Questions from beginner

[Guest guest]

Hi a bit of info from me, I have had UC for 3 years and was in a

flare for the first 1-1.5 years. After maybe a year or less of

improving symptoms I was getting worse coming into another flare. I

decided I had to try something so I fasted for 2 days, couldn't do

anymore due to headaches and tiredness (working full time as well)

then ate only meat, eggs and cheese for about 5 days. I believe my

symptoms were improving. This seems to have bit me today though as

last night had a BM but the lack of fibre meant my stools were

v.hard and I think has damaged the lining of the colon a bit so

today is quite inflamed and painful.

For the last few days I have been trying to follow the SCD but am

having problems with illegals which I spot every now and them i.e.

probiotic yoghurts have sugar, the curry sauce has sugar. My rough

plan is to try and refine my diet until it becomes legal.

So some questions... If there are websites with this info please

point me in the right direction.

Why are bifidobacteria illegal? I have some bifidus infantis which I

was keen to try because it withstands stomach acid...

Why is FOS illegal? I though this only fed good bacteria?

Does anyone have any idea how many bacteria may be in the homemade

yoghurt? (say acidopholus)

Does anyone make yoghurt using a previosly made yoghurt as a

starter? I thought this was the normal was to do it but elaine says

no.

I have a kenwood yogurella but all of the temperatures seem very

high only when the slider is all the way to the left (quite a bit

below setting number 1) does the temperature seem to be around 40

degrees - does modern yoghurt use much higher temperatures than

Elaine recommends? Does anyone else use an electronic yoghurt maker -

what are your temps like?

Is there any scientific reasoning behind why veg (which I believe

has ploysaccarides) is allowed and sugar (a disaccaride) is not? I

imagine the long chain (veg) has to be broken down into shorter and

shorter chains until you end up with a mono-saccaride which would

require a lot more 'processing' than a sugar which just needs

breaking in half...

Any curry recipes?

Should I stay off nuts for as long as possible?

I believe tinned tomatoes are banned because there maybe sugar

added? Is this right even in tomato paste which says 100% pure

tomatoes?

[Guest guest]

The first question I have for you is: have you read Elaine Gottschall's

book, Breaking the Vicious Cycle?

That answers all the science questions you have, and delineates the

diet.

The rule of SCD is make your own, make your own, make your own. That

means, for instance, make your own curry sauce, don't try to buy bottled.

I have yet to find a bottled sauce (with the exception of red Tabasco)

that doesn't have sugar or high fructose corn syrup in it, which are both

SCD illegal.

There is a difference between refined sugar (a disaccharide) and a whole

vegetable, which may contain a mix of nutrients as balanced by

nature.

FOS feeds bacteria. Doesn't matter, regardless of the type, which one.

Nasty stuff. Gave me gas and diarrhea for a week.

As for bifidus... let's not go there. Some health care practitioners go

ga-ga about it. I tried it, and was weeks recovering. Bifidus may work

for people without gut issues, but it is not a team player and has a

habit of overgrowing wildly in the unbalanced ecology of our damaged

guts.

For the parameters of the diet, here is my file of basics, obviously

aimed at the SCDer himself or herself, not someone implementing it for a

child.

Page 43 of BTVC gives the details, but the basics are:

==> Any cereal grain is strictly and

absolutely forbidden. (BTVC p49), including, but not limited to, wheat,

corn, oats, rice, rye, millet, buckwheat, triticale, etc. This means none

in any form. Bread, cake, toast, macaroni, etc. etc. is absolutely

forbidden if made with grain.

==> Carbohydrates (starches and sugars) other

than those found in fruits, honey, properly prepared yogurt, and certain

vegetables are also forbidden.

==> Liquid milk is forbidden. Milk must be

properly fermented, as yogurt, or as cheese made with rennet or other

enzymes. Some people find even yogurt which has been fermented for 24

hours difficult to digest, and do better with " dripped " or

" drained " yogurt, also called yogurt cheese. Small amounts of

heavy cream, treated with lactaid drops, and kept in the refrigerator for

24 hours after treatment may be used in coffee or tea.

==> Most beans (legumes) are forbidden. Dried

white (navy) beans, lentils, split peas, and both dried and fresh lima

beans are permitted. (BTVC, p 53-54) These must be prepared according to

the directions in the Gourmet Section of BTVC: specifically, they must be

soaked for at least eight hours, drained (throw away the soak water),

rinsed, and then cooked until tender in fresh water. All legumes other

than the ones mentioned above are illegal. Illegal legumes include, but

are not limited to chick peas, bean sprouts, soybeans, mung beans, faba

beans, garbanzo beans, and pinto beans.

==> Canned, processed vegetables are

forbidden. They often have unlisted sugar or starch. Use fresh, or fresh

frozen. Be sure to peel and seed these at the beginning of the

diet.

==> Most canned fruits are illegal. Read

labels carefully, and only use those packed in their own juice with no

added sweeteners. Fresh or fresh frozen are preferred. In the early

stages of the diet, all fruits should be peeled, seeded, and cooked.

==> All sweeteners except saccharin and

filtered honey are forbidden. Be especially wary of any products labeled

" sugar-free " - even those without illegal aspartame will often

have mannitol and sorbitol, which are sugar alcohols. Products containing

these are allowed to call themselves " sugar free " because

alcohol sugars are indigestible by human beings. But the bad bugs in your

gut will have a marvelous time dining on them, and keep you

sick!

==> Be aware that fruits and raw vegetables

have laxative qualities, so if active diarrhea is your reason for coming

to the SCD, these must be used with caution until normal function

resumes. These same raw fruits and vegetables can also cause other forms

of gastric upset, like gas, queasy stomach, etc. if you eat them too

early in the diet.

==> Everyone is different. Cooked carrots, as

an example, are usually well tolerated by most people, one reason they

are included on the introductory diet. I, on the other hand, didn't

tolerate carrots at all - they simply came through completely undigested.

Yet I could eat both cooked and raw broccoli and cauliflower (both

notorious for giving people trouble) with impunity. Even legal foods can

be a problem if you eat them too soon, or eat too much of them.

==> It has taken you quite a few years to

become ill; it may very well take months, or even years to heal from all

the damage that has been done to your system.

==> In any healing situation, it is often a

case of two steps forward and one step back. Don't give up! You are

giving your body the nutrition it needs, and you have eliminated the

foods which made you sick in the first place.

—

Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

I'm glad Marilyn answered first! I don't know half the answers to your questions, but wanted to throw a few thoughts in.

First, about the yogurt -- you CAN use already prepared yogurt as a starter. The book recommends you use purchased yogurt (most people I've heard from use Dannon plain yogurt), because homemade yogurt apparently doesn't keep as many bacteria alive as long as they need to be alive to be a good starter (I'm probably not describing this correctly, but I hope my point is clear :-)).

Next, about nuts -- I've been on the diet for almost 3 months, and I think I waited way too long to begin nuts. I tried peanut butter about 2 weeks into the diet and had a really bad reaction, so I then avoided nut flour and butter for many weeks afterward. I had awful constipation, including really hard stools (like you describe). Then, when I finally got brave and started almond butter, and the constipation pretty much has disappeared. Everyone is different of course, but if hard stool continues to be a problem for you, you might try almond flour or almond butter fairly early on. (For the record, almond flour didn't hurt me at all by the time I started it, but it didn't help my hard stools and constipation either, whereas the almond butter had immediate effects). Some people use cashew butter or pecan butter as well, I believe, but since almond butter has worked for me, and is easy to obtain over the internet, that's what I've stuck with.

Good luck on the diet!

Ann

UC, SCD since 03/30/2008

Hi a bit of info from me, I have had UC for 3 years and was in aflare for the first 1-1.5 years. After maybe a year or less of

improving symptoms I was getting worse coming into another flare. Idecided I had to try something so I fasted for 2 days, couldn't doanymore due to headaches and tiredness (working full time as well)then ate only meat, eggs and cheese for about 5 days. I believe my

symptoms were improving. This seems to have bit me today though aslast night had a BM but the lack of fibre meant my stools werev.hard and I think has damaged the lining of the colon a bit sotoday is quite inflamed and painful.

For the last few days I have been trying to follow the SCD but amhaving problems with illegals which I spot every now and them i.e.probiotic yoghurts have sugar, the curry sauce has sugar. My roughplan is to try and refine my diet until it becomes legal.

So some questions... If there are websites with this info pleasepoint me in the right direction.Why are bifidobacteria illegal? I have some bifidus infantis which Iwas keen to try because it withstands stomach acid...

Why is FOS illegal? I though this only fed good bacteria?Does anyone have any idea how many bacteria may be in the homemadeyoghurt? (say acidopholus)Does anyone make yoghurt using a previosly made yoghurt as a

starter? I thought this was the normal was to do it but elaine saysno.I have a kenwood yogurella but all of the temperatures seem veryhigh only when the slider is all the way to the left (quite a bitbelow setting number 1) does the temperature seem to be around 40

degrees - does modern yoghurt use much higher temperatures thanElaine recommends? Does anyone else use an electronic yoghurt maker - what are your temps like?Is there any scientific reasoning behind why veg (which I believe

has ploysaccarides) is allowed and sugar (a disaccaride) is not? Iimagine the long chain (veg) has to be broken down into shorter andshorter chains until you end up with a mono-saccaride which wouldrequire a lot more 'processing' than a sugar which just needs

breaking in half...Any curry recipes?Should I stay off nuts for as long as possible?I believe tinned tomatoes are banned because there maybe sugaradded? Is this right even in tomato paste which says 100% pure

tomatoes?------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Wow Marilyn!!!I always wonder how patient you are to repeat over and over again and answer to all of our questions.Thanks to you and people like Sheila there are no chance to curve a wrong direction.Take care and quick healingYanaUC 1 year , SCD 3+ months Re: Questions from beginner

The first question I have for you is: have you read Elaine Gottschall's

book, Breaking the Vicious Cycle?

That answers all the science questions you have, and delineates the

diet.

The rule of SCD is make your own, make your own, make your own. That

means, for instance, make your own curry sauce, don't try to buy bottled.

I have yet to find a bottled sauce (with the exception of red Tabasco)

that doesn't have sugar or high fructose corn syrup in it, which are both

SCD illegal.

There is a difference between refined sugar (a disaccharide) and a whole

vegetable, which may contain a mix of nutrients as balanced by

nature.

FOS feeds bacteria. Doesn't matter, regardless of the type, which one.

Nasty stuff. Gave me gas and diarrhea for a week.

As for bifidus... let's not go there. Some health care practitioners go

ga-ga about it. I tried it, and was weeks recovering. Bifidus may work

for people without gut issues, but it is not a team player and has a

habit of overgrowing wildly in the unbalanced ecology of our damaged

guts.

For the parameters of the diet, here is my file of basics, obviously

aimed at the SCDer himself or herself, not someone implementing it for a

child.

Page 43 of BTVC gives the details, but the basics are:

==> Any cereal grain is strictly and

absolutely forbidden. (BTVC p49), including, but not limited to, wheat,

corn, oats, rice, rye, millet, buckwheat, triticale, etc. This means none

in any form. Bread, cake, toast, macaroni, etc. etc. is absolutely

forbidden if made with grain.

==> Carbohydrates (starches and sugars) other

than those found in fruits, honey, properly prepared yogurt, and certain

vegetables are also forbidden.

==> Liquid milk is forbidden. Milk must be

properly fermented, as yogurt, or as cheese made with rennet or other

enzymes. Some people find even yogurt which has been fermented for 24

hours difficult to digest, and do better with "dripped" or

"drained" yogurt, also called yogurt cheese. Small amounts of

heavy cream, treated with lactaid drops, and kept in the refrigerator for

24 hours after treatment may be used in coffee or tea.

==> Most beans (legumes) are forbidden. Dried

white (navy) beans, lentils, split peas, and both dried and fresh lima

beans are permitted. (BTVC, p 53-54) These must be prepared according to

the directions in the Gourmet Section of BTVC: specifically, they must be

soaked for at least eight hours, drained (throw away the soak water),

rinsed, and then cooked until tender in fresh water. All legumes other

than the ones mentioned above are illegal. Illegal legumes include, but

are not limited to chick peas, bean sprouts, soybeans, mung beans, faba

beans, garbanzo beans, and pinto beans.

==> Canned, processed vegetables are

forbidden. They often have unlisted sugar or starch. Use fresh, or fresh

frozen. Be sure to peel and seed these at the beginning of the

diet.

==> Most canned fruits are illegal. Read

labels carefully, and only use those packed in their own juice with no

added sweeteners. Fresh or fresh frozen are preferred. In the early

stages of the diet, all fruits should be peeled, seeded, and cooked.

==> All sweeteners except saccharin and

filtered honey are forbidden. Be especially wary of any products labeled

"sugar-free" - even those without illegal aspartame will often

have mannitol and sorbitol, which are sugar alcohols. Products containing

these are allowed to call themselves "sugar free" because

alcohol sugars are indigestible by human beings.. But the bad bugs in your

gut will have a marvelous time dining on them, and keep you

sick!

==> Be aware that fruits and raw vegetables

have laxative qualities, so if active diarrhea is your reason for coming

to the SCD, these must be used with caution until normal function

resumes. These same raw fruits and vegetables can also cause other forms

of gastric upset, like gas, queasy stomach, etc. if you eat them too

early in the diet.

==> Everyone is different. Cooked carrots, as

an example, are usually well tolerated by most people, one reason they

are included on the introductory diet. I, on the other hand, didn't

tolerate carrots at all - they simply came through completely undigested.

Yet I could eat both cooked and raw broccoli and cauliflower (both

notorious for giving people trouble) with impunity. Even legal foods can

be a problem if you eat them too soon, or eat too much of them.

==> It has taken you quite a few years to

become ill; it may very well take months, or even years to heal from all

the damage that has been done to your system.

==> In any healing situation, it is often a

case of two steps forward and one step back. Don't give up! You are

giving your body the nutrition it needs, and you have eliminated the

foods which made you sick in the first place.—

Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

Just to add a bit to Marilyn's wonderful and thorough reply...The online list of legals/illegals expands somewhat on the book. For example, the book does not list "black beans" as legal. However, the list at http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/legal/legal_illegal_a-c.htm says black beans (not to be confused with black eye beans) are legal.In the 12th Edition of the book, the detailed diet starts on page 71.Bifidus apparently causes terrible regression in some, and grand healing in others (including some with damaged guts) --much like pretty much every item in the world. This said, it is correct that Elaine declared it illegal. She presents her view, as well as a couple of people's

experiences backing it, in the knowledge base here: http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/knowledge_base/kb/bifidus.htmThe list of legals/illegals (including, in many cases, reasoning) and the knowledge base will give you hours of happy reading! That said, the book is a crucial resource. Lots of us have read it several times in our first few months, and still reference it almost daily!Welcome :)Baden

[Guest guest]

Heh! Maybe you should stick a copy of that in files, Marilyn, so we can just refer new people to that and you don't have to write it again. MaraWow Marilyn!!!I always wonder how patient you are to repeat over and over again and answer to all of our questions.Thanks to you and people like Sheila there are no chance to curve a wrong direction.Take care and quick healingYanaUC 1 year , SCD 3+ months Re: Questions from beginnerThe first question I have for you is: have you read Elaine Gottschall's book, Breaking the Vicious Cycle?That answers all the science questions you have, and delineates the diet.The rule of SCD is make your own, make your own, make your own. That means, for instance, make your own curry sauce, don't try to buy bottled. I have yet to find a bottled sauce (with the exception of red Tabasco) that doesn't have sugar or high fructose corn syrup in it, which are both SCD illegal.There is a difference between refined sugar (a disaccharide) and a whole vegetable, which may contain a mix of nutrients as balanced by nature.FOS feeds bacteria. Doesn't matter, regardless of the type, which one. Nasty stuff. Gave me gas and diarrhea for a week.As for bifidus... let's not go there. Some health care practitioners go ga-ga about it. I tried it, and was weeks recovering. Bifidus may work for people without gut issues, but it is not a team player and has a habit of overgrowing wildly in the unbalanced ecology of our damaged guts.For the parameters of the diet, here is my file of basics, obviously aimed at the SCDer himself or herself, not someone implementing it for a child.Page 43 of BTVC gives the details, but the basics are:==> Any cereal grain is strictly and absolutely forbidden. (BTVC p49), including, but not limited to, wheat, corn, oats, rice, rye, millet, buckwheat, triticale, etc. This means none in any form. Bread, cake, toast, macaroni, etc. etc. is absolutely forbidden if made with grain.==> Carbohydrates (starches and sugars) other than those found in fruits, honey, properly prepared yogurt, and certain vegetables are also forbidden.==> Liquid milk is forbidden. Milk must be properly fermented, as yogurt, or as cheese made with rennet or other enzymes. Some people find even yogurt which has been fermented for 24 hours difficult to digest, and do better with "dripped" or "drained" yogurt, also called yogurt cheese. Small amounts of heavy cream, treated with lactaid drops, and kept in the refrigerator for 24 hours after treatment may be used in coffee or tea.==> Most beans (legumes) are forbidden. Dried white (navy) beans, lentils, split peas, and both dried and fresh lima beans are permitted. (BTVC, p 53-54) These must be prepared according to the directions in the Gourmet Section of BTVC: specifically, they must be soaked for at least eight hours, drained (throw away the soak water), rinsed, and then cooked until tender in fresh water. All legumes other than the ones mentioned above are illegal. Illegal legumes include, but are not limited to chick peas, bean sprouts, soybeans, mung beans, faba beans, garbanzo beans, and pinto beans. ==> Canned, processed vegetables are forbidden. They often have unlisted sugar or starch. Use fresh, or fresh frozen. Be sure to peel and seed these at the beginning of the diet.==> Most canned fruits are illegal. Read labels carefully, and only use those packed in their own juice with no added sweeteners. Fresh or fresh frozen are preferred. In the early stages of the diet, all fruits should be peeled, seeded, and cooked. ==> All sweeteners except saccharin and filtered honey are forbidden. Be especially wary of any products labeled "sugar-free" - even those without illegal aspartame will often have mannitol and sorbitol, which are sugar alcohols. Products containing these are allowed to call themselves "sugar free" because alcohol sugars are indigestible by human beings.. But the bad bugs in your gut will have a marvelous time dining on them, and keep you sick!==> Be aware that fruits and raw vegetables have laxative qualities, so if active diarrhea is your reason for coming to the SCD, these must be used with caution until normal function resumes. These same raw fruits and vegetables can also cause other forms of gastric upset, like gas, queasy stomach, etc. if you eat them too early in the diet.==> Everyone is different. Cooked carrots, as an example, are usually well tolerated by most people, one reason they are included on the introductory diet. I, on the other hand, didn't tolerate carrots at all - they simply came through completely undigested. Yet I could eat both cooked and raw broccoli and cauliflower (both notorious for giving people trouble) with impunity. Even legal foods can be a problem if you eat them too soon, or eat too much of them.==> It has taken you quite a few years to become ill; it may very well take months, or even years to heal from all the damage that has been done to your system.==> In any healing situation, it is often a case of two steps forward and one step back. Don't give up! You are giving your body the nutrition it needs, and you have eliminated the foods which made you sick in the first place.— Marilyn New Orleans, Louisiana, USA Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001 Darn Good SCD Cook No Human Children Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

At 02:43 PM 6/24/2008, you wrote:

Heh! Maybe you should

stick a copy of that in files, Marilyn, so we can

just refer new people to that and you don't have to write it again.

Funny, I was just thinking I ought to, myself. GMTA!

—

Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the replies - I have read the book but am still not

understanding why a disaccaride (sugar) is not allowed but long chain

poly-saccarides (from veg) is allowed. I didn't think this was

explained in the book? Maybe I missed that part?

I have a feeling it is simply because it IS possible to cut out sugar

but NOT possible to do with no fibre (and maybe carbohydrates?) as i

found when i went to the loo the other day!

I guess sometimes you have to accept things with bling faith but it's

harder than understanding why something happens.

[Guest guest]

At 03:14 AM 6/25/2008, you wrote:

I have a feeling it is simply

because it IS possible to cut out sugar but NOT possible to do with no

fibre (and maybe carbohydrates?)

The SCD is NOT based on " blind faith " . Dr. Sidney Valentine Haas

published accounts of more than 600 cases in 1951 and was hailed as the

savior of people with digestive disorders. Then along came the notion

that it was gluten, and gluten-free products looks to be profitable, so

" celiac " was re-defined as " gluten-intolerant " and

people all but forgot Dr. Haas' work.

The SCD is also NOT a low or a no carbohydrate diet. Our carbohydrates

are monosaccharides which are easily absorbed, and this do not feed the

bad bacteria in our guts. Our carbohydrates come from fruit, vegetables,

honey, and properly prepared SCD yogurt.

We eliminate polysaccharides and dissacharides because we lack the

ability to digest and absorb them with our damaged guts. The way in which

a few of them are handled as part of a whole food is very different from

the way a platter of spaghetti followed by a candy bar would be.

Fiber is highly over-rated, but FYI, almond flour has more fiber than

Metamucil, according to an advertisement I saw in a GI's office in 2002.

This was Metamucil's own advertising, btw. Though it was before almonds

were discovered to be " heart healthy, " so of course the

advertising pushed how much better Metamucil (which is nothing but SCD

illegal psyllium husks and SCD illegal flavorings) was for you

thanalmonds with all that FAT -- except that the fat in almonds is a good

fat!

—

Marilyn

New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

Undiagnosed IBS since 1976, SCD since 2001

Darn Good SCD Cook

No Human Children

Shadow & Sunny Longhair Dachshund