Re: Paramedic course Via. Distance Learning

[Guest guest]

I'd like to agree with Phil's guidance. I'll add another thought, as well....

How would you like your reports and run forms, full of spelling and

grammatical errors, to be shown to a jury of twelve? While I realize that some

of the

most competent medics may not have the best grasp on the English language, a

jury may see a sloppy run form and infer sloppy patient care.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD

[Guest guest]

Re hours in the Paramedic course.

When I was at Tyler Junior College our certificate paramedic course (not the

degree plan) was 1270 hours, including clinicals and interships. That was

teaching the old curriculum.

When we implemented the new curriculum we came up with a little more than

twice that number of hours, including clinicals and internships.

Students squawled like pigs stuck under a gate. " It takes too long. You're

teaching to much. We don't need to know all that stuff. " Fire Chiefs said,

" They don't need to know all that stuff you're teaching. Your course takes

too long. " So they wouldn't send their people to our courses any more.

The short courses lapped them up.

It is impossible to teach the national standard curriculum in a 600 hour

course. It is barely possible in a 1270 hour course, since we were essentially

teaching the NSC before it was adopted. We could have done it, but nobody

wanted it.

So, as Pogo said, " We have seen the enemy and he is us. "

GG

[Guest guest]

Define " smart man. "

Paramedic course Via. Distance Learning

I am taking a Paramedic course that is being taught over a satilite

TV. I receive a 3 hr lecture 2 times a week with 2 hrs skills

practice a week. My coordinator is a very very smart man, but since

he's not an LP he can't lecture us because of some new rule passed. I

would like some feedback and opinions on this issue.

[Guest guest]

" Smart Man " if my instructor, he has been an EMT-P for 15yrs and is

very smart. TSTC won't allow him to lecture until he is a LP becuase

of a new rule passed by the orginazation that accredits them. He will

not have is Lic. until this jan. but this really sucks for me becasue

EMS is too hands on to be taught over a TV...trying to learn EKG

strips over a TV is rediculous.

> Define " smart man. "

>

> Paramedic course Via. Distance Learning

>

> I am taking a Paramedic course that is being taught over a satilite

> TV. I receive a 3 hr lecture 2 times a week with 2 hrs skills

> practice a week. My coordinator is a very very smart man, but since

> he's not an LP he can't lecture us because of some new rule passed.

I

> would like some feedback and opinions on this issue.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I was recently in North Carolina (the home of NASCAR and moonshine) and

attended a meeting of EMS educators and learned that they are much more

progressive than their Neanderthal NASCAR image would suggest:

1. Starting January 1, 2004, all EMS students (whether in college credit or

community-based EMS programs) must prove competency in communications and

math. That is, in order to be an EMS provider, you must be able to perform

basic math and communications skills at a high-school graduate level.

Students must pass a pre-college algebra exam and a communications skill

test offered by their college system before beginning EMS education. As a

former EMS educator and now author< I know that EMTs and visual learners and

many EMTs have problems with math skills. In fact, the chapter on drug

dosage calculations have doomed more than a few paramedic students to

failure. Likewise, somewhere in my files I have a real patient report where

there are 27 words misspelled (including 2 that don't even have vowels in

them [for those of you who are NASCAR fans, vowels are the letters A,E,I,O,U

and occasionally Y and every word should have at least one of these]).

2. To teach anatomy and physiology you must have a degree (bachelors I

think). A & P is mandatory at a near college-level for all advanced EMS

providers there. All EMS instructors must have at least an Associates

degree. Providing a young EMT or paramedic student the wrong information

early in their career can be potentially devastating.

The argument is similar to this. For EMS to evolve as a profession, EMS

educators must be " educated. " There is something to be said for the school

of hard-won experience, but there is a lot more to be said for formal

education.

Thus,

Experience without education leads to a trade.

Experience and education leads to a profession.

Wisdom comes from education, experience, and ethical behavior.

You choose what you want Texas EMS to be....

[Guest guest]

I agree with you . We as EMS professions/wanna be professionals

need to start showing it in what is taught at a Basic level as well as

the Paramedic level. I for one would be happy to see the hours of the

paramedic classes extended. 700 hours, or around that, for a paramedic

just doesn't see that much to me; that's a little under a month (29.16

days) and often taught in little under a month.

I don't see why we need to rush the paramedic students into the field

and start riding out on the trucks anyway. There will be plenty of

sick people, careless drivers, and endless acts of stupidity as long as

there is man kind, so just slow down the teaching process and increase

the number of required hours as well as the college credit.

I'm sure there's something more that that can be done to extend it to

1000 or even more. Having college math, college English, and college

government as well as additional college classes/courses required are a

good step in the right direction and this should be implemented here in

Texas as well. People aren't going to get better at math, English, or

any other subject unless they are really motivated to be a paramedic

and are required to learn it. We recognize the majority of people

aren't good a math so how do we fix that? I think we would increase

the time spent on math until people understand it.

What kind of schooling is there for firefighters and police officers?

I'm sure in the higher levels of these, there are required college

hours needed. Being a paramedic is as high as you can go right now for

the pre-hospital environment so why would we (collectively in EMS) want

to try and rush paramedics into it?

I would choose Texas EMS to be professional, union free, and the best

it could be!

....but what do I know.

On Monday, 3 Nov, 2003, at 10:30 US/Central, Bledsoe (Notebook)

composed:

> I was recently in North Carolina (the home of NASCAR and moonshine) and

> attended a meeting of EMS educators and learned that they are much more

> progressive than their Neanderthal NASCAR image would suggest:

>

> 1. Starting January 1, 2004, all EMS students (whether in college

> credit or

> community-based EMS programs) must prove competency in communications

> and

> math. That is, in order to be an EMS provider, you must be able to

> perform

> basic math and communications skills at a high-school graduate level.

> Students must pass a pre-college algebra exam and a communications

> skill

> test offered by their college system before beginning EMS education.

> As a

> former EMS educator and now author< I know that EMTs and visual

> learners and

> many EMTs have problems with math skills. In fact, the chapter on drug

> dosage calculations have doomed more than a few paramedic students to

> failure. Likewise, somewhere in my files I have a real patient report

> where

> there are 27 words misspelled (including 2 that don't even have vowels

> in

> them [for those of you who are NASCAR fans, vowels are the letters

> A,E,I,O,U

> and occasionally Y and every word should have at least one of these]).

>

> 2. To teach anatomy and physiology you must have a degree (bachelors I

> think). A & P is mandatory at a near college-level for all advanced EMS

> providers there. All EMS instructors must have at least an Associates

> degree. Providing a young EMT or paramedic student the wrong

> information

> early in their career can be potentially devastating.

>

> The argument is similar to this. For EMS to evolve as a profession, EMS

> educators must be " educated. " There is something to be said for the

> school

> of hard-won experience, but there is a lot more to be said for formal

> education.

>

> Thus,

>

> Experience without education leads to a trade.

> Experience and education leads to a profession.

> Wisdom comes from education, experience, and ethical behavior.

>

> You choose what you want Texas EMS to be....

>

[Guest guest]

I'm gonna have to disagree with you...experiance is something

invaluble and irevokeable. You can't buy it, and you can't learn

it... it is what it is... experiance. I have never had a experiance

that my teacher was not able to explain fully and in depth. Rather he

be explaning pathophysiology, or how to hang a dopamine drip...being

a LP vs. an EMT-P is not different...if you know it, you know it.---

In , " Bledsoe \(Notebook\) "

<bbledsoe@e...> wrote:

> I was recently in North Carolina (the home of NASCAR and moonshine)

and

> attended a meeting of EMS educators and learned that they are much

more

> progressive than their Neanderthal NASCAR image would suggest:

>

> 1. Starting January 1, 2004, all EMS students (whether in college

credit or

> community-based EMS programs) must prove competency in

communications and

> math. That is, in order to be an EMS provider, you must be able to

perform

> basic math and communications skills at a high-school graduate

level.

> Students must pass a pre-college algebra exam and a communications

skill

> test offered by their college system before beginning EMS

education. As a

> former EMS educator and now author< I know that EMTs and visual

learners and

> many EMTs have problems with math skills. In fact, the chapter on

drug

> dosage calculations have doomed more than a few paramedic students

to

> failure. Likewise, somewhere in my files I have a real patient

report where

> there are 27 words misspelled (including 2 that don't even have

vowels in

> them [for those of you who are NASCAR fans, vowels are the letters

A,E,I,O,U

> and occasionally Y and every word should have at least one of

these]).

>

> 2. To teach anatomy and physiology you must have a degree

(bachelors I

> think). A & P is mandatory at a near college-level for all advanced

EMS

> providers there. All EMS instructors must have at least an

Associates

> degree. Providing a young EMT or paramedic student the wrong

information

> early in their career can be potentially devastating.

>

> The argument is similar to this. For EMS to evolve as a profession,

EMS

> educators must be " educated. " There is something to be said for the

school

> of hard-won experience, but there is a lot more to be said for

formal

> education.

>

> Thus,

>

> Experience without education leads to a trade.

> Experience and education leads to a profession.

> Wisdom comes from education, experience, and ethical behavior.

>

> You choose what you want Texas EMS to be....

[Guest guest]

I might of misunderstood your statment but i have to say... that I've

never heard of a paramedic course being taught in a month. This is my

4th and final semester of school. I have about 500-600 clinical hours

left to do as well in the ER, OR, OB, Lab, Cath Lab, Pediatrics,

Respritory, and ICU/CCU. My course is very thurough and in depth,

except for the difficulties aquired in this 4th and final semester.---

In , " Rev. Farrell " <cafr@a...> wrote:

> I agree with you . We as EMS professions/wanna be

professionals

> need to start showing it in what is taught at a Basic level as well

as

> the Paramedic level. I for one would be happy to see the hours of

the

> paramedic classes extended. 700 hours, or around that, for a

paramedic

> just doesn't see that much to me; that's a little under a month

(29.16

> days) and often taught in little under a month.

> I don't see why we need to rush the paramedic students into the

field

> and start riding out on the trucks anyway. There will be plenty of

> sick people, careless drivers, and endless acts of stupidity as

long as

> there is man kind, so just slow down the teaching process and

increase

> the number of required hours as well as the college credit.

> I'm sure there's something more that that can be done to extend it

to

> 1000 or even more. Having college math, college English, and

college

> government as well as additional college classes/courses required

are a

> good step in the right direction and this should be implemented

here in

> Texas as well. People aren't going to get better at math, English,

or

> any other subject unless they are really motivated to be a

paramedic

> and are required to learn it. We recognize the majority of people

> aren't good a math so how do we fix that? I think we would

increase

> the time spent on math until people understand it.

>

> What kind of schooling is there for firefighters and police

officers?

> I'm sure in the higher levels of these, there are required college

> hours needed. Being a paramedic is as high as you can go right now

for

> the pre-hospital environment so why would we (collectively in EMS)

want

> to try and rush paramedics into it?

>

> I would choose Texas EMS to be professional, union free, and the

best

> it could be!

>

> ...but what do I know.

>

> On Monday, 3 Nov, 2003, at 10:30 US/Central, Bledsoe

(Notebook)

> composed:

>

> > I was recently in North Carolina (the home of NASCAR and

moonshine) and

> > attended a meeting of EMS educators and learned that they are

much more

> > progressive than their Neanderthal NASCAR image would suggest:

> >

> > 1. Starting January 1, 2004, all EMS students (whether in college

> > credit or

> > community-based EMS programs) must prove competency in

communications

> > and

> > math. That is, in order to be an EMS provider, you must be able

to

> > perform

> > basic math and communications skills at a high-school graduate

level.

> > Students must pass a pre-college algebra exam and a

communications

> > skill

> > test offered by their college system before beginning EMS

education.

> > As a

> > former EMS educator and now author< I know that EMTs and visual

> > learners and

> > many EMTs have problems with math skills. In fact, the chapter on

drug

> > dosage calculations have doomed more than a few paramedic

students to

> > failure. Likewise, somewhere in my files I have a real patient

report

> > where

> > there are 27 words misspelled (including 2 that don't even have

vowels

> > in

> > them [for those of you who are NASCAR fans, vowels are the

letters

> > A,E,I,O,U

> > and occasionally Y and every word should have at least one of

these]).

> >

> > 2. To teach anatomy and physiology you must have a degree

(bachelors I

> > think). A & P is mandatory at a near college-level for all advanced

EMS

> > providers there. All EMS instructors must have at least an

Associates

> > degree. Providing a young EMT or paramedic student the wrong

> > information

> > early in their career can be potentially devastating.

> >

> > The argument is similar to this. For EMS to evolve as a

profession, EMS

> > educators must be " educated. " There is something to be said for

the

> > school

> > of hard-won experience, but there is a lot more to be said for

formal

> > education.

> >

> > Thus,

> >

> > Experience without education leads to a trade.

> > Experience and education leads to a profession.

> > Wisdom comes from education, experience, and ethical behavior.

> >

> > You choose what you want Texas EMS to be....

> >

[Guest guest]

I stand corrected. Maybe it was an intermediate class.

On Monday, Nov 3, 2003, at 11:32 US/Central, coolclay84 wrote:

> I might of misunderstood your statment but i have to say... that I've

> never heard of a paramedic course being taught in a month. This is my

> 4th and final semester of school. I have about 500-600 clinical hours

> left to do as well in the ER, OR, OB, Lab, Cath Lab, Pediatrics,

> Respritory, and ICU/CCU. My course is very thurough and in depth,

> except for the difficulties aquired in this 4th and final semester.---

[Guest guest]

Que será sera. What will be, will be.

Bledsoe, DO, FACEP

Midlothian, TX

[http://www.bryanbledsoe.com]

Re: Paramedic course Via. Distance Learning

I'm gonna have to disagree with you...experiance is something

invaluble and irevokeable. You can't buy it, and you can't learn

it... it is what it is... experiance. I have never had a experiance

that my teacher was not able to explain fully and in depth. Rather he

be explaning pathophysiology, or how to hang a dopamine drip...being

a LP vs. an EMT-P is not different...if you know it, you know it.---

In , " Bledsoe \(Notebook\) "

<bbledsoe@e...> wrote:

> I was recently in North Carolina (the home of NASCAR and moonshine)

and

> attended a meeting of EMS educators and learned that they are much

more

> progressive than their Neanderthal NASCAR image would suggest:

>

> 1. Starting January 1, 2004, all EMS students (whether in college

credit or

> community-based EMS programs) must prove competency in

communications and

> math. That is, in order to be an EMS provider, you must be able to

perform

> basic math and communications skills at a high-school graduate

level.

> Students must pass a pre-college algebra exam and a communications

skill

> test offered by their college system before beginning EMS

education. As a

> former EMS educator and now author< I know that EMTs and visual

learners and

> many EMTs have problems with math skills. In fact, the chapter on

drug

> dosage calculations have doomed more than a few paramedic students

to

> failure. Likewise, somewhere in my files I have a real patient

report where

> there are 27 words misspelled (including 2 that don't even have

vowels in

> them [for those of you who are NASCAR fans, vowels are the letters

A,E,I,O,U

> and occasionally Y and every word should have at least one of

these]).

>

> 2. To teach anatomy and physiology you must have a degree

(bachelors I

> think). A & P is mandatory at a near college-level for all advanced

EMS

> providers there. All EMS instructors must have at least an

Associates

> degree. Providing a young EMT or paramedic student the wrong

information

> early in their career can be potentially devastating.

>

> The argument is similar to this. For EMS to evolve as a profession,

EMS

> educators must be " educated. " There is something to be said for the

school

> of hard-won experience, but there is a lot more to be said for

formal

> education.

>

> Thus,

>

> Experience without education leads to a trade.

> Experience and education leads to a profession.

> Wisdom comes from education, experience, and ethical behavior.

>

> You choose what you want Texas EMS to be....

[Guest guest]

I am a certified paramedic and my course was 1420 hours and it did not cover

12 lead or rsi procedures and a lot of things we pick up today at card

courses so I fell 700 hours is just a weeeeee bit to fast. And I don't teach

so I am not just trying to add students or cost to the program to benefit

instructors of classes or coordinators, if the knowledge requirements are

not meet and the clinical and ride along times are not accomplished then

quality paramedics are not being turned out.

Re: Paramedic course Via. Distance Learning

> Re hours in the Paramedic course.

>

> When I was at Tyler Junior College our certificate paramedic course (not

the

> degree plan) was 1270 hours, including clinicals and interships. That was

> teaching the old curriculum.

>

> When we implemented the new curriculum we came up with a little more than

> twice that number of hours, including clinicals and internships.

>

> Students squawled like pigs stuck under a gate. " It takes too long.

You're

> teaching to much. We don't need to know all that stuff. " Fire Chiefs

said,

> " They don't need to know all that stuff you're teaching. Your course

takes

> too long. " So they wouldn't send their people to our courses any more.

>

> The short courses lapped them up.

>

> It is impossible to teach the national standard curriculum in a 600 hour

> course. It is barely possible in a 1270 hour course, since we were

essentially

> teaching the NSC before it was adopted. We could have done it, but nobody

> wanted it.

>

> So, as Pogo said, " We have seen the enemy and he is us. "

>

> GG

>

>

>