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Re: Re: intimadation

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La Nell

I think my daughter knows she can no longer intimidate me. I think that is

why she has moved on to bigger and better things like not letting me see the

boys. I guess you could look at this as a form of intimidation also, but I'm

not sure. I mean she doesn't SEE my reaction to my not being able to see them.

She can only imagine. I wonder if that is GOOD ENOUGH for her to get a sick

thrill from. I wonder if imaging that she has hurt me is payoff enough for

her.

Jean

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La Nell

But WHY does she want you hooked and powerless? What does thaat do for her?

And does she also have a fluid personality, where she becomes and acts just

like the people she's with?

Jean

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You are probably right, she is wallowing in self pride that she has taken

away what means most to you, without thinking about the emotional and

psychological damage she is doing to the boys. But then again, I'm wondering

if she

thinks that doing this to you might make you do something crazy. I'm sure she

is counting on it. OR, she could be going absolutely bonkers wondering why

you HAVEN'T!! You could get a good chuckle knowing that!

Hugs,

Debbie

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Debbie

Regarding 's reason for taking the boys away from me, perhaps she just

doesn't give a dam- qbout anything to do with me. Perhaps she has put me in

that Black hole and has put me completely out of her mind. What do you think?

Jean

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Deb

I cannot move from my office. A former client called me last week to list

their house as they are moving out os state and if I didn't take the listing , I

stood a chance of losing it to another agency. So, if I leave I will be

leaving all my listings and that would be biting MY nose off to spite my face.

Let HER move. She doesn't do anythig, anyway with the business. I guess

dirtbag will support her or maybe she'll sell drugs. She had always mentioned

that

dealers make a lot of money. God knows, I wouldn't put anything past her.

I will feel better about me if I can just go about my business like she

doesn't exist. Then I will know I am truely healed of this obsession.

I am taking one day at a time. This group with all you wonderful people is

so theraputic. With my being able to throw ideas out there and questions and

having such great support from everyone has made this much easier to deal with.

Jean

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Debbie

Remember when AOL advised me that someone was using my password to get on to

AOL and some of my posts from this group were disappearing? If she remembered

the Web address for this group, she has probably gotten quite an eye opener

and she knows everything I am thinking. Don't know whether that would be good

or bad for either of us.

Jean

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I wouldn't worry, if she has access to a computer, she could go online at

anytime under a friends name and read all this. Who cares? Does she care? I

doubt it very much.

I doubt she even remembers there is this forum, let alone absorb any of it.

I think if she did, you would be the first to know, with her ranting about

how you are talking about her to total strangers! I've gotten ridden for

that before, talking to mom's of friends' of hers, just to give them an idea of

what was making her tick. She couldn't believe I was talking to other moms

about her. I felt bad for all the nice boys.... and I mean there are a lot of

them, treating her like a queen then getting dumped, usually for some stupid

reason or no reason at all.

Debbie

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Great analysis, I think you hit the head on the nail.

And like so many of us say, when she sees that it is

not " affecting " you she will resurface. Then its more

up to you to decide your next step. You can do it!!!

--- funnygirl1154@... wrote:

>

> I really don't think she has put you out of her

> mind. Her keeping the

> boys from you is your punishment, to her, for

> letting dirtbag get arrested.

> You " took away " what she loves, so she will do the

> same to you. It's all

> about her........she is not thinking what it is

> doing to the boys. Just the

> self gratification she is getting from all of this,

> the control thing. She is

> miserable without him, so you will be miserable

> without them. Just my

> opinion. Have you dropped any hints about moving

> your office? to anyone that may

> associate with her? Maybe she will get wind of

> this and see you are " moving

> on " without letting her know. I'm sure she thinks

> that your are sitting

> around wallowing in pity about the boys, and that

> maybe sooner or later she will

> hear from you. Let her hang........... seeing that

> you are doing things

> without any mention to her will really steam her

> engines!

> Hugs,

> Debbie

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________

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I do continue to feel some guilt about my parenting

although I think I did the best I could. I don't know

how your children were when they were little, my

daughter cried all the time when she was a baby. When

she was little she climbed all over me and even a

little older continually asked me if I loved her. I

know I showed her love but she was questioning it way

back then. When she got became middle school aged it

was no longer do you love me, it was why don't you

love me. It was constant, I always chalked it up to

jealousy for her brother being born. It was excessive

questioning of my love. and it was never enough. Did

any of you experience this. I look back now and see

the pattern that developed.

She was a good student, never caused trouble but

showed an enormous amount of anxiety and insecurity.

I was continually going to the school nurses to pick

her up because she was " sick " . She used to run and

hide in the bathroom because her teacher wouldnt tell

her how to spell a word and she would have to use

" inventive spelling " ( a whole language method).

So I do believe that she was born with this

predispostion that was hard to manage. Being

uneducated with emotional development, I tried my best

to deal with it. I'm paying for it now.

Did anyone else have similar experiences?

--- openjoyful wrote:

> Debbie,

>

> I agree with , you seem very insightful about

> how bp's think.

> And I also agree - I think you posted earlier - that

> although there

> might be an element of parenting, they were born

> with this brain

> disorder. I think it's basically biological. After

> all, you do see

> it running in families.

>

> One important thing would be that we don't feel

> guilty about our

> parenting! Whether it was too compliant with them or

> too harsh, we

> all did our best (I don't think there are any

> sadists on this

> board), so we should never stress or blame

> ourselves. What else are

> parents to do when their kid is acting this crazy?

> I'm willing to

> bet that between all the members here, millions of

> dollars were

> spent to analyze, medically treat, school, protect

> and house our

> kids. That is love, and that is caring. We do our

> best, and let them

> go. Hopefully enough good things will stick with

> them to see them

> through.

>

> Carolyn

>

>

>

> > >

> > > I really don't think she has put you out of

> her

> > > mind. Her keeping the

> > > boys from you is your punishment, to her, for

> > > letting dirtbag get arrested.

> > > You " took away " what she loves, so she will do

> the

> > > same to you. It's all

> > > about her........she is not thinking what it is

> > > doing to the boys. Just the

> > > self gratification she is getting from all of

> this,

> > > the control thing. She is

> > > miserable without him, so you will be miserable

> > > without them. Just my

> > > opinion. Have you dropped any hints about

> moving

> > > your office? to anyone that may

> > > associate with her? Maybe she will get wind

> of

> > > this and see you are " moving

> > > on " without letting her know. I'm sure she

> thinks

> > > that your are sitting

> > > around wallowing in pity about the boys, and

> that

> > > maybe sooner or later she will

> > > hear from you. Let her hang........... seeing

> that

> > > you are doing things

> > > without any mention to her will really steam her

> > > engines!

> > > Hugs,

> > > Debbie

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > >

> > >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

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Dear Jamal,

My daughter was anxious and overly clingy too. She

felt neglected at times when it didn't " make sense "

(like when my husband was in the hospital after a

serious car accident). As a baby, she would hardly

tolerate any babysitter; if I was not there she cried

continuously. At birthday parties she sat on my lap

the whole time. And, like yours, she was always at the

nurse (especially in junior high and high school), or

had to go home sick, or couldn't go to school because

she was sick, and I'm sure she did have stomach aches

but of course psychosomatic. I thought nothing of any

of this til she hit about fourteen or so and I began

to hear about her threatening suicide.

Sophie

--- Jamal Jilao wrote:

> I do continue to feel some guilt about my parenting

> although I think I did the best I could. I don't

> know

> how your children were when they were little, my

> daughter cried all the time when she was a baby.

> When

> she was little she climbed all over me and even a

> little older continually asked me if I loved her. I

> know I showed her love but she was questioning it

> way

> back then. When she got became middle school aged

> it

> was no longer do you love me, it was why don't you

> love me. It was constant, I always chalked it up to

> jealousy for her brother being born. It was

> excessive

> questioning of my love. and it was never enough.

> Did

> any of you experience this. I look back now and see

> the pattern that developed.

>

> She was a good student, never caused trouble but

> showed an enormous amount of anxiety and insecurity.

>

> I was continually going to the school nurses to pick

> her up because she was " sick " . She used to run and

> hide in the bathroom because her teacher wouldnt

> tell

> her how to spell a word and she would have to use

> " inventive spelling " ( a whole language method).

>

> So I do believe that she was born with this

> predispostion that was hard to manage. Being

> uneducated with emotional development, I tried my

> best

> to deal with it. I'm paying for it now.

>

> Did anyone else have similar experiences?

> --- openjoyful wrote:

> > Debbie,

> >

> > I agree with , you seem very insightful

> about

> > how bp's think.

> > And I also agree - I think you posted earlier -

> that

> > although there

> > might be an element of parenting, they were born

> > with this brain

> > disorder. I think it's basically biological. After

> > all, you do see

> > it running in families.

> >

> > One important thing would be that we don't feel

> > guilty about our

> > parenting! Whether it was too compliant with them

> or

> > too harsh, we

> > all did our best (I don't think there are any

> > sadists on this

> > board), so we should never stress or blame

> > ourselves. What else are

> > parents to do when their kid is acting this crazy?

> > I'm willing to

> > bet that between all the members here, millions of

> > dollars were

> > spent to analyze, medically treat, school, protect

> > and house our

> > kids. That is love, and that is caring. We do our

> > best, and let them

> > go. Hopefully enough good things will stick with

> > them to see them

> > through.

> >

> > Carolyn

> >

> >

> >

> > > >

> > > > I really don't think she has put you out

> of

> > her

> > > > mind. Her keeping the

> > > > boys from you is your punishment, to her, for

> > > > letting dirtbag get arrested.

> > > > You " took away " what she loves, so she will

> do

> > the

> > > > same to you. It's all

> > > > about her........she is not thinking what it

> is

> > > > doing to the boys. Just the

> > > > self gratification she is getting from all of

> > this,

> > > > the control thing. She is

> > > > miserable without him, so you will be

> miserable

> > > > without them. Just my

> > > > opinion. Have you dropped any hints about

> > moving

> > > > your office? to anyone that may

> > > > associate with her? Maybe she will get wind

> > of

> > > > this and see you are " moving

> > > > on " without letting her know. I'm sure she

> > thinks

> > > > that your are sitting

> > > > around wallowing in pity about the boys, and

> > that

> > > > maybe sooner or later she will

> > > > hear from you. Let her hang........... seeing

> > that

> > > > you are doing things

> > > > without any mention to her will really steam

> her

> > > > engines!

> > > > Hugs,

> > > > Debbie

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > > removed]

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> __________________________________________________

> > >

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Dear Sophie,

I am amazed to hear so many of you talking about how your daughter was sick all

the time, especially in Middle and HS. My daughter was too...and still is and

she is 24. I know she has lots of allergies and asthma plus she was diagnosed

with chronic Epstein Barr (chronic fatigue syndrome) so I am never sure if it is

for real or not. Seems like a pattern. Maybe they don't feel good??? My

daughter also cried all the time as a baby...sometimes for hours and never slept

through the night until she was around 3 years old. She still doesn't sleep

well. Maybe there's something to this?

lks

Re: Re: intimadation

Dear Jamal,

My daughter was anxious and overly clingy too. She

felt neglected at times when it didn't " make sense "

(like when my husband was in the hospital after a

serious car accident). As a baby, she would hardly

tolerate any babysitter; if I was not there she cried

continuously. At birthday parties she sat on my lap

the whole time. And, like yours, she was always at the

nurse (especially in junior high and high school), or

had to go home sick, or couldn't go to school because

she was sick, and I'm sure she did have stomach aches

but of course psychosomatic. I thought nothing of any

of this til she hit about fourteen or so and I began

to hear about her threatening suicide.

Sophie

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Dear -Lorraine,

I'm sure the physical and mental are connected. Especially stomach problems,

nausea, fatigue can be connected to anxiety and depression. But my daughter

wasn't sick all the time, only when she was upset by something; maybe she

herself did not recognize what was making her feel bad, so it became a physical

thing.

Sleep disturbances are common to depression, though of course you can have sleep

disturbance without depression...

Sophie

smith-lorraine@... wrote:

Dear Sophie,

I am amazed to hear so many of you talking about how your daughter was sick all

the time, especially in Middle and HS. My daughter was too...and still is and

she is 24. I know she has lots of allergies and asthma plus she was diagnosed

with chronic Epstein Barr (chronic fatigue syndrome) so I am never sure if it is

for real or not. Seems like a pattern. Maybe they don't feel good??? My

daughter also cried all the time as a baby...sometimes for hours and never slept

through the night until she was around 3 years old. She still doesn't sleep

well. Maybe there's something to this?

lks

Re: Re: intimadation

Dear Jamal,

My daughter was anxious and overly clingy too. She

felt neglected at times when it didn't " make sense "

(like when my husband was in the hospital after a

serious car accident). As a baby, she would hardly

tolerate any babysitter; if I was not there she cried

continuously. At birthday parties she sat on my lap

the whole time. And, like yours, she was always at the

nurse (especially in junior high and high school), or

had to go home sick, or couldn't go to school because

she was sick, and I'm sure she did have stomach aches

but of course psychosomatic. I thought nothing of any

of this til she hit about fourteen or so and I began

to hear about her threatening suicide.

Sophie

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My daughter has terrible sleep patterns, it affects

her whole life and has for a long time. I think her

" illness " were anxiety and psychosomatic. We have had

long talks about this and has improved. Although she

now fixates on her teeth!!! I feel that it is easier

for her to focus on her ailments and teeth (their

imperfections that only she sees, I think they are

beautiful!) instead of the issues on hand (like

working) She has alot of anxiety.

--- smith-lorraine@... wrote:

> Dear Sophie,

>

> I am amazed to hear so many of you talking about how

> your daughter was sick all the time, especially in

> Middle and HS. My daughter was too...and still is

> and she is 24. I know she has lots of allergies and

> asthma plus she was diagnosed with chronic Epstein

> Barr (chronic fatigue syndrome) so I am never sure

> if it is for real or not. Seems like a pattern.

> Maybe they don't feel good??? My daughter also

> cried all the time as a baby...sometimes for hours

> and never slept through the night until she was

> around 3 years old. She still doesn't sleep well.

> Maybe there's something to this?

> lks

> Re: Re: intimadation

>

>

> Dear Jamal,

>

> My daughter was anxious and overly clingy too. She

> felt neglected at times when it didn't " make

> sense "

> (like when my husband was in the hospital after a

> serious car accident). As a baby, she would

> hardly

> tolerate any babysitter; if I was not there she

> cried

> continuously. At birthday parties she sat on my

> lap

> the whole time. And, like yours, she was always at

> the

> nurse (especially in junior high and high school),

> or

> had to go home sick, or couldn't go to school

> because

> she was sick, and I'm sure she did have stomach

> aches

> but of course psychosomatic. I thought nothing of

> any

> of this til she hit about fourteen or so and I

> began

> to hear about her threatening suicide.

>

> Sophie

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

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Yes, 's stomach aches etc were when she was upset

or didn't want to face something, unfortunately she

was often upset about something- we chalked it off to

being overly sensitive. The sleep has been since she

was little, I gave up trying to put her to bed, the

rule was she had to stay in her room. It took hours

for her to fall asleep and it's still that way. It's

ADHD. My concern is that she has soo many labels,

ADHD (not actually diagnosed until she was 15 although

I knew it and worked closely with her teachers before

that), Bi-Polar, and Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome

(she was raped when she was 15). The question is what

is what and do we add Bp to it or is her behavior an

impact of the above labels. It's all so confusing.

--- Sophie Balcoff wrote:

> Dear -Lorraine,

>

> I'm sure the physical and mental are connected.

> Especially stomach problems, nausea, fatigue can be

> connected to anxiety and depression. But my daughter

> wasn't sick all the time, only when she was upset by

> something; maybe she herself did not recognize what

> was making her feel bad, so it became a physical

> thing.

>

> Sleep disturbances are common to depression, though

> of course you can have sleep disturbance without

> depression...

>

> Sophie

>

> smith-lorraine@... wrote:

> Dear Sophie,

>

> I am amazed to hear so many of you talking about how

> your daughter was sick all the time, especially in

> Middle and HS. My daughter was too...and still is

> and she is 24. I know she has lots of allergies and

> asthma plus she was diagnosed with chronic Epstein

> Barr (chronic fatigue syndrome) so I am never sure

> if it is for real or not. Seems like a pattern.

> Maybe they don't feel good??? My daughter also

> cried all the time as a baby...sometimes for hours

> and never slept through the night until she was

> around 3 years old. She still doesn't sleep well.

> Maybe there's something to this?

> lks

> Re: Re: intimadation

>

>

> Dear Jamal,

>

> My daughter was anxious and overly clingy too. She

> felt neglected at times when it didn't " make

> sense "

> (like when my husband was in the hospital after a

> serious car accident). As a baby, she would

> hardly

> tolerate any babysitter; if I was not there she

> cried

> continuously. At birthday parties she sat on my

> lap

> the whole time. And, like yours, she was always at

> the

> nurse (especially in junior high and high school),

> or

> had to go home sick, or couldn't go to school

> because

> she was sick, and I'm sure she did have stomach

> aches

> but of course psychosomatic. I thought nothing of

> any

> of this til she hit about fourteen or so and I

> began

> to hear about her threatening suicide.

>

> Sophie

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

> People joining this list must read the guidelines

> and agree to them before posting. Send questions or

> concerns to WelcomeToOz-owner . " Stop

> Walking on Eggshells " , a primer for non-BPs, and

> " Hope for Parents: Helping Your Borderline Son or

> Daughter Without Sacrificing Your Family Or

> Yourself " can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL

> (). For table of contents, go to

> http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

>

>

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So you think it is the anxiety that keeps them awake?

lks

Re: Re: intimadation

>

>

> Dear Jamal,

>

> My daughter was anxious and overly clingy too. She

> felt neglected at times when it didn't " make

> sense "

> (like when my husband was in the hospital after a

> serious car accident). As a baby, she would

> hardly

> tolerate any babysitter; if I was not there she

> cried

> continuously. At birthday parties she sat on my

> lap

> the whole time. And, like yours, she was always at

> the

> nurse (especially in junior high and high school),

> or

> had to go home sick, or couldn't go to school

> because

> she was sick, and I'm sure she did have stomach

> aches

> but of course psychosomatic. I thought nothing of

> any

> of this til she hit about fourteen or so and I

> began

> to hear about her threatening suicide.

>

> Sophie

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

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I agree about the labels and confusion. (I guess things are only black and white

if your BPD). My daughter too was raped at 15! It's as though all of these

things come together...not just one symptom or illness. She is diagnosed ADD

but not the hyper part. It's as though her circadian rhythm is off. I think

her illnesses are part physical and part mental which is very difficult to tell

apart. I don't think one can fake a fever and presence of a virus in their

blood. Everytime she tries to do something full time, like work or school, she

ends up sick in bed with a fever and swollen lymph nodes, etc. But then she

also has an eating disorder so I think she doesn't eat properly....the cycle

just keeps going around. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

lks

Re: Re: intimadation

>

>

> Dear Jamal,

>

> My daughter was anxious and overly clingy too. She

> felt neglected at times when it didn't " make

> sense "

> (like when my husband was in the hospital after a

> serious car accident). As a baby, she would

> hardly

> tolerate any babysitter; if I was not there she

> cried

> continuously. At birthday parties she sat on my

> lap

> the whole time. And, like yours, she was always at

> the

> nurse (especially in junior high and high school),

> or

> had to go home sick, or couldn't go to school

> because

> she was sick, and I'm sure she did have stomach

> aches

> but of course psychosomatic. I thought nothing of

> any

> of this til she hit about fourteen or so and I

> began

> to hear about her threatening suicide.

>

> Sophie

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

> People joining this list must read the guidelines

> and agree to them before posting. Send questions or

> concerns to WelcomeToOz-owner . " Stop

> Walking on Eggshells " , a primer for non-BPs, and

> " Hope for Parents: Helping Your Borderline Son or

> Daughter Without Sacrificing Your Family Or

> Yourself " can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL

> (). For table of contents, go to

> http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

>

>

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I know for my daughter it has alot to do with it but

even moreso I think it is her ADHD. My dad is the

same way, he struggles getting to sleep. But then

again he is also a worrier (anxiety) and that mixes

with it. That's what I mean, there is so much, I

don't have an answer. He psychiatrist did not respond

to the concern we both had over her sleep patterns

(she just started going to him), of course now she is

18 I'm out of the picture medically which is

frustrating because she doesn't take responsibility.

--- smith-lorraine@... wrote:

> So you think it is the anxiety that keeps them

> awake?

> lks

> Re: Re:

> intimadation

> >

> >

> > Dear Jamal,

> >

> > My daughter was anxious and overly clingy too.

> She

> > felt neglected at times when it didn't " make

> > sense "

> > (like when my husband was in the hospital

> after a

> > serious car accident). As a baby, she would

> > hardly

> > tolerate any babysitter; if I was not there

> she

> > cried

> > continuously. At birthday parties she sat on

> my

> > lap

> > the whole time. And, like yours, she was

> always at

> > the

> > nurse (especially in junior high and high

> school),

> > or

> > had to go home sick, or couldn't go to school

> > because

> > she was sick, and I'm sure she did have

> stomach

> > aches

> > but of course psychosomatic. I thought nothing

> of

> > any

> > of this til she hit about fourteen or so and I

> > began

> > to hear about her threatening suicide.

> >

> > Sophie

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

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Guest guest

I can't believe the similarities our daughters have!!

you might want to read about Post Traumatic Stress

Syndrome, after rape that has a huge impact and one of

the characteristics is rage. Interesting.... Did your

daughter receive counseling after her experience? My

daughter is unwilling to go to that place, still three

years later despite her previous therapists and my

attempts. I think it has alot to do with her raging,

anxiety etc. She still has flashbacks. Did you ever

read the book " Lucky " It is excellent, it's the

author's experience with being raped. It helped my

understand the process.

--- smith-lorraine@... wrote:

> So you think it is the anxiety that keeps them

> awake?

> lks

> Re: Re:

> intimadation

> >

> >

> > Dear Jamal,

> >

> > My daughter was anxious and overly clingy too.

> She

> > felt neglected at times when it didn't " make

> > sense "

> > (like when my husband was in the hospital

> after a

> > serious car accident). As a baby, she would

> > hardly

> > tolerate any babysitter; if I was not there

> she

> > cried

> > continuously. At birthday parties she sat on

> my

> > lap

> > the whole time. And, like yours, she was

> always at

> > the

> > nurse (especially in junior high and high

> school),

> > or

> > had to go home sick, or couldn't go to school

> > because

> > she was sick, and I'm sure she did have

> stomach

> > aches

> > but of course psychosomatic. I thought nothing

> of

> > any

> > of this til she hit about fourteen or so and I

> > began

> > to hear about her threatening suicide.

> >

> > Sophie

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> __________________________________________________

>

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Guest guest

How old is she now? Does she have to take a lot of

meds?

Sophie

--- Jamal Jilao wrote:

> Yes, 's stomach aches etc were when she was

> upset

> or didn't want to face something, unfortunately she

> was often upset about something- we chalked it off

> to

> being overly sensitive. The sleep has been since

> she

> was little, I gave up trying to put her to bed, the

> rule was she had to stay in her room. It took hours

> for her to fall asleep and it's still that way.

> It's

> ADHD. My concern is that she has soo many labels,

> ADHD (not actually diagnosed until she was 15

> although

> I knew it and worked closely with her teachers

> before

> that), Bi-Polar, and Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome

> (she was raped when she was 15). The question is

> what

> is what and do we add Bp to it or is her behavior an

> impact of the above labels. It's all so confusing.

>

> --- Sophie Balcoff wrote:

> > Dear -Lorraine,

> >

> > I'm sure the physical and mental are connected.

> > Especially stomach problems, nausea, fatigue can

> be

> > connected to anxiety and depression. But my

> daughter

> > wasn't sick all the time, only when she was upset

> by

> > something; maybe she herself did not recognize

> what

> > was making her feel bad, so it became a physical

> > thing.

> >

> > Sleep disturbances are common to depression,

> though

> > of course you can have sleep disturbance without

> > depression...

> >

> > Sophie

> >

> > smith-lorraine@... wrote:

> > Dear Sophie,

> >

> > I am amazed to hear so many of you talking about

> how

> > your daughter was sick all the time, especially in

> > Middle and HS. My daughter was too...and still is

> > and she is 24. I know she has lots of allergies

> and

> > asthma plus she was diagnosed with chronic Epstein

> > Barr (chronic fatigue syndrome) so I am never sure

> > if it is for real or not. Seems like a pattern.

> > Maybe they don't feel good??? My daughter also

> > cried all the time as a baby...sometimes for hours

> > and never slept through the night until she was

> > around 3 years old. She still doesn't sleep well.

>

> > Maybe there's something to this?

> > lks

> > Re: Re: intimadation

> >

> >

> > Dear Jamal,

> >

> > My daughter was anxious and overly clingy too.

> She

> > felt neglected at times when it didn't " make

> > sense "

> > (like when my husband was in the hospital after

> a

> > serious car accident). As a baby, she would

> > hardly

> > tolerate any babysitter; if I was not there she

> > cried

> > continuously. At birthday parties she sat on my

> > lap

> > the whole time. And, like yours, she was always

> at

> > the

> > nurse (especially in junior high and high

> school),

> > or

> > had to go home sick, or couldn't go to school

> > because

> > she was sick, and I'm sure she did have stomach

> > aches

> > but of course psychosomatic. I thought nothing

> of

> > any

> > of this til she hit about fourteen or so and I

> > began

> > to hear about her threatening suicide.

> >

> > Sophie

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > People joining this list must read the guidelines

> > and agree to them before posting. Send questions

> or

> > concerns to WelcomeToOz-owner .

> " Stop

> > Walking on Eggshells " , a primer for non-BPs, and

> > " Hope for Parents: Helping Your Borderline Son or

> > Daughter Without Sacrificing Your Family Or

> > Yourself " can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL

> > (). For table of contents, go to

> > http://www.BPDCentral.com

> >

> >

> >

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Guest guest

It's hard to know if they can't get to sleep because

they slept all day, or if they slept aall day because

they couldn't get to sleep at night. Mydaughter also

has terrible sleep habits and has for years. Now that

she is not doing much, nothing stops her from getting

up at two. Needless to say, it makes living a " real

life " rather difficult.

Sophie

--- openjoyful wrote:

> -

>

> My daughter also has terrible insomnia. She

> literally cannot sleep

> at all without medication. For a while she was on

> ambien, but that

> is addicting, so her doctor has her taking her other

> meds at night.

> Two of those meds have a side effect of making her

> sleepy. She says

> that if she doesn't take them, she is up all night.

>

> I agree with you that they have many psychosomatic

> illnesses. She

> has had terrible migraines in the past, usually

> related to not

> wanting to go to school (caused by anxiety). She

> never had the

> headaches on the weekends. But I'm sure they felt

> very real to her.

>

> One interesting thing I read on a website somewhere

> is that when

> children cannot cope with something, they fall

> asleep. She would

> sleep long hours after getting migraines. Actually,

> she was sleeping

> many hours each day (sometimes 12-14 hours) until

> fairly recently. I

> thought it was due to her meds but I think it also

> might be anxiety,

> depression or not wanting to be awake to cope with

> life.

>

> Carolyn

>

>

> > > Dear Sophie,

> > >

> > > I am amazed to hear so many of you talking about

> how

> > > your daughter was sick all the time, especially

> in

> > > Middle and HS. My daughter was too...and still

> is

> > > and she is 24. I know she has lots of allergies

> and

> > > asthma plus she was diagnosed with chronic

> Epstein

> > > Barr (chronic fatigue syndrome) so I am never

> sure

> > > if it is for real or not. Seems like a pattern.

>

> > > Maybe they don't feel good??? My daughter also

> > > cried all the time as a baby...sometimes for

> hours

> > > and never slept through the night until she was

> > > around 3 years old. She still doesn't sleep

> well.

> > > Maybe there's something to this?

> > > lks

> > > Re: Re:

> intimadation

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Jamal,

> > >

> > > My daughter was anxious and overly clingy too.

> She

> > > felt neglected at times when it didn't " make

> > > sense "

> > > (like when my husband was in the hospital

> after a

> > > serious car accident). As a baby, she would

> > > hardly

> > > tolerate any babysitter; if I was not there

> she

> > > cried

> > > continuously. At birthday parties she sat on

> my

> > > lap

> > > the whole time. And, like yours, she was

> always at

> > > the

> > > nurse (especially in junior high and high

> school),

> > > or

> > > had to go home sick, or couldn't go to school

> > > because

> > > she was sick, and I'm sure she did have

> stomach

> > > aches

> > > but of course psychosomatic. I thought nothing

> of

> > > any

> > > of this til she hit about fourteen or so and I

> > > began

> > > to hear about her threatening suicide.

> > >

> > > Sophie

> > >

> > >

> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > > removed]

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

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Guest guest

My daughter was also sick all the time and still is. Asthma, stomache aches,

etc. I read where Bi-Polar's have alot of stomache problems which holds true

since my daughter is also Bi Polar.

smith-lorraine@... wrote:

Dear Sophie,

I am amazed to hear so many of you talking about how your daughter was sick all

the time, especially in Middle and HS. My daughter was too...and still is and

she is 24. I know she has lots of allergies and asthma plus she was diagnosed

with chronic Epstein Barr (chronic fatigue syndrome) so I am never sure if it is

for real or not. Seems like a pattern. Maybe they don't feel good??? My

daughter also cried all the time as a baby...sometimes for hours and never slept

through the night until she was around 3 years old. She still doesn't sleep

well. Maybe there's something to this?

lks

Re: Re: intimadation

Dear Jamal,

My daughter was anxious and overly clingy too. She

felt neglected at times when it didn't " make sense "

(like when my husband was in the hospital after a

serious car accident). As a baby, she would hardly

tolerate any babysitter; if I was not there she cried

continuously. At birthday parties she sat on my lap

the whole time. And, like yours, she was always at the

nurse (especially in junior high and high school), or

had to go home sick, or couldn't go to school because

she was sick, and I'm sure she did have stomach aches

but of course psychosomatic. I thought nothing of any

of this til she hit about fourteen or so and I began

to hear about her threatening suicide.

Sophie

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Guest guest

She takes lithium and paxil, that is she is supposed to be taking it regularly,

it's just another thing we fight about (power)

Sophie Balcoff wrote:How old is she now? Does she have

to take a lot of

meds?

Sophie

--- Jamal Jilao wrote:

> Yes, 's stomach aches etc were when she was

> upset

> or didn't want to face something, unfortunately she

> was often upset about something- we chalked it off

> to

> being overly sensitive. The sleep has been since

> she

> was little, I gave up trying to put her to bed, the

> rule was she had to stay in her room. It took hours

> for her to fall asleep and it's still that way.

> It's

> ADHD. My concern is that she has soo many labels,

> ADHD (not actually diagnosed until she was 15

> although

> I knew it and worked closely with her teachers

> before

> that), Bi-Polar, and Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome

> (she was raped when she was 15). The question is

> what

> is what and do we add Bp to it or is her behavior an

> impact of the above labels. It's all so confusing.

>

> --- Sophie Balcoff wrote:

> > Dear -Lorraine,

> >

> > I'm sure the physical and mental are connected.

> > Especially stomach problems, nausea, fatigue can

> be

> > connected to anxiety and depression. But my

> daughter

> > wasn't sick all the time, only when she was upset

> by

> > something; maybe she herself did not recognize

> what

> > was making her feel bad, so it became a physical

> > thing.

> >

> > Sleep disturbances are common to depression,

> though

> > of course you can have sleep disturbance without

> > depression...

> >

> > Sophie

> >

> > smith-lorraine@... wrote:

> > Dear Sophie,

> >

> > I am amazed to hear so many of you talking about

> how

> > your daughter was sick all the time, especially in

> > Middle and HS. My daughter was too...and still is

> > and she is 24. I know she has lots of allergies

> and

> > asthma plus she was diagnosed with chronic Epstein

> > Barr (chronic fatigue syndrome) so I am never sure

> > if it is for real or not. Seems like a pattern.

> > Maybe they don't feel good??? My daughter also

> > cried all the time as a baby...sometimes for hours

> > and never slept through the night until she was

> > around 3 years old. She still doesn't sleep well.

>

> > Maybe there's something to this?

> > lks

> > Re: Re: intimadation

> >

> >

> > Dear Jamal,

> >

> > My daughter was anxious and overly clingy too.

> She

> > felt neglected at times when it didn't " make

> > sense "

> > (like when my husband was in the hospital after

> a

> > serious car accident). As a baby, she would

> > hardly

> > tolerate any babysitter; if I was not there she

> > cried

> > continuously. At birthday parties she sat on my

> > lap

> > the whole time. And, like yours, she was always

> at

> > the

> > nurse (especially in junior high and high

> school),

> > or

> > had to go home sick, or couldn't go to school

> > because

> > she was sick, and I'm sure she did have stomach

> > aches

> > but of course psychosomatic. I thought nothing

> of

> > any

> > of this til she hit about fourteen or so and I

> > began

> > to hear about her threatening suicide.

> >

> > Sophie

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> > removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > People joining this list must read the guidelines

> > and agree to them before posting. Send questions

> or

> > concerns to WelcomeToOz-owner .

> " Stop

> > Walking on Eggshells " , a primer for non-BPs, and

> > " Hope for Parents: Helping Your Borderline Son or

> > Daughter Without Sacrificing Your Family Or

> > Yourself " can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL

> > (). For table of contents, go to

> > http://www.BPDCentral.com

> >

> >

> >

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