Re: illness or on purpose?

[Guest guest]

Ashana,

You make it all make so much sense when it seems so jumbled up. You should

write a book. I mean that in all sincerity. You truly have them figured

out!

In a message dated 2/21/2010 4:13:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

ashanamax@... writes:

,

I honestly think that some of what you see in bpd is an illness and some

what you see is an attempt to cope with it that becomes rigid, inflexible,

and permanent despite the obvious destructiveness of those ways of coping.

I think the impulsivity, emotional volatility, and unstable sense of the

self and of others is the illness. A tendency to become very upset and to

take longer to return to baseline is part of the illness.

The black and white thinking and splitting are neither the illness nor a

way to cope with it, but a normal reaction to crisis that becomes entrenched

and over-utilized because the bpd is always in crisis. That particular

neurological response is so well-worn it is essentially a reflex.

I think the rage, projection, blaming, manipulation, and failure to take

responsibility for oneself or one's decisions is learned and is an attempt

to cope with the illness and to make sense of the world that the bpd

experiences-I think the rage, projection, blaming, manipulation, and failure to

take responsibility for oneself or one's decisions is learned and is an

attempt to cope with the illness and to m The bpd does at times choose other

ways of coping when it seems like they will work better. I think the bpd

tends to choose very destructive mechanisms because they appear (at least to

the bpd) to work so very well and the consequences of not having a successful

set of coping mechanisms seems so very high. I also think the bpd can

often become extraordinarily attached to those methods since they do not know

who they really are--their ways of coping can become the only identity that

seems stable to them. And most of us experience the loss of our

identities as one of the most fearful losses of all.

Best,

Ashana

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

_http://in.yahoo.http_ (http://in.yahoo.com/)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

I agree with everything you say here.

It makes me feel sad for my mother rather than anger, though...and I really

would rather be angry at her.

Is BPD truly an illness that can't be cured and can't be treated? That's

kind of the jist of what I see about it online. It makes me sad for my mother

that she hurt so deeply and never got any kind of help and died so sad.

In a message dated 2/21/2010 5:14:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

kk1raven@... writes:

,

I don't think you can separate the ability to control what they

do from the mental illness. In my opinion, their method of

deciding what is appropriate behavior is broken. I think they

are capable of controlling themselves, but what they consider

being under control is vastly different from the way we control

ourselves. I don't think my nada is ever unable to control

herself. She just makes bad decisions about how to behave

because her mind isn't capable of feeling things in the same way

we do or of following the same thought patterns as the rest of

us. Because she feels emotions that are not appropriate, her

reactions to what she feels are not appropriate. If you feel

like you're being attacked, the way you respond is very

different from how you'd respond to a neutral situation. Our

nadas often feel like they're being attacked in situations that

we wouldn't see as attacks. Even a lack of attention feels like

an attack to many of them.

I don't blame you for feeling cheated. It isn't fair to have a

nada instead of a proper mother. Unfortunately life isn't fair.

:-(

At 03:49 PM 02/21/2010 _Hummingbird1298@Humming_

(mailto:Hummingbird1298@...) wrote:

>....I have a very hard time believing my (or maybe it's because

>I don't

>want to believe it) that my mother did what she did on purpose.

>I truly feel

>that BPD is an illness. I know some here have said that their

>BPD parents

>could control their emotions and their outbursts in public and

>with other

>family members but let it fly out of control in private,

>behind closed doors.

>This was definitely my mother too. She would flip out during

>thunderstorms,

>threatening suicide and screaming and crying, but let someone

>be visiting

>or that we were out somewhere and she didn't act that way in

>the least

>little bit. As a child, it was very confusing.

>

>But I don't know how much she could control and I never will

>since she is

>dead now. I just know that I always felt like the mother -- the

>one who was

>emotionally there for her. And when any situation arose where a

>normal

>mother would 'be there' for her child, it would feel awkward

>and weird for her

>to give me any advice or in any way try to help me.

>Bleh.

>I dunno.

>Then when she was dying, in those last months, she would whine

>to me on the

> phone and beg me to tell her she was a good mother in that

> way that she

>could appear to be so pathetic and pitiful. Ugh. Maybe I

>should have told her

>she was...she was dying. But I couldn't make myself do it. I

>had already

>lost SO much because of her.

>I wish I had a mother who was normal. I feel cheated out of

>that. It

>doesn't feel fair.

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

,

I honestly think that some of what you see in bpd is an illness and some what

you see is an attempt to cope with it that becomes rigid, inflexible, and

permanent despite the obvious destructiveness of those ways of coping.

I think the impulsivity, emotional volatility, and unstable sense of the self

and of others is the illness. A tendency to become very upset and to take

longer to return to baseline is part of the illness.

The black and white thinking and splitting are neither the illness nor a way to

cope with it, but a normal reaction to crisis that becomes entrenched and

over-utilized because the bpd is always in crisis. That particular neurological

response is so well-worn it is essentially a reflex.

I think the rage, projection, blaming, manipulation, and failure to take

responsibility for oneself or one's decisions is learned and is an attempt to

cope with the illness and to make sense of the world that the bpd

experiences--given that they experience everything as being unstable and their

own emotions and thoughts as being overwhelming and out of control and therefore

themselves as being helpless. The bpd does at times choose other ways of coping

when it seems like they will work better. I think the bpd tends to choose very

destructive mechanisms because they appear (at least to the bpd) to work so very

well and the consequences of not having a successful set of coping mechanisms

seems so very high. I also think the bpd can often become extraordinarily

attached to those methods since they do not know who they really are--their ways

of coping can become the only identity that seems stable to them. And most of

us experience the loss of our

identities as one of the most fearful losses of all.

Best,

Ashana

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

http://in.yahoo.com/

[Guest guest]

Thanks, .

Ashana

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

http://in.yahoo.com/

[Guest guest]

,

I don't think you can separate the ability to control what they

do from the mental illness. In my opinion, their method of

deciding what is appropriate behavior is broken. I think they

are capable of controlling themselves, but what they consider

being under control is vastly different from the way we control

ourselves. I don't think my nada is ever unable to control

herself. She just makes bad decisions about how to behave

because her mind isn't capable of feeling things in the same way

we do or of following the same thought patterns as the rest of

us. Because she feels emotions that are not appropriate, her

reactions to what she feels are not appropriate. If you feel

like you're being attacked, the way you respond is very

different from how you'd respond to a neutral situation. Our

nadas often feel like they're being attacked in situations that

we wouldn't see as attacks. Even a lack of attention feels like

an attack to many of them.

I don't blame you for feeling cheated. It isn't fair to have a

nada instead of a proper mother. Unfortunately life isn't fair.

:-(

At 03:49 PM 02/21/2010 Hummingbird1298@... wrote:

>....I have a very hard time believing my (or maybe it's because

>I don't

>want to believe it) that my mother did what she did on purpose.

>I truly feel

>that BPD is an illness. I know some here have said that their

>BPD parents

>could control their emotions and their outbursts in public and

>with other

>family members but let it fly out of control in private,

>behind closed doors.

>This was definitely my mother too. She would flip out during

>thunderstorms,

>threatening suicide and screaming and crying, but let someone

>be visiting

>or that we were out somewhere and she didn't act that way in

>the least

>little bit. As a child, it was very confusing.

>

>But I don't know how much she could control and I never will

>since she is

>dead now. I just know that I always felt like the mother -- the

>one who was

>emotionally there for her. And when any situation arose where a

>normal

>mother would 'be there' for her child, it would feel awkward

>and weird for her

>to give me any advice or in any way try to help me.

>Bleh.

>I dunno.

>Then when she was dying, in those last months, she would whine

>to me on the

> phone and beg me to tell her she was a good mother in that

> way that she

>could appear to be so pathetic and pitiful. Ugh. Maybe I

>should have told her

>she was...she was dying. But I couldn't make myself do it. I

>had already

>lost SO much because of her.

>I wish I had a mother who was normal. I feel cheated out of

>that. It

>doesn't feel fair.

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

I feel sad that my nada is the way she is. She didn't choose to

have BPD and she'd probably be a much happier person without it.

Still, after forty-some years of being subjected to her

behavior, I don't really feel much sympathy for her as a person.

Her mechanism for making choices may be broken, but that doesn't

mean she had to do all the nasty and emotionally abusive things

she's done. I tend to get angry for a short time when she does

something particularly obnoxious, but I don't find holding on to

that anger to be a good choice for me.

I don't think BPD can be cured but I do think it can be treated,

especially if it is diagnosed while they're young.

Unfortunately, BPD makes it very hard for people to make the

choice to want treatment and they have to want treatment before

it will help them. That means it might as well be untreatable

for most of them.

At 05:17 PM 02/21/2010 Hummingbird1298@... wrote:

>I agree with everything you say here.

>

>It makes me feel sad for my mother rather than anger,

>though...and I really

> would rather be angry at her.

>

>Is BPD truly an illness that can't be cured and can't be

>treated? That's

>kind of the jist of what I see about it online. It makes me sad

>for my mother

> that she hurt so deeply and never got any kind of help and

> died so sad.

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

Katrina,

Thanks for writing that--I needed to hear it. I find myself thinking: I'd

rather be sad about my nada than angry! It's all too easy for me to forget that

nada has an illness. I constantly think she should be different from what she

is, and why can't she see that and be different?

I think it's really important to have the kind of compassion that you express in

your words below. The challenge, for me, is simultaneously protecting myself.

I really struggle with providing unconditional love to someone who is incapable

of providing it. I'm hopeful that, as I continue to work on myself, I will get

there.

It *is* sad that our nadas have so much suffering that will likely never be

healed in their lifetimes. And I'm sorry you're hurting over it. I really

hope that mental health treatment improves to a point where the odds of a person

with BPD recovering are vastly improved from today. Meanwhile, I guess all we

can do is stop the chain from going forward, to our kids.

-

> >I agree with everything you say here.

> >

> >It makes me feel sad for my mother rather than anger,

> >though...and I really

> > would rather be angry at her.

> >

> >Is BPD truly an illness that can't be cured and can't be

> >treated? That's

> >kind of the jist of what I see about it online. It makes me sad

> >for my mother

> > that she hurt so deeply and never got any kind of help and

> > died so sad.

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

I firmly beleive that it can be treated. But it's a hell of a lot of work. I

think I had it as a young woman. As I read a lot of these stories on here (mine

is different, but the same) I see myself in them as well.

I think that as a teenager and young woman, I was very much like this. I never

had a diagnosis, but I was very troubled. I did a lot of things I am NOT proud

of to keep my husband, and I also tried pushing him away. I believed he was

cheating, I believed that he was using me, I had a lot of odd thoughts. I

couldn't help myself. I believed that he would eventually leave me, that it was

a matter of time, and tried really hard to make him do that.

Some of the things I've read make me beleive that I learned these behaviors from

my mother, but other things I've read, specifically the typical environments

that BPDs come from, make me wonder if I did indeed have it.

Further digging has revealed that my maternal grandmother has it, one aunt and

my mother. On my dads side, his mother had it and he is married to someone with

BPD. So there may be genetic factor.

So, I recognize that the person I was 20 years ago is most definitely NOT the

person I am today, and am frankly amazed that I am even alive, and still

married.

To get where I am now? Therapy. A crap ton of therapy. Lots of reading, a degree

in psychology, and having an awesome healthy relationship with my husband and

his family. They keep me sane. They show me what a real family is and how it

behaves. The therapy I did was cognitive behavioral therapy, which can change

the thought process.

I think it takes a conscious effort though, the need or desire to change.