

putting my kids out there like this? Mostly because despite all of this they

still care for her and want to see her albeit only once in a while. Oh what to

do? Thus far I have simply been letting them dictate this but I will say for the

record that should she step out of line during their next visit with her it will

most definitely be their last visit. I would be negligent as a loving caring

parent to not make that call.

> >

> > I guess after all of that my question is whether anyone else has found

themselves in this kind if situation, how did you handle it and am I nuts for

even allowing it to go on?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your sharing,

It sure is a journey isn't it? It is hard to watch your children love the

person who has harmed you so much. I have to go NC for now as Lc is way too

hard. I too will pre-read the letters. At the moment I can't even let my

daughter have contact. If she talks about her I will do as you suggested and

get her to write a letter maybe never post it. The only thing in posting it, is

that might encourage Nada to write again. The anxiety I feel about the next

moves and how she will respond is just driving me nuts.

I think I need NC from us all at the moment to get some peace. Like you I am a

better wife and mother when I don't have to deal with the Nada mind games.

My Nada is wonderful when I am being the Golden Child but I can't do it anymore.

Sad thing is I know I could go back and stop all this by being who she wants me

to be and accepting her behaviour, but I can't do that either. Sometimes I

don't know what is harder.

Thanks again,

Kazam

> > >

> > > It's been a while since I've been here. This has always been a source of

support and information that I have found instrumental in my dealing with my BPD

mother whom I not-so-affectionately refer to as mymomzilla.

> > >

> > > I have had NC with her since Oct. 06. I do however have three beautiful

children who loved their grandmother and were not targets of hers so we allowed

them to continue having contact with her. The kids are now 10, 12 and the oldest

just turned 17. As they get older they are noticing more and more how difficult

their grandmother can be and it is effecting their desire to talk to her let

alone see her. My 12 year old received a birthday card from mymomzilla and

instead of being excited about the potential birthday treat enclosed they were

trepidatious and conflicted about the fact that this now meant she had to call

her to thank her for this. Calling her is always a crap shoot and they too have

come to learn this - sadly the hard way. They feel they have to be restrained

and worried about what they say because of how she may react. Is that a healthy

child-grandparent relationship? Not at all.

> > >

> > > Then last night while it was still my oldest's birthday mymomzilla called

them on their cell phone wishing them a terse happy birthday and then proceeded

to tell them that she once gave my wife a fancy watch and some special dishes

and that she now wants them back and for my child to see what they could do

about that. This stuff was given almost 10 years ago and now all of the sudden

she wants them back? This is nothing more than another salvo on her part; a

power play and attempt to get a rise out of me and I fully intend to ignore it.

That does not negate how utterly inappropriate it was to go through my child on

this. I can live with the idea that she wants to strip me of any kind of fond

memory I may have by trying to remove anything nice that she may have done for

us in the past. She gave some money towards our now 9 year old vehicle, is she

going to go after that too? Right now I wouldn't put it past her to start

reclaiming anything and everything she thinks she had a hand in.

> > >

> > > The only good thing about this is that I feel an odd sense of calm about

it all. I am boiling over the fact that she chose to go through my child in such

a inappropriate way. I am considering that my younger kids are no longer safe in

her company. And they are all supposed to go out for lunch with her next week.

Yikes! I am angry that this is even a consideration. BUT at the same time I am

calm in the knowledge that this is the raving of a lunatic and I intend to chalk

it up to just that and ignore it. Several years ago there is no way I could have

done this and would have seethed for days on this contemplating what I was going

to say and do about it. Now I am content to ignore it knowing that to do

anything else would simply feed into it. I have told my child, should they be

speaking to her again, to simply tell her that the message had been passed on

and to leave it at that. To acknowledge it beyond that only gives her more fuel

to continue with more crap.

> > >

> > > Yes I want to phone her up and rip a strip off of her for involving my

child. Maybe as their father that is what I should be doing. I also know full

well that as is the case with most borderline personalities that is exactly what

she wants. Knowing that is what has allowed me to feel this calmness and

contentment with my stance of simply ignoring it. Calling her would give her the

satisfaction that she finally found a way to get a rise out of me; to get me to

break my non contact. The truly scary part is now wondering just how far she's

prepared to go to get that rise. My silence will probably only escalate her

further. Will that only serve to put my kids in jeopardy? That will be

unacceptable and will only result in her not being allowed to have anything to

do with them either. So sad isn't it?

> > >

> > > After rereading this I am worried that I do indeed need to protect my kids

more. Am I hanging them out on a limb by letting them maintain contact with her?

That is always a possibility when dealing with her. The truth is that I think

they would could live with not having anything to do with her. So why am I

putting my kids out there like this? Mostly because despite all of this they

still care for her and want to see her albeit only once in a while. Oh what to

do? Thus far I have simply been letting them dictate this but I will say for the

record that should she step out of line during their next visit with her it will

most definitely be their last visit. I would be negligent as a loving caring

parent to not make that call.

> > >

> > > I guess after all of that my question is whether anyone else has found

themselves in this kind if situation, how did you handle it and am I nuts for

even allowing it to go on?

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kazam - I can certainly relate to everything you just wrote! When you say " The

anxiety I feel about the next moves and how she will respond is just driving me

nuts. " - this is *exactly* what drives my stress level through the roof! My

nada is also wonderful when I'm behaving on her terms, but I have never been

able to predict exactly when something will set her off or what. So trying to

be someone Nada wants me to be DOES NOT WORK EITHER. Damned if we do, damned if

we don't!

At first going NC was hard for me - I had to go through a grieving process. But

after a few months, I started to notice how peaceful part of my life had become.

I didn't have to watch my every move, worry about every decision, or constantly

panic that I was doing something wrong, because Nada was not around to judge and

not in contact to have an opinion. Weight lifted from my shoulders! It is

still not easy, but I'm definitely in a better place to heal.

Good luck to you and your family,

-

[Guest guest]

Thanks ,

I relate to you very much. I am about to go NC. Like I said I couldn't handle

LC. I have done a bit of grieving and LC gave me time to adjust. Like you I

want peace and healing and to be rid of the games and anxiety. It will hard but

like you said, damned if we do damned if we don't. NC has to be easier I am

hoping.

This group is so much support.

Take care of yourself too,

Kazam x

>

[Guest guest]

Kazam I hope you find some peace going NC. My BPD fada died at least 20 years

ago but the delusions live on in my door mat nada and BPD sister. I live 2000

miles from them and I make a phone call to my nada once a week for 30 minutes.

I didn't intend to set it up this way. It just happened with being busy and

being tired of the drama. The last time I visited was two years ago and quite

frankly it took me weeks to get back to normal. Sometimes, if I am not on guard,

even that 30 minute call can mess with my head. I deal with it though because

nada is 89 and I feel not long for this world. Your kids will fare better with a

less stressed mom in the long run. Keep them involved in their own activities

and life and nananada will not be important.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

I am new to this forum but your post really resonates with me. My daughter is

only 4 and it wasn't until her birth that I instinctively began to accept that

my mother was never, ever going to be the mother I wished I had. It was also

during this time that I stopped trying to placate her and refused to succumb to

her violent rages and bullying behaviour. This, of course, made my mother more

angry and vicious and myself more bewildered and upset. My mother, of course,

denies everything and claims that there is something wrong with me! Anyway, I

recently started seeing a therapist, initially to cope with a recent

miscarriage, and have discovered that my mother is in fact text-book 'invisible

borderline.' I am 33 years old and have been blaming myself for not being good

enough my whole life.

In spite of all this, my mother is much kinder to my daughter and doesn't

criticise her and rage at her the way she did with me ever since I can remember.

I have decided to allow her to have a relationship with my daughter and let my

daughter make up her own mind when she is old enough. Of course, I would never

allow this if I thought my mother would harm her, but I know she wouldn't - I am

the one who suffers! Right now, my aim is to somehow forgive my mother for

everything she has done to me and establish clear, safe boundaries to protect

myself. I understand my mother has a serious mental illness that has,

ultimately, ruined her life much more than it has mine. But I'm still quite

bitter and can't understand how she cannot see what she has done, and continues

to do. She truly believes everyone else is at fault and that I am delusional.

It's so hard when grandkids are involved. I guess you have to figure out why you

don't want your BP parent not to be involved. Is it really for the sake of the

kids, or because you want to punish your parent for being so revolting (which is

quite tempting!). Also, it sounds like your kids are old enough now to

understand what is going on a little more. Well done for being such a thoughtful

and caring parent!

W

>

> It's been a while since I've been here. This has always been a source of

support and information that I have found instrumental in my dealing with my BPD

mother whom I not-so-affectionately refer to as mymomzilla.

>

> I have had NC with her since Oct. 06. I do however have three beautiful

children who loved their grandmother and were not targets of hers so we allowed

them to continue having contact with her. The kids are now 10, 12 and the oldest

just turned 17. As they get older they are noticing more and more how difficult

their grandmother can be and it is effecting their desire to talk to her let

alone see her. My 12 year old received a birthday card from mymomzilla and

instead of being excited about the potential birthday treat enclosed they were

trepidatious and conflicted about the fact that this now meant she had to call

her to thank her for this. Calling her is always a crap shoot and they too have

come to learn this - sadly the hard way. They feel they have to be restrained

and worried about what they say because of how she may react. Is that a healthy

child-grandparent relationship? Not at all.

>

> Then last night while it was still my oldest's birthday mymomzilla called them

on their cell phone wishing them a terse happy birthday and then proceeded to

tell them that she once gave my wife a fancy watch and some special dishes and

that she now wants them back and for my child to see what they could do about

that. This stuff was given almost 10 years ago and now all of the sudden she

wants them back? This is nothing more than another salvo on her part; a power

play and attempt to get a rise out of me and I fully intend to ignore it. That

does not negate how utterly inappropriate it was to go through my child on this.

I can live with the idea that she wants to strip me of any kind of fond memory I

may have by trying to remove anything nice that she may have done for us in the

past. She gave some money towards our now 9 year old vehicle, is she going to go

after that too? Right now I wouldn't put it past her to start reclaiming

anything and everything she thinks she had a hand in.

>

> The only good thing about this is that I feel an odd sense of calm about it

all. I am boiling over the fact that she chose to go through my child in such a

inappropriate way. I am considering that my younger kids are no longer safe in

her company. And they are all supposed to go out for lunch with her next week.

Yikes! I am angry that this is even a consideration. BUT at the same time I am

calm in the knowledge that this is the raving of a lunatic and I intend to chalk

it up to just that and ignore it. Several years ago there is no way I could have

done this and would have seethed for days on this contemplating what I was going

to say and do about it. Now I am content to ignore it knowing that to do

anything else would simply feed into it. I have told my child, should they be

speaking to her again, to simply tell her that the message had been passed on

and to leave it at that. To acknowledge it beyond that only gives her more fuel

to continue with more crap.

>

> Yes I want to phone her up and rip a strip off of her for involving my child.

Maybe as their father that is what I should be doing. I also know full well that

as is the case with most borderline personalities that is exactly what she

wants. Knowing that is what has allowed me to feel this calmness and contentment

with my stance of simply ignoring it. Calling her would give her the

satisfaction that she finally found a way to get a rise out of me; to get me to

break my non contact. The truly scary part is now wondering just how far she's

prepared to go to get that rise. My silence will probably only escalate her

further. Will that only serve to put my kids in jeopardy? That will be

unacceptable and will only result in her not being allowed to have anything to

do with them either. So sad isn't it?

>

> After rereading this I am worried that I do indeed need to protect my kids

more. Am I hanging them out on a limb by letting them maintain contact with her?

That is always a possibility when dealing with her. The truth is that I think

they would could live with not having anything to do with her. So why am I

putting my kids out there like this? Mostly because despite all of this they

still care for her and want to see her albeit only once in a while. Oh what to

do? Thus far I have simply been letting them dictate this but I will say for the

record that should she step out of line during their next visit with her it will

most definitely be their last visit. I would be negligent as a loving caring

parent to not make that call.

>

> I guess after all of that my question is whether anyone else has found

themselves in this kind if situation, how did you handle it and am I nuts for

even allowing it to go on?

>

[Guest guest]

Great response ninera ~ I haven't been down this road quite yet (no kids), but

I hope to store this in my memory banks should there be any grandchildren

someday and triangular conversations...

Thanks for the suggestion & solution!

Dolly

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the feedback. Why do Nada's live so LONG???? Carol if that is the

case I have another 29 years of Nada BS if I don't go NC. My Nada is also

wonderful to my daughter. She also has been known to have panic attacks around

her and play games like walking ou the door saying she is leaving in the middle

of bathing her when she was small to see my daughter's response. Of course

daughter cried and Nada felt loved.

Nada lives away and LC for a year became too hard even with phone calls to my

daughter. The games are on now and she is using her to get at me. It is too

much for all of us and was ruining my special occasions as this was the only

time we made contact.

I couldn't do the once a week phone calls as like Carol I would be anxious

before and re-living the whole uncomfortable conversation for days after in my

head. I just can't do it anymore.

I think we all have to do what is best and feels right in ourselves. This is

what I have to do for the now and it is one day at a time.

It is recovery and healing. I need a break from the madness. Who nows what

tomorrow will bring. That is what I love about the group, there are so many

loving caring people sharing their stories and giving us hope no matter which

road we take.

I send ove and prayers for everyone's healing and to make a better life for

ourselves. We all deserve it sooooooooo much.

Kazam x

> >

> > It's been a while since I've been here. This has always been a source of

support and information that I have found instrumental in my dealing with my BPD

mother whom I not-so-affectionately refer to as mymomzilla.

> >

> > I have had NC with her since Oct. 06. I do however have three beautiful

children who loved their grandmother and were not targets of hers so we allowed

them to continue having contact with her. The kids are now 10, 12 and the oldest

just turned 17. As they get older they are noticing more and more how difficult

their grandmother can be and it is effecting their desire to talk to her let

alone see her. My 12 year old received a birthday card from mymomzilla and

instead of being excited about the potential birthday treat enclosed they were

trepidatious and conflicted about the fact that this now meant she had to call

her to thank her for this. Calling her is always a crap shoot and they too have

come to learn this - sadly the hard way. They feel they have to be restrained

and worried about what they say because of how she may react. Is that a healthy

child-grandparent relationship? Not at all.

> >

> > Then last night while it was still my oldest's birthday mymomzilla called

them on their cell phone wishing them a terse happy birthday and then proceeded

to tell them that she once gave my wife a fancy watch and some special dishes

and that she now wants them back and for my child to see what they could do

about that. This stuff was given almost 10 years ago and now all of the sudden

she wants them back? This is nothing more than another salvo on her part; a

power play and attempt to get a rise out of me and I fully intend to ignore it.

That does not negate how utterly inappropriate it was to go through my child on

this. I can live with the idea that she wants to strip me of any kind of fond

memory I may have by trying to remove anything nice that she may have done for

us in the past. She gave some money towards our now 9 year old vehicle, is she

going to go after that too? Right now I wouldn't put it past her to start

reclaiming anything and everything she thinks she had a hand in.

> >

> > The only good thing about this is that I feel an odd sense of calm about it

all. I am boiling over the fact that she chose to go through my child in such a

inappropriate way. I am considering that my younger kids are no longer safe in

her company. And they are all supposed to go out for lunch with her next week.

Yikes! I am angry that this is even a consideration. BUT at the same time I am

calm in the knowledge that this is the raving of a lunatic and I intend to chalk

it up to just that and ignore it. Several years ago there is no way I could have

done this and would have seethed for days on this contemplating what I was going

to say and do about it. Now I am content to ignore it knowing that to do

anything else would simply feed into it. I have told my child, should they be

speaking to her again, to simply tell her that the message had been passed on

and to leave it at that. To acknowledge it beyond that only gives her more fuel

to continue with more crap.

> >

> > Yes I want to phone her up and rip a strip off of her for involving my

child. Maybe as their father that is what I should be doing. I also know full

well that as is the case with most borderline personalities that is exactly what

she wants. Knowing that is what has allowed me to feel this calmness and

contentment with my stance of simply ignoring it. Calling her would give her the

satisfaction that she finally found a way to get a rise out of me; to get me to

break my non contact. The truly scary part is now wondering just how far she's

prepared to go to get that rise. My silence will probably only escalate her

further. Will that only serve to put my kids in jeopardy? That will be

unacceptable and will only result in her not being allowed to have anything to

do with them either. So sad isn't it?

> >

> > After rereading this I am worried that I do indeed need to protect my kids

more. Am I hanging them out on a limb by letting them maintain contact with her?

That is always a possibility when dealing with her. The truth is that I think

they would could live with not having anything to do with her. So why am I

putting my kids out there like this? Mostly because despite all of this they

still care for her and want to see her albeit only once in a while. Oh what to

do? Thus far I have simply been letting them dictate this but I will say for the

record that should she step out of line during their next visit with her it will

most definitely be their last visit. I would be negligent as a loving caring

parent to not make that call.

> >

> > I guess after all of that my question is whether anyone else has found

themselves in this kind if situation, how did you handle it and am I nuts for

even allowing it to go on?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

LOL because only the good die young !! I know what you mean..my nada is

still going strong, and just as nasty at 85 !! I always said there's a

fight going on between god and the devil...neither wants her " you have to

take her, she'll fit right in down there " " I'm not taking her, she'll try

and take over, YOU take her, you made her that way " and so on...and until

it gets resolved, we're stuck with her here on Earth !!

Jackie

Thanks for the feedback. Why do Nada's live so LONG???? Carol if that is

the case I have another 29 years of Nada BS if I don't go NC. My Nada is

also wonderful to my daughter. She also has been known to have panic

attacks around her and play games like walking ou the door saying she is

leaving in the middle of bathing her when she was small to see my daughter's

response. Of course daughter cried and Nada felt loved.

Nada lives away and LC for a year became too hard even with phone calls to

my daughter. The games are on now and she is using her to get at me. It is

too much for all of us and was ruining my special occasions as this was the

only time we made contact.

I couldn't do the once a week phone calls as like Carol I would be anxious

before and re-living the whole uncomfortable conversation for days after in

my head. I just can't do it anymore.

I think we all have to do what is best and feels right in ourselves. This

is what I have to do for the now and it is one day at a time.

It is recovery and healing. I need a break from the madness. Who nows what

tomorrow will bring. That is what I love about the group, there are so many

loving caring people sharing their stories and giving us hope no matter

which road we take.

I send ove and prayers for everyone's healing and to make a better life for

ourselves. We all deserve it sooooooooo much.

Kazam x

[Guest guest]

" Why do Nada's live lo LONG???? "

This is a really good question. WTH? I was somewhat lucky in that my BPD fada

died quite a while ago.(20 some what years) I only have to deal with the nada

and sada now. I remember how awful it was to get calls from fada. I moved to

the west coast from the mid west when I was 21. I am almost 55 now. Even though

I moved they still would not leave me alone, spending all their vacations at my

house. Me unable to tell them no. I did not have my own vacation from work

until after his death. I remember what those phone calls were like and always

having to dread them. He was not speaking to me when he died. He had stopped

speaking to me because nada and him had a fight and he wanted to come live with

me and I told him no. He was hospitalized, medicated and nada and fada continued

on but I was painted black. I keep the weekly calls with my door mat mother all

surface because if I am real I am always invalidated and that isn't healthy for

me. In retrospect, the last ten years have been the best for me. I live my own

life now and living 2000 miles away from my FOO is really the best for me. Kazam

if you are happier going NC than that is the best. Your kids need a fully

emotionally intact parent and it sounds like your nada could possible endanger

your little one.

> > >

> > > It's been a while since I've been here. This has always been a source of

support and information that I have found instrumental in my dealing with my BPD

mother whom I not-so-affectionately refer to as mymomzilla.

> > >

> > > I have had NC with her since Oct. 06. I do however have three beautiful

children who loved their grandmother and were not targets of hers so we allowed

them to continue having contact with her. The kids are now 10, 12 and the oldest

just turned 17. As they get older they are noticing more and more how difficult

their grandmother can be and it is effecting their desire to talk to her let

alone see her. My 12 year old received a birthday card from mymomzilla and

instead of being excited about the potential birthday treat enclosed they were

trepidatious and conflicted about the fact that this now meant she had to call

her to thank her for this. Calling her is always a crap shoot and they too have

come to learn this - sadly the hard way. They feel they have to be restrained

and worried about what they say because of how she may react. Is that a healthy

child-grandparent relationship? Not at all.

> > >

> > > Then last night while it was still my oldest's birthday mymomzilla called

them on their cell phone wishing them a terse happy birthday and then proceeded

to tell them that she once gave my wife a fancy watch and some special dishes

and that she now wants them back and for my child to see what they could do

about that. This stuff was given almost 10 years ago and now all of the sudden

she wants them back? This is nothing more than another salvo on her part; a

power play and attempt to get a rise out of me and I fully intend to ignore it.

That does not negate how utterly inappropriate it was to go through my child on

this. I can live with the idea that she wants to strip me of any kind of fond

memory I may have by trying to remove anything nice that she may have done for

us in the past. She gave some money towards our now 9 year old vehicle, is she

going to go after that too? Right now I wouldn't put it past her to start

reclaiming anything and everything she thinks she had a hand in.

> > >

> > > The only good thing about this is that I feel an odd sense of calm about

it all. I am boiling over the fact that she chose to go through my child in such

a inappropriate way. I am considering that my younger kids are no longer safe in

her company. And they are all supposed to go out for lunch with her next week.

Yikes! I am angry that this is even a consideration. BUT at the same time I am

calm in the knowledge that this is the raving of a lunatic and I intend to chalk

it up to just that and ignore it. Several years ago there is no way I could have

done this and would have seethed for days on this contemplating what I was going

to say and do about it. Now I am content to ignore it knowing that to do

anything else would simply feed into it. I have told my child, should they be

speaking to her again, to simply tell her that the message had been passed on

and to leave it at that. To acknowledge it beyond that only gives her more fuel

to continue with more crap.

> > >

> > > Yes I want to phone her up and rip a strip off of her for involving my

child. Maybe as their father that is what I should be doing. I also know full

well that as is the case with most borderline personalities that is exactly what

she wants. Knowing that is what has allowed me to feel this calmness and

contentment with my stance of simply ignoring it. Calling her would give her the

satisfaction that she finally found a way to get a rise out of me; to get me to

break my non contact. The truly scary part is now wondering just how far she's

prepared to go to get that rise. My silence will probably only escalate her

further. Will that only serve to put my kids in jeopardy? That will be

unacceptable and will only result in her not being allowed to have anything to

do with them either. So sad isn't it?

> > >

> > > After rereading this I am worried that I do indeed need to protect my kids

more. Am I hanging them out on a limb by letting them maintain contact with her?

That is always a possibility when dealing with her. The truth is that I think

they would could live with not having anything to do with her. So why am I

putting my kids out there like this? Mostly because despite all of this they

still care for her and want to see her albeit only once in a while. Oh what to

do? Thus far I have simply been letting them dictate this but I will say for the

record that should she step out of line during their next visit with her it will

most definitely be their last visit. I would be negligent as a loving caring

parent to not make that call.

> > >

> > > I guess after all of that my question is whether anyone else has found

themselves in this kind if situation, how did you handle it and am I nuts for

even allowing it to go on?

> > >

> >

>