Re: The facade of a caring mother

[Guest guest]

Thanks. I should mention that *everything* I brought up-even in the recent past

(less than 1 year) she said " This is not the time nor place for that. " and " In

another format, like with a mediator, we can discuss this. " I told her that I

didn't trust her because: she has been spreading lies about me and my husband,

she has threatened to sue us, she has expressed anger towards other family

members that talk to me, and has strategically given me the cold shoulder re:

certain family events. Of course she denied every single one of those things.

She did acknowledge that she looked into suing us, and even tho according to her

she still could (she thinks she has grandparents rights on her side) she told me

that she is not persuing that because she claims to have saved an email that

says I promise to LIE if we go to court (I have NO idea what the heck she is

refering to???) and that *I* have ruined her " wonderful relationship " she has

with each of her grandchildren. I reminded her that the grandchildren LIVED next

door to her FOR SEVEN YEARS and SAW first hand how scary she can be, but she

INSISTS that she NEVER showed her anger in front of them. And that anything they

" remember " is memory PUT THERE BY ME. ugh.

>

> Oh, geez. I hate that " the ball is in your court " phrase. That's how they

> avoid the blame themselves, by subtly shifting it to us. My parents did

> this, but I stayed NC which has been tough, but very nice. I am afraid of

> what relatives will say, but I'll repeat what one other member said on this

> group that is very appropriate, in this case. If relatives or friends start

> bothering you about your NC or LC with your mother, tell them that you don't

> want to talk about it. They need to read about Borderline Personality

> Disorder first, and then you can talk with them about your BP parent.

>

> Oh...it was the perfect phrase! Can anybody copy/paste it here, please?

> Anyway, you get the gist

>

> ~Holly

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" Only a few digs that she reeled in. "

Mothers don't play that game. Nadas do.

Mothers don't put ultimatums on their relationships with their children. Nadas

do.

Mothers don't create alientating situations for the FOO: they don't rip the

social foundation out from under their children. Nadas do.

Mothers don't test their children's love. Nadas do.

Nadas are only capable of seeing, hearing, acting in a way that stirs, then

calms, their inner waves of crashing emotions. That is what they serve - their

own turmoil. It is their Lord and Master. Period. The " who " , " what " , " when " ,

" where " , " why " and " how " that NORMAL people use to navigate their lives are

things that do not apply to Nadas. Ever. They are not capable of moderation at

the very core. They're capable of creating/maintaing the " facade of the caring

mother " because it does not require real and authentic emotional investment.

There is no risk to the Nada to pretend.

Lynnette

>

> Nada's been really playing this one up lately to get time with my children. I

have been dodging her phone calls for a few weeks. On Sat she called from a

" private number " . I was expecting a contractor in about 15 and thought it was he

calling to cancel. When I picked up and heard her voice I was caught so off

guard that I actually made small talk for about 10 min. I was surprised that she

actually resembled a REAL PERSON. No anger, only a few digs that she quickly

reeled in. She tried to persuade me that she and my sis did not start some awful

rumors about me (that were started awhile ago, but I just found out about). I

polietly told her that I heard her, but that I wasn't buying what she was trying

to sell me. As the conversation I went on, I kept thinking, " OMG-she's like a

*real* person. " We were having a CONVERSATION. She did tell me that she told my

family not to talk to me re: her health issues, and that she told them that to

see if I cared about her enough to call her and check up on her. Apparently I

failed *that* test! lol! Not knowing it was a " test " , I didn't call her,

figuring that she was just being hateful. I guess after talking to her I am left

with 2 questions:

>

> 1. What's the point? She doesn't think she has EVER done anything wrong to me

and even told me she has done nothing but be " supportive of EVERYTHING I

DO-100% " . I feel like I am holding this line FOR NOTHING-cuz she isn't gettin

it, ya know?

>

> 2.She has told me that this is her LAST attempt to have contact with me and

the children. She says the " ball is in my court " . So if I choose never to have

any more contact with her, and she dies a horrible death from cancer (very

likely) how do I show my face to the extended family? I look like an absolute

monster already....

>

[Guest guest]

YES!!! " I should mention that *everything* I brought up-even in the recent past

(less than 1 year) she said " This is not the time nor place for that. "

This is a running joke in my house... EVERY SINGLE TIME I attempt to 'go there'

- anywhere - with Nada, that is the response. It's like a game show of sorts...

Maybe I should make a point value system on how long it takes her to say that

when approached.

Laughing is better than crying cause, Lord knows, ya can't shoot them.

Lynnette

> >

> > Oh, geez. I hate that " the ball is in your court " phrase. That's how they

> > avoid the blame themselves, by subtly shifting it to us. My parents did

> > this, but I stayed NC which has been tough, but very nice. I am afraid of

> > what relatives will say, but I'll repeat what one other member said on this

> > group that is very appropriate, in this case. If relatives or friends start

> > bothering you about your NC or LC with your mother, tell them that you don't

> > want to talk about it. They need to read about Borderline Personality

> > Disorder first, and then you can talk with them about your BP parent.

> >

> > Oh...it was the perfect phrase! Can anybody copy/paste it here, please?

> > Anyway, you get the gist

> >

> > ~Holly

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

The point isn't too make her get it, because that's not going to

happen, but rather it is to protect yourself and your family.

If she's going to die a horrible death from cancer, that's not

your fault and whether or not you're in touch with her isn't

going to change it. Don't let her push the responsbility for her

misbehavior onto you. If the rest of your extended family is too

enmeshed with her to understand that she's been abusive to you,

you're left with the choices of trying to explain to them why

you've acted the way you have or letting them continue to feel

that way. I don't think you should base your decision on how to

protect yourself and your children on what they think you should

do. If they think you're a monster for not being in touch with

her, I doubt that's going to change if you give in for a while

now.

Even though you had something that resembled a real

conversation, your description of it has several red flags for

nada-like behavior. Just a few digs? Why would a mother want to

make any? Why would a real mother be in the position to need to

convince you that she hadn't spread nasty rumors about you? Why

would a real mother test you by telling the rest of the family

not to tell you about her health problems? Why would a real

mother block her phone number?

At 08:35 AM 03/03/2010 my4fireflies wrote:

>Nada's been really playing this one up lately to get time with

>my children. I have been dodging her phone calls for a few

>weeks. On Sat she called from a " private number " . I was

>expecting a contractor in about 15 and thought it was he

>calling to cancel. When I picked up and heard her voice I was

>caught so off guard that I actually made small talk for about

>10 min. I was surprised that she actually resembled a REAL

>PERSON. No anger, only a few digs that she quickly reeled in.

>She tried to persuade me that she and my sis did not start some

>awful rumors about me (that were started awhile ago, but I just

>found out about). I polietly told her that I heard her, but

>that I wasn't buying what she was trying to sell me. As the

>conversation I went on, I kept thinking, " OMG-she's like a

>*real* person. " We were having a CONVERSATION. She did tell me

>that she told my family not to talk to me re: her health

>issues, and that she told them that to see if I cared about her

>enough to call her and check up on her. Apparently I failed

>*that* test! lol! Not knowing it was a " test " , I didn't call

>her, figuring that she was just being hateful. I guess after

>talking to her I am left with 2 questions:

>

>1. What's the point? She doesn't think she has EVER done

>anything wrong to me and even told me she has done nothing but

>be " supportive of EVERYTHING I DO-100% " . I feel like I am

>holding this line FOR NOTHING-cuz she isn't gettin it, ya know?

>

>2.She has told me that this is her LAST attempt to have contact

>with me and the children. She says the " ball is in my court " .

>So if I choose never to have any more contact with her, and she

>dies a horrible death from cancer (very likely) how do I show

>my face to the extended family? I look like an absolute monster

>already....

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

The ball is in your court? Take your ball and leave! :-)

I get the death of cancer thing...I wonder all the time what will happen when

nada finally does die (most likely from her leukemia or complications of it if

her husband doesn't poison her first). I know I look bad to some members of my

family, but as my time of NC grows longer I find that my family members

understand more than I give them credit for. They've started to get to know me

AS me, not as who she says I am.

It took me a long long long time to accept that other people are going to make

up their own minds no matter what I do, and to believe that if I allow them,

they'll usually be pretty rational about it. And if they aren't? Drama I don't

need anyway.

Anyway...do what is best for YOU and YOUR CHILDREN...whether it is NC or

not...and just live your life the way you believe is right. Sure, some people

will judge that negatively. But most will start to see you clear of her

warpings and finally see YOU, not her version of you.

Ninera

>

> Subject: The facade of a caring mother

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Wednesday, March 3, 2010, 1:35 PM

> Nada's been really playing this one

> up lately to get time with my children. I have been dodging

> her phone calls for a few weeks. On Sat she called from a

> " private number " . I was expecting a contractor in about 15

> and thought it was he calling to cancel. When I picked up

> and heard her voice I was caught so off guard that I

> actually made small talk for about 10 min. I was surprised

> that she actually resembled a REAL PERSON. No anger, only a

> few digs that she quickly reeled in. She tried to persuade

> me that she and my sis did not start some awful rumors about

> me (that were started awhile ago, but I just found out

> about). I polietly told her that I heard her, but that I

> wasn't buying what she was trying to sell me. As the

> conversation I went on, I kept thinking, " OMG-she's like a

> *real* person. " We were having a CONVERSATION. She did tell

> me that she told my family not to talk to me re: her health

> issues, and that she told them that to see if I cared about

> her enough to call her and check up on her. Apparently I

> failed *that* test! lol! Not knowing it was a " test " , I

> didn't call her, figuring that she was just being hateful. I

> guess after talking to her I am left with 2 questions:

>

> 1. What's the point? She doesn't think she has EVER done

> anything wrong to me and even told me she has done nothing

> but be " supportive of EVERYTHING I DO-100% " . I feel like I

> am holding this line FOR NOTHING-cuz she isn't gettin it, ya

> know?

>

> 2.She has told me that this is her LAST attempt to have

> contact with me and the children. She says the " ball is in

> my court " . So if I choose never to have any more contact

> with her, and she dies a horrible death from cancer (very

> likely) how do I show my face to the extended family? I look

> like an absolute monster already....

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

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>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call

> 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to

> “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and

> “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can

> find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community

> and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

" Laughing is better than crying cause, Lord knows, ya can't shoot them. "

Well, damn. There goes Plan B.

(kidding...sort of...)

> > >

> > > Oh, geez. I hate that " the ball is in your court " phrase. That's how they

> > > avoid the blame themselves, by subtly shifting it to us. My parents did

> > > this, but I stayed NC which has been tough, but very nice. I am afraid of

> > > what relatives will say, but I'll repeat what one other member said on

this

> > > group that is very appropriate, in this case. If relatives or friends

start

> > > bothering you about your NC or LC with your mother, tell them that you

don't

> > > want to talk about it. They need to read about Borderline Personality

> > > Disorder first, and then you can talk with them about your BP parent.

> > >

> > > Oh...it was the perfect phrase! Can anybody copy/paste it here, please?

> > > Anyway, you get the gist

> > >

> > > ~Holly

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Or make a bingo chart with different sayings or topics you know might be brought

up. Imagine her surprise if after " not the time or place " you yelled BINGO and

hung up the phone!

[Guest guest]

Sorry to be a Buzz-kill.

Lynnette

> > > >

> > > > Oh, geez. I hate that " the ball is in your court " phrase. That's how

they

> > > > avoid the blame themselves, by subtly shifting it to us. My parents did

> > > > this, but I stayed NC which has been tough, but very nice. I am afraid

of

> > > > what relatives will say, but I'll repeat what one other member said on

this

> > > > group that is very appropriate, in this case. If relatives or friends

start

> > > > bothering you about your NC or LC with your mother, tell them that you

don't

> > > > want to talk about it. They need to read about Borderline Personality

> > > > Disorder first, and then you can talk with them about your BP parent.

> > > >

> > > > Oh...it was the perfect phrase! Can anybody copy/paste it here, please?

> > > > Anyway, you get the gist

> > > >

> > > > ~Holly

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

" The facade of a caring mother " - the title says it all.

>

> Nada's been really playing this one up lately to get time with my children. I

have been dodging her phone calls for a few weeks. On Sat she called from a

" private number " . I was expecting a contractor in about 15 and thought it was he

calling to cancel. When I picked up and heard her voice I was caught so off

guard that I actually made small talk for about 10 min. I was surprised that she

actually resembled a REAL PERSON. No anger, only a few digs that she quickly

reeled in. She tried to persuade me that she and my sis did not start some awful

rumors about me (that were started awhile ago, but I just found out about). I

polietly told her that I heard her, but that I wasn't buying what she was trying

to sell me. As the conversation I went on, I kept thinking, " OMG-she's like a

*real* person. " We were having a CONVERSATION. She did tell me that she told my

family not to talk to me re: her health issues, and that she told them that to

see if I cared about her enough to call her and check up on her. Apparently I

failed *that* test! lol! Not knowing it was a " test " , I didn't call her,

figuring that she was just being hateful. I guess after talking to her I am left

with 2 questions:

>

> 1. What's the point? She doesn't think she has EVER done anything wrong to me

and even told me she has done nothing but be " supportive of EVERYTHING I

DO-100% " . I feel like I am holding this line FOR NOTHING-cuz she isn't gettin

it, ya know?

>

> 2.She has told me that this is her LAST attempt to have contact with me and

the children. She says the " ball is in my court " . So if I choose never to have

any more contact with her, and she dies a horrible death from cancer (very

likely) how do I show my face to the extended family? I look like an absolute

monster already....

>

[Guest guest]

Sweet!

I just coughed/laughed so hard I'm choking...

Lynnette

>

> Or make a bingo chart with different sayings or topics you know might be

brought up. Imagine her surprise if after " not the time or place " you yelled

BINGO and hung up the phone!

>

[Guest guest]

Bingo!

ROFL!! Oh my gosh, that gave me back my sense of humor. I have to

make a bingo card soon! Well, maybe not so soon. Realized yesterday I

gave my nada her pink slip in her last call. She might not be calling

me again any time soon.

I have a greater feeling of peace in my life than ever before.

In another thread, someone mentioned bad habits? I am a picker and a

fingernail biter from way back. Largely reformed, but easily activated

and I have not figured out the exact trigger yet.

Well, my mental attention to my mom is a little bit like scab-picking.

Dare say that fits. It feels very nice to FINALLY stop crediting my

mother for qualities that are actually my own.

Best,

[Guest guest]

My nada ALWAYS plays the " caring mother " facade. It's hilarious that all nadas

try to play that role when it is ALWAYS the exact opposite of what they truly

are. I suppose my nada actually BELIEVES this is true too!! It's infuriating

because all the FOO believe it too. Nada will weep and whine about how she was

such a good mother and how my sister and I are uncaring and hateful daughters.

The FOO expect the children to take care of the mother and cater to her mental

needs etc.

A CHILD SHOULD NEVER PARENT THE PARENT. Why is this never clear?!? How can we

say over and over " She's abusive. She's mentally ill. These are not 'normal'

mother-daughter tiffs. " And then the FOO cry back to you about what will happen

when nada dies or whatever. As if we will forever " regret " and " feel guilty. "

I think my nada wishes she would die/something tragic would happen to her just

so she could get attention and sympathy. Makes me sick.

We all look like monsters to the FOO. The nadas always get what they want. If

you ignore them--they WILL try and destroy you (but claim they never did).

I'm with you, what's the point then?

>

> Nada's been really playing this one up lately to get time with my children. I

have been dodging her phone calls for a few weeks. On Sat she called from a

" private number " . I was expecting a contractor in about 15 and thought it was he

calling to cancel. When I picked up and heard her voice I was caught so off

guard that I actually made small talk for about 10 min. I was surprised that she

actually resembled a REAL PERSON. No anger, only a few digs that she quickly

reeled in. She tried to persuade me that she and my sis did not start some awful

rumors about me (that were started awhile ago, but I just found out about). I

polietly told her that I heard her, but that I wasn't buying what she was trying

to sell me. As the conversation I went on, I kept thinking, " OMG-she's like a

*real* person. " We were having a CONVERSATION. She did tell me that she told my

family not to talk to me re: her health issues, and that she told them that to

see if I cared about her enough to call her and check up on her. Apparently I

failed *that* test! lol! Not knowing it was a " test " , I didn't call her,

figuring that she was just being hateful. I guess after talking to her I am left

with 2 questions:

>

> 1. What's the point? She doesn't think she has EVER done anything wrong to me

and even told me she has done nothing but be " supportive of EVERYTHING I

DO-100% " . I feel like I am holding this line FOR NOTHING-cuz she isn't gettin

it, ya know?

>

> 2.She has told me that this is her LAST attempt to have contact with me and

the children. She says the " ball is in my court " . So if I choose never to have

any more contact with her, and she dies a horrible death from cancer (very

likely) how do I show my face to the extended family? I look like an absolute

monster already....

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Fireflies - It sounds like your mother has done lots of unloving things to

you. No wonder you don't trust her! I wouldn't either. My mother is 82 years

old and still doing that kind of thing, even though it caused nearly all of her

family to flee as far as possible from her.

You asked, what's the point. I'm not sure what you're asking. If you are

asking, " What's the point of getting away from this kind of mother? " I think

the point of staying away from a brutal mother is to take care of ourselves and

avoid being hurt - not to change the mother. If you're asking " What's the

point of talking to this like of mother, " I think the point of talking to the

mother a little now and then is to be as loving as we are able to be without

exposing ourselves to too much pain -- but again it will not change the mother.

You may be right that the extended family will judge you if you stay totally

away from her -- but you may be surprised at how much they will understand, and

frankly they do not have the right to judge you. If you want to avoid the pain

of being judged, maybe the solution is limited contact. This is what works for

me.

I set up a Limited Contact plan for myself. I call her every Sunday (once a

week is all I can take) to check on her and chat pleasantly for 10 minutes. If

she says or does anything that feels abusive to me (there are some good articles

online that describe emotional abuse -- and it's very interesting what

qualifies), I politely say " Well, I have to go now. I hope you have a good

week. " And then I hang up.

I have accepted that I cannot change her, so I do not get into trying to correct

her or fix her or defnd myself. If she calls back to try to belabor a point I do

not answer, and I don't call again until the following week (although I do

return her calls if she calls with a legitimate prolbem and needs help). With

this plan, she knows I care about her, the relatives cannot fault me, and I am

respecting myself by refusing to tolerate abuse. I'll never be able to trust

her, and she'll never be the mother of my dreams, but I feel this minimizes the

damage and lets me get on with my life.

Blessings to you. I hope this helps.

>

> Nada's been really playing this one up lately to get time with my children. I

have been dodging her phone calls for a few weeks. On Sat she called from a

" private number " . I was expecting a contractor in about 15 and thought it was he

calling to cancel. When I picked up and heard her voice I was caught so off

guard that I actually made small talk for about 10 min. I was surprised that she

actually resembled a REAL PERSON. No anger, only a few digs that she quickly

reeled in. She tried to persuade me that she and my sis did not start some awful

rumors about me (that were started awhile ago, but I just found out about). I

polietly told her that I heard her, but that I wasn't buying what she was trying

to sell me. As the conversation I went on, I kept thinking, " OMG-she's like a

*real* person. " We were having a CONVERSATION. She did tell me that she told my

family not to talk to me re: her health issues, and that she told them that to

see if I cared about her enough to call her and check up on her. Apparently I

failed *that* test! lol! Not knowing it was a " test " , I didn't call her,

figuring that she was just being hateful. I guess after talking to her I am left

with 2 questions:

>

> 1. What's the point? She doesn't think she has EVER done anything wrong to me

and even told me she has done nothing but be " supportive of EVERYTHING I

DO-100% " . I feel like I am holding this line FOR NOTHING-cuz she isn't gettin

it, ya know?

>

> 2.She has told me that this is her LAST attempt to have contact with me and

the children. She says the " ball is in my court " . So if I choose never to have

any more contact with her, and she dies a horrible death from cancer (very

likely) how do I show my face to the extended family? I look like an absolute

monster already....

>