Re: Paramedic KSAs (Knowledge, Skills, Abilities)

[Guest guest]

Steve,

I hope not to crap your thread by posting a reply which does not answer

your question. But you make a good point that I want to comment upon:

Steve wrote:

> The " a college degree makes you a more rounded person and

> better critical thinker " crowd and the " education doesn't help me start

> an IV any better " crowd are never going to just come to an agreement.

Of course, the former crowd is absolutely right. However, their

assertion is so myopic that it only proves the very point they are

attempting to dispute. Any medic who believes that the practice of EMS

is only the sum of it's technical skills is a dangerous person. I don't

know what the official KSA's are. However, as a so-called " Dinomedic "

who also happens to have a nursing degree, I can confidently assure

anyone with any doubt that the KNOWLEDGE and SKILLS necessary for the

ABILITY to properly assess and diagnose a patient's medical disorders

before rendering those mundane technical skills are absolutely dependent

upon education. We are no longer the " eyes and ears of the doctor " that

ny and Roy were. We are expected to think for ourselves. And

thinking is exactly what a good education (not experience) teaches you

to do.

I would be the very last person here to make the absurd assertion that

adding 30 to 60 hours of unrelated elective hours such as French

Literature and Poetry or Greek Mythology will do anything to make a

better medic. But I can tell you for sure that every medic who

eventually completes a Biology or Nursing degree finds themselves

horrified that they practiced as a medic before having that knowledge.

What the average medic does NOT know about anatomy and physiology, as

well as general biology, chemistry, physics, psychology, sociology, and

English composition is just plain scary.

So now, with it firmly established that education is indeed the key to

the ultimate professionalization, we have to choose which road is

appropriate to take. Do we turn paramedic school into a horrendously

long (two years or more) technical school in order to provide an

appropriately in depth medical education, yet leave them reading,

writing, and speaking like a 12 year old on AOL? Or do we join the

ranks of every other respectable profession and give them that medical

education, AS WELL AS the skill of functional literacy, in a classic

educational setting?

I don't see it as being that hard of a decision.

Rob

[Guest guest]

I absolutely disagree that experience does not teach you to think. Some of the

best common sense problem solvers I have ever known had very little formal

education. Another personal observation--within our local group many the worst

spellers we have had, and many of those who are least able to correctly compose

a sentence, are those who have had at least some college.

Does experience teach you everything? Of course not, but neither does formal

education.

Before anyone blasts me for being anti-education, let me say that I am not

against formal education. I personally fall into the " some college " category,

and would never discourage anyone from furthering their education. I just had

to comment on the idea that experience did not contribute to the ability to

think for ourselves.

Maxine Pate

hire

----- Original Message -----

From: Rob

We are expected to think for ourselves. And

thinking is exactly what a good education (not experience) teaches you

to do.

[Guest guest]

It's not a fully reciprocal relationship.

Education Makes you Think.

Experience gives you skils and knowledge.

So, does that mean experience doesn't make you think? No. BUT, what is

there about experience, essentially the repetition of the activities

over and over again, that alters your thinking PROCESS? I'd say

experience more gives you knowledge, and expands on what you learned in

school and gives you critical knowledge of what works and what

doesn't. So experience gives you more knowledge. Formal education

developes your skills in thinking, in acquiring and processing information.

College makes you a well-prepared beginner, no doubt. But without more

education, we are ill-prepared beginners. Which has the best chance of

becoming a highly-skilled medical professional, the one who was

well-prepared or the one who was ill-prepared?

=Steve=

Maxine Pate wrote:

>I absolutely disagree that experience does not teach you to think. Some of the

best common sense problem solvers I have ever known had very little formal

education. Another personal observation--within our local group many the worst

spellers we have had, and many of those who are least able to correctly compose

a sentence, are those who have had at least some college.

>

>Does experience teach you everything? Of course not, but neither does formal

education.

>

>Before anyone blasts me for being anti-education, let me say that I am not

against formal education. I personally fall into the " some college " category,

and would never discourage anyone from furthering their education. I just had

to comment on the idea that experience did not contribute to the ability to

think for ourselves.

>

>Maxine Pate

>hire

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Rob

>

> We are expected to think for ourselves. And

> thinking is exactly what a good education (not experience) teaches you

> to do.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Maxine Pate wrote:

> I absolutely disagree that experience does not teach you to think. Some

> of the best common sense problem solvers I have ever known had very

> little formal education.

Maxine,

I assure you that we do not essentially disagree on this point.

Operationally speaking, highly developed common sense is every bit as

important as formal education. I too have known many well educated

functional illiterates. Try working with a new graduate from TWU

nursing school once and you'll see what I mean. But it is not an

" either/or " proposition. Common sense cannot take the place of

education. They are both required for professional success.

Rob

[Guest guest]

I once asked my calculus professor why I needed two calculus classes to get a

biology degree. She explained it to me this way.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =

" urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office " />

She said you may never use the formulas and equations need to pass this class in

life. However the processes and experiences you learned in solving these math

problems will help you solve many other types of problems as well.

My 2 cents.

-Mark Hinson

BTW. I enjoyed the lesson so much I took Cal-2, twice.

Re: Paramedic KSAs (Knowledge, Skills, Abilities)

It's not a fully reciprocal relationship.

Education Makes you Think.

Experience gives you skils and knowledge.

So, does that mean experience doesn't make you think? No. BUT, what is

there about experience, essentially the repetition of the activities

over and over again, that alters your thinking PROCESS? I'd say

experience more gives you knowledge, and expands on what you learned in

school and gives you critical knowledge of what works and what

doesn't. So experience gives you more knowledge. Formal education

developes your skills in thinking, in acquiring and processing information.

College makes you a well-prepared beginner, no doubt. But without more

education, we are ill-prepared beginners. Which has the best chance of

becoming a highly-skilled medical professional, the one who was

well-prepared or the one who was ill-prepared?

=Steve=

Maxine Pate wrote:

>I absolutely disagree that experience does not teach you to think. Some of the

best common sense problem solvers I have ever known had very little formal

education. Another personal observation--within our local group many the worst

spellers we have had, and many of those who are least able to correctly compose

a sentence, are those who have had at least some college.

>

>Does experience teach you everything? Of course not, but neither does formal

education.

>

>Before anyone blasts me for being anti-education, let me say that I am not

against formal education. I personally fall into the " some college " category,

and would never discourage anyone from furthering their education. I just had

to comment on the idea that experience did not contribute to the ability to

think for ourselves.

>

>Maxine Pate

>hire

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Rob

>

> We are expected to think for ourselves. And

> thinking is exactly what a good education (not experience) teaches you

> to do.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mark Hinson wrote:

>

> She said you may never use the formulas and equations need to pass this

> class in life. However the processes and experiences you learned in

> solving these math problems will help you solve many other types of

> problems as well.

I second that explanation as a general theory. However I discount it's

corlation to Calculus, or for that matter, to the way we teach

mathematics to paramedic and nursing students. Why? Because it is not

taught as a critical thinking skill used to solve a problem. It is

taught as a set of abstract formulas and rules to be followed to in

order to achieve an end. That is the same as teaching medicine as a set

of cookbook protocols instead of as an evaluative science. Bad idea.

As an example, I was darn near tossed out of nursing school because I

could not/would not solve mathematical calculations by the standard

formula. I could solve the calculations just fine, even quicker and

more accurately than most students. But I did so using a logical

progression of calculations, instead of using the fill-in-the-blanks

" formula " that most educators seem glued to. My instructors were

unwilling to accept that drug dosage calculations could possibly be done

by thinking outside of the box.

That is exactly the sort of thinking that contributes to dooming our

profession to never being a profession.

Rob

[Guest guest]

But, if a paramedic does not understand the concept of adding, subtracting,

multiplying and dividing fractions, how can they solve simple drug problems?

Or, if they cannot do simple algebraic equations (solving for a single

variable), how can they solve a drug equation? I am not talking about

integration or non-linear equations--simple high-school math and algebra.

Just like fluid hydraulics (simple math and physics) is often seen as the

toughest part of fire school, paramedics have the most trouble with medical

math and chemical nomenclature.

Likewise, if they don't understand how a sympathomimetic interacts with the

adrenergic receptors, how can they " think outside the box " and use the drug

when something is outside the protocols?

Paramedics need to be independent thinkers--problem solvers. If not, we

could simply train lower primates (i.e., NASCAR fans) to perform skills when

a given patient exceeds a number of predetermined signs and symptoms.

Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

[http://www.bryanbledsoe.com]

Re: Paramedic KSAs (Knowledge, Skills, Abilities)

Mark Hinson wrote:

>

> She said you may never use the formulas and equations need to pass this

> class in life. However the processes and experiences you learned in

> solving these math problems will help you solve many other types of

> problems as well.

I second that explanation as a general theory. However I discount it's

corlation to Calculus, or for that matter, to the way we teach

mathematics to paramedic and nursing students. Why? Because it is not

taught as a critical thinking skill used to solve a problem. It is

taught as a set of abstract formulas and rules to be followed to in

order to achieve an end. That is the same as teaching medicine as a set

of cookbook protocols instead of as an evaluative science. Bad idea.

As an example, I was darn near tossed out of nursing school because I

could not/would not solve mathematical calculations by the standard

formula. I could solve the calculations just fine, even quicker and

more accurately than most students. But I did so using a logical

progression of calculations, instead of using the fill-in-the-blanks

" formula " that most educators seem glued to. My instructors were

unwilling to accept that drug dosage calculations could possibly be done

by thinking outside of the box.

That is exactly the sort of thinking that contributes to dooming our

profession to never being a profession.

Rob

[Guest guest]

Bledsoe wrote:

>

> Paramedics need to be independent thinkers--problem solvers. If not, we

> could simply train lower primates (i.e., NASCAR fans) to perform skills when

> a given patient exceeds a number of predetermined signs and symptoms.

That's exactly what I was saying. I just didn't stoop to insulting

lower primates.

Rob

[Guest guest]

This isn't unique to EMS or medical professions. I think a lot of

education, particularly in the area of mathematics, is focused on rote

learning and not critical thinking and logical deduction.

As an example of the transferrability of a thought process: I was a

police officer, and learned there the mindset and thought processes of

chasing bad guys. This meant ways of asking questions, and the

techniques of LISTENING to people, and just a lot of ways of

ascertaining information and determining the truth.

Then I went to Paramedic school. Same things (back to math: suspect

Interrogation = witness interview = patient assessment!).

Then I went to work as an auditor. The SAME things were involved: ask

questions properly, LISTEN to the answers, evaluate the information. A

lot of it was what I leared as a police officer. Totally different.

Then I was a computer systems analyst. Guess what? Talk to users, get

their information, LISTEN to what they say, evaluate and determine the

" truth " , etc.

In another case, in high school I learned geometry, and how useful is

that in the real world??? Until I needed to put up an antenna, and

needed to know how long the guy wires were (Pythagorean theorum).

The common thread isn't particular bits of knowledge (IV Drip rate is

NOT EQUAL to Computer Database Volume, etc). It was the METHOD, the

Technique, How I think. That's what we need to focus on, the method,

not the particular results in the case at hand.

=Steve=

Rob wrote:

>Mark Hinson wrote:

>

>

>

>>She said you may never use the formulas and equations need to pass this

>>class in life. However the processes and experiences you learned in

>>solving these math problems will help you solve many other types of

>>problems as well.

>>

>>

>

>

>I second that explanation as a general theory. However I discount it's

>corlation to Calculus, or for that matter, to the way we teach

>mathematics to paramedic and nursing students. Why? Because it is not

>taught as a critical thinking skill used to solve a problem. It is

>taught as a set of abstract formulas and rules to be followed to in

>order to achieve an end. That is the same as teaching medicine as a set

>of cookbook protocols instead of as an evaluative science. Bad idea.

>

>As an example, I was darn near tossed out of nursing school because I

>could not/would not solve mathematical calculations by the standard

>formula. I could solve the calculations just fine, even quicker and

>more accurately than most students. But I did so using a logical

>progression of calculations, instead of using the fill-in-the-blanks

> " formula " that most educators seem glued to. My instructors were

>unwilling to accept that drug dosage calculations could possibly be done

> by thinking outside of the box.

>

>That is exactly the sort of thinking that contributes to dooming our

>profession to never being a profession.

>

>Rob

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Steve wrote:

>

> The common thread isn't particular bits of knowledge (IV Drip rate is

> NOT EQUAL to Computer Database Volume, etc). It was the METHOD, the

> Technique, How I think. That's what we need to focus on, the method,

> not the particular results in the case at hand.

Beautiful analogy! I hope that as EMS education enters the age of

professionalism, those who set the standards will keep that concept

firmly in focus as they choose the expanded curriculum.

Rob

[Guest guest]

Mr. Grady wants to know:

A while ago a paramedic I know who works part time in an ER was griping to me

about not being able to use her paramedic skills there. She was especially

irate about not being allowed to give medications.

I asked her if she had discussed the problem with the ER director, and she

replied that she had. The director had said that she wasn't allowed to give

meds because he had observed that she had really no basic knowledge of

pharmacology.

Since then I have begun to ask some questions in the ACLS courses I teach

designed to bring out the student's knowledge of pharmacology. Some really easy

questions, such as what properties does vasopressin have vs. the properties of

epinephrine.

Nobody really knew. So I went further. I asked why it was that vasopressin

is recommended for ventricular fibrillation but not for asystole. Again, no

answers.

Why is atropine not likely to help in a bradycardic 3 rd degree block with a

ventricular escape rhythm? Not astounding questions but, in my mind,

important for me to know.

I can hear the whining beginning. Weeee doooon't neeeeed to knoooow how

drugs work, Misterrrrrr, Graaaady. We just need to know what drug to givvvvve,

whine, whine, whiiiiiineee...........

Would you want a mechanic working on your Corvette who didn't know why he was

taking the engine apart or what he would find when he had the heads off?

By the same token would you want somebody inserting drugs into your body if

they didn't have the slightest idea of why they were doing it and what was

going to happen inside you when the chemicals got there?

Is it perhaps time that paramedics quit whining that " we don't need to know

that stuff " and just gutted up and learned the stuff that everybody else in the

medical profession seems to have at least a minimum knowledge of?

Somebody mentioned to me today the dismal pass rates Texas medics are scoring

on the National Registry Exams. Could it be.........is it, .....POSSIBLE,

that the reason they can't pass it is that lots of paramedic courses taught in

Texas are so substandard that they don't prepare the student to pass an exam

that every medic in Oklahoma and (ugh) Arkansas can pass?

I am SOOOoooooo tired of people wanting to dumb down instruction. So tired

of hearing people whine that they can't send their people to courses that

actually teach the national standard curriculum because they're too long and too

hard. Soooo tired of people saying that rural people won't take top notch

courses and learn the stuff they, more than any others, need to know about

patient

care.

So tired of the dead end that paramedicine seems to be up against in the

great State of Texas simply because we allowed people to convince us that quick

and easy was all we needed for paramedic education. Now we're seeing the

aftermath.

We have brilliant and well educated and trained medics in this state, but

they are not by any means spread evenly among the services.

When I hear of a huge national EMS provider that will allow its medics to sit

onscene and start two IVs in the house on a GSW to the stomach before loading

and going, when the trauma center is 4 blocks away, it makes me more than

tired. It makes me want to puke.

When I have to fail NREMT candidates on patient assessment because they never

clear secretions out of a patient with obviously semi-obstructed airway but

have time to get two lines before they transport, it makes me wonder just what

kind of course they took and why they didn't learn better.

Why don't we, students and educators alike, resolve to correct this

situation, get our courses up to par, demand that quality instructors be

provided, and

actually LEARN to be medical professionals, starting with the DOT National

Standard Curriculum for Paramedics.

Mr. Grady.

(Mr. Grady's not feeling good today; he's having a tantrum.)

..

[Guest guest]

Mike , LP wrote:

>

> Nope, and the pay gradient has a LOT to do with this. Some medics stay

> where they are because they love the service/community. Most follow the

> money. If pay were more standard, practice would likely even out, too.

If this is true, then why do the big, unionized, civil service FD's have

the fewest great medics?

Rob

[Guest guest]

>If this is true, then why do the big, unionized, civil service FD's have

>the fewest great medics?

>

>Rob

Playing devil's advocate here...

Can you prove that statement or is it just an opinion?

Regards,

Donn

D.E. (Donn) , LP

-------------------

Email sent using AnyEmail (http://netbula.com/anyemail/)

[Guest guest]

donn@... wrote:

>

> Can you prove that statement or is it just an opinion?

Neither a fact, nor an opinion. Merely an objective observation from

thirty years of noticing such things.

Rob

[Guest guest]

>

>i'm going to cry when i have to learn all this stuff

>in medic school, but i agree....

> EMT-B

> >

A paramedic email acquaintance, now an instructor, said paramedic school

was one of the hardest things she'd ever accomplished; she said the

material itself w/n all that difficult, just that there was a tremendous

amount of it.

In my paramedic course (I'm a student), many of the 20 year-olds in class,

receiving as a freeebie handout a 3- or 4-pg. list of med. abbreviations,

'whine' Do we have to memorize all this stuff by such-and-such a date?

(next quiz, next week) And 3/4 of the stuff on the list, they should know

already. Or is this just life experience? (I'm past the 30- and even

40-year-old stage.)

I'm finding there's a LOT of highly useful, med-related information readily

available, not necessarily 'required' in the course; much of which I think

w/b essential knowledge. So I'm working on that, too.

Just my opinion--feeling or sense w/b more accurate--if one limits oneself

to what is 'required' in a course, that's absolutely the most one can get

out of it, & probably w/n get that much.

And all we're talking about here is (part of) the K, not the S & A.

Conley Harmon

----------

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[Guest guest]

You hit the one of the big nails right ton the head, there!

>

> Define " quality instructor. " Name one body that accredits, nationally,

> paramedic educators, programs or courses. A rhetorical question, but one

> you're free to elaborate on.

>

> Mike

>

[Guest guest]

I want all the information I can get when I attend a course I go for the

knowledge that I can pass on to my patients when they need it not a card.

Re: Paramedic KSAs (Knowledge, Skills, Abilities)

>

> >

> >i'm going to cry when i have to learn all this stuff

> >in medic school, but i agree....

> > EMT-B

> > >

>

> A paramedic email acquaintance, now an instructor, said paramedic school

> was one of the hardest things she'd ever accomplished; she said the

> material itself w/n all that difficult, just that there was a tremendous

> amount of it.

>

> In my paramedic course (I'm a student), many of the 20 year-olds in class,

> receiving as a freeebie handout a 3- or 4-pg. list of med. abbreviations,

> 'whine' Do we have to memorize all this stuff by such-and-such a date?

> (next quiz, next week) And 3/4 of the stuff on the list, they should know

> already. Or is this just life experience? (I'm past the 30- and even

> 40-year-old stage.)

>

> I'm finding there's a LOT of highly useful, med-related information

readily

> available, not necessarily 'required' in the course; much of which I think

> w/b essential knowledge. So I'm working on that, too.

>

> Just my opinion--feeling or sense w/b more accurate--if one limits oneself

> to what is 'required' in a course, that's absolutely the most one can get

> out of it, & probably w/n get that much.

>

> And all we're talking about here is (part of) the K, not the S & A.

>

> Conley Harmon

>

>

>

> ----------

>

>

> ---

> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> Version: 6.0.535 / Virus Database: 330 - Release Date: 11/1/03

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Gene,

I hear you, and as usual you have nailed it. We say

" We don't need to know why, just what to do. Give us protocols to follow "

and then we say

" We don't get paid well, and they won't let us do anything " .

Well, which is it?

We don't want to be low-level TECHNICIANS, but don't want to do what it

takes to be MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS.

Which is it?

And the skill thing is a combination of " to a man with a hammer, everything

looks like a nail " . And " wow, isn't this COOL! Look at my spify new gadget

mom! " . I see the same thing in one of my OTHER professions, the computer

business. IT people want to be viewed as " business professionals " , but they

DON'T want to talk to customers, or each other, or document things. They

just want to play with technology, write code and install cool new hardware.

The fundamental thing here, maybe, is the PEOPLE angle. We want to play

with toys, which are shiny, new, and very predictable (click on the blade,

the light goes on. stick the pads on right and turn it on, and the ecg

starts, etc.) People are not shiny, not new, and decidedly not predictable.

In all my years as a teacher and speaker, it's the people side that seems to

be most challenging to my audiences (police officers, ems and medical

personnel, computer types, and auditors). So much so that my most requested

speech at conferences and such is titled

" It's NEVER a Technical Problem, it's ALWAYS a People Problem " .

=Steve=

[Guest guest]

Just remember the secret to all this is what I tell my audiences. So I'll

share it with you for free here:

IYWSYABG

YGDSYABD

=Steve=

S writes:

> i'm going to cry when i have to learn all this stuff

> in medic school, but i agree....

> EMT-B

[Guest guest]

Well there is one group working on Quality in EMS.

It is the National EMS Management Association. It is a collaboration of all the

'top' Quality Improvement minds of our industry. The group is new yet, but they

are very educated in this field. The position papers and drafts are being

developed as we speak.

Check out their website and join the group if it interests you

http://www.nemsma.org/ they are a very willing and eager group to teach and

educate others in the subjects!

They are following Quality standards used in all the rest of industry, and

applying them to EMS. So this obviously would strongly include Educators. I am

not as versed in the subject as most of the others, so if you something about it

that I don't, please do not hesitate to share it!

Regards

Nick

Re: Paramedic KSAs (Knowledge, Skills, Abilities)

You hit the one of the big nails right ton the head, there!

>

> Define " quality instructor. " Name one body that accredits, nationally,

> paramedic educators, programs or courses. A rhetorical question, but one

> you're free to elaborate on.

>

> Mike

>

[Guest guest]

Just a side note Gene...not sure if this is where you were going with your

thought... but if the students cannot answer it in this frame, then they just

'don't know'. I find that most people who take ACLS do not know this, as the

only education on these meds occurs during the ACLS lectures and AHA says it

should not be a 'regular' part of the algo, since you should start with

pacing...

Atropine in 3rd degree block is relatively indicated. If the patient has a

'trifasicular block' that is new for example or AV node dysfunction, it is

possible that the atropine will enhance the AV nodal conduction and/or a bypass

tract that will get sinus pacing past the block.

If needed, I will search for a reference for this point, don't have it at the

tip of my fingers.

Regards

Nick

Re: Paramedic KSAs (Knowledge, Skills, Abilities)

Mr. Grady wants to know:

Why is atropine not likely to help in a bradycardic 3 rd degree block with a

ventricular escape rhythm? Not astounding questions but, in my mind,

important for me to know.

[Guest guest]

What is the difference between a trifasicular block and third degree AV

block?

BEB

Re: Paramedic KSAs (Knowledge, Skills, Abilities)

Just a side note Gene...not sure if this is where you were going with your

thought... but if the students cannot answer it in this frame, then they

just 'don't know'. I find that most people who take ACLS do not know this,

as the only education on these meds occurs during the ACLS lectures and AHA

says it should not be a 'regular' part of the algo, since you should start

with pacing...

Atropine in 3rd degree block is relatively indicated. If the patient has a

'trifasicular block' that is new for example or AV node dysfunction, it is

possible that the atropine will enhance the AV nodal conduction and/or a

bypass tract that will get sinus pacing past the block.

If needed, I will search for a reference for this point, don't have it at

the tip of my fingers.

Regards

Nick

Re: Paramedic KSAs (Knowledge, Skills, Abilities)

Mr. Grady wants to know:

Why is atropine not likely to help in a bradycardic 3 rd degree block with

a

ventricular escape rhythm? Not astounding questions but, in my mind,

important for me to know.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/7/2003 12:59:42 AM Central Standard Time,

mreed_911@... writes:

> Define " quality instructor. " Name one body that accredits, nationally,

> paramedic educators, programs or courses. A rhetorical question, but one

> you're free to elaborate on.

>

Nobody accredits instructors nationally. The state certifications are for

having been through a 40 hour adult learning seminar that will qualify the

applicant for instructor status.

I know what a quality instructor is, and so do most of you.

A quality instructor is first of all, honest to a fault. S/he tells it like

it is not matter what. S/he will not lie or bend the truth to get students to

join the program.

A quality instructor will know, backwards, forwards, and sideways, the

materials that he's teaching. That means understanding the pathophysiology of

all

conditions that you'll be teaching, and all the standard treatments, drugs and

what their characteristics are, and critical thinking about situations that

you're likely to be encountered.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/7/2003 12:59:42 AM Central Standard Time,

mreed_911@... writes:

> Define " quality instructor. " Name one body that accredits, nationally,

> paramedic educators, programs or courses. A rhetorical question, but one

> you're free to elaborate on.

>

A quality instructor will be able to explain difficult concepts in language

that anybody can understand. A quality instructor will be able to care for a

patient while obtaining information through a number of sources. The quality

instructor will be an example for one who is the model of the best paramedic.

[Guest guest]

Nick,

I understand exactly what you're saying. I am lucky this week to have just

returned from an ACLS class from Heaven. Small specialty hospital in West

Texas. Folks who are being MADE to take the course, and hostile.

Well, we tell them right up front that our course is going to be FUN, it's

going to be relaxed and laid back, and that they're going to learn at least ONE

thing that can take back with them to their everyday lives.

We have experienced extraordinarily positive responses to these approaches.

They don't have the skills and experience, but we give it to them, allow them

to play with it in a simulation until they feel comfortable with it, and so

on. It works.

My group does practically NO lecture in an ACLS course.

GG