Re: Sociopathic borderlines??

[Guest guest]

yes, I've heard them...I guess I have a hard time understanding how they got

to be like this...her parents didn't treat her this way, so what makes her

think it's OK to treat her kids this way...where did this behavior come

from, since she didn't learn it from her parents...

Jackie

Because the Cluster B individual gets to make all the rules, and have all

things her own way, all the time. Remember the Cluster B motto: " Its Always

All About Me. "

more mottos:

" What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine. "

" Do as I say, not as I do. "

-Annie

[Guest guest]

I think it must be because their brains are just wired wrong, that its inherent

to the individual. They were born that way, like being born color-blind. It

just happens.

At least, that seems to be the case with my bpd/npd mother; she is the only one

in her immediate and extended foo with a personality disorder. She wasn't

screamed at, humiliated or beaten, ignored or neglected when she was growing up,

yet she did that to her kids and her husband.

Neither of my mom's sisters are like that. Both of my mother's sisters were

bewildered to hear that my mom claims that all three of them were badly abused

as children; they do not corroborate her version of their childhood at all.

Neither of my mom's parents are like that; they were kind and gentle to all

their grand-kids and showed no pd traits.

My mother must simply have been born with some kind of weird, messed-up brain

chemistry or bad wiring or something. She has " cognitive distortion " , meaning

she sees and interprets and remembers reality a lot differently than other

people do. I personally am convinced its something you're born with, or perhaps

acquire as the result of an unknown or unrecognized brain injury.

The most widely accepted current theory is that bpd happens because of a

combination of predisposing genes and an invalidating environment.

This is the important point: " invalidating " means that the bpd individual will

perceive a normal, ordinary environment as stressful, frustrating, negative or

invalidating even if it isn't perceived that way by most other people. That's

what " cognitive distortion " is: a perception and interpretation of self, others

and events that deviates markedly from the expectations of the individual's

culture.

Its also about hyper-super-sensitivity to incoming perceptions of the

environment, or " No emotional skin. "

Examples: Mommy is temporarily distracted, but the hyper-sensitive toddler takes

a lack of instant gratification as rejection and abandonment and becomes badly

upset. Mommy says, " No, no, mustn't touch (the hot plate) " and taps the

toddler's hand away, and the toddler perceives that as a frightening and painful

punishment.

So since the hyper-super-sensitive child feels perpetually ignored, abandoned,

criticized, punished, unhappy, etc., she or he develops distorted and unhealthy,

manipulative ways of dealing with the perceived invalidating and unjust

environment.

This seems like the most logical theory to me, so far, to explain my mother's

situation.

-Annie

>

> yes, I've heard them...I guess I have a hard time understanding how they got

> to be like this...her parents didn't treat her this way, so what makes her

> think it's OK to treat her kids this way...where did this behavior come

> from, since she didn't learn it from her parents...

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> Because the Cluster B individual gets to make all the rules, and have all

> things her own way, all the time. Remember the Cluster B motto: " Its Always

> All About Me. "

>

> more mottos:

> " What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine. "

> " Do as I say, not as I do. "

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

that makes sense, thanks..my nada is the youngest of 9 kids, and none of

them were like her, nor her parents...so I know it cant be a learned

behavior, like is her mother were BPD My nada never claimed to be

abused...but I have the feeling she didn't get along with her parents, and

she never spoke of them..this is just so baffling to me as my dogs epilepsy

is...he didn't start having seizures until he was 6 1/2 years old, the POOF,

he has grand mal seizures every 2 weeks ...the only thing in his environment

that changed was his sister died 2 weeks before his seizures started...how

can things that never cause seizures suddenly now causes him to have a

seizure...just weird and baffling

Jackie

I think it must be because their brains are just wired wrong, that its

inherent to the individual. They were born that way, like being born

color-blind. It just happens.

At least, that seems to be the case with my bpd/npd mother; she is the only

one in her immediate and extended foo with a personality disorder. She

wasn't screamed at, humiliated or beaten, ignored or neglected when she was

growing up, yet she did that to her kids and her husband.

Neither of my mom's sisters are like that. Both of my mother's sisters were

bewildered to hear that my mom claims that all three of them were badly

abused as children; they do not corroborate her version of their childhood

at all. Neither of my mom's parents are like that; they were kind and

gentle to all their grand-kids and showed no pd traits.

My mother must simply have been born with some kind of weird, messed-up

brain chemistry or bad wiring or something. She has " cognitive distortion " ,

meaning she sees and interprets and remembers reality a lot differently than

other people do. I personally am convinced its something you're born with,

or perhaps acquire as the result of an unknown or unrecognized brain injury.

The most widely accepted current theory is that bpd happens because of a

combination of predisposing genes and an invalidating environment.

This is the important point: " invalidating " means that the bpd individual

will perceive a normal, ordinary environment as stressful, frustrating,

negative or invalidating even if it isn't perceived that way by most other

people. That's what " cognitive distortion " is: a perception and

interpretation of self, others and events that deviates markedly from the

expectations of the individual's culture.

Its also about hyper-super-sensitivity to incoming perceptions of the

environment, or " No emotional skin. "

Examples: Mommy is temporarily distracted, but the hyper-sensitive toddler

takes a lack of instant gratification as rejection and abandonment and

becomes badly upset. Mommy says, " No, no, mustn't touch (the hot plate) "

and taps the toddler's hand away, and the toddler perceives that as a

frightening and painful punishment.

So since the hyper-super-sensitive child feels perpetually ignored,

abandoned, criticized, punished, unhappy, etc., she or he develops distorted

and unhealthy, manipulative ways of dealing with the perceived invalidating

and unjust environment.

This seems like the most logical theory to me, so far, to explain my

mother's situation.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

Jackie,

I ask myself this a lot too... and, with my therapist's help, here's the 'Best

I've Got. "

Nada is stuck in ages 9 -12 emotionally.

By her own admission " all her issues " go back to " 8th grade. " She claims that

that is when " everything fell apart. " She's now 63.

I know that in 8th grade she was tutored at home for most of the year because

she had, what they thought at the time, was Rheumatic Fever. The whole family,

with 5 other kids, STOPPED for her.

I know that in order for her to graduate from H.S., her mother (who worked at

the HS in the office) had to 'fudge' her grades.

I know that she married my bio-dad to 'escape' her miserable homelife (rather

than wait the 2 months to go to college.)

The rest is downhill and chaotic but her life centers around two themes: 1) When

she's sick she gets attention and gets to control people and those who DON'T

play into it are branded BAD and UNCARING and EVIL, and 2) Men are only there to

rescue you. Period. Use them.

All the other BPD behaviours are simply her chosen coping skills when things go

badly. As they often do.

My Nada's whole belief system is based on that " 8th grade " year... so much in

fact, that she brought it up, again, last week... never mind that IF that is the

source of everything, it is HER responsibility to get through/over it... she

won't... ever. Why should she? She has the perfect story: She was SICK and,

therefore, it wasn't HER fault.

She's correct on that... what she's so wrong about is the following 50+ years of

bad behavior.

So, it's all about her. All the time. And wickedly " justified " in her own

mind.

Does your Nada have a " start point " that is the 'fallback excuse?'

Check it out.

Lynnette

>

> yes, I've heard them...I guess I have a hard time understanding how they got

> to be like this...her parents didn't treat her this way, so what makes her

> think it's OK to treat her kids this way...where did this behavior come

> from, since she didn't learn it from her parents...

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> Because the Cluster B individual gets to make all the rules, and have all

> things her own way, all the time. Remember the Cluster B motto: " Its Always

> All About Me. "

>

> more mottos:

> " What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine. "

> " Do as I say, not as I do. "

>

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynnette, how interesting about your nada...no, my nada doesn't have a

fallback point...and she hardly ever has talked about her childhood except

to say she was very popular and had a lot of friends ...her older sister,

though once told me that nada was a terrible brat, and spoiled to

pieces..she was the youngest of 9, but raised as almost an only child

because she was a menopause baby...the next youngest was 14 years older than

her....

Jackie

Jackie,

I ask myself this a lot too... and, with my therapist's help, here's the

'Best I've Got. "

Nada is stuck in ages 9 -12 emotionally.

By her own admission " all her issues " go back to " 8th grade. " She claims

that that is when " everything fell apart. " She's now 63.

I know that in 8th grade she was tutored at home for most of the year

because she had, what they thought at the time, was Rheumatic Fever. The

whole family, with 5 other kids, STOPPED for her.

I know that in order for her to graduate from H.S., her mother (who worked

at the HS in the office) had to 'fudge' her grades.

I know that she married my bio-dad to 'escape' her miserable homelife

(rather than wait the 2 months to go to college.)

The rest is downhill and chaotic but her life centers around two themes: 1)

When she's sick she gets attention and gets to control people and those who

DON'T play into it are branded BAD and UNCARING and EVIL, and 2) Men are

only there to rescue you. Period. Use them.

All the other BPD behaviours are simply her chosen coping skills when things

go badly. As they often do.

My Nada's whole belief system is based on that " 8th grade " year... so much

in fact, that she brought it up, again, last week... never mind that IF that

is the source of everything, it is HER responsibility to get through/over

it... she won't... ever. Why should she? She has the perfect story: She

was SICK and, therefore, it wasn't HER fault.

She's correct on that... what she's so wrong about is the following 50+

years of bad behavior.

So, it's all about her. All the time. And wickedly " justified " in her own

mind.

Does your Nada have a " start point " that is the 'fallback excuse?'

Check it out.

Lynnette

[Guest guest]

Wow,yes,my nada has a " start point " --and she even refers to it in that way,as in

" that's when everything got so bad for me " ...It's from when she was nine and had

to have an emergency appendectomy.I find it hard to believe she's even as mature

as a nine year old,but I could consider she's definitely not older than that!

Her " start point " pisses me off because my own childhood was so awful one

of my HAPPIEST memories is when I actually got taken to the emergency room when

I was seven to get the bottom of my foot stitched up after I stepped on a broken

bottle.Having someone actually take care of me,actually care--it was lovely.I

was so thrilled of course I didn't cry and the doctor and nurse said they'd

never seen such a calm and composed kid and they gave me half of the lollipops

in the jar they had for being " so great " . They might have noticed it totally

wasn't normal,huh?

So nada's experience with having her life saved is kind of hard to me to

relate to as the tragedy she tells it as.A big part of her " start point " story

is how AFTERWARD that's when she started pulling out her eyebrows and

eyelashes,after she was home and her mother was waiting on her hand and

foot.Sounds like milking it for all it was worth to me.

She did learn something from that experience,though: at one point before

they married fada broke up with her,so she just stopped eating.Her girlfriends

intervened when she hit 85 pounds and told my fada that if he didn't get back

with her,she was just going to waste away.

I wonder if she really would have if he hadn't gone back to her?

> >

> > yes, I've heard them...I guess I have a hard time understanding how they got

> > to be like this...her parents didn't treat her this way, so what makes her

> > think it's OK to treat her kids this way...where did this behavior come

> > from, since she didn't learn it from her parents...

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > Because the Cluster B individual gets to make all the rules, and have all

> > things her own way, all the time. Remember the Cluster B motto: " Its Always

> > All About Me. "

> >

> > more mottos:

> > " What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine. "

> > " Do as I say, not as I do. "

> >

> > -Annie

> >

>