Re: Re: The Bridge

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I haven't written in awhile because I've been away (actually in San Francisco)

and also have just been emotionally drained and feeling very depressed.

So funny that you wrote about this documentary because while I was in San

Francisco I watched it. My man was not feeling as though he wanted to watch it

because he feels too close to the topic. I had seen parts of it before but

watched it all the way through on Youtube. I remember the woman quoted like you

mentioned. But didn't see her because I think I was making dinner. But I think

I remember which guy you are talking about (Gene?).

His friend was talking about him wanting to find love, but he would place all

his hopes on these internet dates and it never turned out because he didn't know

how to choose people, and sounds like he didn't really have a sense of himself

*alone*. What got me at the end of this sequence was that a friend of his, or

family member (sister in law??) Said that it was ironic because he had a job

interview that morning; he could have had a job (and it was some sort of low

level job I forget what). As if that would have helped him have a reason to

live, or help his deep depression.

It was a very sad and compelling movie. And it really makes you wonder,

especially here given our topic, the family life of these people. There was a

woman too that was shown in *shadow* and she was talking about giving him

medication but then being afraid of getting caught having done that so she gave

it to him in a different container. She, though just a friend, left him when he

was expressing this need to kill himself, and didn't report him.....and then he

went and did it. Obviously she felt bad because she did not want to show her

face.

It was very strange and only hinted at the deeper levels of sadness and

depression and struggle in these people's families.

I drove over the Golden Gate only a few days ago, and I can see why people go

there to do this, it's very very beautiful and compelling. It gives you the

urge to fly just by being on it for some reason.

Anyway, I felt compelled to comment since I just watched this also, not three

days ago.

~patricia

Re: The Bridge

On youtube someone compiled the segments from the movie about Gene, big

WARNING here at the very end of the clip he is shown from a distance jumping off

the bridge so stop it before that if you need to. It isn't gory but quite

disturbing. I did misquote a bit - the woman speculates about his mothers

dependence on him but it wasn't something he'd said to her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRaix9rlzOg

>

> I just watched " The Bridge " the documentary on suicides at the Golden Gate

bridge. (it's on Hulu) It's a deeply moving film - I'm working through many

emotions in response to it, but there is one bit I just had to share here.

>

> There's one jumper that's profiled named Gene. My ears perked up right away

when they said he grew up just him and his mother, so close, and neither had any

significant relationship with anyone else. He stayed bonded to her till she

died. In the picture of the two of them you can see the crazy in her eyes and

the shy weariness in his. But I thought nahhhh I'm just projecting here. But

then it's revealed when he turned to his mother about his suicidal thoughts that

she told him *he had no right to do it after all she'd invested in him and

couldn't do that as long as she lived* can you believe? saying you are here to

serve me but feel free to off yourself after I'm dead! And sadly that's what

he did not long after after failing at attempts to find love and work. The

older female friend who reported what his mother said also said she believed

that his mother needed him as a child to help her continue to live and that he

figured out early on that was his role.

>

> Does any of this sound familiar? My heart broke over it and then I got

angry for him, for me, for everyone born to be a crutch to a parent.

>

>

>

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From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks for your email. Yeah....I've been pretty down...I guess it what is

called complicated grief. I keep thinking I will find a therapist soon and I

look up the names and then don't call. But I think I will this time. When I

visited my boyfriend I discovered that he has slept with some other woman

(women?) and it was a hard visit. It's a whole complicated but probably typical

situation especially with the distance.

So there is another thing put on my list of bad things lately (I hate to say

that but it's pretty literally true). I thought about it and it just brings

home to me that whole *father issue* of unavailability. And the *love you* but

can't *commit* thing.

On the movie...yeah, sometimes those kind of things make me feel somehow better;

I am not sure why. I think for me it's a realization that there are worse

situations in life. I kind of have gotten into reading about the Russian Gulags

too (god...I'm sure that says a lot about me! But I feel I have to run through

it somehow).

You are right about that woman in the movie; that maybe she was feeling

overwhelmed by this guy. I can see that. I guess I just had an immediate

reaction (I had seen that clip before and probably felt differently when I saw

it that time). It's hard not to personalize situations and project onto them.

Especially if that issue of *suicide* is within your experience in life.

And yeah...that bridge is almost surreal; it's so big and the bay is so

beautiful. Perhaps because it opens to the ocean when most bridges span a

river.

You mentioned depression; are you feeling that way these days? Or ongoing? I

would love to feel like my old self again, you know?

thanks again,

~patricia

Re: The Bridge

Hi , good to hear from you - I'd been wondering where you'd gone off

to. Sorry to hear you've been struggling with feeling bad. Did watching the

movie help any? I know it's weird, but it actually helped my depression to

watch it - it created a feeling of " Hell no, not me, those bastards aren't gonna

make me do it! " Those bastards being my FOO, former bullies, you name it. I

did feel very sad for the people and like you very disturbed by the lady

interviewed in shadow who said that she refused her friend's request to spend

time with her just after he'd said he was suicidal. OTOH, everyone has a right

to boundaries and perhaps she was overwhelmed with what he'd already shared, but

OTOH she was one of the last to ever see him alive. It gets complicated too

with people like BPD types who use suicide threats as a deliberate manipulation

ploy...kinda gives people with the real intention a harder time to be taken

seriously.

That's interesting what you felt about the bridge driving over it - I can see

too why people might choose it. It's guaranteed but also provides a last chance

for fate/God to intervene and stop them since it is so public.

> >

> > I just watched " The Bridge " the documentary on suicides at the Golden

Gate bridge. (it's on Hulu) It's a deeply moving film - I'm working through

many emotions in response to it, but there is one bit I just had to share here.

> >

> > There's one jumper that's profiled named Gene. My ears perked up right

away when they said he grew up just him and his mother, so close, and neither

had any significant relationship with anyone else. He stayed bonded to her till

she died. In the picture of the two of them you can see the crazy in her eyes

and the shy weariness in his. But I thought nahhhh I'm just projecting here.

But then it's revealed when he turned to his mother about his suicidal thoughts

that she told him *he had no right to do it after all she'd invested in him and

couldn't do that as long as she lived* can you believe? saying you are here to

serve me but feel free to off yourself after I'm dead! And sadly that's what

he did not long after after failing at attempts to find love and work. The

older female friend who reported what his mother said also said she believed

that his mother needed him as a child to help her continue to live and that he

figured out early on that was his role.

> >

> > Does any of this sound familiar? My heart broke over it and then I got

angry for him, for me, for everyone born to be a crutch to a parent.

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER

ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Yeah, the boyfriend thing...it is something he was going to hide from me but I

figured it out. It's funny how your mind works and picks things out (at least

my mind does...I pick out patterns and notice differences almost unconsciously).

We had talked about it before and to be honest I don't remember the conversation

because my mind is not working so great on memory these days (too much stress

and grief) and I know he was telling me this is what he was going to do. I did

not have it in me to say: well I am done with you then. Because I figure with

the distance there is no way to (or it is much harder to) make it up if that's

what we would do. If that makes sense.

But it does force the issue of: what does he want/ what do I want. It's hard

for me because I love him a lot. And he loves me a lot. But he is being

selfish and it is almost like a self destructive thing; like he wants to destroy

all good things around him(?).

I don't really know; I mean that is sort of what we talked about. As far as my

dynamic with all this, it could be what you said...just an old pattern playing

out with the sort of abandoning dad thing. But the problem is that within

patterns one forms relationships with people.

Yeah, depression...it's like this legacy from my childhood and how I was brought

up. It sucks because people who were not brought up this way do not seem to

understand it and I tend to think they get tired of me because they don't get

it; especially all that I have gone through in the past few years, which I

*could* get over if more bad stuff didn't keep piling on top of it! People tell

me: go take yoga, get another job, this, that....but when I am this low, I can

barely function let alone do all that stuff. I want to go back to school for

public health, but I have to get things in order here in my house and that is

proving very difficult (with my ADD and depression)

That part in the movie~ yeah, you can both see the woman's point and then wonder

how she could turn the guy away. Maybe the guy depended on her too much. I can

say it IS hard to turn someone in for suicidal behavior. My sister had one

night, cut herself and was bleeding badly; cuts all up and down her arm. When I

talked to her she was sleepy sounding (probably was drinking too). Instead of

calling an ambulance, I called my mom to see if my nephew (living with mom)

could get his girlfriend (he does not have a license! and is in his 20's) to

drive down to my sister's. I finally convinced them to do this and they called

an ambulance. Why didn't I just do it? Then I called the hospital and you know

what...they would not keep her in the psych ward. I told them she was a danger

to herself. My sister just wanted to go home. Seems people with this suicidal

behavior do not want to be changed.

So this guy in the movie probably would have done himself in anyway, I'm

guessing.

Oh well...rambling also!

Back to the gulag....I mean, painting my upstairs apartment!

~patricia

Re: The Bridge

Hi , I am so sorry about your boyfriend being a philandering jerk.

No matter what issues you have or what distance there is between you that's just

NOT ok. In the past I've had boyfriends use the fact that I had triggers and

my reactions were sometimes based on that to get me to invalidate myself while

they got away with doing things that actually were wrong. That may not be the

dynamic here and if not just disregard all that I last wrote

Depression...hello darkness my old friend. I tend to have chronic depression

and if I don't actively do things that lift me out of it I tend to sink back

down. Still I'm holding my own right now which is enough. Sorry to hear you

are going through a rough time with grieving for your sister and now this with

your boyfriend. I hope you can call a counselor soon that can really help.

Oh and I had a rather rageful reaction myself to that woman turning the

suicidal guy away. She even said *the very phrase* people used on me when I was

in the same situation - " call me if you need anything " Um, I'm here right now

in front of you needing you to give a damn and you're fobbing me off and telling

me to call you? Stuff like that nearly drove me from ideation to action. Yet

it has helped for me to find some forgiveness for that because as I've learned

with my nada that sometimes one person can need way more than another is able to

give and it isn't a sin if another person can't give it. The person who needs

isn't necessarily wrong and neither is the person who can't meet the need...let

me tell you it took a long time after my worst crisis to come around to that

pov, but it's the only way I could make peace.

Anyway that got rambly, I hope you feel better soon and don't have to think

about Russian gulags too much.

> > >

> > > I just watched " The Bridge " the documentary on suicides at the

Golden Gate bridge. (it's on Hulu) It's a deeply moving film - I'm working

through many emotions in response to it, but there is one bit I just had to

share here.

> > >

> > > There's one jumper that's profiled named Gene. My ears perked up

right away when they said he grew up just him and his mother, so close, and

neither had any significant relationship with anyone else. He stayed bonded to

her till she died. In the picture of the two of them you can see the crazy in

her eyes and the shy weariness in his. But I thought nahhhh I'm just projecting

here. But then it's revealed when he turned to his mother about his suicidal

thoughts that she told him *he had no right to do it after all she'd invested in

him and couldn't do that as long as she lived* can you believe? saying you are

here to serve me but feel free to off yourself after I'm dead! And sadly

that's what he did not long after after failing at attempts to find love and

work. The older female friend who reported what his mother said also said she

believed that his mother needed him as a child to help her continue to live and

that he figured out early on that was his role.

> > >

> > > Does any of this sound familiar? My heart broke over it and then I

got angry for him, for me, for everyone born to be a crutch to a parent.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @ SEND

HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

> >

> > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

> >

> > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author

SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.