1 yr anniversary of being disowned, sis's b-day, and fada's rantings

[Guest guest]

....and my littlest sister's 8th birthday is on the 25th. On one hand, I really

really want to send her a birthday card at the very least, because I'm sad that

I'm unable to be in her life. On the other hand, my BP fada and enabling nada

said in an email after I sent Christmas presents--We will allow them to have

your presents this time out of courtesy, but it is inappropriate to keep in

contact with your siblings when you're disrespecting us. Do not send anymore

gifts or cards, or we will return it to you, unopened. (I forget the exact

words, but that's basically it).

On one hand, obeying seems too much like I'm still being perfectly obedient to

my fada, but the idea is for me to do the exact opposite of what they tell me.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't. If I do send cards, they will damn me. If I

don't send cards, they will say, why didn't you send any cards? You don't have

to listen to your fada! and danmn me then.

I don't know what to do. My other thought is to buy the cards for my siblings,

write to them and sign and date it, and keep them all, and give to them when I'm

finally able to talk with them again. " Why didn't you send cards, Holly? " and

I'd be able to say, I couldn't, so I kept them all so I could give it to you

when you were allowed to talk to me again.

Okay, ramblings here, haha.

But yeah, it has been a year since I was disowned, when my fada flipped about

SOMETHING I'm not sure what. He said, give back your car, your phone, I " m

cancelling your health insurance, get your own of everything, etc. Then a week

later he sent nada to my workplace to give back the car keys and the phone as an

" olive branch. " I told nada that I already got everythign lined up, and have my

own car and phone now, I don't need it. And she started crying. Later they

framed it up as me REFUSING the HUGE olive branch that my fada was being SO

GENEROUS in giving it to me, as if I was desperately hurting for fada's help. My

brother said, after I sent him a birthday card in August last year, that I was

being selfish for not accepting the HUGE OLIVE BRANCH even though I already had

a car and phone.

Okay, so I did what fada told me to, and then my family is blasting me for

actually doing that? I told my nada, " Why didn't fada just talk to me if he

thought there was a problem? Sit down, talk it out BEFORE cutting me off?.... "

and nada told me, " That's just the way fada is. You know how he always does

stuff before talking. You just have to deal with it. "

Anywho, I do feel a lot better NC with my parents (though it was awkward trying

to tell my relatives, as I visited them over spring break in CO, that my family

isn't invited to my July wedding, and why).

A funny thought came to me yesterday, too. If I wasn't already disowned, I might

have been yesterday after the health care bill was passed in the US. I

half-wished I could have planted a little microphone transmitter so I could hear

fada's rantings and ravings about the evils of the health care--honestly, it was

scary listening to him rant about anything political when I was growing up. He

was really scary to be around when he was angrily celebrating when the US troops

captured Saddam years ago. And they acted really weird when I abstained from

voting in the presidential election couple years ago. I honestly couldn't bring

myself to cast a vote for either candidate. In nada's views, not voting was a

vote for Obama, and she couldn't see how I could be a good Catholic since I was

essentially voting for him. I was up late at my fiance's house, watching the

returns that Tues night, and my nada txt msg'd me where I was and when I was

coming home (I was a frickin' college student!) and she said, why are you

interested? You didn't even vote!

Speaking of being a good Catholic, why were fada/nada constantly appealing to my

faith? Honor thy father and mother, etc. And my fada was going on about how only

radical feminists walked down the aisle side by side with her future husbands,

instead of being given away by the father. When I was LC for a few months,

trying to sort thigns out after being disowned, I told them that i've talked

with a counselor and a priest to sort things out. fada sent a long email going

on and on about " You need to see a good CATHOLIC counselor, not some radical

feminist at the university, because they don't understand family, while a good

CATHOLIC counselor would " (keep in mind, these are all paraphrases.) All because

the counselor told me that it was an unhealthy family relationship and that I

was doing all the right things to make boundaries against emotional abuse.

and then fada started going on about the radical feminist priests, and how I

need to go see a REAL priest--just because the priest said the same thing.

THe idea of me being a radical feminist was so outrageous that I decided to

co-opt the phrase as a badge of honor, haha. I joke about being a radical

feminist a lot, now, because all my friends know that's not the case. (I just

champion equality, not superiority, of women. Hence my decision to walk down the

aisle together with my fiance, instead of being given away like chattel.)

Yikes, this was a long post, but it was nice to get it all " out there " . Sharing

it makes me feel more sure of my decision of being NC.

Love you guys!!

[Guest guest]

Holly - Do what you feel in YOUR heart is the best thing to do. If you truly

want to send cards/presents to your siblings, then do it. You are not going to

be able to predict what happens to gifts/cards, but at least YOU will have

chosen to do what YOU want to do. Your siblings might inadvertently get the

mail and open the cards first. Your fada might get the mail and send them back

to you unopened (whereas you can save them with the " return to sender " marked on

the envelope for evidence). You are NC and you don't have to take any of it on!

Be true to yourself.

I think that growing up with a nada/fada trains us to look at the world in terms

of everyone else's needs and reactions. I know that I'm so hard-wired to make

decisions and choices based on how others are going to react/perceive me, that

it is a real chore to figure out exactly what *I* really want and make decisions

based on *my* needs/wants (without all the external influences). Its like

re-training myself to breathe differently!

-

>

> ...and my littlest sister's 8th birthday is on the 25th. On one hand, I really

really want to send her a birthday card at the very least, because I'm sad that

I'm unable to be in her life. On the other hand, my BP fada and enabling nada

said in an email after I sent Christmas presents--We will allow them to have

your presents this time out of courtesy, but it is inappropriate to keep in

contact with your siblings when you're disrespecting us. Do not send anymore

gifts or cards, or we will return it to you, unopened. (I forget the exact

words, but that's basically it).

>

> On one hand, obeying seems too much like I'm still being perfectly obedient to

my fada, but the idea is for me to do the exact opposite of what they tell me.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't. If I do send cards, they will damn me. If I

don't send cards, they will say, why didn't you send any cards? You don't have

to listen to your fada! and danmn me then.

>

> I don't know what to do. My other thought is to buy the cards for my siblings,

write to them and sign and date it, and keep them all, and give to them when I'm

finally able to talk with them again. " Why didn't you send cards, Holly? " and

I'd be able to say, I couldn't, so I kept them all so I could give it to you

when you were allowed to talk to me again.

>

> Okay, ramblings here, haha.

>

> But yeah, it has been a year since I was disowned, when my fada flipped about

SOMETHING I'm not sure what. He said, give back your car, your phone, I " m

cancelling your health insurance, get your own of everything, etc. Then a week

later he sent nada to my workplace to give back the car keys and the phone as an

" olive branch. " I told nada that I already got everythign lined up, and have my

own car and phone now, I don't need it. And she started crying. Later they

framed it up as me REFUSING the HUGE olive branch that my fada was being SO

GENEROUS in giving it to me, as if I was desperately hurting for fada's help. My

brother said, after I sent him a birthday card in August last year, that I was

being selfish for not accepting the HUGE OLIVE BRANCH even though I already had

a car and phone.

>

> Okay, so I did what fada told me to, and then my family is blasting me for

actually doing that? I told my nada, " Why didn't fada just talk to me if he

thought there was a problem? Sit down, talk it out BEFORE cutting me off?.... "

and nada told me, " That's just the way fada is. You know how he always does

stuff before talking. You just have to deal with it. "

>

> Anywho, I do feel a lot better NC with my parents (though it was awkward

trying to tell my relatives, as I visited them over spring break in CO, that my

family isn't invited to my July wedding, and why).

>

> A funny thought came to me yesterday, too. If I wasn't already disowned, I

might have been yesterday after the health care bill was passed in the US. I

half-wished I could have planted a little microphone transmitter so I could hear

fada's rantings and ravings about the evils of the health care--honestly, it was

scary listening to him rant about anything political when I was growing up. He

was really scary to be around when he was angrily celebrating when the US troops

captured Saddam years ago. And they acted really weird when I abstained from

voting in the presidential election couple years ago. I honestly couldn't bring

myself to cast a vote for either candidate. In nada's views, not voting was a

vote for Obama, and she couldn't see how I could be a good Catholic since I was

essentially voting for him. I was up late at my fiance's house, watching the

returns that Tues night, and my nada txt msg'd me where I was and when I was

coming home (I was a frickin' college student!) and she said, why are you

interested? You didn't even vote!

>

> Speaking of being a good Catholic, why were fada/nada constantly appealing to

my faith? Honor thy father and mother, etc. And my fada was going on about how

only radical feminists walked down the aisle side by side with her future

husbands, instead of being given away by the father. When I was LC for a few

months, trying to sort thigns out after being disowned, I told them that i've

talked with a counselor and a priest to sort things out. fada sent a long email

going on and on about " You need to see a good CATHOLIC counselor, not some

radical feminist at the university, because they don't understand family, while

a good CATHOLIC counselor would " (keep in mind, these are all paraphrases.) All

because the counselor told me that it was an unhealthy family relationship and

that I was doing all the right things to make boundaries against emotional

abuse.

>

> and then fada started going on about the radical feminist priests, and how I

need to go see a REAL priest--just because the priest said the same thing.

>

> THe idea of me being a radical feminist was so outrageous that I decided to

co-opt the phrase as a badge of honor, haha. I joke about being a radical

feminist a lot, now, because all my friends know that's not the case. (I just

champion equality, not superiority, of women. Hence my decision to walk down the

aisle together with my fiance, instead of being given away like chattel.)

>

>

> Yikes, this was a long post, but it was nice to get it all " out there " .

Sharing it makes me feel more sure of my decision of being NC.

>

> Love you guys!!

>

[Guest guest]

Holly,

I am so sorry about your situation. I think starting a " gift box " for your

siblings is a great idea. For each of their birthdays and any holidays you

celebrate, you could buy a small present (if you can afford one), write a card,

and wrap the package in the day's newspaper. It will be a good way to create

positive memories associated with your siblings, and when you finally get a

chance to interact with them on your own terms as they grow older, you will be

able to share your love and care.

As far as being disowned... I have walked that road - been thrown out,

disinherited. My mother flew into a rage and told me that if I didn't respect

her the way she deserved then I didn't deserve anything from the family. I

signed over all the real estate that was in my name, my trust fund, gave back my

car, etc. This was almost 15 years ago. I walked away from a multimillion dollar

inheritance, but in many ways it was actually a very liberating experience. The

unfortunate part was that at the time I didn't realize my mother had a mental

illness with a name and I internalized a lot of the horrible things she said to

me and about me. Unfortunately, I am an only child, so no matter how horribly

she treated me, I never threw her out of my life. I sooooo wish I had siblings

and she would leave me alone. Now, she is in war mode again. During Christmas

vacation she gave me another ultimatum - if I don't divorce my husband and

change my name (first and last, and my last name is still my maiden name, i.e.

my dad's last name), by this summer, she will disappear from my life and I will

" never be able to find her " and I will " look for her everywhere and cry and

regret the horrible way in which " I " treated " her " but it will be too late " (her

words in quotes). Pleeeease.... It's the classic, " I hate you, don't leave me,

I'll leave you, please love me " insanity going on. She still manages to really

screw up my inner world.

I hope you will not allow your parents to define your life.

The one thing I regret is not celebrating my marriage to my husband. We never

had a ceremony or even a small party, because my mother was in 24-hour attack

mode against my relationship with my husband and she discussed my personal life

in the most vile manner with anyone (and I mean anyone, even random people at a

restaurant or coffee shop). I am really glad that you have a wedding planned and

I hope you will enjoy yourself to the fullest and have the happy celebration

that you and your husband deserve.

We can't control the BPD parent's insanity, but we can control how we react to

it and how much we let it affect our lives.

Good luck with the wedding plans... I am sure it will be bautiful!

Arianna

>

> ...and my littlest sister's 8th birthday is on the 25th. On one hand, I really

really want to send her a birthday card at the very least, because I'm sad that

I'm unable to be in her life. On the other hand, my BP fada and enabling nada

said in an email after I sent Christmas presents--We will allow them to have

your presents this time out of courtesy, but it is inappropriate to keep in

contact with your siblings when you're disrespecting us. Do not send anymore

gifts or cards, or we will return it to you, unopened. (I forget the exact

words, but that's basically it).

>

> On one hand, obeying seems too much like I'm still being perfectly obedient to

my fada, but the idea is for me to do the exact opposite of what they tell me.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't. If I do send cards, they will damn me. If I

don't send cards, they will say, why didn't you send any cards? You don't have

to listen to your fada! and danmn me then.

>

> I don't know what to do. My other thought is to buy the cards for my siblings,

write to them and sign and date it, and keep them all, and give to them when I'm

finally able to talk with them again. " Why didn't you send cards, Holly? " and

I'd be able to say, I couldn't, so I kept them all so I could give it to you

when you were allowed to talk to me again.

>

> Okay, ramblings here, haha.

>

> But yeah, it has been a year since I was disowned, when my fada flipped about

SOMETHING I'm not sure what. He said, give back your car, your phone, I " m

cancelling your health insurance, get your own of everything, etc. Then a week

later he sent nada to my workplace to give back the car keys and the phone as an

" olive branch. " I told nada that I already got everythign lined up, and have my

own car and phone now, I don't need it. And she started crying. Later they

framed it up as me REFUSING the HUGE olive branch that my fada was being SO

GENEROUS in giving it to me, as if I was desperately hurting for fada's help. My

brother said, after I sent him a birthday card in August last year, that I was

being selfish for not accepting the HUGE OLIVE BRANCH even though I already had

a car and phone.

>

> Okay, so I did what fada told me to, and then my family is blasting me for

actually doing that? I told my nada, " Why didn't fada just talk to me if he

thought there was a problem? Sit down, talk it out BEFORE cutting me off?.... "

and nada told me, " That's just the way fada is. You know how he always does

stuff before talking. You just have to deal with it. "

>

> Anywho, I do feel a lot better NC with my parents (though it was awkward

trying to tell my relatives, as I visited them over spring break in CO, that my

family isn't invited to my July wedding, and why).

>

> A funny thought came to me yesterday, too. If I wasn't already disowned, I

might have been yesterday after the health care bill was passed in the US. I

half-wished I could have planted a little microphone transmitter so I could hear

fada's rantings and ravings about the evils of the health care--honestly, it was

scary listening to him rant about anything political when I was growing up. He

was really scary to be around when he was angrily celebrating when the US troops

captured Saddam years ago. And they acted really weird when I abstained from

voting in the presidential election couple years ago. I honestly couldn't bring

myself to cast a vote for either candidate. In nada's views, not voting was a

vote for Obama, and she couldn't see how I could be a good Catholic since I was

essentially voting for him. I was up late at my fiance's house, watching the

returns that Tues night, and my nada txt msg'd me where I was and when I was

coming home (I was a frickin' college student!) and she said, why are you

interested? You didn't even vote!

>

> Speaking of being a good Catholic, why were fada/nada constantly appealing to

my faith? Honor thy father and mother, etc. And my fada was going on about how

only radical feminists walked down the aisle side by side with her future

husbands, instead of being given away by the father. When I was LC for a few

months, trying to sort thigns out after being disowned, I told them that i've

talked with a counselor and a priest to sort things out. fada sent a long email

going on and on about " You need to see a good CATHOLIC counselor, not some

radical feminist at the university, because they don't understand family, while

a good CATHOLIC counselor would " (keep in mind, these are all paraphrases.) All

because the counselor told me that it was an unhealthy family relationship and

that I was doing all the right things to make boundaries against emotional

abuse.

>

> and then fada started going on about the radical feminist priests, and how I

need to go see a REAL priest--just because the priest said the same thing.

>

> THe idea of me being a radical feminist was so outrageous that I decided to

co-opt the phrase as a badge of honor, haha. I joke about being a radical

feminist a lot, now, because all my friends know that's not the case. (I just

champion equality, not superiority, of women. Hence my decision to walk down the

aisle together with my fiance, instead of being given away like chattel.)

>

>

> Yikes, this was a long post, but it was nice to get it all " out there " .

Sharing it makes me feel more sure of my decision of being NC.

>

> Love you guys!!

>

[Guest guest]

Holly...

What your parents are throwing at you isn't truly Catholic theology. As a

deliberately practicing Catholic myself, it KILLS me when supposed " Catholics "

pervert the church like that. It's one thing if a person truly disagrees with

what the Church actually teaches...I can respect that. But when a supposed

Catholic perverts it like that and uses it as a weapon...that, I can't stand.

Anyway.

I don't know if it would help/matter to you...two of my friends got married to

each other last year. They are both very very devout and conservative

Catholics. VERY traditional. At their Catholic wedding (which included a lot

of Latin and no bare shoulders allowed in the church!), they walked down the

aisle together. I didn't question much about it...I figured that no matter

what, it was their wedding so their call on everything, you know? But, I do

remember the bride saying something about how it is actually MORE traditional

(and " Catholic " ) for the bride and bridegroom to walk down the aisle together.

If you want, I can ask them for the details on that and pass them along to

you...in case you feel like you want or need it for your parents. If not,

that's okay too...just let me know.

Ninera

>

> Subject: 1 yr anniversary of being disowned, sis's b-day,

and fada's rantings

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Tuesday, March 23, 2010, 2:40 PM

> ...and my littlest sister's 8th

> birthday is on the 25th. On one hand, I really really want

> to send her a birthday card at the very least, because I'm

> sad that I'm unable to be in her life. On the other hand, my

> BP fada and enabling nada said in an email after I sent

> Christmas presents--We will allow them to have your presents

> this time out of courtesy, but it is inappropriate to keep

> in contact with your siblings when you're disrespecting us.

> Do not send anymore gifts or cards, or we will return it to

> you, unopened. (I forget the exact words, but that's

> basically it).

>

> On one hand, obeying seems too much like I'm still being

> perfectly obedient to my fada, but the idea is for me to do

> the exact opposite of what they tell me. Damned if I do,

> damned if I don't. If I do send cards, they will damn me. If

> I don't send cards, they will say, why didn't you send any

> cards? You don't have to listen to your fada! and danmn me

> then.

>

> I don't know what to do. My other thought is to buy the

> cards for my siblings, write to them and sign and date it,

> and keep them all, and give to them when I'm finally able to

> talk with them again. " Why didn't you send cards, Holly? "

> and I'd be able to say, I couldn't, so I kept them all so I

> could give it to you when you were allowed to talk to me

> again.

>

> Okay, ramblings here, haha.

>

> But yeah, it has been a year since I was disowned, when my

> fada flipped about SOMETHING I'm not sure what. He said,

> give back your car, your phone, I " m cancelling your health

> insurance, get your own of everything, etc. Then a week

> later he sent nada to my workplace to give back the car keys

> and the phone as an " olive branch. " I told nada that I

> already got everythign lined up, and have my own car and

> phone now, I don't need it. And she started crying. Later

> they framed it up as me REFUSING the HUGE olive branch that

> my fada was being SO GENEROUS in giving it to me, as if I

> was desperately hurting for fada's help. My brother said,

> after I sent him a birthday card in August last year, that I

> was being selfish for not accepting the HUGE OLIVE BRANCH

> even though I already had a car and phone.

>

> Okay, so I did what fada told me to, and then my family is

> blasting me for actually doing that? I told my nada, " Why

> didn't fada just talk to me if he thought there was a

> problem? Sit down, talk it out BEFORE cutting me off?.... "

> and nada told me, " That's just the way fada is. You know how

> he always does stuff before talking. You just have to deal

> with it. "

>

> Anywho, I do feel a lot better NC with my parents (though

> it was awkward trying to tell my relatives, as I visited

> them over spring break in CO, that my family isn't invited

> to my July wedding, and why).

>

> A funny thought came to me yesterday, too. If I wasn't

> already disowned, I might have been yesterday after the

> health care bill was passed in the US. I half-wished I could

> have planted a little microphone transmitter so I could hear

> fada's rantings and ravings about the evils of the health

> care--honestly, it was scary listening to him rant about

> anything political when I was growing up. He was really

> scary to be around when he was angrily celebrating when the

> US troops captured Saddam years ago. And they acted really

> weird when I abstained from voting in the presidential

> election couple years ago. I honestly couldn't bring myself

> to cast a vote for either candidate. In nada's views, not

> voting was a vote for Obama, and she couldn't see how I

> could be a good Catholic since I was essentially voting for

> him. I was up late at my fiance's house, watching the

> returns that Tues night, and my nada txt msg'd me where I

> was and when I was coming home (I was a frickin' college

> student!) and she said, why are you interested? You didn't

> even vote!

>

> Speaking of being a good Catholic, why were fada/nada

> constantly appealing to my faith? Honor thy father and

> mother, etc. And my fada was going on about how only radical

> feminists walked down the aisle side by side with her future

> husbands, instead of being given away by the father. When I

> was LC for a few months, trying to sort thigns out after

> being disowned, I told them that i've talked with a

> counselor and a priest to sort things out. fada sent a long

> email going on and on about " You need to see a good CATHOLIC

> counselor, not some radical feminist at the university,

> because they don't understand family, while a good CATHOLIC

> counselor would " (keep in mind, these are all paraphrases.)

> All because the counselor told me that it was an unhealthy

> family relationship and that I was doing all the right

> things to make boundaries against emotional abuse.

>

> and then fada started going on about the radical feminist

> priests, and how I need to go see a REAL priest--just

> because the priest said the same thing.

>

> THe idea of me being a radical feminist was so outrageous

> that I decided to co-opt the phrase as a badge of honor,

> haha. I joke about being a radical feminist a lot, now,

> because all my friends know that's not the case. (I just

> champion equality, not superiority, of women. Hence my

> decision to walk down the aisle together with my fiance,

> instead of being given away like chattel.)

>

>

> Yikes, this was a long post, but it was nice to get it all

> " out there " . Sharing it makes me feel more sure of my

> decision of being NC.

>

> Love you guys!!

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

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>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community

> and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Ninera,

It took me a long time to realize that my parents were twisting the faith around

to use it as a weapon, but when I did, now I recognize it everywhere. I hate it.

(especially the one reading where " wives, obey the husband " because I knew fada

would be more than willing to use that against us...)

That's what I've heard, that it's actually the traditional way to walk down the

aisle together before popular culture made it a big deal to give the bride away.

Thanks, though I've explained it to my parents a year ago, found out fada was

apparently felt extremely disrespected, I promised to change it back, nada said

" it's not about this, it's about the fact you don't want your family in the

wedding.. "

Wait, what? I freakin was having my older sister be my maid of honor, among

other roles in the wedding! After that, I decided, no, it's not worth it to

keep changing it around to make them happy, and switched it back.

Thanks so much, though!

>

> >

> > Subject: 1 yr anniversary of being disowned, sis's

b-day, and fada's rantings

> > To: WTOAdultChildren1

> > Date: Tuesday, March 23, 2010, 2:40 PM

> > ...and my littlest sister's 8th

> > birthday is on the 25th. On one hand, I really really want

> > to send her a birthday card at the very least, because I'm

> > sad that I'm unable to be in her life. On the other hand, my

> > BP fada and enabling nada said in an email after I sent

> > Christmas presents--We will allow them to have your presents

> > this time out of courtesy, but it is inappropriate to keep

> > in contact with your siblings when you're disrespecting us.

> > Do not send anymore gifts or cards, or we will return it to

> > you, unopened. (I forget the exact words, but that's

> > basically it).

> >

> > On one hand, obeying seems too much like I'm still being

> > perfectly obedient to my fada, but the idea is for me to do

> > the exact opposite of what they tell me. Damned if I do,

> > damned if I don't. If I do send cards, they will damn me. If

> > I don't send cards, they will say, why didn't you send any

> > cards? You don't have to listen to your fada! and danmn me

> > then.

> >

> > I don't know what to do. My other thought is to buy the

> > cards for my siblings, write to them and sign and date it,

> > and keep them all, and give to them when I'm finally able to

> > talk with them again. " Why didn't you send cards, Holly? "

> > and I'd be able to say, I couldn't, so I kept them all so I

> > could give it to you when you were allowed to talk to me

> > again.

> >

> > Okay, ramblings here, haha.

> >

> > But yeah, it has been a year since I was disowned, when my

> > fada flipped about SOMETHING I'm not sure what. He said,

> > give back your car, your phone, I " m cancelling your health

> > insurance, get your own of everything, etc. Then a week

> > later he sent nada to my workplace to give back the car keys

> > and the phone as an " olive branch. " I told nada that I

> > already got everythign lined up, and have my own car and

> > phone now, I don't need it. And she started crying. Later

> > they framed it up as me REFUSING the HUGE olive branch that

> > my fada was being SO GENEROUS in giving it to me, as if I

> > was desperately hurting for fada's help. My brother said,

> > after I sent him a birthday card in August last year, that I

> > was being selfish for not accepting the HUGE OLIVE BRANCH

> > even though I already had a car and phone.

> >

> > Okay, so I did what fada told me to, and then my family is

> > blasting me for actually doing that? I told my nada, " Why

> > didn't fada just talk to me if he thought there was a

> > problem? Sit down, talk it out BEFORE cutting me off?.... "

> > and nada told me, " That's just the way fada is. You know how

> > he always does stuff before talking. You just have to deal

> > with it. "

> >

> > Anywho, I do feel a lot better NC with my parents (though

> > it was awkward trying to tell my relatives, as I visited

> > them over spring break in CO, that my family isn't invited

> > to my July wedding, and why).

> >

> > A funny thought came to me yesterday, too. If I wasn't

> > already disowned, I might have been yesterday after the

> > health care bill was passed in the US. I half-wished I could

> > have planted a little microphone transmitter so I could hear

> > fada's rantings and ravings about the evils of the health

> > care--honestly, it was scary listening to him rant about

> > anything political when I was growing up. He was really

> > scary to be around when he was angrily celebrating when the

> > US troops captured Saddam years ago. And they acted really

> > weird when I abstained from voting in the presidential

> > election couple years ago. I honestly couldn't bring myself

> > to cast a vote for either candidate. In nada's views, not

> > voting was a vote for Obama, and she couldn't see how I

> > could be a good Catholic since I was essentially voting for

> > him. I was up late at my fiance's house, watching the

> > returns that Tues night, and my nada txt msg'd me where I

> > was and when I was coming home (I was a frickin' college

> > student!) and she said, why are you interested? You didn't

> > even vote!

> >

> > Speaking of being a good Catholic, why were fada/nada

> > constantly appealing to my faith? Honor thy father and

> > mother, etc. And my fada was going on about how only radical

> > feminists walked down the aisle side by side with her future

> > husbands, instead of being given away by the father. When I

> > was LC for a few months, trying to sort thigns out after

> > being disowned, I told them that i've talked with a

> > counselor and a priest to sort things out. fada sent a long

> > email going on and on about " You need to see a good CATHOLIC

> > counselor, not some radical feminist at the university,

> > because they don't understand family, while a good CATHOLIC

> > counselor would " (keep in mind, these are all paraphrases.)

> > All because the counselor told me that it was an unhealthy

> > family relationship and that I was doing all the right

> > things to make boundaries against emotional abuse.

> >

> > and then fada started going on about the radical feminist

> > priests, and how I need to go see a REAL priest--just

> > because the priest said the same thing.

> >

> > THe idea of me being a radical feminist was so outrageous

> > that I decided to co-opt the phrase as a badge of honor,

> > haha. I joke about being a radical feminist a lot, now,

> > because all my friends know that's not the case. (I just

> > champion equality, not superiority, of women. Hence my

> > decision to walk down the aisle together with my fiance,

> > instead of being given away like chattel.)

> >

> >

> > Yikes, this was a long post, but it was nice to get it all

> > " out there " . Sharing it makes me feel more sure of my

> > decision of being NC.

> >

> > Love you guys!!

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @...

> > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE

> > GROUP.

> >

> > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call

> > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to

> > “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and

> > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can

> > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

> >

> > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community

> > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

this is great gina.. i agree with you completely and think your ideas are

excellent.  yes, it is a new world out there when we consult ourselves as to

what we want to do in any given situation instead of trying to figure out what

others want of us. i find myself still starting out almost every exchange with

any person who is important to me (whose opinion of me is important to me) with

some sort of agreement with them.. before i can get the courage to begin to

express what i really want to say (sort of).. then shiver with dread that they

will reject me if i actually express it!i guess it remains a gradual process

with me, learning as i go along that others don't have the vested interest in

controlling me that nada and fada did.. nor do they explode in any way if i

disagree with them.  actually i remember in my early days of this, feeling

wonderfully liberated .. a good therapist had asked me 'ann, what do you want?'

and i found myself searching around

eagerly in my mind asking myself what i wanted about this and that and

everything.. it was a brand new experience for me!  yes, we all get to learn

how to live our lives and raise ourselves and find out who we really are.. as

there is life out there after fog.. best wishes to all who are on this healing

journey.  ann

Subject: Re: 1 yr anniversary of being disowned, sis's

b-day, and fada's rantings

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Tuesday, March 23, 2010, 11:38 AM

 

Holly - Do what you feel in YOUR heart is the best thing to do. If you

truly want to send cards/presents to your siblings, then do it. You are not

going to be able to predict what happens to gifts/cards, but at least YOU will

have chosen to do what YOU want to do. Your siblings might inadvertently get

the mail and open the cards first. Your fada might get the mail and send them

back to you unopened (whereas you can save them with the " return to sender "

marked on the envelope for evidence). You are NC and you don't have to take any

of it on! Be true to yourself.

I think that growing up with a nada/fada trains us to look at the world in terms

of everyone else's needs and reactions. I know that I'm so hard-wired to make

decisions and choices based on how others are going to react/perceive me, that

it is a real chore to figure out exactly what *I* really want and make decisions

based on *my* needs/wants (without all the external influences). Its like

re-training myself to breathe differently!

-

>

> ...and my littlest sister's 8th birthday is on the 25th. On one hand, I really

really want to send her a birthday card at the very least, because I'm sad that

I'm unable to be in her life. On the other hand, my BP fada and enabling nada

said in an email after I sent Christmas presents--We will allow them to have

your presents this time out of courtesy, but it is inappropriate to keep in

contact with your siblings when you're disrespecting us. Do not send anymore

gifts or cards, or we will return it to you, unopened. (I forget the exact

words, but that's basically it).

>

> On one hand, obeying seems too much like I'm still being perfectly obedient to

my fada, but the idea is for me to do the exact opposite of what they tell me.

Damned if I do, damned if I don't. If I do send cards, they will damn me. If I

don't send cards, they will say, why didn't you send any cards? You don't have

to listen to your fada! and danmn me then.

>

> I don't know what to do. My other thought is to buy the cards for my siblings,

write to them and sign and date it, and keep them all, and give to them when I'm

finally able to talk with them again. " Why didn't you send cards, Holly? " and

I'd be able to say, I couldn't, so I kept them all so I could give it to you

when you were allowed to talk to me again.

>

> Okay, ramblings here, haha.

>

> But yeah, it has been a year since I was disowned, when my fada flipped about

SOMETHING I'm not sure what. He said, give back your car, your phone, I " m

cancelling your health insurance, get your own of everything, etc. Then a week

later he sent nada to my workplace to give back the car keys and the phone as an

" olive branch. " I told nada that I already got everythign lined up, and have my

own car and phone now, I don't need it. And she started crying. Later they

framed it up as me REFUSING the HUGE olive branch that my fada was being SO

GENEROUS in giving it to me, as if I was desperately hurting for fada's help. My

brother said, after I sent him a birthday card in August last year, that I was

being selfish for not accepting the HUGE OLIVE BRANCH even though I already had

a car and phone.

>

> Okay, so I did what fada told me to, and then my family is blasting me for

actually doing that? I told my nada, " Why didn't fada just talk to me if he

thought there was a problem? Sit down, talk it out BEFORE cutting me off?.... "

and nada told me, " That's just the way fada is. You know how he always does

stuff before talking. You just have to deal with it. "

>

> Anywho, I do feel a lot better NC with my parents (though it was awkward

trying to tell my relatives, as I visited them over spring break in CO, that my

family isn't invited to my July wedding, and why).

>

> A funny thought came to me yesterday, too. If I wasn't already disowned, I

might have been yesterday after the health care bill was passed in the US. I

half-wished I could have planted a little microphone transmitter so I could hear

fada's rantings and ravings about the evils of the health care--honestly, it was

scary listening to him rant about anything political when I was growing up. He

was really scary to be around when he was angrily celebrating when the US troops

captured Saddam years ago. And they acted really weird when I abstained from

voting in the presidential election couple years ago. I honestly couldn't bring

myself to cast a vote for either candidate. In nada's views, not voting was a

vote for Obama, and she couldn't see how I could be a good Catholic since I was

essentially voting for him. I was up late at my fiance's house, watching the

returns that Tues night, and my nada txt msg'd me where I was and when I was

coming home (I was a

frickin' college student!) and she said, why are you interested? You didn't

even vote!

>

> Speaking of being a good Catholic, why were fada/nada constantly appealing to

my faith? Honor thy father and mother, etc. And my fada was going on about how

only radical feminists walked down the aisle side by side with her future

husbands, instead of being given away by the father. When I was LC for a few

months, trying to sort thigns out after being disowned, I told them that i've

talked with a counselor and a priest to sort things out. fada sent a long email

going on and on about " You need to see a good CATHOLIC counselor, not some

radical feminist at the university, because they don't understand family, while

a good CATHOLIC counselor would " (keep in mind, these are all paraphrases. ) All

because the counselor told me that it was an unhealthy family relationship and

that I was doing all the right things to make boundaries against emotional

abuse.

>

> and then fada started going on about the radical feminist priests, and how I

need to go see a REAL priest--just because the priest said the same thing.

>

> THe idea of me being a radical feminist was so outrageous that I decided to

co-opt the phrase as a badge of honor, haha. I joke about being a radical

feminist a lot, now, because all my friends know that's not the case. (I just

champion equality, not superiority, of women. Hence my decision to walk down the

aisle together with my fiance, instead of being given away like chattel.)

>

>

> Yikes, this was a long post, but it was nice to get it all " out there " .

Sharing it makes me feel more sure of my decision of being NC.

>

> Love you guys!!

>

[Guest guest]

You're right, and Ann!

I still struggle with that little flea of worrying about what others think.

And I do exactly the same thing, Ann, I start out agreeing somewhat with the

other person before starting to get my own voice. It's not good or healthy,

and leads to awkward situations (like when I was debating the health care

bill with a friend of mine who said, " but you said you liked arguing! " not

really, I hate conflicts...) but little steps at a time!

I love this support group I realize more things this way when others

describe this or that flea they have...

>

>

> this is great gina.. i agree with you completely and think your ideas are

> excellent. yes, it is a new world out there when we consult ourselves as to

> what we want to do in any given situation instead of trying to figure out

> what others want of us. i find myself still starting out almost every

> exchange with any person who is important to me (whose opinion of me is

> important to me) with some sort of agreement with them.. before i can get

> the courage to begin to express what i really want to say (sort of).. then

> shiver with dread that they will reject me if i actually express it!i guess

> it remains a gradual process with me, learning as i go along that others

> don't have the vested interest in controlling me that nada and fada did..

> nor do they explode in any way if i disagree with them. actually i remember

> in my early days of this, feeling wonderfully liberated .. a good therapist

> had asked me 'ann, what do you want?' and i found myself searching around

> eagerly in my mind asking myself what i wanted about this and that and

> everything.. it was a brand new experience for me! yes, we all get to learn

> how to live our lives and raise ourselves and find out who we really are..

> as there is life out there after fog.. best wishes to all who are on this

> healing journey. ann

>

>

> From: <downthebunnyhole64@... <downthebunnyhole64%40yahoo.com>>

> Subject: Re: 1 yr anniversary of being disowned, sis's

> b-day, and fada's rantings

> To: WTOAdultChildren1 <WTOAdultChildren1%40yahoogroups.com>

> Date: Tuesday, March 23, 2010, 11:38 AM

>

>

>

>

> Holly - Do what you feel in YOUR heart is the best thing to do. If you

> truly want to send cards/presents to your siblings, then do it. You are not

> going to be able to predict what happens to gifts/cards, but at least YOU

> will have chosen to do what YOU want to do. Your siblings might

> inadvertently get the mail and open the cards first. Your fada might get the

> mail and send them back to you unopened (whereas you can save them with the

> " return to sender " marked on the envelope for evidence). You are NC and you

> don't have to take any of it on! Be true to yourself.

>

> I think that growing up with a nada/fada trains us to look at the world in

> terms of everyone else's needs and reactions. I know that I'm so hard-wired

> to make decisions and choices based on how others are going to

> react/perceive me, that it is a real chore to figure out exactly what *I*

> really want and make decisions based on *my* needs/wants (without all the

> external influences). Its like re-training myself to breathe differently!

>

> -

>

>

>

> >

>

> > ...and my littlest sister's 8th birthday is on the 25th. On one hand, I

> really really want to send her a birthday card at the very least, because

> I'm sad that I'm unable to be in her life. On the other hand, my BP fada and

> enabling nada said in an email after I sent Christmas presents--We will

> allow them to have your presents this time out of courtesy, but it is

> inappropriate to keep in contact with your siblings when you're

> disrespecting us. Do not send anymore gifts or cards, or we will return it

> to you, unopened. (I forget the exact words, but that's basically it).

>

> >

>

> > On one hand, obeying seems too much like I'm still being perfectly

> obedient to my fada, but the idea is for me to do the exact opposite of what

> they tell me. Damned if I do, damned if I don't. If I do send cards, they

> will damn me. If I don't send cards, they will say, why didn't you send any

> cards? You don't have to listen to your fada! and danmn me then.

>

> >

>

> > I don't know what to do. My other thought is to buy the cards for my

> siblings, write to them and sign and date it, and keep them all, and give to

> them when I'm finally able to talk with them again. " Why didn't you send

> cards, Holly? " and I'd be able to say, I couldn't, so I kept them all so I

> could give it to you when you were allowed to talk to me again.

>

> >

>

> > Okay, ramblings here, haha.

>

> >

>

> > But yeah, it has been a year since I was disowned, when my fada flipped

> about SOMETHING I'm not sure what. He said, give back your car, your phone,

> I " m cancelling your health insurance, get your own of everything, etc. Then

> a week later he sent nada to my workplace to give back the car keys and the

> phone as an " olive branch. " I told nada that I already got everythign lined

> up, and have my own car and phone now, I don't need it. And she started

> crying. Later they framed it up as me REFUSING the HUGE olive branch that my

> fada was being SO GENEROUS in giving it to me, as if I was desperately

> hurting for fada's help. My brother said, after I sent him a birthday card

> in August last year, that I was being selfish for not accepting the HUGE

> OLIVE BRANCH even though I already had a car and phone.

>

> >

>

> > Okay, so I did what fada told me to, and then my family is blasting me

> for actually doing that? I told my nada, " Why didn't fada just talk to me if

> he thought there was a problem? Sit down, talk it out BEFORE cutting me

> off?.... " and nada told me, " That's just the way fada is. You know how he

> always does stuff before talking. You just have to deal with it. "

>

> >

>

> > Anywho, I do feel a lot better NC with my parents (though it was awkward

> trying to tell my relatives, as I visited them over spring break in CO, that

> my family isn't invited to my July wedding, and why).

>

> >

>

> > A funny thought came to me yesterday, too. If I wasn't already disowned,

> I might have been yesterday after the health care bill was passed in the US.

> I half-wished I could have planted a little microphone transmitter so I

> could hear fada's rantings and ravings about the evils of the health

> care--honestly, it was scary listening to him rant about anything political

> when I was growing up. He was really scary to be around when he was angrily

> celebrating when the US troops captured Saddam years ago. And they acted

> really weird when I abstained from voting in the presidential election

> couple years ago. I honestly couldn't bring myself to cast a vote for either

> candidate. In nada's views, not voting was a vote for Obama, and she

> couldn't see how I could be a good Catholic since I was essentially voting

> for him. I was up late at my fiance's house, watching the returns that Tues

> night, and my nada txt msg'd me where I was and when I was coming home (I

> was a

> frickin' college student!) and she said, why are you interested? You didn't

> even vote!

>

> >

>

> > Speaking of being a good Catholic, why were fada/nada constantly

> appealing to my faith? Honor thy father and mother, etc. And my fada was

> going on about how only radical feminists walked down the aisle side by side

> with her future husbands, instead of being given away by the father. When I

> was LC for a few months, trying to sort thigns out after being disowned, I

> told them that i've talked with a counselor and a priest to sort things out.

> fada sent a long email going on and on about " You need to see a good

> CATHOLIC counselor, not some radical feminist at the university, because

> they don't understand family, while a good CATHOLIC counselor would " (keep

> in mind, these are all paraphrases. ) All because the counselor told me that

> it was an unhealthy family relationship and that I was doing all the right

> things to make boundaries against emotional abuse.

>

> >

>

> > and then fada started going on about the radical feminist priests, and

> how I need to go see a REAL priest--just because the priest said the same

> thing.

>

> >

>

> > THe idea of me being a radical feminist was so outrageous that I decided

> to co-opt the phrase as a badge of honor, haha. I joke about being a radical

> feminist a lot, now, because all my friends know that's not the case. (I

> just champion equality, not superiority, of women. Hence my decision to walk

> down the aisle together with my fiance, instead of being given away like

> chattel.)

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Yikes, this was a long post, but it was nice to get it all " out there " .

> Sharing it makes me feel more sure of my decision of being NC.

>

> >

>

> > Love you guys!!

>

> >

>

>