Re: Is it the sirens or the insulation?

[Guest guest]

Qs pull from 75-90 amps. The electronic versions pull about 6 amps according

to their stats.

Many folks are returning to the Q type, either mechanical or electronic. On

a Frazier with a generator there's usually no problem. Otherwise they can be

very hard on the electrical system. When I'd fire up the one on the Buick the

funeral home had, the lights would dim.

The electronic versions seem to be the answer: low amperage and great sound.

Why are they not being used more?

Could failure to use available equipment as a warning device contribute to an

accident?

Mr. Grady wants to know.

GG

[Guest guest]

Mr. Grady says:

Combination of both. Cars now advertise how quiet they are inside. Add stereo

to that and they can be very hard to hear a siren in.

The electronic sirens today are not as loud as the old mechanical. If you don't

believe me check out the old Federal Q2. It's decibel level is not that much

better than some of the electronic sirens, but the mix of frequencies it

produces is more " hearable. "

That's why Whelen and Federal have now created electronic versions that mimic

the Q2.

The frequencies of those sirens are lower, and I have read studies that show

that lower frequencies are more easily heard in certain situations. If I

remember correctly, high frequences carry better straight ahead but lower

frequencies are better dispursed and better for intersections.

(Please don't ask me for the cites. Look em up on Google like I did).

I recall one study that showed that at 60 miles an hour the siren isn't heard

until the vehicle using the siren is approximately 3 feet from the other one.

So your siren is virtually worthless so far as warning other traffic.

The technology has existed for years to place a warning device in cars that will

let you know when an emergency vehicle is near. One of the radar detectors has

it available.

Why haven't the car manufacturers offered it? Should it be mandatory?

Mr. Grady

[Guest guest]

Q2s are the way to go for blasting sound. They also can cause a

manufacturer's engineer (i.e. the guy who has to make all the promises of

the sales rep come true) to break out in a cold sweat when trying to figure

out the electrical load these bad boys pull. But for breaking traffic and

vibrating downtown windows, Q2s will do the trick.

As an example, in the summer of 1980 we had a Co. SO officer escorting

us around the loop in Tyler (our electronic siren broke enroute and it was

easier than giving directions to the then " new " health science center over

the radio). Traffic wouldn't move for the deputy's siren so we fired up the

Q2 mounted on top of the suburban and traffic parted like Moses and the Red

Sea. Wails, yelps, hi-los and phasers are cool, but the Q2 will move a crowd

like nothing else.

Barry

Re: Is it the sirens or the insulation?

Mr. Grady says:

Combination of both. Cars now advertise how quiet they are inside. Add

stereo to that and they can be very hard to hear a siren in.

The electronic sirens today are not as loud as the old mechanical. If you

don't believe me check out the old Federal Q2. It's decibel level is not

that much better than some of the electronic sirens, but the mix of

frequencies it produces is more " hearable. "

That's why Whelen and Federal have now created electronic versions that

mimic the Q2.

The frequencies of those sirens are lower, and I have read studies that show

that lower frequencies are more easily heard in certain situations. If I

remember correctly, high frequences carry better straight ahead but lower

frequencies are better dispursed and better for intersections.

(Please don't ask me for the cites. Look em up on Google like I did).

I recall one study that showed that at 60 miles an hour the siren isn't

heard until the vehicle using the siren is approximately 3 feet from the

other one. So your siren is virtually worthless so far as warning other

traffic.

The technology has existed for years to place a warning device in cars that

will let you know when an emergency vehicle is near. One of the radar

detectors has it available.

Why haven't the car manufacturers offered it? Should it be mandatory?

Mr. Grady

[Guest guest]

Q2m verses Q2e. As an old user of Q2's I suggest you try the electronic

version as the old Q was good but it ate alternators and batteries often,

but yes they did move cars until you got behind the little old lady from

Pasadena who just stood on her brakes and placed both hands over her ears.

Now you are trapped behind a none moving car and people passing in the other

lane in a steady stream that will not yield and let out. Solution is turn

the siren off and wait for her to decide to move on her on.

Re: Is it the sirens or the insulation?

>

>

> Mr. Grady says:

>

> Combination of both. Cars now advertise how quiet they are inside. Add

> stereo to that and they can be very hard to hear a siren in.

>

> The electronic sirens today are not as loud as the old mechanical. If you

> don't believe me check out the old Federal Q2. It's decibel level is not

> that much better than some of the electronic sirens, but the mix of

> frequencies it produces is more " hearable. "

>

> That's why Whelen and Federal have now created electronic versions that

> mimic the Q2.

>

> The frequencies of those sirens are lower, and I have read studies that

show

> that lower frequencies are more easily heard in certain situations. If I

> remember correctly, high frequences carry better straight ahead but lower

> frequencies are better dispursed and better for intersections.

>

> (Please don't ask me for the cites. Look em up on Google like I did).

>

> I recall one study that showed that at 60 miles an hour the siren isn't

> heard until the vehicle using the siren is approximately 3 feet from the

> other one. So your siren is virtually worthless so far as warning other

> traffic.

>

> The technology has existed for years to place a warning device in cars

that

> will let you know when an emergency vehicle is near. One of the radar

> detectors has it available.

>

> Why haven't the car manufacturers offered it? Should it be mandatory?

>

> Mr. Grady

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think the EMS trucks and fire " trucks " should have whatever trains

have by the way of a horn. I hear those loud and clear for a great

long distance. No problem clearing an intersection nor getting cars to

move just because of the sound.

On Monday, 3 Nov, 2003, at 11:20 US/Central, people wrote words:

[Guest guest]

Huh? What did you say? You'll have to speak up a little louder.

Also, the Little Old Ladies stood on their brakes with the electronic sirens

as well. I think that's more due to suprise and confusion than it is any

particular siren.

However, an older fireman I used to run with made it a habit to turn off the

sirens when approaching a packed intersection, lest anyone turn into traffic

trying to make room for the fire truck. A few extra minutes response time

wasn't worth getting anyone (us or civilians) hurt or killed while trying to

get there.

Barry

Re: Is it the sirens or the insulation?

Not to mention, how many other old timers who were around the fedq's for any

length of time, have trouble hearing?

Mike " What did you say? " Hatfield

Re: Is it the sirens or the insulation?

> >

> >

> > Mr. Grady says:

> >

> > Combination of both. Cars now advertise how quiet they are inside. Add

> > stereo to that and they can be very hard to hear a siren in.

> >

> > The electronic sirens today are not as loud as the old mechanical. If

you

> > don't believe me check out the old Federal Q2. It's decibel level is

not

> > that much better than some of the electronic sirens, but the mix of

> > frequencies it produces is more " hearable. "

> >

> > That's why Whelen and Federal have now created electronic versions that

> > mimic the Q2.

> >

> > The frequencies of those sirens are lower, and I have read studies that

> show

> > that lower frequencies are more easily heard in certain situations. If

I

> > remember correctly, high frequences carry better straight ahead but

lower

> > frequencies are better dispursed and better for intersections.

> >

> > (Please don't ask me for the cites. Look em up on Google like I did).

> >

> > I recall one study that showed that at 60 miles an hour the siren isn't

> > heard until the vehicle using the siren is approximately 3 feet from the

> > other one. So your siren is virtually worthless so far as warning other

> > traffic.

> >

> > The technology has existed for years to place a warning device in cars

> that

> > will let you know when an emergency vehicle is near. One of the radar

> > detectors has it available.

> >

> > Why haven't the car manufacturers offered it? Should it be mandatory?

> >

> > Mr. Grady

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Sorry I cant hear you Barry and amen to cutting the siren and just stopping

at blind intersections such as over passes on the service roads with bumper

to bumper traffic and you are 3 or more cars back if you don't want to hurt

some one then shut it down. Thank You

Re: Is it the sirens or the insulation?

> > >

> > >

> > > Mr. Grady says:

> > >

> > > Combination of both. Cars now advertise how quiet they are inside.

Add

> > > stereo to that and they can be very hard to hear a siren in.

> > >

> > > The electronic sirens today are not as loud as the old mechanical. If

> you

> > > don't believe me check out the old Federal Q2. It's decibel level is

> not

> > > that much better than some of the electronic sirens, but the mix of

> > > frequencies it produces is more " hearable. "

> > >

> > > That's why Whelen and Federal have now created electronic versions

that

> > > mimic the Q2.

> > >

> > > The frequencies of those sirens are lower, and I have read studies

that

> > show

> > > that lower frequencies are more easily heard in certain situations.

If

> I

> > > remember correctly, high frequences carry better straight ahead but

> lower

> > > frequencies are better dispursed and better for intersections.

> > >

> > > (Please don't ask me for the cites. Look em up on Google like I did).

> > >

> > > I recall one study that showed that at 60 miles an hour the siren

isn't

> > > heard until the vehicle using the siren is approximately 3 feet from

the

> > > other one. So your siren is virtually worthless so far as warning

other

> > > traffic.

> > >

> > > The technology has existed for years to place a warning device in cars

> > that

> > > will let you know when an emergency vehicle is near. One of the radar

> > > detectors has it available.

> > >

> > > Why haven't the car manufacturers offered it? Should it be mandatory?

> > >

> > > Mr. Grady

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Rev. Farrell wrote:

> I think the EMS trucks and fire " trucks " should have whatever trains

> have by the way of a horn.

So did (RIP). He didn't just think about it. He made it

happen. I miss him already.

Rob

[Guest guest]

I remember the argument that lime green fire trucks could not be seen in the

Texas piney woods. Oh the battles over color back then.

Re: Is it the sirens or the insulation?

> To call an " electronic Q " a " Q " is an insult to my childhood and don't

even

> mention yellow fire trucks.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

> (Home Office)

> (Fire Field Office)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization

> that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended

only for it's

> stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public

> domain by the original author.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not to mention, how many other old timers who were around the fedq's for any

length of time, have trouble hearing?

Mike " What did you say? " Hatfield

Re: Is it the sirens or the insulation?

> >

> >

> > Mr. Grady says:

> >

> > Combination of both. Cars now advertise how quiet they are inside. Add

> > stereo to that and they can be very hard to hear a siren in.

> >

> > The electronic sirens today are not as loud as the old mechanical. If

you

> > don't believe me check out the old Federal Q2. It's decibel level is

not

> > that much better than some of the electronic sirens, but the mix of

> > frequencies it produces is more " hearable. "

> >

> > That's why Whelen and Federal have now created electronic versions that

> > mimic the Q2.

> >

> > The frequencies of those sirens are lower, and I have read studies that

> show

> > that lower frequencies are more easily heard in certain situations. If

I

> > remember correctly, high frequences carry better straight ahead but

lower

> > frequencies are better dispursed and better for intersections.

> >

> > (Please don't ask me for the cites. Look em up on Google like I did).

> >

> > I recall one study that showed that at 60 miles an hour the siren isn't

> > heard until the vehicle using the siren is approximately 3 feet from the

> > other one. So your siren is virtually worthless so far as warning other

> > traffic.

> >

> > The technology has existed for years to place a warning device in cars

> that

> > will let you know when an emergency vehicle is near. One of the radar

> > detectors has it available.

> >

> > Why haven't the car manufacturers offered it? Should it be mandatory?

> >

> > Mr. Grady

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> The difference? You can FEEL an air horn - there's a physical

> characteristic to it. Vibration transmits through solid objects MUCH

> better that frequencies at the audible level...

>

> Mike

>

Yep, and a marked increase in the 'pucker factor'

" Some days you're the dog, and some days you're the hydrant, pretty easy to

figure out which is which. "

Hatfield EMT-P